Ideas For Core Class/PrC Changes

[Jergmo]

These are some of the ideas I've been working on for changes to class; please share your thoughts on them! :smallsmile: (Note: The changes to make prestige classes quicker to obtain are due to the fact that so many variant book PrC's can be taken after level 5. If you have ideas for classes I haven't mentioned, please share those as well.

Arcane Archer
Base Attack Bonus requirement lowered to +5, Elf or half-elf requirement removed.

Arcane Trickster
Spellcasting requirements lowered to at least one arcane spell of 2nd level.

Blackguard
Base Attack Bonus requirement lowered to +5.

Cleric
A cleric may choose between being a battle cleric or a full spellcaster. If a cleric chooses to become a full spellcaster, they gain the Spell Point pool (if applicable) of a wizard as well as a wizard's armor and weapon proficiencies and hit die progression.

Druid
Druids may sacrifice the ability to gain an animal companion in favor of gaining one of the following domains: Plant, Animal, Earth, Fire, Water, Air, Weather.

Druids in animal form retain their base attributes and lose their physical racial attributes while in
animal form.

Duelist
Base Attack Bonus requirement reduced to +5.
Canny Defense: Remove the "per duelist class level" part.
Precise Strike: Changed to first level. +2d6 at level 3, +3d6 at level 5, +4d6 at level 7, and +5d6 at level 9.

Dwarven Defender
Base Attack Bonus requirement reduced to +5.

Loremaster
Reduce Knowledge rank requirements to 8 and the metamagic or item creation feat requirements to two.

Monks
Body Manipulation: At 8th level, the monk further masters his physique and gains the ability to boost his physical statistics, gaining a +2 bonus to Str, Dex, and Con once per day for a number of rounds equal to 3+ wisdom modifier.
Body Control (Ex): At third level, +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects from the school of Transmutation, since his studies and introspection give him insights into and better control over his body.
At 5th level, the monk gains the ability to remove fatigue or reduce exhaustion to fatigue 1/day.

Rangers
Ranger level for determining animal companion is level -3 rather than 1/2 level.

Shadowdancer
Lowered required ranks in Hide to 8. Dismissing a shadow does not incur an experience penalty. Shadow Illusion can be used at will. A shadowdancer's shadow companion starts with +2 HD.

Sorcerers
At first level, Sorcerers gain Eschew Materials as a bonus feat.
A sorcerer can choose to learn any number of new arcane spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list in place of sorcerer spells he already knows, effectively exchanging them. All new spells learned in this way must be of the same level as the ones they replace. To do so, they must enter a state of meditation lasting eight hours without inerruption, succeeding on a Concentration check equal to 15 + highest spell level exchanged.
Innate Arcana (Ex): Sorcerers use their Charisma modifier rather than Intelligence for Knowledge(Arcana) and Spellcraft checks whenever his Charisma modifier is higher than his Intelligence modifier.
Force of Personality (Ex): Sorcerers add their Charisma modifier to Will saves instead of their Wisdom modifier if it's higher.
Improved Eschew Materials (Su): Starting at 5th level, the sorcerer can cast any sorcerer spell that has a material component or focus worth 100 gp or less without needing that component or focus.

Wizards
Specialist wizards do not ban schools; instead, spells from penalized schools have a cost equal to one spell level higher. 9th level spells for penalized schools cost 24 points. (if applicable)

[Rainbownaga]

2 questions

1.What do you mean by the wizard's spell point pool?

2.What do you mean by druids keeping their base attributes minus their racial attributes? If an elf druid with 12 strength and 14 dex turned into a dire bear, does that mean it would have 12 strength and 12 dex??

[Jergmo]

2 questions

1.What do you mean by the wizard's spell point pool?

2.What do you mean by druids keeping their base attributes minus their racial attributes? If an elf druid with 12 strength and 14 dex turned into a dire bear, does that mean it would have 12 strength and 12 dex??

I use the Spell Point variant rather than Vancian Magic. The druid has base attributes of 12 str and 12 dex, with a +2 modifier. That +2 modifier is removed and replaced with the dire bear's modifiers. Animal forms are a little tougher and strength/dex are no longer dump stats.

[Omegonthesane]

Spell points aren't really balanced, because of what spells cost. The costs go up linearly whereas the power goes up quadratically - same problem with fighters vs casters in general. I'd make all spell costs a function of (spell level * spell level), has playtesting for ballpark figures been done?
How about...

