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Waargh!
2009-08-25, 06:59 AM
Role: Striker
Power Source: Martial
Key Abilities: Intelligence, Dexterity
Armor Proficiency: Cloth
Weapon Proficiency: Simple Melee/Ranged Weapons , Ninjato (Heavy Blade, 1d8, high-crit), Short Sword, Shuriken
Bonus To Defense: +2 Reflex

Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution Score
Hit Points per level: 5
Healing Surges Per Day: 6 + Constitution Modifier

Trained Skills: Stealth, Thievery, Acrobatis, Athletics. Choose 1 from:
Bluff, Perception, Intimidate

Class Features

-First Strike
-Sniper (when ranged attack misses you stay hidden)
-Silent Blade
When you make a melee attack with light blade or ninjato and it misses you stay hidden. The target knows that someone attacked him but doesn't know from where the attack came.
-Silent Step
When you move more than 2 squares you dont get the -5 penaldy to stealth checks. When you run you get a -5 penaldy isntead of -10.
-Shadow Step
You may try and hide while you are being observed. Make a stealth check opposed by any enemy observing you. You get a -10 penaldy to your stealth check. If you succeed you use your stealth skill normally as you where not observed by that enemy. If you fail you cannot hide from that enemy.
-Poison User
You get the Creat Poison feat (you can make poisons from basic components)
In addition, poisons applied to a weapon last for one day or until used (not for one encounter or 5 min). At last, you may ably 2 poisons in one weapon. You get two secondary attacks with a -2 penaldy to both.
-Ninja training
You get a +3 bonus to Stealth, Acrobatics and Athletics

-Assasinate (At-Will, Minor, Range 10)
Choose one target.
Until the end of your turn, when you attack the target while you are hidden you can deliver a devastating attack. You can only use a power that has the assasinate key word for this attack and you must use a weapon from the list above. If you hit with the attack it deals maximized damage. Only the first attack is a critical hit, in case of multiple attacks.

Some sample powers
Powers At-Will
Tricky Strike (Standar, Melee/Ranged Weapon)
Inteligence vs AC
Hit: 1[W] + Inteligence modifier damge
Special: When you have combat advantage against the target you get +2 bonus to this attack

Swift Blade (Standard, Melee Weapon)
Inteligence vs AC
Hit: 1[W] + Inteligence modifier damge
Special: You may swift 2 squares before or after the attack. The attack must be delivered with a light blade or a Ninjato

Shuriken Attack (Standard, Ranged Weapon)
Target: 1 or 2 targets
Inteligence vs AC
Hit: 1[W] + Inteligence modifier damage
Special: If you target 2 targets you must be wielding 2 shurikens before you can use this attack

Precise Attack (Standard, Melee/Ranged Weapon, Assasinate)
Inteligence + 2 vs AC
Hit: 1[W] + Inteligence modifier damage
Special: If you have moved during your last turn this attack automatically misses

Finishing Blow (Standard, Melee/Ranged Weapon, Assasinate)
Inteligence - 2 vs AC
Hit: 2[W] + Inteligence modifier damage

Powers Encounter
Air Attack (Standard, Melee Weapon, Assasinate)
Inteligence vs AC
Hit: 3[W] + Inteligence modifier damage
Special: You must be higher than the height of the target or this attack automatically misses. You can use the jump action in order to gain height as part of this attack

Killing Blow (Standard, Melee Weapon, Assasinate)
Inteligence - 4 vs AC
Hit: 4[W] + Inteligence modifier damage

Utilities
One with the Shadows (Encounter, Minor Action)
You become invisible until the end of your next turn

Daily
Crippling Strike (Standard, Melee/Ranged Weapon, Assasinate)
Inteligence vs AC
Hit: 2[W] + Inteligence modifier damage
Secondary Attack (same target):
Inteligence vs Fortitude
Hit:1[W] + Inteligence modifier damage and the target is imobilized and
takes 5 ongoing damage (save ends both)
Miss: Half damage
Special: You may swift 2 squares after this attack

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Tell me your points of view

Yakk
2009-08-25, 09:33 AM
Levels on many powers are missing.

Did you intend this to be a class that uses fullblades? Because as written, Finishing Blow with a fullblade and assasinate is the way to deal your best damage at-will. Mechanics should be built around the expected style of the character.

Balance-wise, auto-crit causes problems.

I'd be tempted to go down the 'poison' route, and have class features and powers that revolve around it.

Waargh!
2009-08-25, 11:09 AM
Yeah, there are only some sample powers. Just to gen an idea, didn't focus that match on the powers.

Should add that Assasinate can be used only with Ninja weapons.

Should also change auto-crit to maximize damage. So you wont add extra damage from high-crit and magic weapons

Now, it should be balanced.

