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Lysander
2009-08-13, 04:26 PM
"We have to follow that soldier!"
"NO! It's too dangerous."
"It's our only lead."
"Hey, stop moving my feet! This is my body, I get veto!"
-Sometimes they don't get along

Imagine if you had a ghost possessing you, and that was a good thing. That's the idea behind the symbiotic spirit. A person willingly lets a symbiotic spirit into their body, becoming a much more powerful being with the abilities of both souls. However unlike Rich's Champion class a Symbiotic Spirit is not a class but two separate characters with their own class levels and HD.

In a campaign one player might choose to become a Symbiotic Spirit and possess another player, or a player with the leadership feat might be possessed by an npc cohort.

Symbiotic Spirit
A creature becomes a symbiotic spirit sometimes accidentally through death, or at other times through a magical ritual. The creature becomes undead and incorporeal, and appears as a translucent image of their old form. However unlike most undead a symbiotic spirit retains a constitution score, and cannot be turned. A symbiotic spirit is very weak and perishes without a host body to share.

In spirit form:

HD and class levels remain the same. They gain a fly speed of 30 feet. A symbiotic spirit can take no actions other than moving, speaking, or possessing a host while roaming.

A Symbiotic Spirit must possess a host within one hour or they perish. A Symbiotic Spirit can possess an animal as a means of survival, but gains no ability to control or communicate with that animal. Possessing an animal counts as a touch attack that can be negated by a DC20 Will Save. A Symbiotic Spirit can only possess a sentient creature if it willingly accepts them.

While Possessing a Sentient Creature
A possessed creature is much more powerful, but also has some weakness:

Individual Turns
The host and the spirit each retain their own initiative checks, and their own turns each controlling the host body. To an outside observer the host's body can appear to operate twice as quickly but each character can individually only accomplish as much as one person. This can double the creature's move speed if both spirit and host travel in the same direction.

On its turn, the spirit can perform any action its class abilities and skills allow using its own stats for any INT, WIS, CHA, or DEX based checks and the possessed creature's stats for any STR checks including combat. The possessed creature always uses their own stats for everything. Outside of turn based combat, either character can be the one performing any action.

If the the host and spirit disagree on an action they cannot force the other to do something, nor prevent them from receiving a turn.

Dual Health
Any damage to the host deals an equal amount of damage to the spirit. Any healing spell targeting the host heals an equal amount of health to the spirit. However, as long as either character has hitpoints remaining neither will die even at -10hp. If one character is at negative hitpoints they still become unconscious, but the other can control the host body without them. An unconscious character does not receive a saving throw even if the awake character does.

Shared Life
While possessing a creature a spirit does not count as undead, and is harmed by negative energy and healed by positive energy.

Shared Body
Both characters use the host body's STR and CON for all relevant checks. The spirit is limited to using the body's senses, and gains access to the host's supernatural and extraordinary abilities. An ability with limited daily uses or a recharge time still comes from a single source, and is expended at the same rate regardless of who uses it. In order to sleep, both characters must become unconscious.

Two Wills
Whenever the host body receives a will saving throw both characters roll. If either succeeds both succeed. If both fail however, both are affected. Drained levels are split evenly among the spirit and host as much as possible, with the host losing the extra level with odd numbers.

Fastest Reflex
The characters can choose which person's saving throw to use for all reflex saves. You must use a person's saving throw to take advantage of reflex feats they have like Evasion.

Highest HD
For any effect based on HD, the hybrid creature counts as having the higher character's HD.


Shared Spells
Both creatures share the effect of all spells, including spells that improve stats and spells that grant abilities to the body they both use.

Mental Immunity
The spirit is immune to mind affecting spells but the host is not. An enemy caster could mentally control the host's action, but the spirit would still have full control of their own action. However in order for the host to be controlled the spirit must also fail their will save.

Dispossession
The spirit can leave the host as a standard action at any point. This fatigues both characters.

Evicting a Spirit
Although a sentient character must accept a spirit for them to enter, they cannot force them out except through a Break Enchantment spell. Break Enchantment only forces out the spirit if the host wants to get rid of it, allowing curses to be safely removed without kicking the spirit out.

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So the pros and cons are, you get a superfast person with the ability to take two turns each round and access two different sets of class abilities. The downside is they each take damage from attacks and can only be in one place at a time.

PersonMan
2009-08-13, 04:33 PM
It seems nice, but the drawbacks...Well...

