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View Full Version : [3.5 Build Advice] Survivalist



Fax Celestis
2009-09-05, 04:48 PM
Okay, I'm looking for build advice. Minimum level, thus far, is ECL 6, but a plan for later levels would be nice.

Main goal: I want high saves, evasion, mettle, and preferably a stat to AC and a stat to saves (if it's the same stat, all the better).

So far, the best I've been able to come up with is Monk 2/Hexblade 3/Duskblade 1, and then take two more levels of Hexblade before hitting up Enlightened Fist and Ascetic Mage.

However, I'm sure someone else can help me out here.

In instances where a class has a Pathfinder version, use that version. You can see any necessary changes here. (http://www.pathfindersrd.com)

Thrawn183
2009-09-05, 05:37 PM
Might I ask why Duskblade?

Fax Celestis
2009-09-05, 07:53 PM
Might I ask why Duskblade?

Actually, that's supposed to be 'Duskblade 1, and then two more levels of Duskblade..." Enlightened Fist needs CL 3, so I can either wait until Hex 6 or go Hex 3/Dusk 3 and get Channeling.

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-09-05, 08:04 PM
Grab a level of Pious Templar for Mettle, and either Pal 2 for Divine Grace or PlatKnight 5 for Bahamut's Grace, both graces are Charisma to all Saves and they both stack together.

Fax Celestis
2009-09-05, 08:10 PM
Grab a level of Pious Templar for Mettle, and either Pal 2 for Divine Grace or PlatKnight 5 for Bahamut's Grace, both graces are Charisma to all Saves and they both stack together.

Problem there is that it requires being good and/or faithful, something that this character doesn't exactly jive with. I guess I could go with Paladin of Tyranny or Slaughter, but that still doesn't quite fit.

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-09-05, 08:24 PM
Well Pious Templar doesn't need to be good,

Warblade 1 gives Int to Reflex saves and manuevers

I believe Fist of the Forest gives Con to something

Eldariel
2009-09-05, 08:26 PM
Well, the opening levels look good. One alternative would involve going full BAB and using Pious Templar [CDiv] for mettle and going for a more martial build OR going Suel Arcanamach afterwards into Sublime Chord (X 5/Pious Templar 1/Suel Arcanamach 4 qualifies provided you can get Bardic Music somehow) and then go on from there.

This would, unfortunately, miss out on Cha to AC for the time being though (you'd get it on level 9 by picking IUS as a feat). But it would be pretty hawt in the long run. But yea, I'd most likely go for a Suel Arcanamach-build anyways to get better casting quicker. Monk 2/Hexblade 3/Duskblade 1/Enlightened Fist 2/Suel Arcanamach 2/Arcane Duelist 2/Enlightened Fist +8


Gets you Cha to AC twice and Cha to saves and Evasion and Mettle and full Suel Arcanamach casting and level 10 of Enlightened Fist and semi-decent BAB (at least by fractionals; by straight BAB, so many medium BAB classes starts hurting). Uses Practiced Spellcaster to qualify for Enlightened Fist. Duskblade 3 could be subbed for Arcane Duelist to get Arcane Channeling instead, but meh.

SurlySeraph
2009-09-05, 08:29 PM
Problem there is that it requires being good and/or faithful, something that this character doesn't exactly jive with. I guess I could go with Paladin of Tyranny or Slaughter, but that still doesn't quite fit.

What about a faithful servant of the god of running away? Something like Rincewind?
Or, for a less comic character, a servant of some rangerish deity who believes that being tremendously good at surviving anywhere is the best way to show his devotion.

@V: He's not. I mean how he behaves.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-09-05, 08:34 PM
What about a faithful servant of the god of running away? Something like Rincewind?

Full Stop. Since when is Rincewind the faithful servant of anyone? :smallconfused:

Fax Celestis
2009-09-05, 08:45 PM
Uses Practiced Spellcaster to qualify for Enlightened Fist.

Oh MAN I totally forgot I could do that. I could go Monk 2/Hexblade 4 straight into Enlightened Fist, and take Practiced Spellcaster and Ascetic Mage.

sofawall
2009-09-05, 10:00 PM
Isn't there a survivalist class? The fastest PrC ever or something?

Fax Celestis
2009-09-05, 10:10 PM
Isn't there a survivalist class? The fastest PrC ever or something?

Only if you enter it with a Commoner. And it's kinda trash.

imperialspectre
2009-09-05, 10:18 PM
isn't that the one that requires low base saves to enter, doesn't progress BAB, rapidly increases saves but nothing else useful, and (by RAW) disqualifies you for itself when you take the first PrC level?

sofawall
2009-09-05, 11:11 PM
I seem to recall d12 HD and Evasion, uncanny dodge and something else, but yes, basically.