L1 spell = (1x1)/2 points = 1 point (always round up)
L2 spell = (2x2)/2 points = 2 points. Huh.
L3 spell = (3x3)/2 points = 5 points (_always_ round up)
L4 spell = (4x4)/2 points = 8 points
L5 spell.... = 13 points
L6 spell.... = 18 points
L7 spell.... = 25 points
L8 spell.... = 32 points
L9 spell.... = 41 points

Better thought out fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122654) if you dont' even wanna playest my one.

[Myou]

Spell points aren't really balanced, because of what spells cost. The costs go up linearly whereas the power goes up quadratically - same problem with fighters vs casters in general. I'd make all spell costs a function of (spell level * spell level), has playtesting for ballpark figures been done?
How about...

L1 spell = (1x1)/2 points = 1 point (always round up)
L2 spell = (2x2)/2 points = 2 points. Huh.
L3 spell = (3x3)/2 points = 5 points (_always_ round up)
L4 spell = (4x4)/2 points = 8 points
L5 spell.... = 13 points
L6 spell.... = 18 points
L7 spell.... = 25 points
L8 spell.... = 32 points
L9 spell.... = 41 points

Better thought out fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122654) if you dont' even wanna playest my one.

Holy Word! I got linked by someone! I feel like a celebrity! :smallbiggrin:

[Glimbur]

Doesn't this make Druids even more physically powerful? A standard animal has an array of all 11's and 10's, so its modifier is doing the heavy lifting anyway. This means Druids can have even more Str and Dex in animal forms than they could before.

[deuxhero]

If you are changing the class, I would kill the blackguard's hide requirments and replace it with intimidate.

[Boci]

Arcane Archer
Base Attack Bonus requirement lowered to +5, Elf or half-elf requirement removed.

It also needs its own casting. Maybe 5 or 6 out of 10.


Arcane Trickster
Spellcasting requirements lowered to at least one arcane spell of 2nd level.

Up the hit die and skill points to d6 and 8 per level and allow them to fuel their x/day abilities by sacrificing spell slots if they want to.




Blackguard
Base Attack Bonus requirement lowered to +5.

Really needs an entire remake. Its underpowered and rendered useless with the paladin variants.


Cleric
A cleric may choose between being a battle cleric or a full spellcaster. If a cleric chooses to become a full spellcaster, they gain the Spell Point pool (if applicable) of a wizard as well as a wizard's armor and weapon proficiencies and hit die progression.

So closister cleric?


Druid
Druids may sacrifice the ability to gain an animal companion in favor of gaining one of the following domains: Plant, Animal, Earth, Fire, Water, Air, Weather.

Seems interesting enough. What about the turn abilities related to those domains?


Druids in animal form retain their base attributes and lose their physical racial attributes while in
animal form.

I'm not quite sure I get this, although if its what I think it is it makes sense and doesn't involve too much extra book keeping.


Duelist
Base Attack Bonus requirement reduced to +5.
Canny Defense: Remove the "per duelist class level" part.
Precise Strike: Changed to first level. +2d6 at level 3, +3d6 at level 5, +4d6 at level 7, and +5d6 at level 9.

Sure, why not.


Dwarven Defender
Base Attack Bonus requirement reduced to +5.

They also need some ability to make them more mobil whilst in their stance. Give them the 5ft step much earlier and the ability to move at half their speed as a cap stone.


Loremaster
Reduce Knowledge rank requirements to 8 and the metamagic or item creation feat requirements to two.

Sure, why not.


Monks
Body Manipulation: At 8th level, the monk further masters his physique and gains the ability to boost his physical statistics, gaining a +2 bonus to Str, Dex, and Con once per day for a number of rounds equal to 3+ wisdom modifier.

I'd let them choose 1 and keep the bonus permanently. Monks are so MAD it would be a nice bonus.


Body Control (Ex): At third level, +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects from the school of Transmutation, since his studies and introspection give him insights into and better control over his body.
At 5th level, the monk gains the ability to remove fatigue or reduce exhaustion to fatigue 1/day.

Just make it at will as a full round action.


Rangers
Ranger level for determining animal companion is level -3 rather than 1/2 level.

Good idea.


Shadowdancer
Lowered required ranks in Hide to 8. Dismissing a shadow does not incur an experience penalty. Shadow Illusion can be used at will. A shadowdancer's shadow companion starts with +2 HD.

