Critisize my System's Tanks

[D-naras]

Hi everyone. I find myself spending a lot of time home, so I began making a D20 system of my own. You see I have, for years now, worked on my own fantasy world which I hope to use in a webcomic in the future. So i thought it would be cool if I could introduce the comic with it's own D20 system. The system is inspired by DnD 3.5 but with different classes, skills and skill point system.

For this post, I have 2 classes that will take the tank role. All the classes in this system will have 2 main skills that define their roles and abilities. Most melee classes like the following will base their abilities on either fencing or overpower.

Fencing will be DEX based and can be used for 3 base maneuvers:
Feint, Disarm and Bloodletting.
Feint will work as a swift action, where both combatants roll opposed fencing checks, and if the initiator wins, he treats the opponent flatfooted for his next attack, but his next attack suffers a -2 penalty because he strikes from an akward position. In case the initiator loses by 5 or more he provokes an attack of opportunity from his opponent.
Disarm will work as an attack action and instead of an attack roll the initiator rolls a fencing check opposed by either a fencing check or an attack roll from the opponent. Loss by 5 or more enables the defender to initiate his own disarm attempt.
Bloodletting will require a slashing or piercing weapon and it will be initiated by a fencing roll vs the defender's AC. If the attacker beats that his next attack suffers -5 damage but will cause the defender to bleed for 1d10 rounds for 1d6 damage, or until he recieves magical healing or a DC 15 heal check.

Overpower will be STR based and will encompass tripping, bullrushing and sundering.
Trip will work as an attack action and cause the combatants to roll opposed overpower checks. The winner trips the other.
Bullrushing will work by rolling an opposed overpower check. In case the initiator wis, he pushes back the defender 5ft or more if he is willing to move with him. This works like normal 3.5 bullrushing rules except there is no attack of opportunity for initiating the bullrush. In case the defender wins he can move the initiator 5ft to the left or to the right and if he wins by 5 or more he gets an attack of opportunity and the initiator is considered flatfooted.
Sundering will be an attack action. The attacker rolls an overpower check vs
the defenders AC or the defenders attack roll if he targets something handheld. If he wins the check he attacks normaly and deals damage to the item. If not, he misses.

That's enough about these skills for now. If you have any questions let me know. Now for the classes.

[D-naras]

BRUTE
HD D12
{table=head]Level|Base AttackBonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0|Powerful Stature (0,5 STR), Mighty Throw

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+0|DR 1/-, Scare Them

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1|Mighty Shove

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+1|DR 2/-

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+1|Knock-down

6th|
+6|
+5|
+2|
+2|DR 3/-

7th|
+7|
+5|
+2|
+2|Knock-back

8th|
+8|
+6|
+2|
+2|DR 4/-

9th|
+9|
+6|
+3|
+3|Triumph, Powerful Stature (STR)

10th|
+10|
+7|
+3|
+3|DR 5/-, Scare them Witless

11th|
+11|
+7|
+3|
+3|Sweeping Strike

12th|
+12|
+8|
+4|
+4|DR 6/-

13th|
+13|
+8|
+4|
+4|Greater Shove

14th|
+14|
+9|
+4|
+4|DR 7/-

15th|
+15|
+9|
+5|
+5|Slam Down

16th|
+16|
+10|
+5|
+5|DR 8/-

17th|
+17|
+10|
+5|
+5|Greater Triumph, Powerful Stature (1.5STR)

18th|
+18|
+11|
+6|
+6|DR 9/-

19th|
+19|
+11|
+6|
+6|Mindcrushing Blow

20th|
+20|
+12|
+6|
+6|DR 10/-, Scare them Dead[/table]

Defense Bonus: STR/CON +1/3 levels
Main Class Skills: Overpower, Intimidate
Class Abilities:

Powerfull Stature: Brute always apply maximum force to solve their problems. Starting at first level they add half their Strength modifier to melee damage rolls, ranged damage rolls with thrown weapons and to intimidate checks. At 9th level they add their Strength modifier and at 17th level they add 1.5 times their Strength modifier.

Mighty Throw: Brutes add their Strength modifiers to ranged attack rolls with thrown weapon instead of their dexterity modifier.

Damage Reduction: Starting on the 2nd level brutes gain damage reduction as shown on the table.

Scare them: At 2nd level, a brute can use his violent ways to attack an opponents courage. They can demoralize in combat as a swift action. They can only demoralize once per round.

Mighty Shove: Whenever a 2nd level or higher brute bullrushes an opponent, he rams the victim for damage. For each 5ft of movement the victim is dealt 1d6+STR blunt damage (if the brute is of medium size).

