PDA

View Full Version : (3.5) Statting up Lucifer as an overdeity



maniakmastah
2009-09-01, 11:00 PM
Hey ya'll, it's me again. This time i'm trying to think of stuff that would fit for making an Overdeity, and the one in particular being the Morningstar, Lucifer

http://www.popanime.net/megami/wiki/index.php?title=Lucifer

What kind of levels, powers, abilities, stats, and other things do you think would fit for making Lucifer an overdeity in my game.

deuxhero
2009-09-01, 11:02 PM
Aren't over deitys the guys who (like Cain) come with one rule "You lose"?

I think you are looking for greater deity.

Mystic Muse
2009-09-01, 11:09 PM
from the descriptions I've heard of him Asmodeus is D&D's version of Lucifer. Extremely intelligent, Extremely handsome and extremely powerful.

oh and are you looking for post fall or pre fall Lucifer? That could affect things a bit.

Jallorn
2009-09-01, 11:13 PM
I should point out (backing up the whole Asmodeus as DND's Lucifer) that Asmodeus is either an old obscure name for the devil, or just a really really powerful demon, not sure which though.

The Tygre
2009-09-01, 11:14 PM
Oh, I thought you meant the Vertigo version...

Mystic Muse
2009-09-01, 11:17 PM
I should point out (backing up the whole Asmodeus as DND's Lucifer) that Asmodeus is either an old obscure name for the devil, or just a really really powerful demon, not sure which though.

actually a lot of the lords of the nine hells are just different names for the devil. Beelzebub, Belial, Mammon and I bet if I searched through it more I could find more.

Flickerdart
2009-09-01, 11:28 PM
Mephistopheles, Asmodeus, Dispater. Seems like that's all of the Demon Princes. I would look through the Demon Lords but there are way too many of them.

maniakmastah
2009-09-01, 11:43 PM
I was thinking of basing him more on the Shin Megami Tensei aspect of Lucifer, being that he was the most powerful angel in heaven, cast out for going against the will of God and becoming the Lord of Chaos, fighting against God, who he and the rest of those cast out have come to call "The True Enemy". I've always loved the morally ambiguous nature of the Megaten series, especially Lucifer. I'm just thinking about how he should be statted out and roleplayed as to fit this aspect. Overdeity would be better because he'd still be powerful, and if i remembered, one of Lucifer's biggest personality traits was that he didn't want people to worship him, but to follow their own paths.

Mystic Muse
2009-09-01, 11:46 PM
I was thinking of basing him more on the Shin Megami Tensei aspect of Lucifer, being that he was the most powerful angel in heaven, cast out for going against the will of God and becoming the Lord of Chaos, fighting against God, who he and the rest of those cast out have come to call "The True Enemy". I've always loved the morally ambiguous nature of the Megaten series, especially Lucifer. I'm just thinking about how he should be statted out and roleplayed as to fit this aspect. Overdeity would be better because he'd still be powerful, and if i remembered, one of Lucifer's biggest personality traits was that he didn't want people to worship him, but to follow their own paths.



ah. I know nothing about shin megami tensei.

FYI if you're going for biblical Lucifer at any point send me a PM. I know a little bit about biblical legends. (legend doesn't preclude the story form being false but it also gives the possibility they're false. probably the best word to use here.)

maniakmastah
2009-09-01, 11:49 PM
ah. I know nothing about shin megami tensei.

FYI if you're going for biblical Lucifer at any point send me a PM. I know a little bit about biblical legends. (legend doesn't preclude the story form being false but it also gives the possibility they're false. probably the best word to use here.)

Thanks, i'm always looking for new inspirations to draw upon while still keeping things close to what people have heard about.

hamishspence
2009-09-03, 01:48 PM
Necromancer Games statted him out, I think, in Tome of Horrors, as a CR75 archfiend, rather thn a true deity.

The backstory had him, and his allies, including Lilith, driven out of Hell by Asmodeus, and setting up in their own plane of Infernus.

Myou
2009-09-03, 02:27 PM
*Looks at the picture.*

Beatific Visage (Su): Any creature that sees Lucifer in the flesh must make a will save (DC 10 + Lucifer's Hit Dice + Lucifer's Charisma modifier) or fall instantly in love with him, becoming unable to in any way act against him, and acting as if under a Geas/Quest to seek out and court him.


I failed my save. x3

Mystic Muse
2009-09-03, 02:36 PM
actually I forgot. Asmodeus WOULDN'T be Lucifer because Lucifer is supposed to look absolutely horrid after his fall. All his angelic grace is supposed disappeared after the betrayal.

just FYI

so it sounds like Lucifer is Cthulhu.:smallbiggrin:

maniakmastah
2009-09-03, 10:40 PM
*Looks at the picture.*

Beatific Visage (Su): And creature that sees Lucifer in the flesh must make a will save (DC 10 + Lucifer's Hit Dice + Lucifer's Charisma modifier) or fall instantly in love with him, becoming unable to in any way act against him, and acting as if under a Geas/Quest to seek out and court him.


I failed my save. x3

LOL, that's an evil wicked deliciously genius special ability. I might just use that. Here's the bare bones info i'm basing him on

1] Cast out by the "True Enemy" *hint hint* for interacting with and falling in love with a mortal. Managed to gather others who believed that mortal shouldn't be mere tools to the True Enemy

2]Ascended to deity status through sheer power and will, as well as using powers given to him by those who fell with him and now swear loyalty to Lucifer.

3]Gathered together others who have been cast out or been caught up in the schemes of Lucifer's enemies, giving them a new home and a new cause to seek vengeance against their foes.

4]Strongly chaos aligned

5]Despite his deific power and ability, he has decreed to all his minions that non shall worship him as a god, lest they suffer his wrath.

If anyone has any other ideas that would fit, i'm all ears.

