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View Full Version : [4E] Throne of Dominion Abuse



Break
2009-08-17, 03:42 AM
For those who aren't aware, the Throne of Dominion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20090803) is a lair item in Adventurer's Vault 2, and is previewed on WotC's site. It's quite powerful.

What you have is a stun item that works without an attack roll (thought it is a save ends effect), with range limited only by sight, and with loose conditions with which you can apply that stunning. I'm not even sure if the following cheese works by RAW, partially because of how poorly worded the item is, but I'll present it here, if only for the amusing mental image it would provide.

Have a ritualist cast Tenser's Floating Disk, and place the throne on it - weight shouldn't be an issue if your Arcana check is high enough. A 40+ result lets the disk carry a literal ton of items, which should be sufficient; however, since not many can consistently manage an Arcana check that high, a 25+ for 1000 pounds of lift should do the trick.

Have someone else - that is, not the ritualist - sit on the throne. This "king" will basically yell out silly or nonsensical orders for the enemy to disobey, thus opening the way for a stun. The ritualist, meanwhile, pretty much acts as a rickshaw driver for the king.

So, you've got a 100% accurate stun with absurd range at your disposal - the last step is to duck as your DM throws his books at you.

Where this gets truly terrible is that you can use this on the rest of the party, too. Give your orders, stun them if they disobey, give them a quick punishment that preferably doesn't involve leaving your throne, and repeat until they comply. Now duck under the game table as the players throw books at you.

The above isn't foolproof - among other things, the king has to leave the throne sometime, and it basically only works on enemies the king is aware of. There's also the problems of no action or area of effect the stun has, so you don't know exactly when or how many you can stun at once for disobeying, so some ranged attackers might still be able to get at the king. Also, the king can't really control the party in dangerous situations, as stunning them for disobeying would be too dangerous.

Past that, though, the above was mostly using the most amusing interpretation of the throne's abilities - after all, the thought of some wizard carting around a bossy gnome on a throne is just too funny to pass up. Here's to hoping the item is worded better in the final release, or errata'd to make its limitations clearer.

1of3
2009-08-17, 03:55 AM
Unlike most magic items, lair items arenít portable; they must be left behind when a hero goes exploring.

The basic idea of these items is that you can't move them. You build that thing in throne hall and it will remain there forever.

FlawedParadigm
2009-08-17, 04:00 AM
Yes, but it doesn't specifically say it ceases functioning if moved, needs to be bolted to the floor, or anything else. He mentions that you need to eventually leave the throne, which isn't strictly true either if you can have your meals brought to you and the resulting wastes taken away.

Going by the exact wording of the item, you can effectively permastun any being who disobeys you, in deed or even thought. If you say "Don't move, or even think about moving", and they do either, they're stunned. Technically, they're stuck there for the rest of their lives unless you give them a different order - if they don't move, they don't move, and if they do (or even think about it), they won't be moving anyhow.

The worst part is that upon reading the item description, even without reading the rest of the post, all of this was painfully obvious. It's like they made no attempt to proofread or test these items. I can only hope the section introduction for lair items says something along the lines of "these items do not function outside of the building they are designated for" or somesuch, because elsewise this item is insane.

Antacid
2009-08-17, 04:49 AM
The worst part is that upon reading the item description, even without reading the rest of the post, all of this was painfully obvious. It's like they made no attempt to proofread or test these items.

Yes, it's almost as if Wizards of the Coast have realised D&D players actually love arguing about nonsense like this, and have resigned themselves to providing item descriptions that make the design intent clear whilst leaving the abusability to DM fiat. That way we can enjoy a diversionary social activity (arguing about rules), indulgent DMs can allow their players lulzy rules interpretations, and everyone else can get on with playing the game as intended after laughing at amusing, obviously absurd alternate interpretations. :smallbiggrin:

KIDS
2009-08-17, 05:10 AM
It's the new Candle of Invocation, in a strange fashion.

Imo, since it's the only of its kind so far and comes so late, I can't say that it worries me. I'll just ignore it, or if one of my players wants it, houserule it to something more reasonable. But they should have done a much better job on that, particularly playtesting.

Kurald Galain
2009-08-17, 06:03 AM
This abuse is easily countered with an invisible or hidden enemy, or one that has blindness or darkness powers. Just sayin'.

SlyGuyMcFly
2009-08-17, 06:28 AM
Yes, it's almost as if Wizards of the Coast have realised D&D players actually love arguing about nonsense like this, and have resigned themselves to providing item descriptions that make the design intent clear whilst leaving the abusability to DM fiat. That way we can enjoy a diversionary social activity (arguing about rules), indulgent DMs can allow their players lulzy rules interpretations, and everyone else can get on with playing the game as intended after laughing at amusing, obviously absurd alternate interpretations. :smallbiggrin:

That makes a scary amount of sense.

FlawedParadigm
2009-08-17, 07:05 AM
Actually, where the real fun will come in is when the players start trying to abuse this, and then the DM hits them back, especially since bad guys tend to have ways of forcing you to confront them in their lairs. Especially fun since it's very difficult to teleport people large distances against their will the way you could in some earlier editions.

Orcus on his throne, indeed. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OrcusOnHisThrone)

Funkyodor
2009-08-17, 12:27 PM
Or if the enemies don't speak the players language, or are deaf, or are smart enough to twist the meaning of commands so they obey them and still do what they want... Also, the ritualist that cast the floating disk can ride the throne and still control the disk, he doesn't need to chauffeur.