And give them sneak attack. Possibly only 3d6, but full wouldn't hurt.


Sorcerers
At first level, Sorcerers gain Eschew Materials as a bonus feat.
A sorcerer can choose to learn any number of new arcane spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list in place of sorcerer spells he already knows, effectively exchanging them. All new spells learned in this way must be of the same level as the ones they replace. To do so, they must enter a state of meditation lasting eight hours without inerruption, succeeding on a Concentration check equal to 15 + highest spell level exchanged.
Innate Arcana (Ex): Sorcerers use their Charisma modifier rather than Intelligence for Knowledge(Arcana) and Spellcraft checks whenever his Charisma modifier is higher than his Intelligence modifier.
Force of Personality (Ex): Sorcerers add their Charisma modifier to Will saves instead of their Wisdom modifier if it's higher.
Improved Eschew Materials (Su): Starting at 5th level, the sorcerer can cast any sorcerer spell that has a material component or focus worth 100 gp or less without needing that component or focus.

Good. Also, remove the delayed casting.


Wizards
Specialist wizards do not ban schools; instead, spells from penalized schools have a cost equal to one spell level higher. 9th level spells for penalized schools cost 24 points. (if applicable)

Sounds good enough, although I don't have much expirience with spell points.

[The Witch-King]

Druid
Druids may sacrifice the ability to gain an animal companion in favor of gaining one of the following domains: Plant, Animal, Earth, Fire, Water, Air, Weather.

I certainly favor giving Druids access to domains--even a wider selection than what's presented here--but is a domain the equal of an animal companion?






Blackguard
Base Attack Bonus requirement lowered to +5

Really needs an entire remake. Its underpowered and rendered useless with the paladin variants.

Seconded. And on top of all of that--it's just plain dull. The whole dang concept needs work.

[Omegonthesane]

Seconded. And on top of all of that--it's just plain dull. The whole dang concept needs work.
I dunno. Evil fiendish warrior is a good concept to run with. More specific maybe - Sneak Attack does not belong in a conventional meat-shield class. I'd split it into Craven(?) Blackguard (d8 hit die, focus on dishonourable stealth and deceit) and Brutal(?) Blackguard (d12 hit die, get power to do vile damage and rebuke fiends like undead). Alternately, rename Craven Blackguard to just plain Blackguard and Brutal Blackguard to Dark Knight.

For a moment there I wasn't convinced by boosting caster level with Arcane Archer, then I saw Imbue Arrow.

I'd increase the usage/day of all the other special arrow powers. Except Arrow of Death, because SoD effects are annoying.

[Boci]

I dunno. Evil fiendish warrior is a good concept to run with. More specific maybe - Sneak Attack does not belong in a conventional meat-shield class. I'd split it into Craven(?) Blackguard (d8 hit die, focus on dishonourable stealth and deceit) and Brutal(?) Blackguard (d12 hit die, get power to do vile damage and rebuke fiends like undead). Alternately, rename Craven Blackguard to just plain Blackguard and Brutal Blackguard to Dark Knight.

I actually quite like this idea. There have also been some remakes of the class, some are pretty good, given the PrC a semblance of origionality.


For a moment there I wasn't convinced by boosting caster level with Arcane Archer, then I saw Imbue Arrow.

Some people remake the arcane archer as a base class, a ranged duskblade. If it wants to stay a PrC, any remake that does not give it extra caster levels auto fails.


I'd increase the usage/day of all the other special arrow powers. Except Arrow of Death, because SoD effects are annoying.

Fair enough, but I'd rule it only takes 1 hour to make.

[Boci]

Threw this together for a craven blackguard, didn't take long but it should be decent frame work:

Craven Blackguard
Hit die: 1d8

Requirements:
Alignment: Any evil
Base attack bonus: +4
Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Move silently 4
Special: Sneaks attack: 1d6

BAB: As cleric
Good saves: Ref

Skills: 4 per level

Abilities:
1st level: Detect good, poison use, ignore ACP to hide and move silently
2nd: Fiendish servant
3rd: Sneak attack: +1d6
4th: Reduce SA by 1d6 to smite good. This affects targets immune to SA
5th: SA +2d6
6th: Grapple target as swift action to gain concealment for 1 round. If an attack misses you due to concealment, they take the damage. Requires one free hand and an opposed grapple check
7th: SA: +3d6
8th: By taking a -2 on attacks can target vulnerable area, automatically dealing SA
9th: SA: +4d6
10th: Shared pain: force target to succeed will save or take half all damage dealt to you

[deuxhero]

I wouldn't give ignore AP all at once, Dread Commando does a fixed minus (ignore 2 each time IIRC) over a few level.

