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Shotaro
2006-08-01, 12:46 PM
just hopped through the news on aintitcool.com and saw that they have announced the title of the new batman film

The Dark Knight

Personally i love it, its a great way of acknowledging the influence Frank Miller has had on the universe as well as being the most fitting title for the tone of the world Nolan has created.

Also Heath Ledger has been confirmed as the Joker, I've got to admit im a little weary of this casting choice but at the same time, I trust Nolan as a director and think he must see something in Ledger that isn't immediately obvious.

Alchemistmerlin
2006-08-01, 12:48 PM
Damn, I was really hoping for Paul Rueben as the Joker.


Not that I think he would make a good Joker, but that I think him playing the joker would make for the worst Batman movie EVER, and that it would be a spectacular blaze of hilarity.

Shotaro
2006-08-01, 12:52 PM
i just watch anything with adam west in for that particular level of hilarity

if you've ever seen the episode where they go to londinium (yes thats right, londinium) there is an African Killer Death Bee Queen that looks like a sock with a yellow stripe painted on, complete with pipecleaner nose AND sting and googly eyes...

ill try to find a picture because as bad as my description sounds it doesn't do it justice.

Caillach
2006-08-01, 01:43 PM
Heath Ledger? hmm. I am suprised by the choice but not dissapointed. Ledger is a great actor, capable of playing many different characters, and I can't see him takeing the Joker too far overboard. Huh. The more i think about it the more I like it. (plus Heath is a hunk, but I'm sure you didn't need me to say that ;))
I hope that Website's right!

WampaX
2006-08-01, 02:23 PM
Heath Ledger? hmm. I am suprised by the choice but not dissapointed. Ledger is a great actor, capable of playing many different characters, and I can't see him takeing the Joker too far overboard. Huh. The more i think about it the more I like it. (plus Heath is a hunk, but I'm sure you didn't need me to say that ;))
I hope that Website's right!

If he does the part as much justice as Jack Nicholson and Mark Hamill have done, I'll be very, very happy. Heck, if he can pull of 1/4 of what Hamill has doen for the character in my mind, I'll be happy. ;D

Alchemistmerlin
2006-08-01, 03:08 PM
I really didn't like Nicholson's Joker, I know people are going to HATE me for that, but I honestly think his Joker was too mobster and not enough evil psychotic clown.


Hamill's Joker in TAS wins tons of internet gold.

WampaX
2006-08-01, 03:25 PM
I really didn't like Nicholson's Joker, I know people are going to HATE me for that, but I honestly think his Joker was too mobster and not enough evil psychotic clown. I always looked at it as his origin, coming to terms with his newfound view of life. He started out as a mobster and that is what he knows. Throughout the course of the film, he becomes more and more unhinged, slowly acclimating himself to his madness. So by the end, we are almost to the Joker we've come to know, hate, and love.

Alchemistmerlin
2006-08-01, 04:40 PM
That's the other thing, I prefer the other origins that have been presented elsewhere. So my bias is showing a bit.

I like the idea that the Joker is SO crazy that even HE doesn't know his own origin, which is why it's not really definitive in the comics.

WampaX
2006-08-01, 05:10 PM
That's the other thing, I prefer the other origins that have been presented elsewhere. So my bias is showing a bit.

I like the idea that the Joker is SO crazy that even HE doesn't know his own origin, which is why it's not really definitive in the comics.

The comic's origin is pretty much what's in The Killing Joke, from what I understand.

I'd be curious to know if there are any other stories written just after the accident that made him the Joker. The 1989 movie is one of the few places that I know this portion of the character's life is examined.

Holy_Knight
2006-08-01, 05:15 PM
Damn, I was really hoping for Paul Rueben as the Joker.


Not that I think he would make a good Joker, but that I think him playing the joker would make for the worst Batman movie EVER, and that it would be a spectacular blaze of hilarity.

For God's sake, as if Batman and Robin wasn't bad enough. *For eight YEARS we had to put up with that being the last "Batman" movie! *

Honestly... * >:( >:( >:(


I really didn't like Nicholson's Joker, *I know people are going to HATE me for that, but I honestly think his Joker was too mobster and not enough evil psychotic clown.

Actually, I agree with you here. *I also agree that Hamill's Joker was excellent.