Mystic Muse
2009-09-03, 10:54 PM
so wait. is HE supposed to be the goodguy in this campaign?

maniakmastah
2009-09-04, 12:48 AM
so wait. is HE supposed to be the goodguy in this campaign?

That's kinda hard to say, since i wanna show both good and bad aspects of both Lucifer's personality based here. He'd be charismatic, but he essentially brings chaos and instability wherever he goes. As "True Enemy" in my game is aligned with Law, he'd basically bring unrest and upheavel wherever his influence reaches. In the Megaten series, Lucifer was aligned with Chaos, and Chaos extends various aspects from freedom and self expression to savagery and basically "only the strong survive" life. I want to reflect these aspects and more, as i've never felt like showing one side to be wholly good or evil. It's confusing i know, but i've always felt that good and evil are hard to dictate.

Golden-Esque
2009-09-04, 04:17 PM
Hey ya'll, it's me again. This time i'm trying to think of stuff that would fit for making an Overdeity, and the one in particular being the Morningstar, Lucifer

http://www.popanime.net/megami/wiki/index.php?title=Lucifer

What kind of levels, powers, abilities, stats, and other things do you think would fit for making Lucifer an overdeity in my game.

Typically, there is little mention of Over Deities in a campaign that uses them. The idea is that they are so powerful that they don't require worship. The Deities and Demigods book doesn't even give any stats or powers aimed at Over Deities. They're considered to be so powerful that if a player angred one, it goes something like this.

PC: I attack Lucifier.
DM: Okay. He blinks at your stupidity. You die.
PC: What? I don't get a saving throw?!
DM: What's your Fortitude save?
PC: +12.
DM: DC Infinity. Good luck.

maniakmastah
2009-09-06, 07:19 AM
Typically, there is little mention of Over Deities in a campaign that uses them. The idea is that they are so powerful that they don't require worship. The Deities and Demigods book doesn't even give any stats or powers aimed at Over Deities. They're considered to be so powerful that if a player angred one, it goes something like this.

PC: I attack Lucifier.
DM: Okay. He blinks at your stupidity. You die.
PC: What? I don't get a saving throw?!
DM: What's your Fortitude save?
PC: +12.
DM: DC Infinity. Good luck.

hmmmmm, good point, perhaps it would be best to make him a greater deity after all. But how would you make a deity that does not desire people to worship him powerful enough to be a threat to the other deities, especially his main enemy. Also, i like i said, i don't want to portray him as either too good or too evil, like how he was expelled. I've left it vague enough so that it's never known if he was cast out for protecting mortals, love, his own pride and arrogance, or what. I figure it's a good way to give him more depth.

Lysander
2009-09-06, 09:19 AM
Why not make him a level 666 blackguard? Makes sense given his background as a fallen servant of heaven. Then it's literally the number of the beast. That plus the ability to cast any divine or arcane spell.

Flickerdart
2009-09-06, 09:25 AM
Why not make him a level 666 blackguard? Makes sense given his background as a fallen servant of heaven. Then it's literally the number of the beast. That plus the ability to cast any divine or arcane spell.
Epic Blackguard sucks, it only advances Sneak Attack, Smite and bonus feats. And 666 class levels is pretty much "you lose" anyway, which is what it being avoided here. 666 levels of Commoner is better than everything except certain Epic spells and Salient Divine Abilities that are auto-win buttons in any case.

The Corinthian
2009-09-06, 06:23 PM
You do realize, there's nothing in the rules that demands a creature with DVR have any worshippers at all, right? Or even be a "god", as such? If I statted the Midgard Serpent, for example, I'd certainly give it DVR. Greater Deity should absolutely be sufficient, and might not even be necessary. I take it YHVH, Satan and Lucifer are the big three in this cosmology? And they're roughly equal, with YHVH being perhaps the strongest?

Then (assuming they need to be that powerful, but Shin Megami Tensei seems to be pretty epic in scope and scale, so I guess the do) I'd make them all DVR 18 greater deities.

Make Lucifer a 20-hd Outsider/Fatemaker 20/Ur-Priest 10/Mystic Theurge 10 or something crazy like that. (Fatemaker PRC from Planar Handbook, all about self-realization and being all you can be. Not very strong, but the abilities are cool.)

maniakmastah
2009-09-07, 06:47 PM
You do realize, there's nothing in the rules that demands a creature with DVR have any worshippers at all, right? Or even be a "god", as such? If I statted the Midgard Serpent, for example, I'd certainly give it DVR. Greater Deity should absolutely be sufficient, and might not even be necessary. I take it YHVH, Satan and Lucifer are the big three in this cosmology? And they're roughly equal, with YHVH being perhaps the strongest?

Then (assuming they need to be that powerful, but Shin Megami Tensei seems to be pretty epic in scope and scale, so I guess the do) I'd make them all DVR 18 greater deities.

Make Lucifer a 20-hd Outsider/Fatemaker 20/Ur-Priest 10/Mystic Theurge 10 or something crazy like that. (Fatemaker PRC from Planar Handbook, all about self-realization and being all you can be. Not very strong, but the abilities are cool.)

There will be other factions and deities that will come up (such as the 40K Chaos Gods), but for the most part, yup, YHVH (signifying law), Satan (though traditionally portrayed as the instrument of YHVH's judgement in Megaten, can certainly change and become the wild card), and Lucifer (signifying chaos) will be the three biggest forces in my campaign world, with their war being a major plot hook. Also the battles between their various factions are also a big part of my campaign.

I appreciate all the help from everyone, and if anyone has got any more ideas for either Lucifer, YHVH, or Satan, i'd love to hear them. Thank you all.

Faleldir
2009-09-07, 08:23 PM
Give him maximum ranks in Perform (fiddle). :smalltongue: