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Frerezar
2009-08-24, 03:56 PM
Im making a small gauntlet one man challenge in a few days, and I was thinking maybe using The Tomb of Horrors as its scenario.
Ive been told many many times that it is a no hold bars meat grinder, so I wanted to know if it would be appropiate to use it as a gauntlet challenge for lvl 15 optimized solo characters.

Myou
2009-08-24, 04:07 PM
Given that (as I recall) it's aimed at level 9 party or so, I think a level 15 might find the traps too easy, and the combats a bit hard.

Starscream
2009-08-24, 04:16 PM
Tomb of Horrors is different in that it's mostly based around traps rather than combat. The cleverness of the players matters more than their actual builds.

kestrel404
2009-08-24, 04:21 PM
Also, from what I've heard (never actually played through it), there are many instances of 'do X and die', as well as 'don't do X and die'. So, level is not terribly relevant (as no rolls are involved in the 'and die' options).

Also, the end boss is probably strictly impossible to defeat, as 1d4 characters die at the beginning of the encounter (Yup, minimum of 1 dead PC at the START of the encounter).

qcbtnsrm
2009-08-24, 04:54 PM
Also, from what I've heard (never actually played through it), there are many instances of 'do X and die', as well as 'don't do X and die'. So, level is not terribly relevant (as no rolls are involved in the 'and die' options).

Also, the end boss is probably strictly impossible to defeat, as 1d4 characters die at the beginning of the encounter (Yup, minimum of 1 dead PC at the START of the encounter).
The 3.5 re-issue isn't that bad, but it is brutal. Search, Lockpick and Disable Device DCs regularly in the 30s and 40s. And almost all of them are really intended to be avoided not defeated through skill use.

The last encounter has a Fort 23 save or lose (and probably die) at will. He is also immune to magic (construct style), has high DR, etc. So he can be brutal for an unoptimized standard party.

Of course with a Batman style wizard and an Orb of... well any of them really, the boss goes down in 1-2 rounds (assuming our Batman survives the Fort 23 attack).

Frerezar
2009-08-24, 05:03 PM
Well they are not meant to make it to the end. I am looking for something that will stop ANY character in his tracks eventually. I plan on running many PCs through that thing one by one, and depending on how far they get ill give them points. Whatever character acumulates more points in the end gets the crown.
So i need something to know if being lvl 15 optimized characters will make it survivablem in most of the cases.

Tiki Snakes
2009-08-24, 05:16 PM
Open it up to any class, as in things that can't trap-find. Then have some kind of deadly-time limit device hurry them along.

Wall of slowly advancing magma? Rooms filling with Sand?
Perhaps the entire thing has been torn from the normal planes, and is essentially in space, so the air in the Tomb is slowly rupturing into the void and the only way out lies at the end, yada yada.

but yes, being optimised lvl 15's could very well make it survivable, the remake at least. Perhaps you should raise the DC's and save DC's up to "Ha, if you roll 20 maybe?" to better model the old feel, whilst still dangling the carrot of continued existence?

Frerezar
2009-08-24, 05:26 PM
time hurry is a nice addition. All this characters will also fight on an arena, so they will mostly be fighting machines, which makes them less likely to be prepared for trap stuff.
Well thanks for all the advice, anything else will be appreciated.

Zergrusheddie
2009-08-24, 10:12 PM
The warning is Tomb of Horrors is the best advice that can possibly be given. "If your players like to kill things and get rewards more than anything else, they will not like this adventure."

As a solo Arena style thing, there is no chance that anyone will beat it. The DR on the final boss is like 30/- and it's SR is stupid crazy high, so no Skill Monkey or Caster is getting through it solo. There are also the "No Save, take 20d20 damage" trap that is virtually impossible to avoid; someone is getting hit, so no Fighter is getting through it. Maybe a Gestalt has a chance, but otherwise it is just too vicious.

Aharon
2009-08-25, 08:17 AM
It's DR 20/keen or vorpal weapon.
Keen isn't that hard to get, the problem is you don't know in advance you need it.
It has 49 hit points, and Initiative +0.

Death ward doesn't protect against the soul suck, so you pretty much have to kill it on the first round.

The DCs are high. I found one Open Lock DC 41 (Break DC 31), hardness 7, 100 hp, so at 9th level, power attacking, the door should be gone very fast, another reinforced Steel Door with Open Lock DC 45, yet another Open Lock DC 45 on a valve, one Search DC 35, and the list goes on...

However, the traps aren't nearly as deadly in 3rd edition as they were in the previous ones, due to more HP.
For example, there is a crushing room that deals 12d6 damage. That's 42 on average - enough to kill most standard (3d6, average Con 11) or even non-standard (4d6) 2nd ed characters, because bonus hit points began at Con 16. But even a normal 9th level 3rd Ed wizard (Con 14) will have 40.5 Hp and survive with about 53% likelihood (Unless the DM rules that the dying character can't move enough to heal himself after he has become stable).

Of course, it gets cheesy if the characters use their vast array of magic. For example, the Demonic Host protecting the Tomb, as written, only reacts to ethereal movement. Other ways of completely bypassing the tomb which didn't exist in 2nd ed, or weren't available to the players, remain.

TL;DR: It's quite hard, but not as hard as in earlier editions.