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View Full Version : Avatar Battle Royale Discussion Thread XXV: The Future (Imperfect) is...Soon



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BRC
2009-08-03, 11:34 PM
Welcome to the 25th ABR Discussion Thread!
Bow before your Crimson Clad Overlord
Because we used to burn through new ABR threads so quickly, we created the Discussion thread. All banter goes here, and all comics and non-canon kills go in the main thread. (see line below)

Avatar Battle Royale: We All Live in A Yellow Citadel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88925) is the current thread. Post artwork there.
Even though it seems to be holding together nicely;
The ABR backup thread (http://z15.invisionfree.com/Remember/index.php?showtopic=161), is used in the event of Giantitp becoming untenable due to server issues or otherwise.
The next link is quite good, although it could have used some more images.
Trailer for the Fat Fish Fury plot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqh4cOewDNg) by Kpenguin
The next one should have had music, but didn't. :(
Trailer for ABR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMSlrT_9Goc) by Omicroncubed

Future Imperfect Trailer (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x203/tomshaer/?action=view&current=ABRFITrailer.flv) by Nameless

The Amazing ABR Wiki (http://abr.wetpaint.com/)
It's free. It works. What else do you want?
The world map of Avbaroy (http://abr.wetpaint.com/page/Avbaroy)
Mad Mask is a good cartographer. Of course, he didn't make up the majority of the countries.
Backstory Comics
Because people always want the focus to be on them.
A Story of Death (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63750) By Nameless (Currently inactive)
A Tale of Two Fangs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106818) By Falgorn (dead)
Endless (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68208) By Omicroncubed (active!)
Forest Fire (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107184) By CrimsonAngel (dead)
Remember (http://www.remembercomic.co.uk/) By Lyinginbedmon (active!)
The Blast Dragons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73393) By Jasondoomsblade (dead)
Well that was unexpected (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68295) By Randomizer (active!)
Search (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77691) By Calamity (dead)
My Name is Q (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71239) By Q (finished)
The Fire Within (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91620) By Firedrake and Chriky (dead)
Dawn of Yesterday (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96629) by Fayt (On Hold)
The Skornbail Incident (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99901) by Shades of Gray (dead)
Planum Commedia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114743) by Mad Mask (active!)
People find that web Active/dead means the status of the comic, not the person.comics are hard work.
Previous ABR main threads
We've been around a longish while now. But got shunted from the Main A+C area. We're Special!
First ABR thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48645)
Second ABR thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50666)
Third ABR thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55646)
Fourth ABR thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59594)
Fifth ABR thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61122)
Sixth ABR thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81279)
Seventh ABR thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84673)
Just saving space here don't you know...
Previous ABR discussion threads (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6302654&postcount=824)
Older discussion threads can viewed here.
I took an old post in the last thread and converted it to hold the links.
Fat Fish Fury (managed by Mechafox, thankee kindly.)
Part 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3439552&postcount=663)
Part 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3444141&postcount=793)
Part 3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3918591&postcount=229)
Part 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4753626&postcount=406)
Part 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5217814&postcount=383)
Last updated: 22/12/2008, with comic 1714.

The Pluperfect Plot (aka: Plot 3) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3803944&postcount=963) (also by Mechafox)
Handsome fellow that he is...
Sorcerer Dude Strikes Back (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3965082&postcount=633) (managed by Szilard)
Pretty sure he has a twin; could be wrong.
Sprite Wars Archive (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4380002&postcount=245) (managed by the_Q)
Resident old guy c(:.
Soon to come: Fat Fish Fury 2: Future Imperfect archive. (probably managed by Mad Mask)
List containing most PCs participating in Future Imperfect (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5530814&postcount=763)
The Organizational Chart of The Resistance (http://www.kinogo.com/victor/resistanceschema2.gif) (Both by Mad Mask, who has far too much time on his hands)
Seriously, he does. He's crazy like that.
BRC's Guide to Joining ABR (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5603132&postcount=1429).
Yarrr! I be changing the white text as well. Note, this is NOT a requirement for making a new thread.
Banners

This one by Shades of Gray:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa279/oliver426/g25520.png


Banners made by Kpenguin:
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/8828/banner1fm4.gif (http://imageshack.us)
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5010/banner2kg9.gif (http://imageshack.us)
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/9932/banner3eh9.gif (http://imageshack.us)
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4593/banner4cn3.gif (http://imageshack.us)
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7482/banner5sx5.gif (http://imageshack.us)
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/1007/banner7el0.gif (http://imageshack.us)
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5938/banner6zk5.gif (http://imageshack.us)
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w118/kpenguin222/Banners/ABR.gif


And one made by Lyinginbedmon:
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2857/abrbannerv40kt6.png


And these three by Mechafox:
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/8715/bannerxo2.png
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/9192/banner2ve0.png
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/651/twaffmz5.jpg


One by Boomwolf:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4950/bannerif5.gif


There was one by Nameless, but he broke it.

A couple by Narrator:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/306/bannerdf3.png
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff15/bayar_m2003/bannerqr2.png


One by Lavidor:
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x84/AmnonLavidor/Banner.png


And five by Threeshades:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/Tobi-Sean/gropebanner.png
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/Tobi-Sean/Plotgoblinbanner.png
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/Tobi-Sean/Fishbanner.png
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/Tobi-Sean/AHKBARHRbanner.png
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/Tobi-Sean/Pulpfictionbanner.png


A couple by Ichneumon (Spanish Text by joshu@fran.com):
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g252/JoshRul/abrbannersq2.png
Avatar Battle Royale VI: We are the plot; Scripting is futile
Here, they cannot die. But they will join the plot!

Avatar Battle Royale VI (Combate Real del Avatar): Nosotros somos el guión; Redactar es inútil
Aquí, ellos no pueden morir. ¡Pero se unirán al guión!
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8712/sdsbbanner7od5.png


One by Szilard:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd233/SzilardG/Banner.png


Two by The Gremlin:
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8348/abrbannervj3.png
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8757/abrbanner2ix5.png


Two Banners made by The_Q:
http://i34.tinypic.com/nzi1xl.png
http://i44.tinypic.com/etwrb7.png (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88925)
Who I almost didn't bold, the egotistical git.

Fishslap! By Fayt:
http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo79/Ikaeru/Bannerfishslap-1.png

memnarch
2009-08-06, 11:57 AM
Ah... new thread. Has a nice smell too.

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-06, 11:58 AM
May want to get rid of the "Re:" in the thread title though...

Mad Mask
2009-08-06, 12:04 PM
Why didn't you change the white text ? :smallfrown:
You kept the same one (except for the first) even if it didn't make sense.
Anyways, I was wondering if there could be Dettas with wheels or tracks in Future Imperfect. Surely they'd be faster and more efficient than standard legged ones, and that would give an additional advantage to the ALF.

BRC
2009-08-06, 12:06 PM
Why didn't you change the white text ? :smallfrown:

Anyways, I was wondering if there could be Dettas with wheels or tracks in Future Imperfect. Surely they'd be faster and more efficient than standard legged ones, and that would give an additional advantage to the ALF.
Sure, why not. They'd probably also be easier for Ven to make, since he doesn't have to worry about keeping them as balanced.

Keveak
2009-08-06, 12:09 PM
We need to get some better threads, they barely hold a week :smalltongue:

SinisterPenguin
2009-08-06, 12:14 PM
Yay, new thread.

...That's all I have to say, really.

Lemming
2009-08-06, 12:25 PM
*INHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAALE!*
Aah... :sigh: :biggrin:

By the way BRC, you haven't answered my question about what is job would be at INSincere. :smalltongue:

BRC
2009-08-06, 12:27 PM
*INHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAALE!*
Aah... :sigh: :biggrin:

By the way BRC, you haven't answered my question about what is job would be at INSincere. :smalltongue:
Columnist. He comes up with conspiracies the normal staff couldn't dream of.

Lemming
2009-08-06, 12:37 PM
Columnist. He comes up with conspiracies the normal staff couldn't dream of.
Could he also be doing some investigative reporting on the side?
Gets straight to the source kinda thing.
He'd get all the information, make the wrong links and end up writing something even the They conspiracy inventors think is crazy.

BRC
2009-08-06, 12:38 PM
Could he also be doing some investigative reporting on the side?
Gets straight to the source kinda thing.
He'd get all the information, make the wrong links and end up writing something even the They conspiracy inventors think is crazy.
Which is why They hired him of course. But yeah, he can do some investigative stuff.

I mean, INSincere is all published anonymously, so if he gets too dangerous he can always be dissapeared.

Mad Mask
2009-08-06, 01:02 PM
How's this Detta ?

Mark IV Detta Tank
http://www.kinogo.com/victor/fi/dettatank.png
The Mark IV Detta Tank is a small vehicle build with a refitted Ground Drone chassis. With armour resistant to small arms fire or shrapnel, and possessing two rifles and two grenades launchers (capable of launching fragmentation or concussion grenades), it is a most efficient anti-personnel weapon. However, it is easily destroyed by rockets, armour piercing rounds or heavy weapons.

BRC
2009-08-06, 01:07 PM
How's this Detta ?

Mark IV Detta Tank
http://www.kinogo.com/victor/fi/dettatank.png
The Mark IV Detta Tank is a small vehicle build with a refitted Ground Drone chassis. With armour resistant to small arms fire or shrapnel, and possessing two rifles and two grenades launchers (capable of launching fragmentation or concussion grenades), it is a most efficient anti-personnel weapon. However, it is easily destroyed by rockets, armour piercing rounds or heavy weapons.
Ooh nice, here's what I worked out.
The Mark III "Microtank", and some standard dettas.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/bloddyredcommie/NewDettas.png

The Microtank is a smaller version of the Detta Tank. Equipped with a heavy cannon that can fire either AP or HE rounds, and a Rapid-fire antipersonel cannon. It's armor is thick, but enough dedicated small-arms fire will drop one.

Also, Standard Dettas. Ven abandoned the idea of designated Soldier-Dettas. Instead merely thickening the armor on standard dettas, and giving the high-caliber firearms. These weapons can be wielded by normal humans as well.

X2
2009-08-06, 03:26 PM
I smell a new thread!

-skimmer-
2009-08-06, 03:35 PM
I smell a new thread!

You smell right then!

Grim ranger
2009-08-06, 03:43 PM
Yay! I finally got to first page! :smallbiggrin:

Fay Graydon
2009-08-06, 03:43 PM
I smell a new thread!

I shmell boozes! *sways and hickups*

Nah I'm just kidding! ^.^

I smellllll.... *thinks* Another 50 pages of no progress XD

Szilard
2009-08-06, 03:48 PM
Yay, new thread. :smallbiggrin:

X2
2009-08-06, 04:06 PM
So when I post something that needs answering everyone is silent as the grave, when I post a useless little new thread acknowledgment everyone rushes to the Quote button?

What?

Szilard
2009-08-06, 04:08 PM
That's how we roll.:smallcool:

Keveak
2009-08-06, 04:10 PM
So when I post something that needs answering everyone is silent as the grave, when I post a useless little new thread acknowledgment everyone rushes to the Quote button?

What?

Maybe it's because when you're up we should be sleeping (It's almost midnight over here) and thus many people don't see your posts.

X2
2009-08-06, 04:10 PM
Muffin-cat...

...makes meh hungreh.

Squark
2009-08-06, 04:50 PM
Am I correct in assuming that all magic in the UNA is tightly regulated? Because it would make James and Talia's life slightly easier (they both use alter self spells to hide the fact they have sovice nanites inside of them. But if people could accidentally cast true sight and see them... Besides, non-regulated magic would make resistance much easier).

BRC
2009-08-06, 04:52 PM
Am I correct in assuming that all magic in the UNA is tightly regulated? Because it would make James and Talia's life slightly easier (they both use alter self spells to hide the fact they have sovice nanites inside of them. But if people could accidentally cast true sight and see them... Besides, non-regulated magic would make resistance much easier).
Considering that every wizard is just a nights rest and a few hours preparation away from being a living weapon, I'd say it would make sense.

Squark
2009-08-06, 04:59 PM
Other FI things- To nip any power-level problems in the bud, here's what I'm thinking for Squark Iota-

Squark was exposed to the same virus as Igon, but in a lesser dose. This, combined with the fact it wasn't prepared to combat a Timelord's more advanced immune system, has allowed him to escape with his sanity intact. Unfortunately, the struggle has blocked off all of his magical and magic-like abilities* (soulmelding, truenaming, shadowcasting, psionics, Tome of Battle stuff), and it has made it cripplingly painful for him to use the force. As such, he has relegated himself to a desk job.


*Because he isn't cured, he's just holding the disease at bay.


EDIT: One last thing- Since James is chief conservator of the peace, is there any specific things I should keep in mind as I design his uniform?

Mad Mask
2009-08-06, 05:07 PM
Well, you should base yourself on Fayte's own peacekeeper (the UNA beret + gray coat), but with a little more ornaments.

But since he's more of a political person than a front-line combatant, a late 19th-early 20th century suit is probably what he's going to wear most of the time.

Keveak
2009-08-06, 05:12 PM
Considering that every wizard is just a nights rest and a few hours preparation away from being a living weapon, I'd say it would make sense.

Makes it so much easier for my characters (even if the resistance is destroyed how are you gonna find Keveak? He works with magic basically nobody knows about and even fever are crazy enough to use :smallamused:) :smallbiggrin:

Fay Graydon
2009-08-06, 05:17 PM
Well, you should base yourself on Fayte's own peacekeeper (the UNA beret + gray coat), but with a little more ornaments.

But since he's more of a political person than a front-line combatant, a late 19th-early 20th century suit is probably what he's going to wear most of the time.

Dont copy me to much though... I want to be SORTA unique... and thats not a Coat... its actually a heavy duty over robe. (the straps are to keep it tight against him)

Squark
2009-08-06, 05:25 PM
Actually, I think I've got an idea of how he'll project his public image, and his uniform will play into that.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc78/TheGreatSquark/Future%20Imperfect/Non-canon/JamesIns.png Chief Conservator of the Peace James Ins is, like all the sovice, one person in public and another in private. To the average person on the street, James is, despite the fact that his adoptive father is the de facto leader of the UNA, a self-made man of the common person. He rose through the ranks quickly, not because of connections as some others might, but through competency and devotion to his men. His devotion is so great that he continues to wear the uniform of a common watchman, although those "close" to him would argue that this is more yet another excuse to annoy politicians. Despite this, James is very public about his commitment to the UNA, because, "It may have too many stuffy politicians for my sake, but its still a world better than anything Avbaroy had before it." Always quick with a joke and willing to move mountains to save even the lowest-ranking men under his command, he is a role model to many young children of the UNA.