Joosbawx
2006-08-01, 05:35 PM
When I heard that Heath Ledger was offered the part, I was wary, but as I reexamine it over that last week or so, I'm anxiou (in a good way) to see what he'll do with it.

Of course, I was also wary of Christian Bale playing one of my most beloved of superheroes...I mean seriously, the guy from American Psycho...really? Well, I was happy to see I was dead wrong, and I thought he did an excellent job as Batman, and Bruce Wayne. Glad they didn't grab another Clooney to play the Caped Crusader just because he'd be a box office draw.

Also, Morgan Freeman was awesome, but then again, when hasn't he been awesome?

The only person that I thought of when I was trying to think of who I would personally cast as the Joker was Mark Hamill. Since he's been inside that character's head for so long, it'd be amazing to see him playing it out in person, but cest la vie.

What I really want to see is what they'll do with the whole Robin/Nightwing, etc. However, chances are that the series will go to three movies and then be done, or get ruined by someone not nearly as careful as the current director and writers have been.

Interesting side note: with all the DC hero movies coming up (Wonder Woman, rumblings of Green Lantern, Superman) do you think that a Justice League movie would be over the top, or following in the footsteps of X-Men, or something you'd look forward to watching?

Caillach
2006-08-01, 06:03 PM
Interesting side note: with all the DC hero movies coming up (Wonder Woman, rumblings of Green Lantern, Superman) do you think that a Justice League movie would be over the top, or following in the footsteps of X-Men, or something you'd look forward to watching?


NO JUSTICE LEAGUE MOVIE! God help us if they make one. What a royal mess that would be.

Alchemistmerlin
2006-08-01, 07:30 PM
The reason Hamill can't do the Joker in this movie is because he's a TERRIBLE actor.

No, seriously, he does voice acting wonderfully, but if you see him in anything outside Star Wars he does a miserable job in live action. Watch the episode of the muppet show that has him in it, you'll risk vomitting everywhere.

Joosbawx
2006-08-02, 09:35 AM
In reply to Caillach: See...that's what I thought about an X-Men movie at first, too. I completely agree that they'd probably mess it up in more ways than we can imagine...however, I don't think that if they made it I could stop myself from going to see it. I think they have the technology to make a good viewing of the movie...but I think that it would absolutely lose something in the translation.

In reply to Alchemistmerlin: I agree with you. I have seen better actors in communicty theatre; however, with a character like The Joker you can really let go. I'd just miss the voice, and I'm concerned that our beloved prince of mayhem will end up having that quiet, mumbled aussie accent of Ledger's...or the stiff lipped accent he used in Brokeback Mountain.

Zophiel
2006-08-02, 09:48 AM
For God's sake, as if Batman and Robin wasn't bad enough. *For eight YEARS we had to put up with that being the last "Batman" movie! *


Actually, Batman Begins (http://imdb.com/title/tt0372784/) was the most recent Batman movie, to which The Dark Knight is allegedly being billed as a sequel. Personally, I thought Christian Bale did an excellent job as both Batman and Bruce Wayne, and I can't wait to see a follow-up of this very commendable film. For several people I know, myself included, Batman Begins restored our long-lost faith in the whole Batman-on-the-big-screen franchise.

In re: Heath Ledger as the Joker, I'm cautiously optimistic. I've enjoyed his acting in everything I've seen him do thus far, but this is considerably outside of his body of work, insofar as I am familiar with it. However, people also claimed that Michael Keaton couldn't pull off Batman successfully, and that criticism is generally considered to have been soundly rebuked. Although Keaton was only arguably successful in pulling off the dichotomy of Wayne/Batman, his performance did not negatively impact the film's overall success, as evidenced by the variety of awards it won or for which it was nominated (http://imdb.com/title/tt0096895/awards).

Alchemistmerlin
2006-08-02, 10:23 AM
or the stiff lipped accent he used in Brokeback Mountain.


Bwaaaaahahaha

I'm sorry...you just made me laugh out loud in the jury waiting room (I'm on jury duty today).

The idea of Batman punching the Joker in the face, and the Joker responding with "I wish I knew how t' quit you" AHAHA.

kriklaf
2006-08-02, 01:11 PM
Anybody else think that this is an unneccesary rehash of a story that has already moved from comics to cheesy live-action tv series to cartoons to a RECENT! film? Don't get me wrong--I hated all the Batman movies prior to Batman Begins, which I really enjoyed, and so I'm not totally opposed to the idea of a version I'll probably like--but does the world really need a new Batman and The Joker movie? It just strikes me as curious, especially since the original (or at least the ones from the 90s--for all I know, there are some other, even older movie versions) movies were pretty popular.

