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TheThan
2009-08-19, 08:03 PM
Ok this class is not my work. Itís the work of my current Dm and a new player. They sort of collaborated on it. The Dm is basically a newb and doesnít know as much about the game as this new player, which is a straight up power gamer. So I called shinanigens, but that is neither here nor there. Anyway on to the class:

This class Null Guy is a work in progress (including the name). The idea is that he is strongly anti-magic. He has the ability to suppress and negate magic around him. Doing so gives him ďchargesĒ which he can use to do a variety of things, such as heal and buff himself, and deal extra damage. Basically everything he needs to completely self-reliant.

Anyway the two creators and I are trying to polish out this class and balance it against everything else.


Null guy (working title)
D12 hit die, 5+int mod skills:
Skill points: 5+Int mod per level ,
Skills: Balance (Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (str) Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int) and Tumble (Dex).
The Null guy also may choose one of the following skills as a class skill: Spot, Listen, or Search.


Null guy
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|SR20+class level, touch dispel magic, eat magic, draining touch

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|Channeled strike

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+3|Erratic strike I

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|bonus fighter feat, attentiveness +1

5th|
+3|
+4|
+2|
+4|self heal

6th|
+4|
+5|
+2|
+5|Erratic Strike II

7th|
+5|
+5|
+2|
+5|damage transfer (self)

8th|
+6/+1|
+6|
2|
+6|surge skill, attentiveness +2

9th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+3|
+6|Erratic strike III

10th|
+7/+2|
+7|
+3|
+7|life burn

11th|
+8/+3|
+7|
+3|
+7|bonus fighter feat

12th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+4|
+8|Erratic Strike IV, Attentiveness +3

13th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+4|
+8|interception

14th|
+10/+5|
+9|
+4|
+9|

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+9|
+5|
+9|Erratic strike V

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|Retain energy, attentiveness +4

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|bonus fighter feat

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+11|Erratic strike VI

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|homecoming

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12|disjunktion touch, attentiveness +5[/table]


Touch Dispel Magic(Su):
The Null Guy may touch any magical item or being and attempt to dispel it, as a targeted Dispel Magic. Doing so requires only a standard action to affect an enchanted target, but magical items require a full round of contact before it takes effect. Caster lvl is equal to 5+ character lvl. This effect is always active, and cannot be turned off. In this way, the Null guy cannot have any magical items. Or rather, Magical Items are useless to him. Until a Null Guy reaches 20th lvl, however, he may still gain partial benefits from artifacts until lvl20.

Draining Touch(Su):
Make a melee touch attack as a standard action in order to deal damage to a creature and gain an equal number of charges. Deals damage against highly magical creatures, such as Undead, Magical Constructs, etc. Against creatures of pure magic, like elementals, the effect is Maximized. 1d6 damage per 2 character lvls. Again, this is untyped magical damage, but creatures are allowed a Will save (DC 10+Wisdom mod+ Null Guy level) to reduce the damage by half. There is a (5% per lvl) chance that the Null Guyís touch alone will cause this effect, involuntarily, on any magical creature he touches.

Eat Magic(Su):
When the Null Guy dispels or resists magic, some of the magical energy is stored within him as charges. The first time a Null Guy dispels a magical item in a day, he gains 1 charge per 2 caster lvls of the item dispelled. Each subsequent dispelling produces only 1 charge. If the Null Guy dispels a spell with a duration longer than 1 round, he gains charges equal to 10x the spell lvl. If the Null Guy resists a spell via his SR, he gains a number of charges equal to 10x the spell lvl.

Erratic Strike I(Su):
1d12 damage as a Close range attack. This attack deals damage in the form of raw energy, the kind from which all magic stems, and as such it is untyped magical damage. Costs 6 charges per die. You may attain a maximum number of dice equal to the Erratic Strike level, as indicated by the table.

