[3.5e] Rebalancing classes - buff affinity

[SinsI]

Having been on the recieving end of many, many spells, Fighters begin to know them intimately and learn how to utilize their positive effects better and how to evade the negative ones.
Wizards are not very apt at applying their spells to themselves (it's like a surgeon performing an operation on himself) and their precise magic suffers from interference of any buffs he already has.

Game-wise, Fighters get a (fighter level/4, rounded down) adjustment to the casting level of whatever spells affect them or their equipment. They can use it to increase the positive effects or decrease the negative effects; 4th level fighter can completely shrug off a magic missile spell cast by a 1st level wizard.
They can also get several new "sub-metamagic" feats - "Empower buff", "Extend Buff", "Highten buff", "Maximize buff"; those can also be used in reverse - "Weaken debuff", "Shorten Debuff", "Lesser debuff","Minimize debuff". To use these feats, you must succeed in an associated skill check. You can activate as many of them as you want as long as you continue to succeed in those skill checks; each additional activated feat affecting one single spell gets a cumulative +5 to DC. (so first feat is +0, second feat is +5, 3rd feat is +10...).

If a Wizard is casting a spell on himself, he must make a Concentration check. That spell gets 1 less caster level for each point he has failed; if the caster level is 0 the spell fails.
Each nonpermanent spell affecting the Wizard or his items gives him an additional -2 penalty on Concentration checks(he knows how to adapt to stable magic).

Of course, you can replace Fighters and Wizards with other melee/spellcasting classes of your choice.

What do you think of this idea?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Interesting take on the "the best buffs are self-only, so why buff the fighter?" issue. I like it. A few points:


Game-wise, Fighters get a (fighter level/4, rounded down) adjustment to the casting level of whatever spells affect them or their equipment.

Do you mean Fighter-fighters, or all martial classes? You mention later that you could expand this beyond fighter and wizard, but I'm not sure whether this is intended as a martial/caster thing in general or whether you intended to adjust the fighter and wizard specifically. I could see this working quite well on a barbarian, for instance, given that the original barbarian distrusted magic.


They can use it to increase the positive effects or decrease the negative effects; 4th level fighter can completely shrug off a magic missile spell cast by a 1st level wizard.

I assume by this you mean a spell with a CL of 0 is negated; otherwise, magic missiles aren't CL based except for the number of missiles fired, so when that single 1d4+1 missile at CL 1 hits you, changing it to CL 0 wouldn't decrease its effects.


They can also get several new "sub-metamagic" feats - "Empower buff", "Extend Buff", "Highten buff", "Maximize buff"; those can also be used in reverse - "Weaken debuff", "Shorten Debuff", "Lesser debuff","Minimize debuff". To use these feats, you must succeed in an associated skill check. You can activate as many of them as you want as long as you continue to succeed those skill checks; each additional activated feat affecting one single spell gets a cumulative +5 to DC. (so first feat is +0, second feat is +5, 3rd feat is +10...).

1) Which skill? Spellcraft? Concentration? Kn: Arcana?

2) What action does the check take? I assume a free action as part of being affected by the spell, but a move or standard action could make sense too.

3) Is it one check per spell or one per feat used (i.e., would adding three require 3 checks at DC X, X+5, and X+10, or one at DC X+10)?


If a Wizard is casting a spell on himself, he must make a Concentration check. That spell gets 1 less caster level for each point he has failed; if the caster level is 0 the spell fails.
Each nonpermanent spell affecting the Wizard or his items gives him an additional -2 penalty on Concentration checks(he knows how to adapt to stable magic).

What's the DC? You can't fail a check if there's no DC to check against. :smallwink:

[SinsI]

This is just a rough idea for now - I haven't decided on most of the things you've mentioned. Any suggestions are welcome

Do you mean Fighter-fighters, or all martial classes? You mention later that you could expand this beyond fighter and wizard, but I'm not sure whether this is intended as a martial/caster thing in general or whether you intended to adjust the fighter and wizard specifically. I could see this working quite well on a barbarian, for instance, given that the original barbarian distrusted magic.
Fighter and Wizard are just an example of how this might work. You can use a Barbarian and Sorcerer, or even move most of these abilities into a new PrC.