[The Witch-King]

I dunno. Evil fiendish warrior is a good concept to run with. More specific maybe - Sneak Attack does not belong in a conventional meat-shield class. I'd split it into Craven(?) Blackguard (d8 hit die, focus on dishonourable stealth and deceit) and Brutal(?) Blackguard (d12 hit die, get power to do vile damage and rebuke fiends like undead). Alternately, rename Craven Blackguard to just plain Blackguard and Brutal Blackguard to Dark Knight.

Evil fiendish warrior is a good concept to run with but Blackguards do it so poorly.

It's "Oh, look, it's a Blackguard--someone made a Paladin and couldn't hack it."

It should be "Oh dear God--it's a Knight of the Burning Abyss! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE--run for your lives!" "RUN!? Run where? Quick--we have to kill the women and the children ourselves so he can't torture them, just defile their bodies and raise them as his flaming zombie slaves!"

But--yeah--I think they need to be more specific and I like what you've sketched out. Honestly, I think they need a third variant that trades in the sneak attack for more clerical oomph because in my mind nothing says evil like tapping the unholy might of blasphemous powers from beyond. And Domains! Gotta have domains--cause I know I don't want to fight some dude in spiky armor who's domains are Wifebeating and Sodomy.

Oooh, oooh, oooh--he needs an ability to like kill people and then turn their skulls into flaming/negative energy incendiary missiles and then throw them at other people!

And as for Sneak Attack--it just needs something to go with it. You can do sneak attack damage if you're flanking an opponent--which neatly works as dirty fighting. He just needs some way to use it by himself--like throwing dirt in the other guy's face so he can't see for a moment while he slips to one side and then neatly skewers him in the spleen or maybe an aura of darkness or Boots of Testicle Kicking or something like that.

[Omegonthesane]

Evil fiendish warrior is a good concept to run with but Blackguards do it so poorly.

It's "Oh, look, it's a Blackguard--someone made a Paladin and couldn't hack it."

It should be "Oh dear God--it's a Knight of the Burning Abyss! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE--run for your lives!" "RUN!? Run where? Quick--we have to kill the women and the children ourselves so he can't torture them, just defile their bodies and raise them as his flaming zombie slaves!"
How about a class that has d12 HD, full BaB, no SA, and turns slowly into a fiend? I was thinking add "Must sell your soul to an evil outsider" as a requirement, but do I want to make 3 different fiendish ability progressions for LE/NE/CE?
I was also thinking of replacing Smite Good with a faster-progressing Vile Strike that works on anything and causes the attack to deal vile damage, instead of - or in addition to - normal Smite effects.


But--yeah--I think they need to be more specific and I like what you've sketched out. Honestly, I think they need a third variant that trades in the sneak attack for more clerical oomph because in my mind nothing says evil like tapping the unholy might of blasphemous powers from beyond. And Domains! Gotta have domains--cause I know I don't want to fight some dude in spiky armor who's domains are Wifebeating and Sodomy.
This imagery would be better achieved by starting with the Evil Cleric and giving them some kind of Diabolist/Demonologist flavour full-spellcasting class. There's the Thaumaturgist for a demon summoner, but we want an anti-paladin who just happens to spend more time casting than fighting. How about full BaB, lose 1 caster level, and turn into a fiend in a 5-level PrC? Not to mention gaining the Evil domain as a bonus if you don't already have it...


And as for Sneak Attack--it just needs something to go with it. You can do sneak attack damage if you're flanking an opponent--which neatly works as dirty fighting. He just needs some way to use it by himself--like throwing dirt in the other guy's face so he can't see for a moment while he slips to one side and then neatly skewers him in the spleen or maybe an aura of darkness or Boots of Testicle Kicking or something like that.
While I'm opposed for this for the more fighty Blackguard - it smacks to me of cowardice, whereas being a 'normal' anti-paladin requires about as much bravery (if not any other virtue) as being a paladin - there's already a Craven Blackguard feature that does that:

8th: By taking a -2 on attacks can target vulnerable area, automatically dealing SA