Channeled Strike(Su):
The Null Guy may infuse his melee attacks with raw power. A Null Guy may, as a standard action, make a single melee attack. If it hits, he can add 1d8 per 2 levels of his class, rounded down. Each die costs 2 charges.

Alertness(Ex):
The Null Guy, while he cannot use magical items, is gifted with an unearthly awareness. This is manifested as a bonus to attack and defense, as indicated.

Self-heal(Su):
The Null Guy may, as a swift action, heal himself of damage. For every 1 charge spent, he may recover 2 HP.

Damage Transfer(Su):
Spend 1 charge to heal 5HP to a target in touch range. Receive equal amount in subdual damage. You may heal as much HP as you like provided you have sufficient charges. This can knock you unconscious. Takes a standard action, need not make actual physical contact with subject, but must have line of effect.

Surge Skill(Su):
Spend charges to gain a bonus on a skill check. May be used for any skill requiring less than 5 minutes to execute, except knowledge skills, use rope, and spellcraft.

Life Burn(Su):
Pay 10% of max HP to double the max number of dice for Channeled Strike, and Erratic Strike d20 die size at a cost of 8 instead of 6. Requires swift action, lasts till end of round or till expended.

Interception:
If you are in the line of effect of a spell cast, you may intercept it. Make a reflex save in order to 5ft step to intercept ally-targeted spells, DC equal to 5 plus caster lvl. If exceeded by 10, may make a 10ft step in same fashion. This is an Immediate Action.

Homecoming:
[thanís notes]
This was added last night, not really sure about the mechanics. It creates an AOE that sucks all magic to it and shunts it back into the earth (all magic comes from the earth in this setting). the more magic it absorbs the smaller it gets. Its supposed to have a high points cost and act as a ďpoints dumpĒ.



Now there are a few things that need work. They didnít figure out what happens when he is struck by a magic weapon and I already mentioned that the spell resistance is WAY too high.

Milskidasith
2009-08-19, 08:11 PM
It's kind of hilarious how he gets shut down by an AMF... you might want to fix that.

I didn't read the rest yet, but that's a serious issue; he's antimagic and gets shut down in antimagic.

TheThan
2009-08-19, 08:14 PM
It's kind of hilarious how he gets shut down by an AMF... you might want to fix that.

I didn't read the rest yet, but that's a serious issue; he's antimagic and gets shut down in antimagic.

come to think of it that's right, technically he can't affect himself with his own abilities. haha I'll have to tell him that.

Milskidasith
2009-08-19, 08:16 PM
I was thinking that a mage just has to cast an AMF around himself and use Invoke Magic to blast him with 4th level spells or below while all his abilities don't work. (Also, because his dispelling touch works as a Dispel Magic, it doesn't advance past 10th level).

Anyway, the entire point of this class is, as usual, a bad one. It completely shuts down magical characters up to a point (in this case, until they can cast as a level 17 caster with Invoke Magic), or use epic spellcasting, and manages to be very... meh, at the least, against melee.

EDIT: Also, you give no notes for Disjunction touch.

Dragon Elite
2009-08-19, 08:24 PM
Why don't you just carry around a minor magic item, and use it to get tons of charge? Magic items are suppressed for 1d4+1 rounds(I think.) Just the power gamer at work, probably.

TheThan
2009-08-19, 08:29 PM
The whole magic item as a battery has come up, and a few fixes have been proposed. Though I donít recall specifically which one was decided upon. I think it takes 3 rounds for the dispel to take effect, which I think is the same thing we decided upon for magical items used to attack him.

personally i think it should be a percentage chance to drain the magic items but that's just me.