That's the public story, anyway.

In reality, James is particularly disdainful of pure organics, even more so than most sovice. His reputation is entirely the work of the Grandfather, and James's insistence on participating in field work is both part of this image and a way to vent his frustration with organics on the ALF. His pistol and armor appear to be standard issue, but observers have seen the breastplate take shots that would shoot through concrete without even scratching, and, if anyone were to get close to his weapon, they would note the bullets are made of super-heavy neuranium (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Neuranium) and charged with an energy shell, not to mention numerous other modifications that put it well beyond anything that might be seen for several centuries compared to the technology in any "grunt's" gun.


I realize I did a terrible job with the UNA grunt uniform, but hey, we all know my art is mediocre.

Another FI Character- Tycho Dalren, fledgling Planeswalker
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc78/TheGreatSquark/Future%20Imperfect/Non-canon/TychoDalren.pngTycho Dalren is the first planeswalker in the history of Avbaroy. He has the potential to become one of the most powerful mages in its history. For now, however, he is simply one of many students at the UNA Academy for Sorcerers.

Tycho Dalren was an orphan, and, up until last month, knew nothing of any magical abilities he had. Sure, he was lucky and made friends easily, but that didn't mean anything. Then, one month ago, a group of rebels so amoral that the entire ALF unanimously kicked them out* decided to bomb his orphanage. Fortunately, the would-be bombers were also incompetent, and the bomb exploded prematurely in a park just outside the orphanage, killing no one but them. However, the trees in the park were, of course, damaged beyond repair. Or so one might thought. Naturally, being close to the park, all the orphans had fond memories of the place, and Tycho was no exception. Unlike the other orphans, though, when gazing out at the scorched ground of the beloved park, he could do something about it.

Three seconds later, to everyone's surprise, all the trees in the park had regrown. As well as many that were never there to begin with.

UNA magical inspectors quickly began a search for magi, and Tycho was discovered, and sent to the Academy. Tycho was quite pleased with this. After all, next year he would have been released from the orphanages custody anyway, and the way his scholarship plan worked, he would get an entire college education, entirely funded by the state.

Once at the Academy, though, Tycho began to realize he was different. The other just manifested sorcerers were, for one thing, about half a decade younger, and, in a more superstitious society, there inadvertent uses of power might have been dismissed as a minor haunting. There was also something different about where he got his magic. Tycho quickly learned that, supposedly, A wizard draws his power from books, a sorcerer from an innate magical connection, and a divine caster from the gods. Tycho, on the other hand, felt like he didn't so much draw power from himself, as he did from the land around him. He has kept this idea to himself at this point, more out of not knowing what to make of it than anything else.

POWER LEVEL NOTE: Because cities like the one Tycho lives in are not exactly known for supplying mana to most forms of planeswalker magic, Tycho is unable to draw much power for his magic, and lacks the control to use incredibly powerful spells to begin with. In MTG game terms, this limits him to one mana of each color for spell casting, except for white mana, which he can draw upon up to three, as white is the color of community. He still has a reasonable supply of uncolored mana, though.



*And yes, I'm aware how hard it would be to be that amoral.


EDIT: Gah, just when I want feedback, almost everyone goes offline. :smallannoyed:

SinisterPenguin
2009-08-06, 09:37 PM
Shouldn't the TJH archive be added to the first post (in both the discussion thread and the art thread)?


Actually, I think I've got an idea of how he'll project his public image, and his uniform will play into that.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc78/TheGreatSquark/Future%20Imperfect/Non-canon/JamesIns.png Chief Conservator of the Peace James Ins is, like all the sovice, one person in public and another in private. To the average person on the street, James is, despite the fact that his adoptive father is the de facto leader of the UNA, a self-made man of the common person. He rose through the ranks quickly, not because of connections as some others might, but through competency and devotion to his men. His devotion is so great that he continues to wear the uniform of a common watchman, although those "close" to him would argue that this is more yet another excuse to annoy politicians. Despite this, James is very public about his commitment to the UNA, because, "It may have too many stuffy politicians for my sake, but its still a world better than anything Avbaroy had before it." Always quick with a joke and willing to move mountains to save even the lowest-ranking men under his command, he is a role model to many young children of the UNA.

That's the public story, anyway.

In reality, James is particularly disdainful of pure organics, even more so than most sovice. His reputation is entirely the work of the Grandfather, and James's insistence on participating in field work is both part of this image and a way to vent his frustration with organics on the ALF. His pistol and armor appear to be standard issue, but observers have seen the breastplate take shots that would shoot through concrete without even scratching, and, if anyone were to get close to his weapon, they would note the bullets are made of super-heavy neuranium (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Neuranium) and charged with an energy shell, not to mention numerous other modifications that put it well beyond anything that might be seen for several centuries compared to the technology in any "grunt's" gun.


I realize I did a terrible job with the UNA grunt uniform, but hey, we all know my art is mediocre.

Another FI Character- Tycho Dalren, fledgling Planeswalker
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc78/TheGreatSquark/Future%20Imperfect/Non-canon/TychoDalren.pngTycho Dalren is the first planeswalker in the history of Avbaroy. He has the potential to become one of the most powerful mages in its history. For now, however, he is simply one of many students at the UNA Academy for Sorcerers.

Tycho Dalren was an orphan, and, up until last month, knew nothing of any magical abilities he had. Sure, he was lucky and made friends easily, but that didn't mean anything. Then, one month ago, a group of rebels so amoral that the entire ALF unanimously kicked them out* decided to bomb his orphanage. Fortunately, the would-be bombers were also incompetent, and the bomb exploded prematurely in a park just outside the orphanage, killing no one but them. However, the trees in the park were, of course, damaged beyond repair. Or so one might thought. Naturally, being close to the park, all the orphans had fond memories of the place, and Tycho was no exception. Unlike the other orphans, though, when gazing out at the scorched ground of the beloved park, he could do something about it.

Three seconds later, to everyone's surprise, all the trees in the park had regrown. As well as many that were never there to begin with.

UNA magical inspectors quickly began a search for magi, and Tycho was discovered, and sent to the Academy. Tycho was quite pleased with this. After all, next year he would have been released from the orphanages custody anyway, and the way his scholarship plan worked, he would get an entire college education, entirely funded by the state.

Once at the Academy, though, Tycho began to realize he was different. The other just manifested sorcerers were, for one thing, about half a decade younger, and, in a more superstitious society, there inadvertent uses of power might have been dismissed as a minor haunting. There was also something different about where he got his magic. Tycho quickly learned that, supposedly, A wizard draws his power from books, a sorcerer from an innate magical connection, and a divine caster from the gods. Tycho, on the other hand, felt like he didn't so much draw power from himself, as he did from the land around him. He has kept this idea to himself at this point, more out of not knowing what to make of it than anything else.

POWER LEVEL NOTE: Because cities like the one Tycho lives in are not exactly known for supplying mana to most forms of planeswalker magic, Tycho is unable to draw much power for his magic, and lacks the control to use incredibly powerful spells to begin with. In MTG game terms, this limits him to one mana of each color for spell casting, except for white mana, which he can draw upon up to three, as white is the color of community. He still has a reasonable supply of uncolored mana, though.



*And yes, I'm aware how hard it would be to be that amoral.


EDIT: Gah, just when I want feedback, almost everyone goes offline. :smallannoyed:

Both of them seem pretty interesting to me. :smallsmile:

Szilard
2009-08-06, 10:31 PM
Page Two!:smalltongue:

X2
2009-08-06, 10:31 PM
Is anyone here?

Hello! (Hello! Hello!)

Tiffanie Lirle
2009-08-07, 01:16 AM
Lame, gotta read through like 8 pages. :smallsigh:

Also, does anyone notice anything weird about this image?

I wouldn't stare at it too long btw.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/blazefenix/4chan%20and%20Demotivators/epicwin.jpg
Incase you saw it, it's a jpeg, not a gif. Check yourself. :smalltongue:

memnarch
2009-08-07, 03:18 AM
Dizzying! :smalltongue:

Nehh
2009-08-07, 03:34 AM
Can someone keep Atem alive? Please?

Also, I tried adding him to the wiki but the formatting went strange and it won't make a page.

Keveak
2009-08-07, 04:03 AM
Lame, gotta read through like 8 pages. :smallsigh:

Also, does anyone notice anything weird about this image?

I wouldn't stare at it too long btw.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/blazefenix/4chan%20and%20Demotivators/epicwin.jpg
Incase you saw it, it's a jpeg, not a gif. Check for yourself. :smalltongue:

Yay! it looks funny :smallbiggrin: Got any others?

@Squark: ALF is not extremely amoral, they are trying to save the world from Ins evil plan to destroy it (though not even the players know if the plan exist) yes it's filled with criminals but don't say being too amoral for it is hard.

You got the lawyers, politicians and conspiracy cover-up people anyway :smallamused:

Mad Mask
2009-08-07, 07:41 AM
He was talking about a specific front of the ALF that was extremely amoral and incompetent, who was kicked out of the resistance for those reason.

Keveak
2009-08-07, 08:51 AM
He was talking about a specific front of the ALF that was extremely amoral and incompetent, who was kicked out of the resistance for those reason.

But commewnted on it being hard to be too amoral for the ALF.

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-07, 09:03 AM
But commewnted on it being hard to be too amoral for the ALF.

In my day you could quite happily manage to fight against an oppressive regime without somehow becoming a better allegory for Satan than the regime itself.

:xykon:

Keveak
2009-08-07, 09:29 AM
In my day you could quite happily manage to fight against an oppressive regime without somehow becoming a better allegory for Satan than the regime itself.

:xykon:

You can't fight the UNA without dirty methods?:smallfrown:

Well if not then excuse me while I discover nuclear warfare (can't be too hard we got magic and quite likely there exist previous research, I bet we can do it quicker than the few years it took the US)

Lemming
2009-08-07, 09:45 AM
Well if not then excuse me while I discover nuclear warfare (can't be too hard we got magic and quite likely there exist previous research, I bet we can do it quicker than the few years it took the US)
I don't think the Sovice would let you. :smalltongue:

Mad Mask
2009-08-07, 09:54 AM
You can't fight the UNA without dirty methods?:smallfrown:

Well if not then excuse me while I discover nuclear warfare (can't be too hard we got magic and quite likely there exist previous research, I bet we can do it quicker than the few years it took the US)

So that's why in Salmon's future the world became a big wasteland ! :smalltongue:

Keveak
2009-08-07, 10:14 AM
I don't think the Sovice would let you. :smalltongue:

How would they know what a bunch of scientists and madmen are doing in the hidden headquarter of a resistance that's nowhere near being defeated. :smalltongue:


So that's why in Salmon's future the world became a big wasteland ! :smalltongue:

Except that neither Keveak nor his sons would do it (at least not on purpose but you never know) and that the UNA could do it far quicker and better (see the difference between the suit build in the cave and the one build in Stark industries)... The UNA researching it to get rid of the ALF (remember that in real life it's actual strength was unknown until it was use, it could destroy a few buildings or maybe the entire human civilisation nobody knew) would be agood plot point though (and lead to that wasteland)

Lemming
2009-08-07, 10:24 AM
How would they know what a bunch of scientists and madmen are doing in the hidden headquarter of a resistance that's nowhere near being defeated. :smalltongue:
Obviously because Lying's Sovice poison is also designed so they can spy on us. :smalltongue:
Haven't you heard? It's the latest conspiracy. :smallwink:

Mad Mask
2009-08-07, 10:31 AM
no, actualy it's hriky who spys on teh ALF end make they do hainous things him's also teh on who poyson Mynoblendi end is in fakt a Sovis on discuise

-Brought to you by INSincere.

Keveak
2009-08-07, 10:32 AM
Obviously because Lying's Sovice poison is also designed so they can spy on us. :smalltongue:
Haven't you heard? It's the latest conspiracy. :smallwink:

Keveak's the only one from the shade killing team in his department and even he hasn't seen Lying since that (mind you he would have if Lying hadn't been sick since before he joined ALF and his colleagues aren't important enough) so even if that's true then he could still hide it.

Squark
2009-08-07, 10:38 AM
He was talking about a specific front of the ALF that was extremely amoral and incompetent, who was kicked out of the resistance for those reason.

I don't know, I'd consider Chriky fairly amoral. A well-intentioned terrorist is, nonetheless, a terrorist.

Keveak
2009-08-07, 10:47 AM
no, actualy it's hriky who spys on teh ALF end make they do hainous things him's also teh on who poyson Mynoblendi end is in fakt a Sovis on discuise

-Brought to you by INSincere.

Great thing 30% of the stuff in the department is marked "No idea what this is but you gotta be really crazy to test it" and that their labs are rigged to explode in case of treachery :smallbiggrin: You'll never catch us in this world (try the one over there between 4PM and 6AM)


I don't know, I'd consider Chriky fairly amoral. A well-intentioned terrorist is, nonetheless, a terrorist.

Terrorists are what the other side calls freedom fighters. What the Germans called terrorists during the war was among others the Danish resistance.
Besides he hasn't done anything to harm the people like blowing up civilians, you must be thinking of Vampire Rot or Remus.

Squark
2009-08-07, 10:50 AM
Er... Didn't he blow up the hotel Karen Dewey's family was in?

Keveak
2009-08-07, 11:01 AM
Er... Didn't he blow up the hotel Karen Dewey's family was in?

Er... I think there was a lot of enemy politicians in there. Besides England bombed Copenhagen (the capital) simply for being under German control during WW2 and they aren't considered amoral so why should ALF for bombing one building?

BRC
2009-08-07, 11:03 AM
Er... I think there was a lot of enemy politicians in there. Besides England bombed Copenhagen (the capital) simply for being under German control during WW2 and they aren't considered amoral so why should ALF for bombing one building?
That alone isn't why they are considered Amoral. That one bombing is simply why Keren Dewey personally hates them so much.

The Gremlin
2009-08-07, 11:11 AM
These weapons can be wielded by normal humans as well.

Um...why? Wouldn't it be better if the guns were unusable by a human, so that if the Dettas are destroyed, the enemy doesn't get more ammo and stuff?