Joosbawx
2006-08-02, 02:41 PM
If that's what it turns out to be...a shameless effects and action movie...then I could not agree with you more, Kriklaf. However, I really like what they're doing with the DC universe right now with the Superman and Batman stories by taking a step back and then putting you into the perspective of the hero, instead of just throwing special effects (Superman) or camp (Batman) at you.

Case in point: I was hopping mad when I heard that Arnold was going to play Dr. Freeze. He's one of my favorite villians, and a wonderful bookend to Bruce Wayne in that they've suffered very, very simmiliar tragedies int heir lives, but chosen very different paths. Instead, they threw an actor in there with the emotional range of my chia pet so spit one liners that you could see coming from the pop-corn line outside the theatre.

I digress...however, as Zophiel put it, I am cautiously optimistic and very, very hopeful. Though I'd still say let Hamill take a crack at it. =P

WampaX
2006-08-02, 02:48 PM
Anybody else think that this is an unneccesary rehash of a story that has already moved from comics to cheesy live-action tv series to cartoons to a RECENT! film? Don't get me wrong--I hated all the Batman movies prior to Batman Begins, which I really enjoyed, and so I'm not totally opposed to the idea of a version I'll probably like--but does the world really need a new Batman and The Joker movie? It just strikes me as curious, especially since the original (or at least the ones from the 90s--for all I know, there are some other, even older movie versions) movies were pretty popular.


Money.
The Joker has brand recognition up the wazoo. You ask joe blo and his girl who Batman's biggest foe is and they will most likely answer the Joker. If the first one did pretty good with the relative unknowns Ra's Al'Ghul and the Scarecrow, think of what its sequel will do with the Joker.

I wish they had done that with Superman Returns. Thrown some relative unknows out there for the public to digest and become re-aclimated to the character, and THEN kick back in with a Lex story. But they went with the "sure thing" and secured a sequal possibly not on the merits of the characters, but on Box office reciets.

Joosbawx
2006-08-02, 03:04 PM
I agree 100% with you, WampaX; and I just read a really interesting little blurb in EW about that very topic.

Unfortunately, those of us that are fans of something before itmakes it to the theatres...take the Bourne trilogy, for example...we have to be willing to put up with some changes in order for mass appeal so that they can afford to make the next movie and expect to make a little money on it.

Zophiel
2006-08-02, 03:08 PM
Additionally, the end of Batman Returns makes blatant reference to the Joker as the next costumed crazy person to be wreaking havoc on Gotham. In light of that bit of foreshadowing at the end of the first movie (of this current incarnation of big-screen Batman), the fans of that movie would quite likely be disappointed had a different villain been introduced. I know I would have. As phenomenally as Batman Returns restored my faith in the Caped Crusader as a movie franchise, I was actually very excited by that ending scene's insinuation of a sequel featuring the quintessential Batman villain.

WampaX
2006-08-02, 03:19 PM
Additionally, the end of Batman Returns makes blatant reference to the Joker as the next costumed crazy person to be wreaking havoc on Gotham. In light of that bit of foreshadowing at the end of the first movie (of this current incarnation of big-screen Batman), the fans of that movie would quite likely be disappointed had a different villain been introduced. I know I would have. As phenomenally as Batman Returns restored my faith in the Caped Crusader as a movie franchise, I was actually very excited by that ending scene's insinuation of a sequel featuring the quintessential Batman villain.

It will be interesting to see how or even if they deal with the Joker's origin. If they go with the currently accepted origin, they will need to do a little shoehorning to fit it within the framework of Batman Begins. If they do something new . . . well, we'll have to wait and see. Batman's actions are why the Joker exists and losing that connection between the characters would be a great loss to their dynamic.

Zophiel
2006-08-02, 04:36 PM
It will be interesting to see how or even if they deal with the Joker's origin. If they go with the currently accepted origin, they will need to do a little shoehorning to fit it within the framework of Batman Begins. If they do something new . . . well, we'll have to wait and see. Batman's actions are why the Joker exists and losing that connection between the characters would be a great loss to their dynamic.

