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Dragon Elite
2009-08-17, 05:13 PM
I need help on balance but:


Speed:

Every ship starts out with 100 speed. Speed does many things:
1) The ship with highest speed goes first.
2) When you get attacked, roll a d%. If it is lower than your speed, you avoided the attack and take no damage


Hulls:

Light: Destroys at 100 damage. -5 speed
Medium: Destroys at 200 damage -15 speed
Heavy: Destroys at 400 damage -45 speed


Weapons:

Laser: Deals 5 damage. -5 speed
Blaster: Deals 15 damage -20 speed
Blaster cannon: Deals 25 damage -40 speed


Other Rules

1) If your hull is 0 or lower, you die.
2) If speeds are tied, flip a coin to see who goes first.
3) Ships may have up to two weapons
4) On your turn, you may fire any/all of your weapons


Tell me what you think and post better rules!

Dragon Elite
2009-08-17, 05:45 PM
Anyone there?

levi
2009-08-17, 08:45 PM
Seems quick and basic. I assume this is some sort of tabletop or board game. Seems like it could be fun and a time kill of sorts, but it looks like it lacks any sort of strategic depth. It could be a solid start, but it seems just a little too simple for my taste.

I haven't run the numbers yet, but with the basics you've laid out here, I'd be willing to bet that there is an ideal ship configuration that wins (on average) more than any other. Then again, there may be a rock-paper-scissors situation I'm not seeing.

On a different note, I think you need a better writeup of the rules. While it seems possible to figure out how to play from what you've posted, it's simply a list of bullet points and the players have to fill in the blanks. As there are a lot of standard game rules that are used by many games, that sort of works, but a good designer should seek to make everything as clear as possible.

For instance, from what I can infer, the game has a turn based structure, but you make no mention of it. Rather, it is up to the player to assume such. Furthermore, there is no indication as to what one can do on their turn. I imagine that you can fire one or two weapons, but it's not explicit and there are no details. For instance, can I fire at differnt targets if I have two weapons?

I think you have an error in your other rules section. It says if your speed is zero that you die, but AFAICT, there is nothing that reduces speed other than during ship construction. I assume you mean that when your hull is reduced to zero, you die, but I can't really tell. Or does taking damage once your hull is destroyed reduce your speed? As I said above, you need to write out a full set of rules, not just a list of bullet points.

As for balance, I'll run some min-max numbers and see what I come up with. The three factors are basically damage avoidance, damage dealing capacity, and hull points. Should be pretty basic to figure the math.

Edit

Well, I ran some basic numbers. I calculated some average (one on one) battles with a number of ships: three that just maxed out one aspect, two that maxed out several aspects, and one kinda balanced. On design killed everything else. I can't say for sure it's the best option out there, but I do think it's close to it.

If you have any ideas for ships that can beat Killer, post them and I'll run the numbers. Here's my data, I didn't bother to BBCode it up, and there's no explanation, just the numbers, but I hope it helps. (I did this using the rules as far as I understand them. If you post more complete rules, I can provide better quality data.)