BRC
2009-08-07, 11:13 AM
Um...why? Wouldn't it be better if the guns were unusable by a human, so that if the Dettas are destroyed, the enemy doesn't get more ammo and stuff?
The UNA has plenty of ammunition and firearms, which tend to be superior to the Detta's weapons anyway. This way if the Dettas are destroyed, ALF members can use the guns in question. It also means that, rather than manufacturing two types of guns, one for dettas, and one for humans, Ven only has to build one type of weapon for both.

Mad Mask
2009-08-07, 11:16 AM
Er... I think there was a lot of enemy politicians in there. Besides England bombed Copenhagen (the capital) simply for being under German control during WW2 and they aren't considered amoral so why should ALF for bombing one building?

That's because the winners write history (for England).

The hotel contained mostly rich people and their families. The few targets that were eliminated don't represent a great percentage against the amount of other innocent people and children killed. A few puppies and kittens also died in the explosion.

Chriky also bombed other buildings containing innocents, which doesn't help.

Green-Shirt Q
2009-08-07, 11:33 AM
Chriky also bombed other buildings containing innocents, which doesn't help.

Of course.

Oh Chriky. When will you ever learn? No matter how hard you try, you will always fail horribly. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

*has no idea what the hell anybody was talking about*

Keveak
2009-08-07, 11:42 AM
That's because the winners write history (for England).

The hotel contained mostly rich people and their families. The few targets that were eliminated don't represent a great percentage against the amount of other innocent people and children killed. A few puppies and kittens also died in the explosion.

Chriky also bombed other buildings containing innocents, which doesn't help.

So? That doesn't mean it weren't a bad thing to do, it just mean that during wartime it is okay to kill many innocent people if it's for a good reason (Germany could reach Sweden and it's precious iron through Denmark so killing a couple of thousand civilians in the process of stopping them is perfectly fine) I'm not saying Chriky's actions are good just that it wouldn't be considered amoral if it was done during wartime which it is, if he did it spontaneously in peacetime or without a reason then yes but with one during wartime and it's okay You know what? screw that I still think it's bad (I agree with you know :smallbiggrin:)

Threeshades
2009-08-07, 01:32 PM
Dibs on the next Art thread!

Mad Mask
2009-08-07, 01:39 PM
Dibs on the next Art thread!

Shades of Gray already called it a long time ago, I think.

Wreckingrocc
2009-08-07, 01:45 PM
Then, since they're being ridiculous and are bickering, I think it's only fair that I, one of the most important contributors to ABR, who devotes his life to making it work, should get dibs on it. :smalltongue:

Keveak
2009-08-07, 01:47 PM
Shades of Gray already called it a long time ago, I think.

He did.

By the way isn't Greek week over?

Squark
2009-08-07, 01:56 PM
He did.

By the way isn't Greek week over?

Still feeling awkward around MM's avatar, Kev? :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:


Maybe he likes it this way.

SinisterPenguin
2009-08-07, 01:59 PM
Then, since they're being ridiculous and are bickering, I think it's only fair that I, one of the most important contributors to ABR, who devotes his life to making it work, should get dibs on it. :smalltongue:

Oh yeah? Well, to tell you all the truth, YPU was assassinated for some reason by an evil time traveler before he created the first ABR thread. So I, using my awesome time traveling skillz, had to go back in time and impersonate YPU. Then I posted the first ABR thread so that the future wouldn't change.

Thus, being the actual founder of ABR, I should make the next art thread. :smalltongue:

Wreckingrocc
2009-08-07, 02:03 PM
Oh yeah? Well, to tell you all the truth, YPU was assassinated for some reason by an evil time traveler before he created the first ABR thread. So I, using my awesome time traveling skillz, had to go back in time and impersonate YPU. Then I posted the first ABR thread so that the future wouldn't change.

Thus, being the actual founder of ABR, I should make the next art thread. :smalltongue:Naw, you founded it, but didn't come up with it.

Plus you claimed yourself to be an imposter.

Threeshades
2009-08-07, 02:06 PM
Naw, you founded it, but didn't come up with it.

Plus you claimed yourself to be an imposter.

And therefore will be publicly burned.

Mad Mask
2009-08-07, 02:12 PM
In point of fact, in consideration of that I am the prime mover of Future Imperfect and I'd find appealing to supplement an abundance of neoteric peculiarities to the thread, it would only be commonsensical that you would warrant me to construct the subsequent artistry thread.

In conjunction with the following rationalisation, I would be gratified to make further comment in my resourcefulness in conjuring humongous non-verbal units of language.

Szilard
2009-08-07, 02:15 PM
I am declined to acquiesce your request.

Mad Mask
2009-08-07, 02:18 PM
Are you inclined to explicate the antecedent of your proceedings ?

Szilard
2009-08-07, 02:20 PM
Not really. I just felt like using a Pirates of the Caribbean quote.:smalltongue:

chriky
2009-08-07, 02:21 PM
I think that Chriky and certain other ALF members are amoral but ALF on the whole is not.

Squark
2009-08-07, 02:47 PM
I think that Chriky and certain other ALF members are amoral but ALF on the whole is not.

yes, but these guys were voted out UNANIMOUSLY, which means that they made even Chriky and co. sick.

Keveak
2009-08-07, 02:55 PM
Still feeling awkward around MM's avatar, Kev? :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:


Maybe he likes it this way.

Nope, he's just the last one with a Greek avatar.

Point, but he usually has either a cyclops or Victor avatar, that one is none of them and he hasn't changed it in a while (Weren't he the most productive member of ABR)

@Squark: I bet Rot and Remus are both worse :smallamused:

chriky
2009-08-07, 03:12 PM
Is SOG doing a cast picture aswell?

SinisterPenguin
2009-08-07, 03:18 PM
Is SOG doing a cast picture aswell?

Wasn't Tiffanie doing the cast picture?

Mad Mask
2009-08-07, 03:34 PM
Nope, I'm doing the cast picture. :smallsmile:

Squark
2009-08-07, 03:40 PM
@Squark: I bet Rot and Remus are both worse :smallamused:

Hence, and co.

Keveak
2009-08-07, 03:47 PM
Hence, and co.

Who is Hence?

Keris
2009-08-07, 03:57 PM
Who is Hence?
For this reason; as a result.

Squark's post meant "Which is why I added the 'and co.'".

Squark
2009-08-07, 04:05 PM
Indeed.

More character art

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc78/TheGreatSquark/Future%20Imperfect/Non-canon/SquarkIotaDeskridden.pngAfter exposure to the same pathogen that stole Igon Minoblendy's mind, Squark Iota has been forced to, for the first time in centuries, fight for his life. While he is winning the battle, he is paying a terrible price; The fight to preserve his mind has locked off the parts of his brain that control his magical and psionic abilities, and has made using the force for even simple tasks incredibly painful. It has also crippled him physically, leaving him, for the most part, deskridden. These days, Squark Iota spends his days sifting through intel files, only getting off his chair to get more extra strength coffee.


Thoughts?

Tiffanie Lirle
2009-08-07, 04:11 PM
Thoughts?
I'm not sure why, but the desk and those clothes make me think he looks like a used car salesmen.

Weird.

Keveak
2009-08-07, 04:26 PM
For this reason; as a result.

Squark's post meant "Which is why I added the 'and co.'".

But they aren't in the resistance so they can hardly be the "And co." for Chriky (or most other people, they are insane mass murderers after all)

SinisterPenguin
2009-08-07, 04:34 PM
But they aren't in the resistance so they can hardly be the "And co." for Chriky (or most other people, they are insane mass murderers after all)

I believe "and co." was referring to the other amoral members of the resistance, not the people who were kicked out.

Keveak
2009-08-07, 04:37 PM
I believe "and co." was referring to the other amoral members of the resistance, not the people who were kicked out.

He said "Hence "and co."" to me saying those too was worse thus stating they are the reason for the "and co.".

Besides who said they where kicked out :smalltongue:

SinisterPenguin
2009-08-07, 04:40 PM
He said "Hence "and co."" to me saying those too was worse thus stating they are the reason for the "and co.".

Besides who said they where kicked out :smalltongue:

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood your post. Forget I said anything.

Squark
2009-08-07, 04:44 PM
Sorry, I thought they were members of the resistance, hence the "hence."

CrimsonAngel
2009-08-07, 09:54 PM
Cat-Muffins. That is all.

T-O-E
2009-08-07, 09:56 PM
What?
Filler text...

Darklord Bright
2009-08-08, 03:36 AM
So. Uh. Anyone alive in here?

I'm currently in a trailer-home behind my grandparents' house in another town, but I've assembled my computer and fed cords from the van into the kitchen window.

So yes, if anyone wants me to draw anything, I'll do it, but I won't be able to scan it for a day or two until I'm back. But it would give me something to do...

But by the time anyone's seen this I'll probably be home again :smallamused:

chriky
2009-08-08, 04:31 AM
I'm going away for the next six days so try as hard as possible to not start FI. I know its unlikely but it is possible.

Keveak
2009-08-08, 04:35 AM
So. Uh. Anyone alive in here?

I'm currently in a trailer-home behind my grandparents' house in another town, but I've assembled my computer and fed cords from the van into the kitchen window.

So yes, if anyone wants me to draw anything, I'll do it, but I won't be able to scan it for a day or two until I'm back. But it would give me something to do...

But by the time anyone's seen this I'll probably be home again :smallamused:

Alive? I don't know about that but I'm around.

@Chriky: Considering how fast the progress is moving now I'd say you coud take tw weeks off without missing it:smalltongue:

Squark
2009-08-08, 07:58 AM
Indeed. I doubt you have much to worry about.

EDIT: Actually, I like this lengthy break, since it gives us time to get all the templates for other people's characters done, so we don't feel quite as rushed once the action picks up.

chriky
2009-08-08, 10:44 AM
Actually, I like this lengthy break, since it gives us time to get all the templates for other people's characters done, so we don't feel quite as rushed once the action picks up.

Wait is that what I was meant to be doing. Oh crap

Kopaka
2009-08-08, 11:04 AM
*Bumps into thread*
*Rubs head ruefully, and proceeds to disrupt normal conversation*
FUTURE IMPERFECT!? WHERE!?
ooooh, it's just the thread name...
carry on.
*wanders off to make some random and unrelated comic*

EDIT: Actually, question: is there a running list of the people planning on being in FI? I like squak's idea of starting on character templates. (note that I've been meaning to join for a long time, and was told sometime in the spring that FI would be starting soon and that I should wait until then.)

Threeshades
2009-08-08, 11:29 AM
Wait is that what I was meant to be doing. Oh crap

Holy carbs.:smalleek: I guess Im behid schedule then. I think I will just make my templates as I include them in my comics. Just as I always did. I have no idea anyway how most of the people look. I remember Q has a badass loncoat now and Igon seems to be shapeshifting constantly, as MM cant decide on what to make him look like. Why doesnt Lying take care of that himself anyway? And I know what standard peacekeepers look like. But that's it.

Keveak
2009-08-08, 12:02 PM
Holy carbs.:smalleek: I guess Im behid schedule then. I think I will just make my templates as I include them in my comics. Just as I always did. I have no idea anyway how most of the people look. I remember Q has a badass loncoat now and Igon seems to be shapeshifting constantly, as MM cant decide on what to make him look like. Why doesnt Lying take care of that himself anyway? And I know what standard peacekeepers look like. But that's it.

I haven't even made my characters templates myself :smalltongue: (But I made quite a lot of FI templates a while ago)

I'll make them soon but not today (I found way to many mangas and web-comics to have the time).

Squark
2009-08-08, 12:18 PM
(needing to start a conversation)


What do you guys think of my new avatar?

Keveak
2009-08-08, 12:21 PM
(needing to start a conversation)


What do you guys think of my new avatar?

Oh my Whatever! It's Dumbo! :smalltongue:

Seriously it looks rather good I think. :smallbiggrin:

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-08, 12:26 PM
(needing to start a conversation)


What do you guys think of my new avatar?

...

...

...what is it? :smallconfused:

T-O-E
2009-08-08, 12:42 PM
One of those blue flying insect things from Star Wars episode 1 and 2?

Fay Graydon
2009-08-08, 01:04 PM
...

...

...what is it? :smallconfused:

He's a Toydarian! Mind tricks dont work on him!
Only money!
And a blaster shot through the head...

Also... I think Mad Mssk should suply us with pictures of all the characters in FI so we can template them! *hint hint*

Mad Mask
2009-08-08, 01:08 PM
Holy carbs.:smalleek: I guess Im behid schedule then. I think I will just make my templates as I include them in my comics. Just as I always did. I have no idea anyway how most of the people look. I remember Q has a badass loncoat now and Igon seems to be shapeshifting constantly, as MM cant decide on what to make him look like. Why doesnt Lying take care of that himself anyway? And I know what standard peacekeepers look like. But that's it.

Hey. :smallannoyed:

I've changed his appearance only once.

memnarch
2009-08-08, 01:34 PM
...

...

...what is it? :smallconfused:

This thing (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Toydarian).

Green-Shirt Q
2009-08-08, 04:05 PM
Also... I think Mad Mssk should suply us with pictures of all the characters in FI so we can template them! *hint hint*

Why mad Mask? He isn't in charge! I could supply the templates for my FI characters, if you wish.

In fact, here they are.

http://i30.tinypic.com/etctpk.png
(Left to right: Green-Shirted Q, Original Q, the screwdriver-gun Q stole from Uncle Szilard, the Qotorcycle (niether of those last two are characters, but they're in the same picture I had in hand so never mind), The Sultan of Avbaroy, Presto, Bela, Nath Bortak.

Keris
2009-08-08, 04:13 PM
Why mad Mask? He isn't in charge! I could supply the templates for my FI characters, if you wish.

You have four characters (not including pets)? How many of them would be able to be killed off? FI is supposed to be an Anyone Can Die (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnyoneCanDie) plotline, IIRC.

At last count, I have seven characters planned out, almost all of which are expendable.

Green-Shirt Q
2009-08-08, 04:19 PM
You have four characters (not including pets)? How many of them would be able to be killed off? FI is supposed to be an Anyone Can Die (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnyoneCanDie) plotline, IIRC.

At last count, I have seven characters planned out, almost all of which are expendable.

Actually, any of them can die. In fact, all of them WILL die.

Of course, I want them to last in the story, though. I don't want them to all to die in the first chapter of the story. I don't want them to have bridges dropped on them (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DroppedABridgeOnHim). I think that's a pretty reasonable request.