Innis Cabal
2009-08-19, 08:57 PM
SR 20 at level one is....silly. That alone...is bad and needs fixed. Maybe a scale to level SR

Dragon Elite
2009-08-19, 10:38 PM
SR 20 at level one is....silly. That alone...is bad and needs fixed. Maybe a scale to level SR

SR 10 at the max, SR 5 is much more reasonable

TheThan
2009-08-19, 11:45 PM
Yeah, that is one thing we are changing. Its SR 20+his class level, so a caster needs a natural 20 (or be several levels higher than him) to get through that SR. that is one of the big things Iíve been trying to get lowered. Weíve come down to SR 10 + his character level, though personally I think it should be Ĺ his character level.
There is also talk of making his SR an activated ability. So that at least he as to do something to get the anti-magic. What do you think?

One thing I need to know, does SR affect super natural abilities. If so then half his class doesnít work.

Milskidasith
2009-08-19, 11:48 PM
SR doesn't affect Su abilities; however, an antimagic field does. So if he fights a caster inside an AMF, which should be his element, the cleric's probably going to beat his head in instead. (Well, probably not, since he has D12 hit dice, but it would be a battle of the dice rolls and feat selection and not the pure shutdown you were looking for.)

What's even worse for this build would be an Extraordinary Spell Aimed Cleric running a Persisted AMF; you couldn't hit him with your Su abilities while within 10 feet of him, but all his buffs would be running, he could cast at you from far away, and he'd have magic gear, at least until bashing you with it.

elliott20
2009-08-19, 11:54 PM
- conceptually, this is a bad idea. The class is not designed towards a particular character concept but a purely mechanic concept. that is, shut down casters.

- All of these abilities are SU, which means that he is already using abilities that he himself is trying to shut down. And yes, an AMF would totally lock him down. Irony is funny.

- d12 hit dice? why? most FULL martial types only get a d10.

- 5 skill points per level? again, why?

- this guy is very party unfriendly. an involuntary dispel magic touch might make this class less overpowered, but it doesn't make it more viable. The ability to suppress that is pretty much a necessity to make this guy even playable in a standard campaign.

- erratic strike AND channeled strike? why would you need 2 types of these? and then you have HP burn, which makes this even better. (10%, btw, is nothing) in fact, I dare say a lot of the abilities here just feel... off.

- and the role it's supposed to fulfill, it does so entirely be reaction. That is, you only dispel stuff when it targets you or you can physically get close to it. That's an assumption that any decent caster will frequently be denied to you.

- surge skill doesn't fit very well with this class either. It's actually one of the best utility abilities he has since it turns a fully loaded Null Guy into a swiss army skill monkey.

Godskook
2009-08-20, 12:18 AM
Name suggestion: Void Eater

Saves: I'd drop it down to all bad, and give him like a +4 on saves against spells, possibly spell-like abilities, and probably not against supernatural abilities. That way, you still get that 'anti-spell' feel while still giving this guy a weakness.

Charges: Maybe its just me, but I'd switch it to having him just gain charges by succesfully saving/resisting a spell, or attacking creatures with spell-casting abilities. From what I can tell of the flavor, it makes little sense that he'd gain charges simply by hitting non-magical things.

Alertness/Attentiveness: Please fix this typo. Also, the wording needs work. Otherwise, seems fine(Can't use weapons, but gains the +X of owning weapons).

Eat Magic: At low levels, seems fine, but at high levels, 90 charges might be a lot. Hard to tell currently.

Disjunction touch: Is the a PC or a BBEG? As a PC, that ability is essentially 'I hate my party', and if its the BBEG, it is essentially 'I hate my players'. I can't imagine an at-will disjunction going over well with anyone, for any reason, even if mitigated by a 'charge cost'.

Myou
2009-08-20, 03:21 AM
d12 is a great big 'no'. He should have a d6 at best.

I'm not even going to look at the rest of the class. :smallyuk:

TheThan
2009-08-20, 01:17 PM
Ok i like Void Eater as a name for this class. so I'm going to use it unless someone can come up with something better.
anyway here are some of the changes I'm looking at implementing.

Drop D12 to D8.

Magic resistance:
The Void Eater has natural spell resistance equal to 5+his Void Eater level. This cannot be suppressed. As a standard action, the Void Eater can increase his base SR value to 10+Void Eater level. However he must pass a concentration check (DC 10+1/2 his level). When successful his spell resistance immediately increases to 10+Void Eater level for 5 rounds.