Hilarious class, came to mind when I read the title.

Cieyrin
2009-09-05, 11:51 PM
I seem to recall d12 HD and Evasion, uncanny dodge and something else, but yes, basically.

Hilarious class, came to mind when I read the title.

First thing I thought of, too, but it has d4 HD, actually. :smalltongue:

Indon
2009-09-06, 09:07 AM
Marshal 1 gives you an aura that lets you add your Cha bonus to any one save as a circumstance bonus (also works for your allies, which is a nifty perk).

Marshal 2 would allow you to gain +1 to your other two saves, +1 AC, DR 1/-, or +5 movement speed, but those are all meh.

Incarnate 1 would allow you to use two Incarnate soulmelds, or you could use a feat to gain any one Soulmeld (including the Totemist one I list). Defensive options include:

Planar Ward (this is the best one I saw): Duplicates mind-warding effects of Protection from <Alignment> spells, +1 saves vs. extraplanar creatures/Essentia.

Lucky Dice: Spend a swift action to grant yourself a +1 Luck bonus to saving throws until your next turn.

Mantle of Flame (not so defensive): Deals 1d6+1D6/Essentia fire damage when you're hit in melee.

Necrocarnum Mantle (If Evil): Immunity to Disease, +1 Profane bonus vs. mind-affecting effects/Essentia.

Pauldrons of Health: Immunity to Disease, +1 Enhancement bonus to Fort saves/Essentia

Spellward Shirt (Meh): SR 5+4/Essentia

Rage Claws (Totemist): Grants Diehard + increases your HP death threshold by 3/Essentia

Fishy
2009-09-06, 09:48 AM
LE Monk/Hexblade/Blackguard gets that delicious Divine Grace, and is a pretty scary debuffer as a bonus.

Fax Celestis
2009-09-09, 11:47 AM
Alright, final build concept:

Hexblade 4 (Dark Companion PHB-II variant)/Monk 2 (Decisive Strike PHB-II variant)/Enlightened Fist X

Feats: Power Attack (Human) Combat Casting (1st, prereq for EF) Practiced Spellcaster (Hexblade) (3rd) Ascetic Mage (5th) Unorthodox Flurry (Greatsword) (7th). Get Stunning Fist and Throw Anything as monk bonus feats (due to Pathfinderness).

I'd really like to get my hands on the East Wind Style feat from War of the Burning Sky, but it'd require me to get shocking grasp on the Hexblade list somehow. Advice?

Human Paragon 3
2009-09-09, 12:01 PM
I think you're SOL on that, Fax. Unless shocking grasp appears as a domain spell somewhere. Depending on the lienientness of your DM you might be able to homebrew an "electricity" domain.

Domain Power: You cast spells with electricity descriptor at +1CL

Shocking Grasp
Resist Energy
Lightning Bolt
Orb of Electricity
Call Lightning Storm
Energy Immunity
Chain Lightning
Lightning Ring
Storm of Vengeance

Then just take the complete arcane feat that adds domain spells to your spell list.


Also, it looks like you have the wrong prereqs for enlightened fist. They are Combat Casting, Stunning Fist and Improved Unarmed Strike.

Another technicality in your build, Aescetic Mage only allows you to add your CHA to AC if you are a sorcerer, which you're not. It's not too much of a stretch to apply it to hexblade, though.

Person_Man
2009-09-09, 12:11 PM
I'd say that Mettle is overrated. I've played a strait Hexblade build before, and it was used maybe once in eight games. But assuming you want it, try this:

Barbarian 1/Paladin of Freedom 4/Hellreaver X

Paladin of Freedom for immunity to Compulsion, Cha to Saves, and Turn Undead.

Hellreaver (Fiendish Codex II) for Mettle and the ability to heal 10/20/30 (devepending on your level) every round of combat as a Swift Action.

Barbarian for Pounce and Rage.

You can get Evasion from a ring. Or you can swap out Barbarian for two levels of Rogue or Monk or Divine Oracle (Evasion in mechanus gear!)

To gain your Cha bonus to AC, take Divine Shield. To apply it to your Touch AC, take Parrying Shield. Or if you want it to apply to Touch AC and special attacks (Trip, Bull Rush, etc), take Shield Ward (which unfortunately requires that you take Shield Specialization). Also be sure to have someone cast Magic Vestment on your shield. Presumably you'll want an Animated Shield, but you can go sword and board if you don't care about damage output.


You might also want to consider this build, which is a lot more powerful (higher AC, higher Saves, psionic powers, Sweeping Strike), but no Mettle or Evasion (unless you buy a ring).