Tiffanie Lirle
2009-08-08, 04:20 PM
Actually, question: is there a running list of the people planning on being in FI?
Linkified (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5530814&postcount=763)

That should give you most of the people, 'fraid it won't help you with figuring out what their characters look like though. :smalltongue:

Although you can see some of the ALF characters here.
Link (http://www.kinogo.com/victor/resistanceschema2.gif)

Keris
2009-08-08, 04:27 PM
Actually, any of them can die. In fact, all of them WILL die.

Really? I'd have though you'd want to hang onto the Qs and Bortak. You've kept them alive through your entire backstory, and FFF. Who will you be after the Qs are gone?

Keveak
2009-08-08, 04:33 PM
Really? I'd have though you'd want to hang onto the Qs and Bortak. You've kept them alive through your entire backstory, and FFF. Who will you be after the Qs are gone?

I don't plan on having more than one of the kobolds survive (depending on which it will have different results)

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-08, 04:36 PM
I intend for Igon to survive, I see him as almost a piece of the landscape of Avbaroy, reflecting on a metaphorical level how the world is reacting to what's happening in the present day.

Green-Shirt Q
2009-08-08, 04:42 PM
Really? I'd have though you'd want to hang onto the Qs and Bortak. You've kept them alive through your entire backstory, and FFF. Who will you be after the Qs are gone?

Nobody. I would stop writing for ABR. I would finish.

...Or I would create a new character. Either way. Whatever I feel like when that happens.

I also have plans to bring the Qs back to life afterwards (though not in the way you might expect).

Keveak
2009-08-08, 04:51 PM
Nobody. I would stop writing for ABR. I would finish.

...Or I would create a new character. Either way. Whatever I feel like when that happens.

I also have plans to bring the Qs back to life afterwards (though not in the way you might expect).

I only plan on having Keveak's bloodline survive, and yes there will be half-kobolds (what the other half will be is the scary part :smalltongue:)

Mad Mask
2009-08-08, 05:00 PM
Linkified (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5530814&postcount=763)

That should give you most of the people, 'fraid it won't help you with figuring out what their characters look like though. :smalltongue:

Although you can see some of the ALF characters here.
Link (http://www.kinogo.com/victor/resistanceschema2.gif)

I'm currently making the cast picture, so you'll have all of them easily templatable.

Keveak
2009-08-08, 05:10 PM
I'm currently making the cast picture, so you'll have all of them easily templatable.

If you are including any of my characters then don't use the old pictures I made (they've changed) ask if you want to know (I'll also upload them during the next few days) :smallbiggrin:

Ninja Chocobo
2009-08-08, 10:28 PM
What do you guys think of my new avatar?

He looks like Gonzo. Is he Gonzo?

Felyndiira
2009-08-08, 10:57 PM
(Attempts to squeeze into the Future Imperfect line)

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2176/norn.png
Norn St. Voluspa
(The picture is still preliminary, although I expect the end result to be somewhat similar. I might (and will likely) end up simplifying her clothing a bit and add details as appropriate, in addition to the obligatory blue hair.)

Norn St. Voluspa is, to those have come to know her, a simple medic and battle cleric working for the resistance movement. She's a specialist in divine magic - although this itself is shrouded in a cloud of mystery as she is Agnostic and rarely devout to a philosophical ideal. As she is an "escaped testing subject" from the UNA laboratories, this discrepancy is rarely noted, since most of her colleagues assume, by Occam's Razor, that her abilities are simply the result of random UNA testing.

In reality, Norn's divine powers result from a born metaphysical ability to, in essence, manipulate souls to fuel her own power. She can't force souls out of still-living bodies, of course, although she can and will often subconsciously strip an already dead soul in close proximity of its memories and experiences, leaving only a hollow shell of free will and jumbled intelligence for Nameless to reap. The soul must be allied or neutral to her prior to death for this to occur, so killing powerful enemies have no bearing to her own strength.

Her base divine spells do not consume souls per use; instead, merely having souls of certain power will grant Norn the ability to use a certain level of divine power (though it makes her weaker than clerics of her level). The souls can be directly used, however, to power small, specially crafted dolls with artificial life. These dolls gain a level of power proportional to the power of the original soul, so a doll created from a commoner might be fragile and only able to shoot simple projectiles, a doll created from a normal soldier might be able to lance and heal, and a doll created from a more powerful being are a significant threat. However, incarnum collected in this fashion suffer a risk of destruction once a doll is destroyed, so mostly, she surrounds herself with weaker soldier-dolls to provide combat support and aid her in healing wounded soldiers.

Either way, Norn is not a pure moon elf, as her appearance would suggest. Her racial abilities includes at will Polymorph Any Object (limited, nonliving to nonliving only), True Creation (very limited, can only create dolls), and the ability to restore one of her collected souls to life per three days. Because of these powers, her apparently methodical method of using divine magic, and her limited ability to tap into soul/incarnum energy, Norn was treated as a lab rat by the UNA during her childhood, which left her with a burning hatred of the top officials in the UNA. To this end, she allies herself with the resistance so that she could, with her own eyes, see the United Nations of Avbaroy burn in flames.

Norn is otherwise a kind person, and regards most of the leaders of the resistance as treasured comrades in arms for a common cause.

memnarch
2009-08-08, 11:03 PM
He looks like Gonzo. Is he Gonzo?


One of those blue flying insect things from Star Wars episode 1 and 2?


He's a Toydarian! Mind tricks dont work on him!
Only money!
And a blaster shot through the head...

Also... I think Mad Mssk should suply us with pictures of all the characters in FI so we can template them! *hint hint*


This thing (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Toydarian).

Not Gonzo.

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-09, 12:20 AM
(Attempts to squeeze into the Future Imperfect line)

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2176/norn.png
Norn St. Voluspa
(The picture is still preliminary, although I expect the end result to be somewhat similar. I might (and will likely) end up simplifying her clothing a bit and add details as appropriate, in addition to the obligatory blue hair.)

Norn St. Voluspa is, to those have come to know her, a simple medic and battle cleric working for the resistance movement. She's a specialist in divine magic - although this itself is shrouded in a cloud of mystery as she is Agnostic and rarely devout to a philosophical ideal. As she is an "escaped testing subject" from the UNA laboratories, this discrepancy is rarely noted, since most of her colleagues assume, by Occam's Razor, that her abilities are simply the result of random UNA testing.

In reality, Norn's divine powers result from a born metaphysical ability to, in essence, manipulate souls to fuel her own power. She can't force souls out of still-living bodies, of course, although she can and will often subconsciously strip an already dead soul in close proximity of its memories and experiences, leaving only a hollow shell of free will and jumbled intelligence for Nameless to reap. The soul must be allied or neutral to her prior to death for this to occur, so killing powerful enemies have no bearing to her own strength.

Her base divine spells do not consume souls per use; instead, merely having souls of certain power will grant Norn the ability to use a certain level of divine power (though it makes her weaker than clerics of her level). The souls can be directly used, however, to power small, specially crafted dolls with artificial life. These dolls gain a level of power proportional to the power of the original soul, so a doll created from a commoner might be fragile and only able to shoot simple projectiles, a doll created from a normal soldier might be able to lance and heal, and a doll created from a more powerful being are a significant threat. However, incarnum collected in this fashion suffer a risk of destruction once a doll is destroyed, so mostly, she surrounds herself with weaker soldier-dolls to provide combat support and aid her in healing wounded soldiers.

Either way, Norn is not a pure moon elf, as her appearance would suggest. Her racial abilities includes at will Polymorph Any Object (limited, nonliving to nonliving only), True Creation (very limited, can only create dolls), and the ability to restore one of her collected souls to life per three days. Because of these powers, her apparently methodical method of using divine magic, and her limited ability to tap into soul/incarnum energy, Norn was treated as a lab rat by the UNA during her childhood, which left her with a burning hatred of the top officials in the UNA. To this end, she allies herself with the resistance so that she could, with her own eyes, see the United Nations of Avbaroy burn in flames.

Norn is otherwise a kind person, and regards most of the leaders of the resistance as treasured comrades in arms for a common cause.

She's an innate necrocarnate?! :smalleek:

I should probably note that necrocarnate abilities are what Tala (As in Remember's current storyline) uses to devour souls and fuel her minions.

Ninja Chocobo
2009-08-09, 02:17 AM
Not Gonzo.

Doesn't stop 'im from looking similar, though.

Kopaka
2009-08-09, 08:45 AM
Hmm...obviously this isn't going to be anything like FFF (in terms of joining, at least), so I suppose I'll have to actually come up with a backstory. Just as a basis, can I be some sort of vigilante/mercenary involved with the resistance?

(I'll be using this character, if I haven't said that yet)
http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww354/carped20/OOTSBeguilerv2.png

memnarch
2009-08-09, 08:54 AM
Doesn't stop 'im from looking similar, though.

Especially in OotS style.

Mad Mask
2009-08-09, 09:08 AM
Hmm...obviously this isn't going to be anything like FFF (in terms of joining, at least), so I suppose I'll have to actually come up with a backstory. Just as a basis, can I be some sort of vigilante/mercenary involved with the resistance?

(I'll be using this character, if I haven't said that yet)
http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww354/carped20/OOTSBeguilerv2.png

If you want to have a mercenary the UNA is probably a more logical choice, since he'll have money and access to better weapons. Also, only people who are in the ALF are either insane, evil (or criminals), have connections to Igon Minoblendy or are patriotic fanatics. He'll have to have good reasons to be with them, since life in the Resistance is pretty crappy compared to that of your average UNA citizen.

Keveak
2009-08-09, 09:25 AM
If you want to have a mercenary the UNA is probably a more logical choice, since he'll have money and access to better weapons. Also, only people who are in the ALF are either insane, evil (or criminals), have connections to Igon Minoblendy or are patriotic fanatics. He'll have to have good reasons to be with them, since life in the Resistance is pretty crappy compared to that of your average UNA citizen.

Or believe in Igon Minoblendy, and then there's the idealists and those who can't survive alone that the UNA won't help (as in most strict governments they probably don't care about poor people or those who are unable to productively help the society)

And I bet there's a lot of people who can and will pay more than the UNA in the resistance (and don't care about the law either)

Kopaka
2009-08-09, 09:27 AM
Hmm...
I dunno. I reread the site stuff, so I'll think about this again...peacekeepers mebbe? Depends on how peaceful their methods are.

I don't know so much about what specific groups are trying to do, I think I must have missed some big discussion about how stuff was going to work. (Dammit, that's the whole reason I've been lurking here! :smallfurious: Oh well...)

Keveak
2009-08-09, 09:35 AM
I don't know so much about what specific groups are trying to do, I think I must have missed some big discussion about how stuff was going to work. (Dammit, that's the whole reason I've been lurking here! :smallfurious: Oh well...)

The UNA was founded by (possibly among others) Ins a sovice nanice's soul in Igon's old body whom Igon and the resistance know is evil and think has a sinister motive with the UNA, meanwhile the UNA appears to be a paradisal (though a bit strict on magic and how much knowledge is enough for the laymen) world-spanning society. The resistance try to prevent Ins evil plan (notice that they lack solid proof) while the UNA try to strop them (whom they see as crazy terrorists) The entire setting is a darker and edgier future of FFF so nobody is yet sure who is right.

Mad Mask
2009-08-09, 09:44 AM
The ALF is a violent fanatical organisation of criminals who seek to impose their dogmatic ideology by acts of terrorism against innocent targets. Its members live in poverty and misery, crawling insides the sewers of the cities and stealing and raiding food from the marketplaces.

The UNA is an utopia first created to defend the world against forces of pure evil, and has essentially put an end to war and significantly reduced crime rates in all parts of the world. The Peacekeepers acts mainly as a law enforcement agency and use military force when necessary, such as against the ALF and other terrorist groups, such as the Sons of Schizotec.

At least that's one version of the story. :smalltongue:

Keveak
2009-08-09, 10:09 AM
The ALF is a violent fanatical organisation of criminals who seek to impose their dogmatic ideology by acts of terrorism against innocent targets. Its members live in poverty and misery, crawling insides the sewers of the cities and stealing and raiding food from the marketplaces.

The UNA is an utopia first created to defend the world against forces of pure evil, and has essentially put an end to war and significantly reduced crime rates in all parts of the world. The Peacekeepers acts mainly as a law enforcement agency and use military force when necessary, such as against the ALF and other terrorist groups, such as the Sons of Schizotec.

At least that's one version of the story. :smalltongue:

My version is more neutral and explains the motives of each side, yours remind me of a guy I do not like who hated Jews and also of Lex Luthor :smalltongue:

None of my characters are criminals by the way (600 year old laws and wartime mix very good) they are diplomats :smallamused: Except Remus, he's insane and thus not a criminal either :smalltongue:

Mad Mask
2009-08-09, 10:14 AM
My version is more neutral and explains the motives of each side, yours remind me of a guy I do not like who hated Jews and also of Lex Luthor :smalltongue:

Um... The UNA was created to eliminate Avbaroyan wars, not to wage them. And it does not put people in concentration camp just for being part of the wrong ideology or invent high-powered devices to kill Superman when it could simply sell them for a high price and become the richest man in the world.


None of my characters are criminals by the way (600 year old laws and wartime mix very good) they are diplomats :smallamused: Except Remus, he's insane and thus not a criminal either :smalltongue:

What does Keveak do in the Resistance, anyway ? Doing any kind of harm to anyone except under special circumstances (such as legitimate self-defence and military action against criminals [note that resisting Peacekeeper arrest is not self-defence]) is a crime. And simply associating oneself with a terrorist or criminal organisation in a crime in the UNA. :smalltongue:

Keveak
2009-08-09, 10:49 AM
Um... The UNA was created to eliminate Avbaroyan wars, not to wage them. And it does not put people in concentration camp just for being part of the wrong ideology or invent high-powered devices to kill Superman when it could simply sell them for a high price and become the richest man in the world.



What does Keveak do in the Resistance, anyway ? Doing any kind of harm to anyone except under special circumstances (such as legitimate self-defence and military action against criminals [note that resisting Peacekeeper arrest is not self-defence]) is a crime. And simply associating oneself with a terrorist or criminal organisation in a crime in the UNA. :smalltongue:

I said it sounded like the way they speak, overly idealistic and suspiciously perfect. Whether or not the UNA do anything bad is irrelevant, it just sound like they're hiding something or justifying their actions. I didn't want to offend you and I actually thought you aimed for a similar effect :smallbiggrin:



He Research experimental magic. He ain't a citizen of the UNA but of Goldunscael (island state inside a non-UNA continent's borders) which consider the current situation as wartime and thus he is allowed to fight for whoever he wants (the island itself is neutral so he can't oppose it's side) and is allowed to acquire the needed resources for survival such as food (which he get mostly from looking through peoples trash anyway :smalltongue:) The UNA don't have any rights toward him (whether they care is another topic entirely)

Green-Shirt Q
2009-08-09, 12:48 PM
Yo, Xartyve2! When's da next TJH comic gonna be made? You know, da one with da breifing of da next mission? So we can getta move on wit da story?