Draining touch
As a standard action the Void Eater may make a melee touch attack in order to deal damage to magical being. Upon a successful hit he deals 1d6 +1/2 his Void Eater level to the creature. Only creatures of the following types are affected: aberration, elemental, fey, magical beast, outsider and undead. This damage automatically bypasses all forms of Damage reduction. In addition, the Void Eater gains charges equal to the amount of damage he dealt.


Eat magic:
Whenever the Void Eater resists a spell via his SR, he automatically gains charges equal to 10+ the spell level he rested.

Godskook
2009-08-20, 11:05 PM
Could you update your first post? It'd be easier to see where things are now if there was an updated 'complete' version.

The Witch-King
2009-08-20, 11:32 PM
Possible name: Abjurist

The concept reminds me of Touma from A Certain Magical Index: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index

Touma is a level 0 psychic living in a city where psychics are rated from 0 (no powers) to level 5 (incredible power) but he has a unique ability--any supernatural effect he touches with his right hand (psionic or magical) is automatically nullified. And he has no control over this power--at one point, he touches the enchanted habit of a sister and it explodes into shreds all around her...

What the class needs is some way for him to absorb too much magical energy and it causes him damage. Or maybe he has to choose the direction of his flow and he can't absorb magic and expel magic (to heal and/or do attacks) at the same time--like each round he has to choose if he's in absorbing mode or projecting mode. In projecting mode, he could even use a magical item, maybe even use charges to supercharge it. But either way, if he absorbs or uses too many charges in too short a time he takes attribute damage because the current flowing through him is just too much.

Just an idea.

Another thought--the absorbing mode should be entirely uncontrolled--if he's in absorbing mode, it just happens and if he's touching the wrong item or some tries to cast a friendly spell on him--too bad--it gets absorbed. What would be really awesome would be if someone threw an area effect spell at him like a fireball and he accidentally absorbed all that energy and fried his own brain...

TheThan
2009-08-20, 11:43 PM
Ok Iíve been ironing out this class. I managed to fix the problems with the class such as the auto negation of magic items upon touch, the huge SR and a few other things Iíve noticed. I also added some cool new abilities and fixed some of the poorly worded ones. Itís a much nicer class; it also still retains some power, but its not super retarded as it was previously.

I have two levels that are blank, and honestly I canít for the life of me think of any other abilities. Feel free to list any suggestions or corrections you think I ought to make to this class.

I think the idea for this class did come from an Anime. Both the guys that created it are Anime Nerds. As for which one, I honestly can't tell you, I'm not into it as much as I used to be. Anyway here's the new and improved class:



The Void eater
D8 hit die
Skill points: 4+int mod x4 at first level; 4+Int mod per level thereafter
Skills: Balance (Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (str) Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int) and Tumble (Dex).
The Void Eater also may choose one of the following skills as a class skill: Spot, Listen, or Search.


Void Eater
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Magic Resistance, Charges

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+0| Draining touch

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+1|dispelling touch 1/day

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+1| Eat Magic

5th|
+2|
+2|
+2|
+2| See Magic

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+2| bonus fighter feats

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+2| Channeled strike

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+2| dispelling touch 2/day

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+3| surging strike

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+3| bonus fighter feat

11th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+3| Return Spell

12th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+4| magic man

13th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+4| dispelling touch 3/day


14th|
+7/+2|
+4|
+4|
+4| bonus fighter feat

15th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+5| Spell Absorption

16th|
+8/+2|
+5|
+5|
+5| Healing

17th|
+8/+2|
+5|
+5|
+5| Burn out

18th|
+9/+3|
+6|
+6|
+6|dispelling touch 4/day, bonus fighter feat

19th|
+9/+3|
+6|
+6|
+11|

20th|
+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+6|

[/table]

Weapon and armor proficiency:
The Void Eater may use all simple weapons, plus the long sword, battle-axe and war hammer. He may wear any armor and any shields (except tower shields). However the Void Eater cannot wear or carry any magical weapon, shield, armor or magical item. All magical gear becomes mundane items (magical armor and weapons maintain their mastercraft bonuses) for as long as the Void Eater is wearing or holding them.