-They both take damage. Made effectively irrelevant by them both being healed as one.
-Only in one place: Well...Sort of. It could become annoying if a barbarian/wizard were sharing the body, but otherwise not really. The wizard spirit could cast his/her spell, and if the other spirit had initiative it could delay. Simple enough...

A good concept, and it's pretty well thought out. Just saying that the drawbacks are...well...Not really bad.

Lysander
2009-08-13, 07:56 PM
It seems nice, but the drawbacks...Well...

-They both take damage. Made effectively irrelevant by them both being healed as one.
-Only in one place: Well...Sort of. It could become annoying if a barbarian/wizard were sharing the body, but otherwise not really. The wizard spirit could cast his/her spell, and if the other spirit had initiative it could delay. Simple enough...

A good concept, and it's pretty well thought out. Just saying that the drawbacks are...well...Not really bad.

I was trying to figure out if there should be a level adjustment for the spirit.

The other downside is that two separate people can flank a foe. A possessed person can't.

And save or die spells with fortitude saves could be brutal. One disintegrate could kill both of them. Same goes for poisons.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-13, 08:39 PM
What do you mean by downside? Or upside for that matter? Do you mean CR and LA?

Add the template to a character and you get essentially two characters with two actions. They can't flank but can double move. They share 1 Fort but essentially have two Ref and Will saves each.

It's better than a gestalt character. So the CR is what? (Assuming roughly equal CR's for spirit and possesses) I would say 1+CR 2+CR of the highest CR of either the spirit or the possessed. But the ECL is what. That's a little harder but I would say 3+ECL 4+ECL of the highest of either the spirit or the possessed.

Edit: Missed the part about being immune to mind affecting magic (added +1 to CR/ECL).

Sanguine
2009-08-13, 08:55 PM
I would just like to say this is awesome. It definitely needs to have a level adjustment or not be allowed in players hands as the "drawbacks" don't really take anything away from a character they are just limits to the granted abilities.

Owrtho
2009-08-13, 09:23 PM
I'd suggest some of the following changes:
remove immunity to mind-affecting abilities. Instead make them both be individually effected (thus one could be charmed and not the other, even if targeting one targets both).
For will saves it should be the same (they both make them, but are effected individually, thus one could fail and receive the penalty and the other could succeed and be fine)
Make them heal separately
Give some kind of penalty to reflex saves (maybe something like 1d10 penalty or something). The way I see it, there would be a good chance that their reflexes would end up contradicting each other (like one trying to dodge left and the other trying to dodge right). As such they should have some kind of random penalty to it.

Owrtho

Lysander
2009-08-13, 10:02 PM
I'd suggest some of the following changes:
remove immunity to mind-affecting abilities. Instead make them both be individually effected (thus one could be charmed and not the other, even if targeting one targets both).


I changed it so that the host can be mind controlled but the spirit is immune. However if the spirit passes its will save it can shield the host.


I would just like to say this is awesome. It definitely needs to have a level adjustment or not be allowed in players hands as the "drawbacks" don't really take anything away from a character they are just limits to the granted abilities.

The drawbacks aren't so bad, but the benefits aren't necessarily overpowering either. If viewed as one person, yeah they're pretty powerful, but you have to remember that they're two separate people. Players can't be both halves, they either need to work with another player or have a cohort. Are the two characters better off in one body than in two? Could the symbiotic spirit/host win in a fight against two people of equal levels?

The pros are pretty neat. Two characters can share a mount, share a single set of armor/weapons/magic items, share defensive feats, have a much higher chance of resisting magic, use the higher move silently/climb/bluff/etc. skill, use magical self-buffs on warrior classes...and talk about cheating in 1vs1 duels!

But the cons are pretty extensive. Melee attacks damage both of them at a time, spirits with different classes might not be proficient with or have their spellcasting messed up by the host's preferred armor or weapons, they can't flank, a single target spells can potentially harm two people...and both characters getting harmed by melee attacks is a pretty big deal. Having one injured character and an uninjured ally next to them to help is far better.

Of course, what makes a symbiotic spirit really useful in a party is that they can switch hosts. Got the spirit of a fighter? Whoever needs fighting skill that day can have spirit. Thief? If the wizard needs to be sneaky they can become sneaky. Wizard spirit? That Barbarian will surprise his foes when he starts unleashing fireballs.