Don't make me make ya an offa ya can't refuse! Forgettaboutit! :smallannoyed:

-skimmer-
2009-08-09, 01:03 PM
S'not the best work I admit, my grammar still have many flaws, especially when I'm forced to write something larger, but better than nothing I guess:smalltongue:

Skimmer, the peacekeeper:

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/skimmer21/Skimmer-bio.png

Thanks to her supernatural skills of survival, Skimmer is one of the best frontliners the peacekeepers have. Many times she was send into center of battle, she faced many fatal injuries, but she always got back somehow. This and her experience gathered during the 11 years of D-jumping helped her rise through ranks quickly, but she's still not fit to be commander of any sort. Instead she leads a small group of peacekeepers to the front lines under direct commands of the Conservator of peace.

Although her regeneration powers weakened a bit, she can still withstand gunshots or slashing with little harm, atleast as long as she has energy to recover or as long as she has what to recover.......so magic still makes her lot of trouble.
She's primary a melee fighter and in battle she usually relies mainly on bell hammer in combination with her six shooter for longer range.

Skimmer was also possesed by animal ghost known only as Zen, who claims to be one of her sisters from her past. The possession isn't quite perfect, in fact, it degraded and Skimmer's still in charge of her actions, but it's possible that Zen has still some control over her. It happened long time ago before she became peacekeeper, somewhile during TJH plot.

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/skimmer21/Zen-bio.png
(Zens true look. She rarely manifests into this form though)




Becalel, the ghost of transmutation:

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/skimmer21/Becalel-bio.png
(Just image now to remind him, info'll arive shortly later)

Fay Graydon
2009-08-09, 03:42 PM
S'not the best work I admit, my grammar still have many flaws, especially when I'm forced to write something larger, but better than nothing I guess:smalltongue:

Skimmer, the peacekeeper:

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/skimmer21/Skimmer-bio.png

Thanks to her supernatural skills of survival, Skimmer is one of the best frontliners the peacekeepers have. Many times she was send into center of battle, she faced many fatal injuries, but she always got back somehow. This and her experience gathered during the 11 years of D-jumping helped her rise through ranks quickly, but she's still not fit to be commander of any sort. Instead she leads a small group of peacekeepers to the front lines under direct commands of the Conservator of peace.

Although her regeneration powers weakened a bit, she can still withstand gunshots or slashing with little harm, atleast as long as she has energy to recover or as long as she has what to recover.......so magic still makes her lot of trouble.
She's primary a melee fighter and in battle she usually relies mainly on bell hammer in combination with her six shooter for longer range.

Skimmer was also possesed by animal ghost known only as Zen, who claims to be one of her sisters from her past. The possession isn't quite perfect, in fact, it degraded and Skimmer's still in charge of her actions, but it's possible that Zen has still some control over her. It happened long time ago before she became peacekeeper, somewhile during TJH plot.

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/skimmer21/Zen-bio.png
(Zens true look. She rarely manifests into this form though)



D= I was going to lead the Peacekeepers!

DAMN YOU FOX GIRL(BOY) PERSON! :smallannoyed:
*crys in corner*

-skimmer-
2009-08-09, 03:55 PM
D= I was going to lead the Peacekeepers!

DAMN YOU FOX GIRL(BOY) PERSON! :smallannoyed:
*crys in corner*

I'm fairly sure Skimmer's under your command:smallwink:
But I thought Ikaeru's not going into battle directly, while Skimmer does:smallconfused:

Fay Graydon
2009-08-09, 04:07 PM
I'm fairly sure Skimmer's under your command:smallwink:
But I thought Ikaeru's not going into battle directly, while Skimmer does:smallconfused:

Ikaeru is Captain rank (supposedly) and from how you put it across I gathered shes much higher...
Im probabbly over reacting... but dont think you two good armed people can get one up over me! :smallyuk:
:smallbiggrin:

-skimmer-
2009-08-09, 04:25 PM
Ikaeru is Captain rank (supposedly) and from how you put it across I gathered shes much higher...
Im probabbly over reacting... but dont think you two good armed people can get one up over me! :smallyuk:
:smallbiggrin:

Naw, she got to her position fast but got stuck there for a long time.....
<_<
>_>
What positions are below captain anyway?:smallredface:

Keris
2009-08-09, 04:34 PM
What positions are below captain anyway?:smallredface:

Lieutenant and Second Lieutenant in army ranks, Commander, Lieutenant-Commander, Lieutenant, Sub-lieutenant, Ensign and Midshipman in naval ranks.

Felyndiira
2009-08-09, 04:36 PM
She's an innate necrocarnate?! :smalleek:

I should probably note that necrocarnate abilities are what Tala (As in Remember's current storyline) uses to devour souls and fuel her minions.

I promise you that my character won't be that story-breaking, though. A bit of spellcasting, shooting a pistol, and a few rezzes here and there are probably all that she's capable of.

X2
2009-08-09, 06:14 PM
*gasp* *pant pant pant*

Good, I got here in time! I'm writing from the school computers, at home we're having a dispute with our internet provider and I can't access teh webz...

Oops! Gotta go!

Squark
2009-08-09, 06:59 PM
D= I was going to lead the Peacekeepers!

DAMN YOU FOX GIRL(BOY) PERSON! :smallannoyed:
*crys in corner*

Strictly speaking, James Ins is in charge of the peacekeepers, because the Grandfather and Ins want an actualy Sovice in important positions, since there is no risk of them making inadvertant discoveries* which could lead to them rebelling. While he was very good at his job, the fact is, several important people stepped down%/declined promotion%/were killed by "terrorists", which made his getting the job a bit of a no-brainer.



*Even if the UNA is perfectly well-intentioned, there definately need to be a few things they've done** and are going to do, if only because Utopia justifies the means.



** Destroying^ Helina and Alineh, for example

^And we mean DESTROYING.

%There is no real proof that mind control was involved in these events :smallamused:

X2
2009-08-09, 07:25 PM
Yo, Xartyve2! When's da next TJH comic gonna be made? You know, da one with da breifing of da next mission? So we can getta move on wit da story?

Don't make me make ya an offa ya can't refuse! Forgettaboutit! :smallannoyed:

When the internet comes back I'll make one.

Tiffanie Lirle
2009-08-09, 08:01 PM
At least that's one version of the story. :smalltongue:
It's the true version, so really, who cares about the other one? :smalltongue:

Also, I've noticed that the peacekeepers seem to be becoming popular. There's 5 pc's in em so far. Of course, I was the first one, so that makes me the coolest. :smallcool:

Also,
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6652/herot.gif

Nameless
2009-08-09, 08:12 PM
Ikaeru is Captain rank (supposedly) and from how you put it across I gathered shes much higher...
Im probabbly over reacting... but dont think you two good armed people can get one up over me! :smallyuk:
:smallbiggrin:

I thought Ikaerue was gonna be on the ALF. :smallconfused:

Lemming
2009-08-09, 09:11 PM
Also, I've noticed that the peacekeepers seem to be becoming popular. There's 5 pc's in em so far. Of course, I was the first one, so that makes me the coolest. :smallcool:
Compare that to the Navy. Only MM and I have a character in the Navy. :smalltongue: (speaking of which, I should polish him up a bit >_>)

Also,
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6652/herot.gif
Nice. Just... nice.

Threeshades
2009-08-10, 05:07 AM
I should mention that Roka is going to be in FI too. She will be working together with the Resistance, but does not consider herself a member.

Her appearance will probably be only slightly changed. I dont know how yet.

Squark
2009-08-10, 10:42 AM
Hmm...

I'm working on Talia's biography and picture, but at the moment, I can't get her hair right. I want it to be a fairly clean, well-taken care of style, since in public she's a foil to her brother, but I struggle with drawing those.

Grim ranger
2009-08-10, 01:50 PM
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2176/norn.png
Norn St. Voluspa
(The picture is still preliminary, although I expect the end result to be somewhat similar. I might (and will likely) end up simplifying her clothing a bit and add details as appropriate, in addition to the obligatory blue hair.)

Norn St. Voluspa is, to those have come to know her, a simple medic and battle cleric working for the resistance movement. She's a specialist in divine magic - although this itself is shrouded in a cloud of mystery as she is Agnostic and rarely devout to a philosophical ideal. As she is an "escaped testing subject" from the UNA laboratories, this discrepancy is rarely noted, since most of her colleagues assume, by Occam's Razor, that her abilities are simply the result of random UNA testing.

In reality, Norn's divine powers result from a born metaphysical ability to, in essence, manipulate souls to fuel her own power. She can't force souls out of still-living bodies, of course, although she can and will often subconsciously strip an already dead soul in close proximity of its memories and experiences, leaving only a hollow shell of free will and jumbled intelligence for Nameless to reap. The soul must be allied or neutral to her prior to death for this to occur, so killing powerful enemies have no bearing to her own strength.

Her base divine spells do not consume souls per use; instead, merely having souls of certain power will grant Norn the ability to use a certain level of divine power (though it makes her weaker than clerics of her level). The souls can be directly used, however, to power small, specially crafted dolls with artificial life. These dolls gain a level of power proportional to the power of the original soul, so a doll created from a commoner might be fragile and only able to shoot simple projectiles, a doll created from a normal soldier might be able to lance and heal, and a doll created from a more powerful being are a significant threat. However, incarnum collected in this fashion suffer a risk of destruction once a doll is destroyed, so mostly, she surrounds herself with weaker soldier-dolls to provide combat support and aid her in healing wounded soldiers.

Either way, Norn is not a pure moon elf, as her appearance would suggest. Her racial abilities includes at will Polymorph Any Object (limited, nonliving to nonliving only), True Creation (very limited, can only create dolls), and the ability to restore one of her collected souls to life per three days. Because of these powers, her apparently methodical method of using divine magic, and her limited ability to tap into soul/incarnum energy, Norn was treated as a lab rat by the UNA during her childhood, which left her with a burning hatred of the top officials in the UNA. To this end, she allies herself with the resistance so that she could, with her own eyes, see the United Nations of Avbaroy burn in flames.

Norn is otherwise a kind person, and regards most of the leaders of the resistance as treasured comrades in arms for a common cause.

She reminds me somehow of one of the mercs I am thinking of bringing to FI...

Just for reference, here is concept pic I have made for him:
http://a.imagehost.org/0230/Newmercconcept.png (http://a.imagehost.org/view/0230/Newmercconcept)

Shades of Gray
2009-08-10, 05:31 PM
Gah, the inkscape file containing all of my templates keeps on crashing whenever I open it, but other inkscape files are fine. Suggestions?

Felyndiira
2009-08-10, 05:37 PM
You put all of your templates in one file o.o?

(Maybe invest in a memory stick or clean your hard drive a little for more virtual memory =p)

Calamity
2009-08-10, 05:39 PM
Gah, the inkscape file containing all of my templates keeps on crashing whenever I open it, but other inkscape files are fine. Suggestions?

It may be because your templates file has too much stuff in it. You know what Inkscape's like...

Shades of Gray
2009-08-10, 05:46 PM
Not all of them, and I went through a lot of weeding recently, getting rid of old stuff.

The file size is less than what it was a week ago >.>

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-10, 05:51 PM
It may be corrupted then.

Shades of Gray
2009-08-10, 05:52 PM
*doesn't know computers*

Can I un-corrupt it?

Kopaka
2009-08-10, 07:08 PM
So, got a character, working on a bio. Name is Hoss Destra,a half-elf, raised in some border village that remained mostly unaffected by UNA occupation (and is thus basically neutral) (feel free to make decisions as to whether or not such a place actually exists, I figured there's usually a place of the sort) by his father, who was some sort of warrior (maybe a plot hook for later? I have no idea). His father (don't know who/what he was yet) taught him to fight, and how to survive in the big, complicated world. He now works as a mercenary for the UNA.

And, messed around with the pic a bit. Badge to be replaced with some UNA symbol or something that gives him authority (i.e. proves he's working for the UNA).
http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww354/carped20/HossDestaABR.png

Again, obviously, tell me if there are any problems I should fix now before I do the complete bio thingy.

Squark
2009-08-10, 07:43 PM
Probably, Shades of Gray, but it may require reverting to a backup, I'm not positive.

EDIT: Changed my avatar again. Don't look at me like that.

EDIT 2: Now that I notice it, there is a slight problem, Kopaka- The UNA is only WW1 tech level, so your character probably shouldn't have a futuristic gun. Those are only in the hands of Extremely high-up members of the UNA (that is to say, sovice) and some of the resistance's more powerful members, since they have access to schizian technology and aren't subject to the UNA's technology restrictions.

kpenguin
2009-08-10, 07:52 PM
So, MM, how's the Secret Project and/or Montage coming along?

Kopaka
2009-08-10, 08:03 PM
EDIT 2: Now that I notice it, there is a slight problem, Kopaka- The UNA is only WW1 tech level, so your character probably shouldn't have a futuristic gun. Those are only in the hands of Extremely high-up members of the UNA (that is to say, sovice) and some of the resistance's more powerful members, since they have access to schizian technology and aren't subject to the UNA's technology restrictions.

Aw, darn. WW1 weapons are boring...well, he's definately not high up in anything, unless having a fearsome reputation qualifies, so I suppose I should fix that.

memnarch
2009-08-10, 08:05 PM
Gah, the inkscape file containing all of my templates keeps on crashing whenever I open it, but other inkscape files are fine. Suggestions?

Did you try this? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110638) The problem certainly seems similar....

Relevant post
Well... First things first...

SVG files are basic (from what I can tell) a variation of a XML file, so don't worry... If you don't have a backup and the file is really corrupted you can still open the file and copy all that has not been corrupted and save most of your work.... MOST.

But before saying that the file is corrupted I should point a direct relation that I've observed with time...
There is a direct relation beteween SVG file size and InkScape crash/bug/load problem.

Maybe you just reached a critical point on your SVG file and is time to move something to other SVG file... If that's really the case I can explain you how to do it without InkScape...