Magic resistance (su):
The Void Eater has natural spell resistance equal to 5+his Void Eater level. This cannot be suppressed. As a standard action, the Void Eater can increase his base SR value. However he must pass a concentration check (DC 10+1/2 his level). When successful his spell resistance immediately increases to 10+Void Eater level for 5 rounds. The Void Eater gains a +4 bonus to his saving throws vs magic and spell like abilities.

Charges:
Several of the Void Eaterís class features grant or use charges. These charges can only be held for a short time before they are naturally expended through his body. The charges last for 4 rounds normally. But he may make a concentration check (DC 20+1/2 Void eater level) to retain these charges for an additional 1d6 rounds. Once he has made this check, he cannot make this concentration check for another 24 hours.

Draining touch (su):
As a standard action the Void Eater may make a melee touch attack in order to deal damage to magical being. Upon a successful hit he deals 1d6 +1/2 his Void Eater level to the creature. Only creatures of the following types are affected: aberration, elemental, fey, magical beast, outsider and undead. This damage automatically bypasses all forms of Damage reduction. In addition, the Void Eater gains charges equal to the amount of damage he dealt.

Dispelling touch (su):
Once per day the Void Eater may attempt one dispelling touch. This is a melee touch attack. If the Void eater hits he deals 1d6+1/2 his void Eater level, in addition his target is subject to a targeted greater dispel magic. The Void Eaterís dispel check is 1d20+Void Eater level+6. This increases to 2/day at 8th, 3/day at 13th level and 4/day at 18th level.

Eat magic (su):
Whenever the Void Eater resists a spell via his SR, he automatically gains charges equal to 10+ the spell level he rested.

See magic (su):
The Void Eater can see magical auras in the immediate area. This ability functions exactly like Detect magic.

Bonus fighter feat:
The Void eater gains a bonus feat taken from the fighter bonus feat list.

Channeling Strike (su):
The Void Eater may infuse his melee attacks with raw magical power. A Void Eater may, as a standard action, make a single melee attack. He may spend one charge to add +1d6 points of damage (up to a maximum of Ĺ his Void Eater level) to his attack. These extra dice are not multiplied for critical hits. However the damage is treated as magical damage for the purposes of bypassing damage reduction.

Surging strike (su):
The Void Eater may infuse his melee attacks with raw power. A void Eater may spend 1 charge to add +1 to his next normal melee attack this turn, (up to a maximum of Ĺ his character level).

Return spell (su):
As an Immediate action, the Void Eater may ďcopyĒ any spell or spell like ability that has beaten his spell resistance this turn. He must target the creature that cast the spell or spell like ability. Treat his void Eater class levels as caster levels for numeric effects and spell resistance checks. Any and all meta-magic feats that have been applied to the spell are copied as well.

Magic man (su):
The void Eater may spend stored charges to add a +1d6 bonus to any saving throw, ability check or skill check he makes. The may only spend one charge per roll when using this class feature.

Spell absorption (su):
When any spell or spell like ability with an AOE (cone, line etc) hits the Void Eater, hey may as an immediate reaction, force that effect to only affect him, thusly protecting his allies from harm. The void Eater must make a concentration check (DC 10+1/2 his void eater level). The spell or spell like ability then must bypass his SR to affect him. The void Eater must take the full brunt of the spell or spell like ability. He may use his Return Spell class feature immediately after using Magic Man, however the spell must get past his SR in order for him to use Return Spell. Doing so takes up his standard action during his next turn.