It is a bit of a pickle, I agree. Admittedly, though, I didn't know that Joker having been created as a result of Batman's actions was part of the original comic canon. I was actually only mildly interested in Batman until Tim Burton's Batman hit the big screen, and it never occurred to me to look into how close to the comics it was. In light of that, explaining Joker's origin in the current movie franchise could get tricky. Of course, I think there is a pretty good amount of time that passes in Batman Returns between Batman's emergence in Gotham and when Ra's and Scarecrow's evil scheme comes to light. Like you said, it would take some shoehorning, but they could plausibly fit Joker's origins in to that time period and use a flashback as Batman recalls that previous fight - perhaps toward the middle of the movie when he realizes who the Joker is. I'm not a huge fan of the flashback as a dramatic device, but used well it can be an effective tool.

Then again, the Joker might have been an Arkham inmate who got released and subjected to the gas. Batman's part in Joker's origin would have been less direct, but it could still be interesting if in the Arkham scene he had a clear choice between saving the girl and stopping the bad guys. Unfortunately I can't recall if the scene played out in a manner that presented such a choice, since I haven't seen it in quite a few months.

Regardless, I really hope they don't write that character dynamic out of the story. One of my favorite scenes from the Burton Batman was in the final battle, when Joker said, "You made me," to which Batman replied, "You made me first." Or something along those lines. :)

Joosbawx
2006-08-02, 05:17 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing a complete severence from the first run of BatMan films and this new run. They're a completely different style, kind of like the comics have been since the beginning.

It'd be akin to comparing the Adam West tv series to the Keaton BatMan portrayal.

Jarl
2006-08-02, 05:44 PM
The Joker doesn't even know his real origins. He's told so many stories about it that he doesn't know which one's real. The exaggerated link between him and Batman in the first Burton movie really fit, though, I feel. Admittedly, since Joe Chill was already in the series in this one, they can't say that the Joker killed Bruce's parents instead.

-I need a comic book nerd to tell me, does the "Dance with the devil" line appear in the comics, or just the movie? Because that's a really nice line, but it doesn't seem to fit with the Joker.

ElfLad
2006-08-02, 05:54 PM
You ask joe blo and his girl who Batman's biggest foe is and they will most likely answer the Joker.


I actually would have said Catwoman before I started reading the comics. I'd like to see Catwoman in this one so they could introduce the Bruce/Selina dynamic next movie.

SumGuy
2006-08-03, 02:20 AM
My first thoughts of the next movie, once I heard about Mr. Ledger's casting:

Brokeback Batman?

Shotaro
2006-08-03, 07:46 AM
lol

brokebat mountin'

wonder what woulda happenned if he'd been in batman and robin, with the nipples on the suit.........

slapdash
2006-08-03, 08:49 AM
Wow, it's only been a couple days since this information was released, and I'm already sick of the 'Brokeback' jokes.

Hmm, I wonder if it could be because those jokes stopped being funny three months ago?

I kinda wish it was an American. Bale didn't do bad with the voice (although his deep 'Batman' voice he used while wearing the mask made me crack up); wish it was better. Hopefully he'll improve this movie, and Heath will do better than he did in Brokeback. * :-/

Holy_Knight
2006-08-04, 04:53 AM
Actually, Batman Begins (http://imdb.com/title/tt0372784/) was the most recent Batman movie, to which The Dark Knight is allegedly being billed as a sequel. Personally, I thought Christian Bale did an excellent job as both Batman and Bruce Wayne, and I can't wait to see a follow-up of this very commendable film. For several people I know, myself included, Batman Begins restored our long-lost faith in the whole Batman-on-the-big-screen franchise.
Um... yeah, I know. Batman Begins came out in 2005, and Batman and Robin came out in 1997, which is why I said that we had to spend eight years with Batman and Robin having been the last Batman movie. Believe me, I'm well aware of everything you said, having seen Batman Begins nine times and being possibly the biggest Batman fan on the boards.




-I need a comic book nerd to tell me, does the "Dance with the devil" line appear in the comics, or just the movie? Because that's a really nice line, but it doesn't seem to fit with the Joker.
No, that was completely and inexplicably made up for the movie, which was a silly hollywood decision having nothing to do with the comics. The Joker did not kill Batman's parents.