My suggestion is... First try open the file (if the file is really big) in a more powerful PC, if works there is your problem. If not you need to check the file to see if it is corrupted.. There is a way you can do this by simple opening the file with NotePad++ and double checking the beginning and ending tags. Corrupted files most of the times have wrong tags and stuff.. but that is not a rule, so if all tags are ok I suggest copying the entire XML to another empty file and saving it as a new .SVG...
If the later don't work and you REALLY don't have any backup, maybe it's time to learn a little about how the relation SVG-XML works so you can recover everything you can.

But I think the best advice I can give you is go to an InkScape forum and reporting the problem and pray for help.

Mad Mask
2009-08-10, 08:18 PM
So, MM, how's the Secret Project and/or Montage coming along?

I didn't start the montage yet, but you can still post the comics after it that you did in the mean time. That'll speed up the process.

Secret Project is coming along fine.

kpenguin
2009-08-10, 08:19 PM
I didn't start the montage yet, but you can still post the comics after it that you did in the mean time. That'll speed up the process.

Secret Project is coming along fine.

So, post the <bloop> comic now?

Squark
2009-08-10, 08:24 PM
-

Err... Should we know about this yet?

kpenguin
2009-08-10, 08:25 PM
The What? :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

I want this on record in case this wasn't ready yet!

Its ready. I'm just not sure if I should post it before MM posts his montage, which is apparently in pre-production.

Kopaka
2009-08-10, 08:39 PM
How's this for a gun? (asking for opinion, not bragging)

http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww354/carped20/Gun.png

@V Thanks!

There we go then.
http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww354/carped20/HossDestaABR-1.png

Mad Mask
2009-08-10, 08:40 PM
Its ready. I'm just not sure if I should post it before MM posts his montage, which is apparently in pre-production.

Just post it know, don't wait for me.


How's this for a gun? (asking for opinion, not bragging)

http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww354/carped20/Gun.png

It's good. :smallsmile:

kpenguin
2009-08-10, 09:30 PM
*bounces ball back into MM's court*

The dashes are to indicate separation. The first and second comics are independent from each other. The third and fourth comic are part of the same. Just a note for our archivist.

memnarch
2009-08-10, 09:31 PM
:smalleek: Cool.....


Wow. :smallcool:

kpenguin
2009-08-10, 09:34 PM
Oh, and this marks the first time I've shown Lpenguin without his hood on. I've had the template for a while, I've just never used it until now.:smalltongue:

Lemming
2009-08-10, 09:55 PM
Finally got around to reading all of the archive, and I come back to a four part comic?
What perfect timing! :smallbiggrin:

kpenguin
2009-08-10, 09:55 PM
No, you come back to three comics, one of which is two part.

Ninja Chocobo
2009-08-10, 09:59 PM
And now it's time for:
Quack Experimental Artist Ninja Chocobo
"Unk unk unk"


So, no word on this? I mean, an experiment is worthless without results.

kpenguin
2009-08-10, 10:07 PM
I hate you and your talent, NC.

Ha-ha! Reversal!:smalltongue:

SinisterPenguin
2009-08-10, 10:11 PM
*bounces ball back into MM's court*

The dashes are to indicate separation. The first and second comics are independent from each other. The third and fourth comic are part of the same. Just a note for our archivist.

Wow, those were some awesome comics. Some pretty impressive rhyming in the third to last panel, too. :smallbiggrin:

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-10, 10:20 PM
Lying is going to be seriously ticked, but fortunately his biggest gripe was the Lantern existing in the first place, given it's power base.

kpenguin
2009-08-10, 10:39 PM
Hey man, he should be happy his people live on... in a way.

The Gremlin
2009-08-10, 11:09 PM
Hey, I just thought of a reason swords are still used instead of guns: Guns are pretty pricey, having only been available to everyone for about 15 years, and the average low-level adventurer probably couldn't afford them.
Just a spontaneous realization. :smallsmile:

Fawkes
2009-08-11, 01:25 AM
KP, you are truly a master of the art.

kpenguin
2009-08-11, 01:30 AM
KP, you are truly a master of the art.

:smalleek:

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-11, 10:30 AM
Hey man, he should be happy his people live on... in a way.

Eh, in the words of the Dalek Emperor: "They survive through me"

:smalltongue:

Fay Graydon
2009-08-11, 10:36 AM
KP, you are truly a master of the art.

hehe It must be nice to get comments like that... all I get are death threats and complaints that my characters are too hard to draw XD

And nice Take on the Lantern Oath KP d^.^b
"In brightest day, in blackest night,
No evil shall escape my sight
Let those who worship evil's might,
Beware my power... Green Lantern's light!"
Still prefer that one though ^.^

DoomITP
2009-08-11, 10:41 AM
Fayte. How is the halo comic going. :smallannoyed::smalltongue:

Fay Graydon
2009-08-11, 10:43 AM
>.>
<.<
>.>
*throws smoke bomb and legs it*:smalleek:

DoomITP
2009-08-11, 10:51 AM
That is right Fayte! RUN!!! I better see a comic in the halo thread soon. :smallfurious::smalltongue:

kpenguin
2009-08-11, 04:44 PM
Eh, in the words of the Dalek Emperor: "They survive through me"

:smalltongue:

Remember Lying, you're the one who compared Lying's mentality to a Dalek, not I. I wouldn't be surprised to see him running around with a plunger yelling "EXTERMINATE" over and over again at some point.:smalltongue:


hehe It must be nice to get comments like that... all I get are death threats and complaints that my characters are too hard to draw XD

It's nice, but a bit jarring. I mean, I'm no master compared to, say, Lying or MM or 3S.

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-11, 04:57 PM
There seems to be a bit of a hierarchy of burlewan artists around here, not one tier of which considers themselves "good" :smallbiggrin:

If I was to put my mind to that hierarchy, I'd say MM, 3S, Kpen, me.

kpenguin
2009-08-11, 05:01 PM
You put MM on top? Oooooh... Rand's going to get you now...

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-11, 05:27 PM
You put MM on top? Oooooh... Rand's going to get you now...

Fortunately then, he appears to have actually left :smalltongue:

kpenguin
2009-08-11, 05:28 PM
He's just lurking... waiting for his prey to surface... :smallamused:

Ninja Chocobo
2009-08-11, 05:34 PM
"In brightest day, in blackest night,
No evil shall escape my sight
Let those who worship evil's might,
Beware my power... Green Lantern's light!"

Meowth! That's right!

kpenguin
2009-08-11, 05:36 PM
Meowth! That's right!

Woooo-bu-fet!

Squark
2009-08-11, 06:13 PM
Talia Ins
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc78/TheGreatSquark/Future%20Imperfect/Non-canon/TaliaIns.pngPresedent Talia Ins of the UNA General Assembly is, in many ways, her brother's Foil. For every social function James has showed up in Peacekeeper uniform only to dash off at the first sign of resistance activity or a crime (even jaywalking), Talia has been the gracious hostess, wearing a gown that was the talk of the UNA fashion scene for the next month, when this situation replayed itself. For every rebel James has captures, Talia has preached forgiveness. For every time James criticizes the Bureaucracy, Talia shows once again that the bureaucracy works.

Like James, Talia is a self-made woman, publicly at least. As soon as she went into a Political career, it was clear that she was a masterful politician, but at the same time a Guardian of the little guy. Talia is one of the few voices among the General Assembly who still argues for a Peaceful Solution to the problem of the ALF. Despite this somewhat unpopular stance, Talia is beloved by the general public.

In truth, Talia's public image is nothing short of a master stroke by the Grandfather. He has created the ultimate female role model; Beautiful, Intelligent, and, most importantly, loyal to the UNA. Talia is also the perfect figure to endorse various programs to better run the UNA, be it a program to encourage Marital Fidelity and Small Familys*, a renovation project for a slum,** or a new health care plan,*** Talia is the ideal way to make a slightly controversial or expensive project seem like an excellent idea.

There is one thing the Public does NOT know, however- What Talia does when the myriad of cameras are not following her. Talia is Ins's most trusted Assassin, and is responsible for the deaths of many troublesome politicians.


*Smaller numbers of subjects are easier to control
**One fewer hiding place for the resistance
***To encourage people NOT to join the resistance

NOTE: Talia is well-known for her sense of style as well as her generous donations to charity. In short, she never wears the same outfit twice. She typically wears clothes to suit the occasion. In the General Assembly, she wears fantastic, radiant dresses, but while helping with a renovation project or at a soup kitchen, she wears more utilitarian clothes. Her hairstyle is also subject to the occasion. During assassinations, however, Talia always wears a black bodysuit with a mask, and uses magic to dye her normally brown hair white.

Mad Mask
2009-08-11, 06:14 PM
@Kpenguin

So...

Who's going to draw the next Fat Fish Fury comic ? Me or you ? :smallconfused:

Anyway, your three comics were unbelievably, awe-inspiringly and wonderfully incredible. I loved them. :smallsmile:

@Squark:

Interesting, but I find that her dress is a little too bright for my taste. Maybe you could reduce the saturation a bit, to make it more pastel ? Not too much, just a little.

Squark
2009-08-11, 06:17 PM
Oh, and one other thing. MM, Squark Iota isn't on the PC list yet.

Kopaka
2009-08-11, 06:35 PM
@gremlin: Alternate reason for swords: Maybe magic disrupts guns and similar complex technology? (used in lots of stories) That would mean you can get magic swords and other "medieval" weapons, but not guns and modern tech. So, by that reasoning, an awesome magic sword would probably beat a gun. Just a thought...

@V Ah, OK then. Nevermind.

Squark
2009-08-11, 06:37 PM
Actually, its generally assumed in Avbaroy that that doesn't happen, in no small part due to the fact that magitech and actual technology coexist side by side.

Shades of Gray
2009-08-11, 07:16 PM
Okay, so I can't even open the file to save anything from it or delete anything, crashes right away.

I can open it in notepad, saving it again doesn't work. No clue how to check the tags.

memnarch
2009-08-11, 07:37 PM
Did you try this? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110638) The problem certainly seems similar....

Relevant post
Well... First things first...

SVG files are basic (from what I can tell) a variation of a XML file, so don't worry... If you don't have a backup and the file is really corrupted you can still open the file and copy all that has not been corrupted and save most of your work.... MOST.

But before saying that the file is corrupted I should point a direct relation that I've observed with time...
There is a direct relation beteween SVG file size and InkScape crash/bug/load problem.

Maybe you just reached a critical point on your SVG file and is time to move something to other SVG file... If that's really the case I can explain you how to do it without InkScape...

My suggestion is... First try open the file (if the file is really big) in a more powerful PC, if works there is your problem. If not you need to check the file to see if it is corrupted.. There is a way you can do this by simple opening the file with NotePad++ and double checking the beginning and ending tags. Corrupted files most of the times have wrong tags and stuff.. but that is not a rule, so if all tags are ok I suggest copying the entire XML to another empty file and saving it as a new .SVG...
If the later don't work and you REALLY don't have any backup, maybe it's time to learn a little about how the relation SVG-XML works so you can recover everything you can.

But I think the best advice I can give you is go to an InkScape forum and reporting the problem and pray for help.

Did you see my post Shades o' Grey?

Shades of Gray
2009-08-11, 07:39 PM
Indeed. I tried what it said, but the only thing I haven't tried is checking the tags. I dunno how they'd look even if they WERE correct. >.>

Mad Mask
2009-08-11, 07:56 PM
@gremlin: Alternate reason for swords: Maybe magic disrupts guns and similar complex technology? (used in lots of stories) That would mean you can get magic swords and other "medieval" weapons, but not guns and modern tech. So, by that reasoning, an awesome magic sword would probably beat a gun. Just a thought...

@V Ah, OK then. Nevermind.

Just to add something, guns aren't really "complex" technology, at their most basic form they are just a tube that propels bullets by making an explosion inside. Magic disrupting them doesn't make any sense.

Squark
2009-08-11, 08:10 PM
Also, because magic does not interfere with technology, the answer to magic swords and armor is simple- Magic Guns.

memnarch
2009-08-11, 08:18 PM
@Mask, interferes with the explosion, making it less effective?


Indeed. I tried what it said, but the only thing I haven't tried is checking the tags. I dunno how they'd look even if they WERE correct. >.>

Hm, ok then.

I'm bored. Could you send the svg over somehow so I could monkey with it?

Shades of Gray
2009-08-11, 08:27 PM
PM me your E-mail?

Tiffanie Lirle
2009-08-11, 08:31 PM
Also, because magic does not interfere with technology, the answer to magic swords and armor is simple- Magic Guns.
I was playing FF tactics the other day when I got that idea. I've been meaning to draw up a few concepts and seeing if they're viable.:smalltongue:

memnarch
2009-08-11, 08:33 PM
Sent over.

Squark
2009-08-11, 08:34 PM
I was playing FF tactics the other day when I got that idea. I've been meaning to draw up a few concepts and seeing if they're viable.:smalltongue:

Err... Just use magic to make it a +1 Flaming Gun?

Shades of Gray
2009-08-11, 08:34 PM
Right, it's taking forever to attach. Can I just give you the entire code I copied in notepad?

kpenguin
2009-08-11, 08:35 PM
d20 Modern has magic guns.

memnarch
2009-08-11, 08:35 PM
That might work, that might not. I'll give it a try.

Tiffanie Lirle
2009-08-11, 08:37 PM
Err... Just use magic to make it a +1 Flaming Gun?
That's too easy.

I'm trying to think of something a tad more unique.

It would probably help though if I had any understanding of the mechanics of magic and/or dnd in general. :smalltongue:

Squark
2009-08-11, 08:42 PM
This gun, perhaps? (http://www.adventurers-comic.com/d/20020613.html)

Shades of Gray
2009-08-11, 08:46 PM
My computer is unable to send attachments, it seems. And I can't Copypaste it to the message, as I checked. It's a 1195 page word document at least. It would take forever to copy and I'm pretty sure e-mails have a limit.

:smallannoyed:

Tiffanie Lirle
2009-08-11, 08:47 PM
Would it be feasible for a gun to have some sort of interchangeable attachment on the barrel that would automatically imbue a bullet passing through it with some sort of magical effect?

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-11, 08:48 PM
Just to add something, guns aren't really "complex" technology, at their most basic form they are just a tube that propels bullets by making an explosion inside. Magic disrupting them doesn't make any sense.

Actually, have you ever seen the miniseries "The Lost Room" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Room)?

Basically it's about a bunch of objects that for some reason became "magical", among them is a pair of glasses that stops forms of combustion (with some exceptions) within 20 ft., like combustion engines and firearms.