Healing (su):
At 16th level, The Void Eater may spend one charge to heal himself or an ally for 1d6 points of damage. He must be able to touch his ally. He may only spend a maximum of points equal to ľ his character level.

Burn out (Ex):
While in an anti-magic field, the Void mage may take a full round action to force his supernatural abilities to work. He must pass a concentration check equal to 20+1/2 his void Eater level in order for this ability to work. Also in order for this ability to function he must spend Ĺ (rounded down, minimum 1) his stored charges. He must have at least one charge stored. He may only use this ability once per day.

Godskook
2009-08-21, 12:16 AM
I'll say it because I know someone else will, eventually. Why the odd-numbered skill points per level? Its non-standard.

TheThan
2009-08-21, 12:59 AM
I'll say it because I know someone else will, eventually. Why the odd-numbered skill points per level? Its non-standard.

for some reason i though some of the core classes got 3. weird, anyway i can change it 4 that seems fair.

Milskidasith
2009-08-21, 07:34 PM
Here's a question: Why is it that the void eater levels are what causes the DC to go up? Shouldn't the spell/caster level of the spell he's trying to absorb/AMF he's trying to ignore matter?

The last levels are, in fact, completely terrible to take; bad save bonuses, no abilities, and increasing the DC of his void eater abilities is actually worse for the class. If I wanted this class, I'd take a couple levels in... I dunno, Barbarian or Warblade or something that gives me a couple of nice bonuses instead of the last few levels.

TheThan
2009-08-23, 12:08 AM
Here's a question: Why is it that the void eater levels are what causes the DC to go up? Shouldn't the spell/caster level of the spell he's trying to absorb/AMF he's trying to ignore matter?

The last levels are, in fact, completely terrible to take; bad save bonuses, no abilities, and increasing the DC of his void eater abilities is actually worse for the class. If I wanted this class, I'd take a couple levels in... I dunno, Barbarian or Warblade or something that gives me a couple of nice bonuses instead of the last few levels.

There is supposed to be a clause that prevents this class from being multi-classed into or out of it. So once youíve decided to use this class, youíre stuck with it. I just simply forgot to put it in.

I am aware there is nothing on the last two levels, I simply havenít been able to think up something for those yet.

As for the DCs, I wanted to prevent the auto pass feature of having high ranks in that skill (concentration). Its one of those wonky things about the rules that you can take advantage of that I wanted to stop. So making it scale with character level means that there will at least always be a chance of failure. At least I hope so, I havenít checked the math yet, I just put in what I though would work.

Milskidasith
2009-08-23, 12:15 AM
There's no chance of failure on any of them with simply maxing out con... if you have a positive constitution modifier or something else adding to constitution, it's easy.

Auto succeeding is a pretty important thing, honestly. Making it possible to fail just makes a weak class weaker.

Godskook
2009-08-23, 10:07 AM
From what I can tell, the concentration checks are all 10+level/2, which is a really easy check to make, past like L1 or so. Assuming 16 starting con(likely a low assumption, with a class that relies on making concentration checks), and max ranks, he'll have +7 to con checks at L1, and by L10, he'll have +16, which is already an auto-pass.

Although, I agree that the checks shouldn't be too much more outlandish than this(10+level would not be unreasonable, though), since if you make them too high, you get into truenamer issues.

TheThan
2009-08-23, 11:18 AM
From what I can tell, the concentration checks are all 10+level/2, which is a really easy check to make, past like L1 or so. Assuming 16 starting con(likely a low assumption, with a class that relies on making concentration checks), and max ranks, he'll have +7 to con checks at L1, and by L10, he'll have +16, which is already an auto-pass.

Although, I agree that the checks shouldn't be too much more outlandish than this(10+level would not be unreasonable, though), since if you make them too high, you get into truenamer issues.

Yeah, the idea is to not make the concentration checks ridiculously hard, but neither to make them auto pass. I think I might have to push them up to 10+ void eater level). i think the player who though the idea up has 18 con already, so yeah.