Finishing Blow will do with assasinate and a Ninjato: 2x8 + int. Not that much. A rogue would get 1d8 + dex + 2d6. A little less damage average, but can do it more often. And a brutal rogue can add also str. And a ninja will have a -2 to attack.
Other powers that deal more [W] would do more damage. But that is the intention. For the Ninja to do more damage than other strikers when he plans a "killing attack", while hidden. That is his job after all.

Generally, I would like a poison-user class. Poisons are kind of expensive to use all the time. And you will generally have to lose a standard action to apply them. If you have them nice. But I don't think a lot of players will go crazy for buying them.

The ninja will be able to avoid the standard action. Can use two poisons with some penaldy (though most poisons don't really stack with each other). And make them hiself. Still poisons cost money and they are only for the first attack so he will only use them once in a while against really difficult opponents.
He will also probably have powers that let him benefit more from poisons. Maybe daily ones and utilities.

Also, added a +3 bonus to stealth skill as well.

Draz74
2009-08-25, 01:20 PM
I thought the online-only Assassin class for [4e] was essentially a Ninja? In any case I have a hard time with Ninja being "Martial" power source rather than "Shadow."

Edit: Of course, if you already know about the Assassin and you like yours better, that's all well and good. I just thought maybe all the work you want done has already nicely been done for you.

Waargh!
2009-08-25, 01:41 PM
Unfortunately, I don't know about the Assassin class so can't really say

EDIT: Looking a bit I found this: http://www.critical-hits.com/2009/08/14/gencon-4e-preview-the-assassin/
which is a more "supernatural" approach of what I had in mind

lesser_minion
2009-08-25, 02:11 PM
I thought the online-only Assassin class for [4e] was essentially a Ninja? In any case I have a hard time with Ninja being "Martial" power source rather than "Shadow."

Edit: Of course, if you already know about the Assassin and you like yours better, that's all well and good. I just thought maybe all the work you want done has already nicely been done for you.

Why would the ninja have a supernatural power source? In 4e, it's not like it really needs one. Plus, real-world ninjas and shinobi are sufficiently awesome without any supernatural assistance (with all due respect, it's pirates who need that if anyone... sorry, j/k).

I don't think there would really be an issue with upgrading the armour proficiency to leather. Depending on your desired pseudohistorical accuracy level, you might want to offer them a couple of disguise-orientated utilities, and possibly a social one.

There are quite a lot of skills associated with ninjas, so giving them such a restricted list might not be the best idea.

Mando Knight
2009-08-25, 03:16 PM
Question: What does this class do flavor and ability-wise that a Rogue can't? (other than wield a heavy blade that looks like an increased-damage scimitar and an undefined proficiency bonus)

lesser_minion
2009-08-25, 03:33 PM
Question: What does this class do flavor and ability-wise that a Rogue can't? (other than wield a heavy blade that looks like an increased-damage scimitar and an undefined proficiency bonus)

From a flavour standpoint, a 'real' ninja was little more than an extremely highly trained rogue. The main thing a ninja would bring to the table is a focus on disguise, but even then, that could mostly be done in 4e by writing a few new powers for the rogue.

Saying that, a ninja/shinobi could potentially be teased out into a fully developed class. It wouldn't even have to be a Striker - The ninja might be able to make a martial primary controller/secondary striker as an alternative route. Add a couple of gadgets and traps (a D&D ninja would have no trouble justifying these), powers which allow the ninja to bring those traps/gadgets into play, and a few movement capabilities, and you would have something that could potentially be teased out into a very different sort of controller.

Mando Knight
2009-08-25, 03:41 PM
From a flavour standpoint, a 'real' ninja was little more than an extremely highly trained rogue. The main thing a ninja would bring to the table is a focus on disguise, but even then, that could mostly be done in 4e by writing a few new powers for the rogue.
Disguise is just an application of the Bluff skill... and things like the Changeling race and the Hat of Disguise item cover that pretty well, IMO.

Waargh!
2009-08-25, 04:08 PM
Agreed that the class list is limited. As for the armor, probably write. Or better give him a bonus on defense. I would give him a +3 when not wearing armor,

A ninja would be more similar to rogue than to a ranger lets say. But they won't be the same. A ninja won't deal that much damage when he is not hidden, so players would focus more on stealth. A rogue can just flank an enemy. Out of battle, skillwise a ninja will have higher acrobatis, athletics and stealth. A rogue would have one extra trained skill though.

As for bluff and disguise I would consider them more rogue like abilities. But in any case another class can be created which focus on disguise, misguide and maybe illusions.

A rogue is not an assassin. He fights dirty yeah. But he is an opportunist. A ninja on the other hand is a proffesional killer with some focus on his acrobatic/athletics skills which should be used on some powers (like air attack) or another class feature.

Shadow_Elf
2009-08-25, 09:41 PM
I gave up on making a Ninja in favour of a few class ideas I doubted WotC would do. However, you're welcome to pilfer anything you want from my version of the ninja, found in this thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108082).