@Tiff. Remember Outlaw Star? Perhaps magical ammunition is the key.

memnarch
2009-08-11, 08:49 PM
My computer is unable to send attachments, it seems. And I can't Copypaste it to the message, as I checked. It's a 1195 page word document at least. It would take forever to copy and I'm pretty sure e-mails have a limit.

:smallannoyed:

Rapidshare or something similar?

Squark
2009-08-11, 08:51 PM
Yes, the flaming/Frost/Sonic/Corrosive/Shocking/Psychokinetic* enchantment. Sorry if that sounded sarcastic.



*So that last one's psionic. same difference.

Shades of Gray
2009-08-11, 08:53 PM
Rapidwhatnow?

Tiffanie Lirle
2009-08-11, 08:54 PM
@Tiff. Remember Outlaw Star? Perhaps magical ammunition is the key.
Was one of the first things that came to mind, but I have no idea how that would work.

memnarch
2009-08-11, 08:56 PM
http://www.rapidshare.com/

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-11, 08:58 PM
Was one of the first things that came to mind, but I have no idea how that would work.

Presumably the same way you can enchant arrows to be flaming, rather than enchanting the bow (Which, by the rules, a flaming bow is actually more expensive than 50 flaming arrows)

BRC
2009-08-11, 09:00 PM
Presumably the same way you can enchant arrows to be flaming, rather than enchanting the bow (Which, by the rules, a flaming bow is actually more expensive than 50 flaming arrows)

Well, is there a reason you couldn't enchant the guns. I imagine that many guns are enchanted, even if it's just +1 so they can get through Protection from Arrows spells. For example, most handheld automatics are probably enchanted in some way.

Shades of Gray
2009-08-11, 09:12 PM
sent it via rapidshare.

Keveak
2009-08-12, 09:10 AM
I got an idea to the gun-enchantment topic (why swords are still used)

Maybe a lot of enchantment spells are supposed to make swords sharper or arrows pointier and has thus no positive effect on guns, and/or maybe the magical energy (especially with flaming arrows spells) makes the explosives go off at the wrong time in which case doing it would be stupid.

Felyndiira
2009-08-12, 11:12 AM
I don't see a reason to ban magic enchantments on guns, admittedly. We could treat them in the same was as bow/arrow or a repeating crossbow (BAB attack, provoke AoO, and such), so they won't really be all that broken compared to a sword.

Keveak
2009-08-12, 11:21 AM
I don't see a reason to ban magic enchantments on guns, admittedly. We could treat them in the same was as bow/arrow or a repeating crossbow (BAB attack, provoke AoO, and such), so they won't really be all that broken compared to a sword.

The discussion was to find a reason why people still used swords which they didn't even when guns where even worse than these in real life, thus having the guns be able to be enchanted just as good would make the use of swords illogical, or something.

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-12, 11:36 AM
Wait...these are basically WW1 guns right?

Have we considered that they're just not as reliable as the modern guns we're all thinking of? :smallconfused:

They could jam, misfire, etc.

Tiffanie Lirle
2009-08-12, 11:43 AM
Wait...these are basically WW1 guns right?

Have we considered that they're just not as reliable as the modern guns we're all thinking of? :smallconfused:

They could jam, misfire, etc.
Weren't we going by WWII weapons?

While I can see jamming/misfires as possible, I doubt it's really something you'll have to worry about. Unless you want your weapon to jam/misfire for whatever reason. :smalltongue:

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-12, 11:52 AM
While I can see jamming/misfires as possible, I doubt it's really something you'll have to worry about. Unless you want your weapon to jam/misfire for whatever reason. :smalltongue:

We're in a world where there is a god of directing storylines.

I'd say that's a possibility.

-skimmer-
2009-08-12, 12:04 PM
The discussion was to find a reason why people still used swords which they didn't even when guns where even worse than these in real life, thus having the guns be able to be enchanted just as good would make the use of swords illogical, or something.

Well, there are dragons, magical beasts, ghosts and other supernatural creatures which just wanders around + atleast 1 of 6 mages can summon undead. Think you can destroy single skeleton before he gets you just with a gun? I don't think so.
When magic's involved, medieval weapon always comes handy:smalltongue:

Keveak
2009-08-12, 12:23 PM
Well, there are dragons, magical beasts, ghosts and other supernatural creatures which just wanders around + atleast 1 of 6 mages can summon undead. Think you can destroy single skeleton before he gets you just with a gun? I don't think so.
When magic's involved, medieval weapon always comes handy:smalltongue:

Have you considered that guns fire way longer than arrows which can hit you from 200 meters away? If the guy summons undead then I either shoot him (it could make them stop and at least cut off reinforcements) or just keep going back while shooting them one by one, a sword would put me in danger (especially since it would require training whereas a gun wouldn't) and a bow only shoot one arrow before I need to load (guns shoot far more bullets and a bow require training too) and neither of those weapons are anything worth against dragons without being magical, a gun could be used to shoot it in the eye even without magic and if it's magical then the former points are still valid.

Felyndiira
2009-08-12, 01:01 PM
Have you considered that guns fire way longer than arrows which can hit you from 200 meters away? If the guy summons undead then I either shoot him (it could make them stop and at least cut off reinforcements) or just keep going back while shooting them one by one, a sword would put me in danger (especially since it would require training whereas a gun wouldn't) and a bow only shoot one arrow before I need to load (guns shoot far more bullets and a bow require training too) and neither of those weapons are anything worth against dragons without being magical, a gun could be used to shoot it in the eye even without magic and if it's magical then the former points are still valid.

A easy solution, then, would be to outlaw lead bullets (or any of those expand with contact ones). An iron bullet, when fired, will plausibly do about as much damage as an arrow, and with people notching 3-4 arrows (manyshot and co.) per volley and hitting all of them at very good accuracy, I don't think the firing rate of the gun will be a problem. It will be, essentially, a longer range bow (with the range being questionable since most people can't hit very accurately at 200').

An iron bullet does less damage than a sword, too. Ye olde sword can hit people without too much training, and if you hit someone in the abdomen, you have a good chance of just cleaving them in half with decent arm strength (or, at least, cut a decent-sized hole). If you hit someone in the abdomen with an iron bullet, the opponent is quite likely not dead. An arrow, in comparison, can shatter and ricochet within the body, which can cause quite a bit more damage than just an entry wound.

If we're considering D&D rules, of course, that just means that the gun has the same weakness as the bow and arrow - namely, firing is a standard action, and running is a full. Thus, unless if we're all packing automatics, I fail to see the problem with handguns and co.

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-12, 01:06 PM
Or we could just go back to the D&D ruling and fair sense and say they pack swords to counter Protection from Arrows affecting them just as well.

-skimmer-
2009-08-12, 01:25 PM
Have you considered that guns fire way longer than arrows which can hit you from 200 meters away? If the guy summons undead then I either shoot him (it could make them stop and at least cut off reinforcements) or just keep going back while shooting them one by one, a sword would put me in danger (especially since it would require training whereas a gun wouldn't) and a bow only shoot one arrow before I need to load (guns shoot far more bullets and a bow require training too) and neither of those weapons are anything worth against dragons without being magical, a gun could be used to shoot it in the eye even without magic and if it's magical then the former points are still valid.

1. I guess most of fights in FI will be inside of buildings and on the streets, so range is trivial matter there...

2. I figured undead would be mainly counter attack against toxic gas which peacekeepers use to ambush resistance, which means summoner would be either hidden somewhere else or use the gas itself as cover (if used gas has some kind of color and summoner has appropriate protection, of course).
So it's unlikely you would even see his face, let alone shoot him down.

3. We're not talking about slow zombies. Faster undead minions like skeletons can run as fast as you do, they're cheap and they don't fear bullets:smallwink:

4. We're just 15 years after FFF, most of people are more familiar with swords and bows, and use of any firearm needs training too.

5. I doubt bullet in the eye can hurt a dragon...

BRC
2009-08-12, 01:25 PM
Also, they've been making magic swords and bows for X thousand years. They've had about 15 years to make magic guns, so if you're looking for magic weapons, it's much better to go with the older stuff.

Grim ranger
2009-08-12, 01:35 PM
Also, they've been making magic swords and bows for X thousand years. They've had about 15 years to make magic guns, so if you're looking for magic weapons, it's much better to go with the older stuff.

And of course, if everything else fails, the sword users can throw their weapons. Everyone knows it works 100% of the time with instant kills :smalltongue:

Keveak
2009-08-12, 01:40 PM
A easy solution, then, would be to outlaw lead bullets (or any of those expand with contact ones). An iron bullet, when fired, will plausibly do about as much damage as an arrow, and with people notching 3-4 arrows (manyshot and co.) per volley and hitting all of them at very good accuracy, I don't think the firing rate of the gun will be a problem. It will be, essentially, a longer range bow (with the range being questionable since most people can't hit very accurately at 200').

An iron bullet does less damage than a sword, too. Ye olde sword can hit people without too much training, and if you hit someone in the abdomen, you have a good chance of just cleaving them in half with decent arm strength (or, at least, cut a decent-sized hole). If you hit someone in the abdomen with an iron bullet, the opponent is quite likely not dead. An arrow, in comparison, can shatter and ricochet within the body, which can cause quite a bit more damage than just an entry wound.

The longbow shoot a maximum of 30 arrows a minute (compared to a crossbow which shoot maximum 3 bolts a minute that's fast) a gun can shoot far quicker, even a revolver could shoot several shots before a bowman can shoot one. A sword also needs to be in melee range which a gun doesn't so I bet using it ain't a good idea if you are too long away. The outlawing of lead bullets and the like is a good idea since it would make the resistance much more powerful (they don't care if it's legal) so let's stick with it :smalltongue:

And by the way, this is compared to a handgun, a riffle or the like is much more powerful and a sniper-riffle can kill you before you can see the sniper.

I just can't see guns and arrows be as good as guns in war.

EDIT:


1. I guess most of fights in FI will be inside of buildings and on the streets, so range is trivial matter there...

2. I figured undead would be mainly counter attack against toxic gas which peacekeepers use to ambush resistance, which means summoner would be either hidden somewhere else or use the gas itself as cover (if used gas has some kind of color and summoner has appropriate protection, of course).
So it's unlikely you would even see his face, let alone shoot him down.

3. We're not talking about slow zombies. Faster undead minions like skeletons can run as fast as you do, they're cheap and they don't fear bullets:smallwink:

4. We're just 15 years after FFF, most of people are more familiar with swords and bows, and use of any firearm needs training too.

5. I doubt bullet in the eye can hurt a dragon...

1. So? A gun is still better than a bow and can be used to knock down people if their swords looks too dangerous.

2. That was plan a, plan B is to blow up the place when you have the time, the gun is to get that time :smalltongue:

3. So by using a gun against them so that you can at least run a little instead of fighting close to them (bad idea if there's many of them, you can't parry all attacks you know) is bad why?

4. It still take 10 years to train using a bow, I think using a gun would be far easier for the youngest ones at least, as said it's at least as good as a bow (which also takes about 10 years to make)

5. Ever tried getting sand in your eye? Imagine that but the sand is shot at high speed into your eye. Besides what can a sword do to the dragon without magic? It's scales are supposed to be really though.

@BRC: I was arguing for that guns are best on equal terms and that we needed a way that they don't over power swords too much, people not being used to enchant guns are a good reason for that :smallsmile:

Felyndiira
2009-08-12, 02:19 PM
The longbow shoot a maximum of 30 arrows a minute (compared to a crossbow which shoot maximum 3 bolts a minute that's fast) a gun can shoot far quicker, even a revolver could shoot several shots before a bowman can shoot one. A sword also needs to be in melee range which a gun doesn't so I bet using it ain't a good idea if you are too long away. The outlawing of lead bullets and the like is a good idea since it would make the resistance much more powerful (they don't care if it's legal) so let's stick with it :smalltongue:

And by the way, this is compared to a handgun, a riffle or the like is much more powerful and a sniper-riffle can kill you before you can see the sniper.

I just can't see guns and arrows be as good as guns in war.

I thought we're using semi-D&D rules, where your number of attacks/firing rate are equal to some imaginary BAB.

Even if it isn't - a real-life longbow user can shoot an average of 30 per minute, true. However, what about the bow users with manyshot? Since fantasy heroines are quite often seen firing multiple arrows at once (with precise accuracy, too), they can plausibly fire four arrows at once and up that rate to 120 per minute while losing little accuracy.

A gun user, however, is limited to one shot per fire. Granted, there are such things as multiple-barreled guns and SMGs, but we can easily waive that by saying "those do not exist" or apply an inverse firing rate/accuracy ratio in practice. Thus, that archer firing four fiery burst arrows at once can compare quite well with that gunner shooting four bullets per two seconds with similar levels of accuracy.

A rifle is more powerful than a handgun, sure, but I haven't seen very many people that can firing it with any effectiveness while running in the opposite direction (it has a lot of recoil, after all). A sniper rifle requires precise aiming and is easy to break, which means that you're probably not going to be running around with it in open battle. Both are very situational weapons that would not be suitable for everyone's combat styles, and unless if we veer toward the automatics, neither has a very high firing rate.

And, of course, not being able to enchant guns brings up another problem - if situations requiring magical weapons (DR) comes up often, then no one that matter would invest in a gun as opposed to an enchantable bow and arrow. If situations requiring magical weapons are rare, then a gun would still be better than that +5 flaming soul-drinking bastard sword (unless if magical weapons can deflect bullets, in which case anyone that matters would have said swords and guns would become obsolete once again).

Keveak
2009-08-12, 02:39 PM
I thought we're using semi-D&D rules, where your number of attacks/firing rate are equal to some imaginary BAB.

Even if it isn't - a real-life longbow user can shoot an average of 30 per minute, true. However, what about the bow users with manyshot? Since fantasy heroines are quite often seen firing multiple arrows at once (with precise accuracy, too), they can plausibly fire four arrows at once and up that rate to 120 per minute while losing little accuracy.

A gun user, however, is limited to one shot per fire. Granted, there are such things as multiple-barreled guns and SMGs, but we can easily waive that by saying "those do not exist" or apply an inverse firing rate/accuracy ratio in practice. Thus, that archer firing four fiery burst arrows at once can compare quite well with that gunner shooting four bullets per two seconds with similar levels of accuracy.

A rifle is more powerful than a handgun, sure, but I haven't seen very many people that can firing it with any effectiveness while running in the opposite direction (it has a lot of recoil, after all). A sniper rifle requires precise aiming and is easy to break, which means that you're probably not going to be running around with it in open battle. Both are very situational weapons that would not be suitable for everyone's combat styles, and unless if we veer toward the automatics, neither has a very high firing rate.