Ebon_Drake
2006-08-04, 08:22 AM
Brokeback Batman?
They'll save that for the Bane film :P.

Heath Ledger? I don't think I've ever seen anything with him in it. After googling some pictures of him I'm not sure that he looks right for the part, but then I'd probably have said the same about Jack Nicholson.

Shotaro
2006-08-05, 08:46 PM
They'll save that for the Bane film :P.

OUCH, on so many different levels, plus the horrible mental image that conjours up........
:-/ I liked the whole batman broke his spine storyline, but i wouldn't like to see it in a film.=

ElfLad
2006-08-06, 12:45 AM
They'll save that for the Bane film :P.

Are we talking about Batman & Robin, or some speculative future film where his character isn't bastardized beyond recognition?

And Harley Quinn wishes she knew how to quit Mr. J.

Logic
2006-08-06, 01:12 AM
Are we talking about Batman & Robin, or some speculative future film where his character isn't bastardized beyond recognition?

And Harley Quinn wishes she knew how to quit Mr. J.

Harley Quinn is my favorite female comic character (i know she originated in the animated series) of all time, and i dont think she should be in the next movie.
And she has quit Mr. J, at least temporarily, and gotton support from that Poison Ivy character.

Beleriphon
2006-08-06, 01:22 AM
Harley Quinn is my favorite female comic character (i know she originated in the animated series) of all time, and i dont think she should be in the next movie.
And she has quit Mr. J, at least temporarily, and gotton support from that Poison Ivy character.

You have no idea how funny that is given the Brokeback discussion.

Logic
2006-08-06, 02:11 AM
You have no idea how funny that is given the Brokeback discussion.

actually, i do know. But the suggestions that Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn were more than friends makes it just a little bit funnier.

Joosbawx
2006-08-07, 02:56 PM
The Batman Animated Series episode where Harley and Poison Ivy teamed up with...I can't remember the third villianess...was one of the most entertaining of the series. Better even for the Thelma & Louise nod wit them racing around in a blue convertible.

Just an aside.

Beleriphon
2006-08-07, 03:48 PM
actually, i do know. But the suggestions that Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn were more than friends makes it just a little bit funnier.


Excellent *taps fingers together*. Of course its nothing more than supposition, but its still really funny.

Eldred
2006-08-08, 01:04 PM
Regarding possible storylines in the film, does anyone think there's a chance the Bruce/Rachel storyline will continue?

Joosbawx
2006-08-08, 02:06 PM
For the love interest question about Bruce/Rachel...I think that it'll continue, yes. WHo knows what they'll do with it, however. With the movies, you never know how close to canon the writers will stick. Who knows...maybe she'll become BatGirl or something.

Caillach
2006-08-08, 11:10 PM
Nope. I think they're gone.

I liked that romance, it was nice to have something different and unexpected, but she made it clear that she thinks they should stay "just friends" so I don't think it'll be showing up again.

Alchemistmerlin
2006-08-09, 12:12 AM
Excellent *taps fingers together*. Of course its nothing more than supposition, but its still really funny.


Read the Harvey and Ivy comics.

It's more than supposition.

Beleriphon
2006-08-09, 02:51 AM
Read the Harvey and Ivy comics.

It's more than supposition.


Well then. Things to find, things to find.

Holy_Knight
2006-08-09, 06:44 AM
Read the Harvey and Ivy comics.

It's more than supposition.
You mean Harley and Ivy. But actually that's a funny typo, since Harvey and Ivy did date for a while, at least in the Animated Series.

Joosbawx
2006-08-09, 09:39 AM
Forgive me, because this is slightly out of topic, but I'm not going to start a new thread over something so innoculous. It is Batman related.

I was shopping for my godson's birthday last night, and I finished picking out what I wanted to get him, then walked down the Lego isle to see what was new. I still have a boatload of Legos from when I was "young" enough to play with them...according to the boxes anyway...

THEY MAKE BATMAN LEGOS NOW!!!

Complete with villians, et al! I couldn't believe it, I was floored! Lego Joker and Robin and Penguin(!), and Two-Face, and Dr. Freeze, and CatWoman, and thye all have henchmen, too! It was freakin' awesome!!!

Anyhoo, for fans, there are about 5-6 sets that the store I was at had...I think these are better than the Star Wars Legos.