Evader

Light Hull, Single Lazer

speed 90
hull 100
damage 5

Damager

Light Hull, Dual Blaster Cannon

speed 15
hull 100
damage 2 * 25 = 50

Defender

Heavy Hull, Single Lazer

speed 50
hull 400
damage 5

Crusher

Medium Hull, Dual Blaster Cannon

speed 5
hull 200
damage 2 * 25 = 50

Killer

Heavy Hull, Dual Blaster

speed 15
hull 400
damage 15 * 2 = 30

Balancer

Medium Hull, Dual Blaster

speed 45
hull 200
damage 15 * 2 = 30


Pairings

Win Ship DPS Life

Evader 5 * 0.85 = 4.25 20.00
* Damager 50 * 0.10 = 5.00 ~23.53

* Evader 5 * 0.50 = 2.50 200.00
Defender 5 * 0.10 = 0.50 160.00

Evader 5 * 0.95 = 4.75 20.00
* Crusher 50 * 0.10 = 5.00 ~42.11

Evader 5 * 0.85 = 4.25 ~33.33
* Killer 30 * 0.10 = 3.00 ~94.12

Evader 5 * 0.55 = 2.75 ~33.33
* Balancer 30 * 0.10 = 3.00 ~72.73

* Damager 50 * 0.50 = 25.00 ~23.53
Defender 5 * 0.85 = 4.25 16.00

Damager 50 * 0.95 = 47.50 ~2.35
* Crusher 50 * 0.85 = 42.50 ~4.21

Damager 50 * 0.85 = 42.50 ~3.92
* Killer 30 * 0.85 = 25.50 ~9.41

Damager 50 * 0.55 = 27.50 ~3.92
* Balancer 30 * 0.85 = 25.50 ~7.27

Defender 5 * 0.85 = 4.25 16.00
* Crusher 50 * 0.50 = 25.00 ~47.06

Defender 5 * 0.95 = 4.75 ~26.67
* Killer 30 * 0.50 = 15.00 ~84.21

Defender 5 * 0.55 = 2.75 ~26.67
* Balancer 30 * 0.50 = 15.00 ~72.73

Crusher 50 * 0.85 = 42.50 ~7.02
* Killer 30 * 0.95 = 28.50 ~9.41

Crusher 50 * 0.55 = 27.50 ~7.02
* Balancer 30 * 0.95 = 28.50 ~7.27

* Killer 30 * 0.55 = 16.50 ~15.67
Balancer 30 * 0.85 = 25.50 ~12.12


Ranking Ship Frags

1st Killer 5
2nd Balancer 4
3rd Crusher 3
4th Damager 2
5th Evader 1
6th Defender 0

Knaight
2009-08-17, 10:18 PM
Its simple enough for a war game, but too simple for an RPG.

Dragon Elite
2009-08-17, 10:31 PM
Can anyone have an addition for ranges?

Strawman
2009-08-17, 10:53 PM
Is the game going to use tiles? If so, you could have certain squares that have various effects. If not, ignore the spoiler.

A square with a star in it will cause any shots fired through the square to gravitate towards the sun. Auto-correction is possible, but there is an inherent 50% hit chance. Ships can not fly onto a tile that has a star in it.

A square with an astroid field in it will reduce accuracy of any shots fired through it, but it will also damage any ship moving through it. Any shot through an asteroid field has a 1/6 chance of missing.

There could be meteor tokens. They move a certain set pace (1 tile/turn, 5 tiles/turn, whatever) on set path. They damage a ship they collide with, and they can be destroyed with an attack. They have low HP, but affect gameplay because a player who allowed themselves to be in a meteor's path will have to use up an attack on it.

A square with a planet on it does not affect gameplay. However, the planet can be fired on and destroyed. It would have a high HP. A particular type of gameplay could involve one side trying to defend a planet while the other tried to destroy it. Or both sides could try to destroy the other side's planet first.


I'd help with ranges, but I'm not good at game balance.

Dragon Elite
2009-08-18, 07:18 AM
Thanks Strawman.

Eloel
2009-08-18, 08:45 AM
Killer(HMM) has an efficiency value of;
30 * 400 / 85 = 141.2
Using;
Attack * HP / (100 - Speed) as the formula.
If anything beats that number, they win.

Hull/W1/W2 (Classing the weapons as Light Medium Heavy for ease of use)

LL0 = 5 * 100 / 10 = 50
LLL = 10 * 100 / 15 = 66.7
LLM = 20 * 100 / 30 = 66.7
LLH = 30 * 100 / 50 = 60
LM0 = 15 * 100 / 25 = 60
LMM = 30 * 100 / 45 = 66.7
LMH = 40 * 100 / 65 = 61.5
LH0 = 25 * 100 / 45 = 55.6
LHH = 50 * 100 / 85 = 58.8

ML0 = 5 * 200 / 20 = 50
MLL = 10 * 200 / 25 = 80
MLM = 20 * 200 / 40 = 100
MLH = 30 * 200 / 60 = 100
MM0 = 15 * 200 / 35 = 85.7
MMM = 30 * 200 / 55 = 109.1
MMH = 40 * 200 / 75 = 106.7
MH0 = 25 * 200 / 55 = 90.9
MHH = 50 * 200 / 95 = 105.3

HL0 = 5 * 400 / 50 = 40
HLL = 10 * 400 / 55 = 72.7
HLM = 20 * 400 / 70 = 114.3
HLH = 30 * 400 / 90 = 133.3
HM0 = 15 * 400 / 65 = 92.3
HMM = 30 * 400 / 85 = 141.2
HMH = 40 * 400 / 105 = N/A (152.4 if you can have negative speed)
HH0 = 25 * 400 / 85 = 117.6
HHH = 50 * 400 / 125 = N/A (160 if you can have negative speed)

Nope, nothing beats HMM in 1v1.

When beelining through enemy fire, LL0 lasts the longest (except L00, which is silly)
When pummeling at enemy planets/bases, MHH is the most efficient.
But battles favor HMM over anything else.

Dragon Elite
2009-08-18, 09:52 AM
Does anybody have some homebrewed stats? Please post them!