Knock-down: Starting on the 5th level, when the brute attacks he can use extreme force to drive the opponent to the ground. By accepting a -3 penalty on all attack rolls, he can initiate a trip attempt with each succesfull attack. The opponent doesn's get to trip the brute in case of failure. This ability can be used with thrown weapons within 3 range increments of the weapon.

Knock-back: At 7th level, the brute knows how to drive opponents back with his heavy blows. By accepting -3 penalty on his attack rolls he can initiate bull rush attempts with each succesfull attack. This triggers his Mighty Shove ability. The brute can follow the victim as normal for a bullrush attempt. The brute can combine his Knock-down and Knock-back abilities by accepting a -5 penalty in his attack rolls, but in this case he cant follow his victims more than 5 ft. Knock-back and the combined Knock-back and Knock-down can be used with a ranged thrown weapon within 3 range increments.

Triumph: Beggining on 9th level, whenever the brute defeats an opponent, he gains temporary hitpoints equal to his level that last an hour. These hitpoints doen't stack with temporary hitpoints from the same ablity.

Scare them Witless: At 10th level, foes intimidated by the brute remain so, for rounds equal to the brute's CHA+0.5 STR modifier.

Sweeping Strikes: At 11th level he can attack 2 adjacent squares that he threatens with 1 attack roll. He can't follow knock-back victims in this case.

Greater Shove: At 13th level, the damage inflicted by his Mighty Shove Ability increases to 2d6+2xSTR blunt damage (in case the brute is medium).

Slam-Down: At 15th level, whenever the brute trips someone succesfully he deals bonus damage depending on the victims size:
Small +2d6, Medium +3d6, Large +4d6, Huge +5d6, Gargantuan +6d6, Collosal +7d6.

Greater Triumph: At 17th level the brute gains double the temporary hitpoints from his triumph ability.

Mindcrushing Blow: At 19th level, the brute can attempt a Mindcrushing Blow with a full round action either with a melee weapon or a thrown weapon (within 3 range increments). If he succeeds on the attack the opponent must beat a Fortitude Save with DC 20 plus the brutes Strength modifier or be dazed for a round and take 1d6 Intelligence and Wisdom damage.

Scare them Dead: At 20th level, whenever the brute intimidates a panicked opponent, the opponent dies, filled with dread.

[D-naras]

SENTINEL
HD D12
{table=head]Level|Base AttackBonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Unpassable, Heavy Armor Adaptation

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3|Can't be Ignored +1d10

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|Shield Riposte

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4|Can't be Ignored +2d10

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|Shield Block

6th|
+6|
+5|
+2|
+5|Can't be Ignored +3d10

7th|
+7|
+5|
+2|
+5|Aura of Courage

8th|
+8|
+6|
+2|
+6|Can't be Ignored +4d10

9th|
+9|
+6|
+3|
+6|Vigilance

10th|
+10|
+7|
+3|
+7|Can't be Ignored +5d10

11th|
+11|
+7|
+3|
+7|Armored Endurance

12th|
+12|
+8|
+4|
+8|Can't be Ignored +6d10

13th|
+13|
+8|
+4|
+8|Aura of Confindence

14th|
+14|
+9|
+4|
+9|Can't be Ignored +7d10

15th|
+15|
+9|
+5|
+9|Valorous Charge

16th|
+16|
+10|
+5|
+10|Can't be Ignored +8d10

17th|
+17|
+10|
+5|
+10|Second Skin

18th|
+18|
+11|
+6|
+11|Can't be Ignored +9d10

19th|
+19|
+11|
+6|
+11|Aura of Triumph

20th|
+20|
+12|
+6|
+12|Can't be Ignored +10d10[/table]

Defense Bonus: STR/WIS +1/3 levels
Main Class Skills: Sense Motive, Fencing
Class Abilities:

Unpassable: Moving around a Sentinel is extremely difficult. An opponent who takes a 5 ft. step into the sentinel's threatened area provokes an attack of opportunity from the sentinel provided that the sentinel's ranks in Sense Motive are at least two above the opponent's Base Attack Bonus.

Heavy Armor Adaptation: Sentinels have no armor class penalty on their fencing rolls and they can use their Strength modifier for Fencing rolls instead of Dexterity.

Can't be Ignored: If an opponent is threatened by a sentinel of 2nd level or higher and he doesn't attack the sentinel, this gives the sentinel the chance to strike at him with renewed zeal. During the sentinels round, his attacks deal bonus damage to opponents that he threatened last round and didnt attack him.