Sir Wisdom the SAD
Elan Paladin 4/Sanctified Mind 1/War Mind 5/Sanctified Mind 2-6

A Paladin using the Serenity feat (Dragon Magazine, also on Crystalkeep) uses Wis instead of Cha for all of his class abilities. So now your Wis improves all of your Saves (and it effectively doubles up on your Will Save), and you can use it for Smite (bonus to hit) and Turn Undead uses (various Divine feats).

Sanctified Mind (Lords of Madness) is 6 level, full BAB PrC which provides 5/6 caster or manifester progression (player's choice, and you can explicitly change which you take each level) with the dead level being the first level of the class. Unlike most other classes, you can enter it at ECL 5. It also has some semi-useful class abilities, including Power Resistance based on your HD, which counts as Spell Resistance if your DM is using the transparency rules.

War Mind (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:War_Mind) is a nifty PrC. His best class feature is Sweeping Strike, which can be abused all kinds of ways with Attack of Opportunity combos. But he also gets Wis based Psychic Warrior power progression. It's relatively fast progression, too. At ECL 15, you essentially have the same powers as a 15th level Psychic Warrior.

The Intuitive Attack (Book of Exalted Deeds) feat allows you to use your Wis bonus for your To-Hit bonus with simple or natural weapons.

The Enhanced Elan Resilience (Complete Psionic) feat improves your Elan ability to spend your Power Points (based on Wis) to negate damage to 4 points per power point spent. You can also burn 1 point to get +4 to your Saves for 1 round. Though you need to be careful about this, as both are an Immediate Action, and thus can be done once per round. Alternatively or in addition, you can also get temporary hit points with the Vigor power, and/or heal with Hostile Empathic Transfer when you need to. And/or you can set up the standard Claws of the Beast + Claws of the Vampire + Expansion combo. Just be mindful that you have very limited power points, though you're helped out by bonus power points from a high Wis, and can buy a Mindfeeder (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Mindfeeder) weapon to get more.

Plus Mage Slayer feats have no effect on manifester levels, as the transparency rules have no effect on feats (otherwise a Psychic Warrior could take Practiced Caster and metamagic feats, which they can't). So casters have a lot to fear from you.

Buy a Monk's Belt, and you get Wis to AC (including Touch AC). Improve both AC's even higher by using the Shield and Inertial Armor powers. And since you're not wearing armor, you can buy a Ring of Evasion, just to be extra cautious.

To top it off, take a look at the Travel Devotion (Complete Champion) to get free movement every turn, so that you can make a full attack every round. (Not that you need it. You have Hustle. But it's nice to be thorough).

Put it all together, and you get a PC who has Wis based Turn Undead, Saves, To-Hit, AC, and (essentially) hit points, with full BAB, 15th level Psychic Warrior abilities, plenty of divine and psionic options, and numerous useful class abilities.

Fax Celestis
2009-09-09, 12:20 PM
Also, it looks like you have the wrong prereqs for enlightened fist. They are Combat Casting, Stunning Fist and Improved Unarmed Strike.Oh snap, I was looking at the Sacred Fist prereqs. Still, that's doable, and frees up a feat.


Another technicality in your build, Aescetic Mage only allows you to add your CHA to AC if you are a sorcerer, which you're not. It's not too much of a stretch to apply it to hexblade, though.Yeah, I've got the permission on that.


Barbarian 1/Paladin of Freedom 4/Hellreaver XI forgot about Hellreaver. That may be a better fit for what I want to do anyway.


Sir Wisdom the SAD Unfortunately, psi isn't allowed in this game (for flavor reasons, not zomgbrokenz ones).

Sinfire Titan
2009-09-09, 12:21 PM
Spellward Shirt (Meh): SR 5+4/Essentia


Spellward Shirt's SR is only good for straight Incarnate. You can easily get SR 41 with that, along with immunity to 4 spells of 6th level or lower (total immunity).

Incidentally, the Incarnate is capable of getting the highest Defenses this side of a full caster. The only thing you can't get easily is Mettle (Evasion through Impulse Boots). A Legacy Item could do it without losing meldshaping abilities.

You'd also be able to shift out of Defensive on a daily basis, or even faster if your feats are right. So you'd be an excellent tank.

AllisterH
2009-09-09, 12:24 PM
Toughest Melee class (a.k.a "Why won't that bastard stay down and die!!")

- Unquestionably a ToB Crusader.

Fax Celestis
2009-09-09, 12:29 PM
Toughest Melee class (a.k.a "Why won't that bastard stay down and die!!")

- Unquestionably a ToB Crusader.

Absolutely. I just don't feel Crusader fits the character I have in mind.

Person_Man
2009-09-09, 12:32 PM
Also, be sure to take the Tabard of Valor from Complete Champion pg 142. When reduced to 50% hit points or less, you gain Mettle. If you already have Mettle, you gain Improved Mettle (which works just like Improved Evasion, but for Will and Fort Saves).