I assume by this you mean a spell with a CL of 0 is negated; otherwise, magic missiles aren't CL based except for the number of missiles fired, so when that single 1d4+1 missile at CL 1 hits you, changing it to CL 0 wouldn't decrease its effects.
Yeah, CL0 "hasn't been cast".


1) Which skill? Spellcraft? Concentration? Kn: Arcana?

2) What action does the check take? I assume a free action as part of being affected by the spell, but a move or standard action could make sense too.

3) Is it one check per spell or one per feat used (i.e., would adding three require 3 checks at DC X, X+5, and X+10, or one at DC X+10)?


4)What's the DC? You can't fail a check if there's no DC to check against. :smallwink:
Haven't decided on most of those yet.
1) preferably something that is not a cross-class skill. Maybe different feats depend on different skills.
Or a new Con-dependent skill (you learn those things with your body)
Or maybe use a Fort save.
2) free action - as part of being affected by the spell.
3) One per feat used, but combining into one at DC X+10 makes sense too, and reduces the amount of rolls.

4) Hmm... At 1st level first self buff should have a 5% probability of losing a level if you have no Concentration penalty, no ability adjustment and fully invested in this skill. 1d20 +4 gives such a failure rate for a DC 6.
A DC of 5 + spell level. Oh, and no automatic failure or success on 1 and 20 for this check.

[AstralFire]

A spell cannot be cast below the minimum CL needed for a person of that class to gain spells of that level, typically speaking, so dropping Fireball below CL 5 for Wizards or 6 for Sorcs would end that.

No thoughts on the mechanic itself at this time, just supplying information.

[Roderick_BR]

Could work well as fighter feats.
Something like "battle magic resistence. Req: Being targeted by an offensive spell from an enemy caster. Benefits: Any offensive spell that targets you has it's CL reduced in <some value> for purposes of calculating the effects on you, to a minimum CL needed to cast it".
Meaning that a 10th CL fireball, would, instead of 10d6 damage, would deal less damage.
"Battle boost magic. Req: Being target by a benefical spell from a friendly caster. Benefits: The spell is considered cast with a CL of +<some value> for purposes of calculating the effects on you, up to the spell's normal limits". Likewise, healing heals you more, buffs lasts more rounds, etc.
Let's see. One feat to reduce CL, other to boost your Saves/decrease save DCs against some effects, some way of gaining SR? Something like Sudden Metagamic, that allows you to gain bigger benefits once a day when you are affected by a benefical spell?
There's some feats that gives you bonuses based on spells that affected you, in the SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/spelltouchedFeats.htm

[SinsI]

A spell cannot be cast below the minimum CL needed for a person of that class to gain spells of that level, typically speaking, so dropping Fireball below CL 5 for Wizards or 6 for Sorcs would end that.

No thoughts on the mechanic itself at this time, just supplying information.
It's kinda illogical for this mechanic to adhere to such a limitation: Fireball deals 5d6-10d6 damage depending on caster level, so if you are using it against level 4 fighter it won't matter if you're lvl 5 or 6.
I think it should even be able to surpass normal limitations - i.e. Protection from Arrows cast on a lvl 20 Fighter by a lvl 10 wizard will be able to absorb 150 points of damage.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

A spell cannot be cast below the minimum CL needed for a person of that class to gain spells of that level, typically speaking, so dropping Fireball below CL 5 for Wizards or 6 for Sorcs would end that.

No thoughts on the mechanic itself at this time, just supplying information.

The only rules on that I know of relate to magic items: A spell put into a magic item can't go below the minimum, but if you're subject to CL penalties (like Mage Slayer's -4) you're perfectly capable of personally casting a CL 2 fireball at 6th level.

[SinsI]

A little clarification on what classes this applies to.

You get 1 point of buff affinity per 3 levels for Tier 5 and below ( Fighter, Monk, CA Ninja, Healer, Swashbuckler, Rokugan Ninja, Soulknife, Expert, OA Samurai, Paladin, Knight); per 5 levels for Tier 4 (Rogue, Barbarian, Warlock, Warmage, Scout, Ranger, Hexblade, Adept, Spellthief, Marshal, Fighter (Dungeoncrasher Variant)) and per 6 levels for Tier 3(Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Crusader, Bard, Swordsage, Binder (without access to the summon monster vestige), Wildshape Varient Ranger, Duskblade, Factotum, Warblade, Psionic Warrior).

Spellcasting penalty applies to all casters, divine/arcane/psionic and even to artificiers.