And, of course, not being able to enchant guns brings up another problem - if situations requiring magical weapons (DR) comes up often, then no one that matter would invest in a gun as opposed to an enchantable bow and arrow. If situations requiring magical weapons are rare, then a gun would still be better than that +5 flaming soul-drinking bastard sword (unless if magical weapons can deflect bullets, in which case anyone that matters would have said swords and guns would become obsolete once again).

I didn't mean that a bow is bad just that a gun is more practical (who has the 10+ years it would take to learn that trick anyway :smalltongue:) while shooting more arrows would be better you would still have to use time to put them on the bow while a gun only after 20+ bullets needs to be loaded, and you can use two guns :smallbiggrin: (or a rocket launcher for that matter) besides shooting more than one arrow with high accuracy is unrealistic (doesn't mean we can't do it in ABR though)

You've seen people fire a riffle in combat? I don't know that much about guns but a sniper-riffle can kill from miles away, so having guns for close range and a sniper-riffle would be effective.

I don't think DR is a problem in FI (we are fighting regular humans not monsters) and even if magical weapons could reflect bullets then we again need overhuman abilities to use that (in real life you can't move that fast) and since even black-powder 17th century guns can penetrate metal armor I don't think a mook's weapon is good enough to do it anyway (so it's at least effective against them)

-skimmer-
2009-08-12, 02:45 PM
The longbow shoot a maximum of 30 arrows a minute (compared to a crossbow which shoot maximum 3 bolts a minute that's fast) a gun can shoot far quicker, even a revolver could shoot several shots before a bowman can shoot one. A sword also needs to be in melee range which a gun doesn't so I bet using it ain't a good idea if you are too long away. The outlawing of lead bullets and the like is a good idea since it would make the resistance much more powerful (they don't care if it's legal) so let's stick with it :smalltongue:

And by the way, this is compared to a handgun, a riffle or the like is much more powerful and a sniper-riffle can kill you before you can see the sniper.

I just can't see guns and arrows be as good as guns in war.

Given how many ways a mage have to outsmart bullets, I still think sword is equal to a gun there as most fights will end in close combat anyway.



EDIT:



1. So? A gun is still better than a bow and can be used to knock down people if their swords looks too dangerous.

2. That was plan a, plan B is to blow up the place when you have the time, the gun is to get that time :smalltongue:

3. So by using a gun against them so that you can at least run a little instead of fighting close to them (bad idea if there's many of them, you can't parry all attacks you know) is bad why?

4. It still take 10 years to train using a bow, I think using a gun would be far easier for the youngest ones at least, as said it's at least as good as a bow (which also takes about 10 years to make)

5. Ever tried getting sand in your eye? Imagine that but the sand is shot at high speed into your eye. Besides what can a sword do to the dragon without magic? It's scales are supposed to be really though.

@BRC: I was arguing for that guns are best on equal terms and that we needed a way that they don't over power swords too much, people not being used to enchant guns are a good reason for that :smallsmile:

1. Do I have to mention you'll need a whole factory to make bullets while arrows can be crafted from what you'll find in forest? Guns are here not even a 15 years, I doubt there's enough bullets to spare for proper practice training. So the best long range wariors are still among archers, which means they're also much more accurate at longer ranges than guns.

2. There's always enough magic to spare for few protections for arrows, then the long range combat changes into close combat massacre really fast.

3. If you're not fighter or mage then all you can do is run.....but what if somebody arms skeletons with bows, huh? I wonder if they could use guns as well.....

4. 10 years to make a bow? Isn't that.....um....too much?

5. Sneak to sleeping dragon, find a spot where two scales are connected to each other, and then push the sword in as hard as you can......if you did it right, then you killed a dragon. If not, then you're just not strong enough....

Mad Mask
2009-08-12, 02:50 PM
^Dragons in D&D don't work like that. A gun would penetrate its DR like a hot knife through butter.

Maybe the hypothetical fantasy archer can fire a lot of arrows, a gunshot is a lot more deadly than an arrow shot and has a lot more range. It's also easier to use, especially since FI-era peacekeepers were about 5 or 10 at the end of Fat Fish Fury, didn't have to live in the "sword and bow" era and subsequently could easily be trained to use guns. And most people aren't fantasy archers in Avbaroy, so the gun is the more logical choice, being more powerful, faster (2 shots/round versus 1 shot/round for the bow, D&D rules-wise), easier to use and more accurate.

There's also the fact that the ALF doesn't have access to a lot of spell-casters and treasures its remaining ones. Should one of them arrive at the scene, elite Peacekeepers with automatic rifles will be dispatched (if he's really powerful), or the regular peacekeepers will shoot grenades at him, which he has absolutely no chance of surviving.

Squark
2009-08-12, 02:55 PM
Coments on Undead vs. Guns-

Zombie headshot vulnerability aside, anything short of An Obscene amount of More Dakka (We're talking Modern Miniguns here) is not very effective against undead. You shoot a human in the arm, he's lost much of the use of that arm. You shoot a zombie in the arm, the zombie just has a bit of lead in its arm. And as for skeletons...


Its a bunch of bone, for crying out loud! With not vital tissues to damage, the only was do destroy it with a gun is to shoot it into tiny little peaces with a BFG.

Also, in WW1, melee combat was still an important part of trench warfare, even if it usually involved hitting the other guy with your shovel*.




*As All Quiet on the Western Front points out, aside from setting against a charge, a shovel is a much better weapon than a bayonet. Not only can you cut with the sharp edge, but its heavy enough to crack open someone's skull or kill a feral rat.



Ultimately, I think we should take a Star Wars: Saga Edition stance on balance here. In terms of base damage, nothing beats the 3dice damage of a blaster. Slugthrowers, Sonic Weapons,** suitibly enhance melee weapons, and lightsabers deal 2 dice of damage, and more primitive weapons, like unenhanced swords, maces, batons, etc. do 1 dice of damage. The catch is this- Yes, a lightsaber or a vibroblade does less BASE damage than a blaster, but a melee fighter can make up for that with his strength bonus and various abilities that make melee combat the equal of ranged combat.



**Sonic weapons are useful in that lightsabers can't deflect them

Mad Mask
2009-08-12, 02:58 PM
Although FI has roughly World War I tech, it does not have trenches and other World War I settings, since there is no big war between nations with a lot of soldiers and weapons. It's more urban/guerilla warfare.

EDIT: A grenade or a rocket will take care of the skeleton rather easily. Let's not forget that the Peacekeepers have more than just rifles and revolvers.

Threeshades
2009-08-12, 03:12 PM
Although FI has roughly World War I tech, it does not have trenches and other World War I settings, since there is no big war between nations with a lot of soldiers and weapons. It's more urban/guerilla warfare.

EDIT: A grenade or a rocket will take care of the skeleton rather easily. Let's not forget that the Peacekeepers have more than just rifles and revolvers.

But grenades and rockets are at least to my knowledge a bit to expensive and heavy to carry to just carry them around as your standard defense against a Lich's army.

Squark
2009-08-12, 03:12 PM
True. Also, cramped quarters are not good places to use explosives, unless you want to be covered in ceiling.

EDIT: Also, considering both sides do have access to magic, carrying explosives would be a bad idea, since I'm pretty sure fireballing someone carrying grenades would trigger a chain reaction...

Also, when you think about it, a frag grenade isn't all that useful against the aforementioned skeleton.

Mad Mask
2009-08-12, 03:21 PM
But grenades and rockets are at least to my knowledge a bit to expensive and heavy to carry to just carry them around as your standard defense against a Lich's army.

Armies of undead (and even lone ones) aren't exactly common in Avbaroy, even in FFF-era. If that threat did come up the UNA would either carpet-bomb them, use tanks or use Sovice units.

EDIT: ^ Grenade may accomplish the same things and have a superior blast radius.

And concussion grenades are both great in enclosed spaces and deliver the same through explosive power alone, making them useful against skeletons.

-skimmer-
2009-08-12, 03:22 PM
There's also the fact that the ALF doesn't have access to a lot of spell-casters and treasures its remaining ones. Should one of them arrive at the scene, elite Peacekeepers with automatic rifles will be dispatched (if he's really powerful), or the regular peacekeepers will shoot grenades at him, which he has absolutely no chance of surviving.

Actually, gaseous form's like 3rd level spell and it should be enough to survive this kind of explosions.....
(Yes, it's one of Becalels core spells:smalltongue:)




EDIT: A grenade or a rocket will take care of the skeleton rather easily. Let's not forget that the Peacekeepers have more than just rifles and revolvers.

Ah yes, that's why they should operate under smokescreen or poison gas as they really need eyes to see (atleast skeletons I know don't have to see), and in the best scenario buried under ground to avoid explosions until someone steps on them. That should counter attack rocket launchers very well.

Squark
2009-08-12, 03:24 PM
But what if it were in a civillian area, or by something that would make a much bigger explosion if carpet bombed? Say, an oil refinery, or a proto-gas station (such things did exist as early as the 1910's)

Lyinginbedmon
2009-08-12, 03:26 PM
Armies of undead (and even lone ones) aren't exactly common in Avbaroy, even in FFF-era. If that threat did come up the UNA would either carpet-bomb them, use tanks or use Sovice units.

I can name a certain Necromancess that may have a problem with that.

And whilst she's not exactly one for serious strategising, she does know how to best use undead against a given target.

Threeshades
2009-08-12, 03:27 PM
But what if it were in a civillian area, or by something that would make a much bigger explosion if carpet bombed? Say, an oil refinery, or a proto-gas station (such things did exist as early as the 1910's)

i imagine the sovice to have about the same compassion for their citizens as the combine.

Squark
2009-08-12, 03:32 PM
The UNA can't actually rely on Sovice units, now that I think of it. If they get used very often, or even in any sort of public situation, it could start people asking why the sovice aren't doing the policework.

Also, WWI era tanks did have a lot of design flaws, which a cunning necromancer could exploit.


For that matter, a WWI tank wouldn't stand up to a fireball. The thinks were so hot that entire crews were fainting to begin with, and a fireball would probably turn the thing into a kiln.


i imagine the sovice to have about the same compassion for their citizens as the combine.

Yes, but its hard to play the good guy when you just bombed a heavily populated area of your own nation. And the Sovice are trying to appear the good guy, after all.

SinisterPenguin
2009-08-12, 03:33 PM
i imagine the sovice to have about the same compassion for their citizens as the combine.

Even if that's true, it would still tarnish their public image hugely if they killed a large amount of civilians in a bombing (even if it did successfully destroy the undead army), which would be a boon to the resistance.

-skimmer-
2009-08-12, 03:42 PM
Yes, but its hard to play the good guy when you just bombed a heavily populated area of your own nation. And the Sovice are trying to appear the good guy, after all.



Even if that's true, it would still tarnish their public image hugely if they killed a large amount of civilians in a bombing (even if it did successfully destroy the undead army), which would be a boon to the resistance.


UNA can always say "Resistance did it", and remain good:smalltongue:

Keveak
2009-08-12, 03:42 PM
Coments on Undead vs. Guns-

Zombie headshot vulnerability aside, anything short of An Obscene amount of More Dakka (We're talking Modern Miniguns here) is not very effective against undead. You shoot a human in the arm, he's lost much of the use of that arm. You shoot a zombie in the arm, the zombie just has a bit of lead in its arm. And as for skeletons...


Its a bunch of bone, for crying out loud! With not vital tissues to damage, the only was do destroy it with a gun is to shoot it into tiny little peaces with a BFG.

Also, in WW1, melee combat was still an important part of trench warfare, even if it usually involved hitting the other guy with your shovel*.




*As All Quiet on the Western Front points out, aside from setting against a charge, a shovel is a much better weapon than a bayonet. Not only can you cut with the sharp edge, but its heavy enough to crack open someone's skull or kill a feral rat.

Myth Busters tested a civil-war riffle, it penetrated a leg (ballistic gel AND bone) flew 100+ meters and stopped half a meter into a blob of ballistic gel, now WW1 weapons are far more powerful so blasting the head of a skeleton shouldn't be a problem (or in case you just need to flee, it's legs) nor a zombie's head for that matter.

@Squark: That's the dilemma of the cold war, if you fired your nuke it would start a chain-reaction that'll destroy civilisation, though I don't it will be that big chain-reactions in FI.

@-Skimmer-: None of the sides uses that much necromancy you know (the UNa would get unpopular by doing it and the resistance is a very mixed group)

PS: Actually making a longbow (best ranged weapon of the middle ages) takes about 20 years but since they weren't all made at once it just meant there weren't that many at a time (they had a lot of people make them), I read an article on it and no you can't make arrows in a forest, the wood needs to be straight unless you want to hit something miles away from where you are aiming and without a well made metal arrowhead you can't use it for much more than hunting anyway, It's a very good weapon and the reason England could defeat France back then but compared to guns it's just not worth the effort (especially not in real life where arrows could be stopped by a plate mail while an armor thick enough to deflect bullets was to heavy to wear) so why don't we say that there are ups and downs for both but guns are easier for large groups (whereas a single adventurer probably has the time to train with the bow and the money to buy one, a large group most likely doesn't) and especially people like ALF.

SinisterPenguin
2009-08-12, 03:44 PM
UNA can always say "Resistance did it", and remain good:smalltongue:

I doubt that would be a very good excuse, considering that the ALF doesn't actually have the power to carpet bomb an area.

At least I don't think it does, anyway.

Squark
2009-08-12, 03:45 PM
Myth Busters tested a civil-war riffle, it penetrated a leg (ballistic gel AND bone) flew 100+ meters and stopped half a meter into a blob of ballistic gel, now WW1 weapons are far more powerful so blasting the head of a skeleton shouldn't be a problem (or in case you just need to flee, it's legs) nor a zombie's head for that matter.

Yes, but a head is not exactly essential to a skeletons existance, is it?


IT'S a BUNCH OF BONES! as I've said before. Why should shooting the head off do anything at all to it other than deprive it of the ability to bite your hand?

A similar line of thought is present with a zombie. There is no real reason a zombie needs its head, after all.


I doubt that would be a very good excuse, considering that the ALF doesn't actually have the power to carpet bomb an area.

At least I don't think it does, anyway.

But they can SAY that the resistance does have that ability. Although since it would likely be a resistance-based operation (remember, there are numerous resistance groups), it'd still be a lousy excuse