Shield Riposte: Starting 3rd level a sentinel can counter missed blows with his shield. When an opponent misses on a melee attack roll versus the sentinel, the sentinel may roll an opposed fencing roll with the opponent's attack or fencing roll. If he wins he may make 1 attack with his shield versus the attacker as an immediate action.

Shield Block: When an opponent attacks an ally of a 5th level or higher sentinel the sentinel can react to protect his ally. He can as an immediate action roll a Sense Motive check. If his result is higher than the opponent's attack roll, the sentinel adds his shield bonus to his ally's AC against that attack. If the sentinel threatens the opponent he may use his Shield Riposte ability and deal bonus Can't be Ignored Damage.

Aura of Courage: Starting on the 7th level a sentinel becomes immune to fear effects from sources lower than his level+3. His allies within 10ft gain +3 morale bonus on saves versus fear effects.

Vigiliance: A 9th level sentinel can stay awake for days equl to his Constitution modifier without problem. In addition he gains a +4 competence bonus on Spot and Listen checks.

Armored Endurance: From 11th level onwards, a sentinel reduces armor check penalties by 2 and can sleep in his armor without problem.

Aura of Confindence: When a 13th level sentinel damages an opponent with a melee attack, he gains a stacking +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls versus the same opponent. The bonus lasts till he misses, or change targets. The sentinel's allies within 10ft gain +1 bonus on attack rolls versus the same opponent.

Valorous Charge: When a 15th level sentinel charges, he can move 3 times his speed and deal double damage with his attack.

Second Skin: When a sentinel reaches 17th level, he treats his heavy armor as his own skin. He reduces armor check penalties to 0.

Aura of Triumph: An accomplished sentinel of 19th level ignores every damage reduction his enemies might have. Allies within 10ft of the sentinel treat opponents damage reduction as 10 points lower than it is. Minimum 0.

[Fredthefighter]

Nitpicks:
1) At Level 18, the Brute has DR 9/-, yet at Level 20, it has DR 20/-, I assume that you meant DR 10/- at Level 20.
2) Powerful stature: In your system, does Str not affect melee damage rolls normally, or does Powerful Stature allow the Brute add the Str modifier on again?
3) Scare them Dead feels very very powerful. Considering that a Level 20 Brute with 27 Str (18 base, 3 stat increases, +6 Str enhancing item), 10 Cha and 23 ranks in Intimidate would have an Intimidate modifier of +35 (23 ranks, +12 (8*1.5) Str mod +0 Cha mod), and an NPC of the same level with a Wisdom of 13 would have a modified level modifier of +21. This means that the NPC has a 70% average chance of death at the start of the encounter (needs to roll a 15 or higher to beat the Brute's intimidate result). I understand that it's a capstone ability, and as such it's pretty powerful, but against NPCs and DMPCs, it's incredibly powerful. Of course, I don't know whether you are using d20 and the same skill system as 3.5ed.


Other than that, I like both classes.

I can't find any problems with you Sentinel class either. So good work.

[D-naras]

@Fred
1) Yup! That's a typo.... :smalltongue:
2) It adds it again. I plan on making it a high danger system, with lots of damage sources.
3) The capstones triggers when the victims are allready panicked, so they get at least 1 round (assuming the party will stack fear effects) to get out before he drops dead.

Thank you! :smallsmile:

[Fredthefighter]

@Fred
1) Yup! That's a typo.... :smalltongue:
2) It adds it again. I plan on making it a high danger system, with lots of damage sources.
3) The capstones triggers when the victims are allready panicked, so they get at least 1 round (assuming the party will stack fear effects) to get out before he drops dead.

Thank you! :smallsmile:

1) Okay, just checking.
2) Cool.
3) Ah, that makes it a little bit better than a "RAAARGH! YOU DIE!" ability.

And no problem. Glad I could help.

[The Neoclassic]

SENTINEL

Looks pretty good, though I think you could improve the wording a bit in parts.


Unpassable: 5ft steps in a sentinel's threatened area provoke attacks of opportunity if the sentinel has 2 ranks higher in sense motive than the opponents Base Attack Bonus.

An opponent who takes a 5 ft. step into the sentinel's threatened area provokes an attack of opportunity from the sentinel provided that the sentinel's ranks in Sense Motive are at least two above the opponent's Base Attack Bonus.

OK, wording that is really tricky, but I think that might be slightly better.


Can't be Ignored: If an opponent is threatened by a sentinel of 2nd level or higher and he doesn't attack the sentinel, this gives the sentinel the chance to strike at him with renewed zeal. During the sentinel's round, his attacks deal bonus damage to opponents that he threatened last round and didnt attack him.

See above: You were missing "this," an apostrophe, and an "h".


Shield Block: He can as an immediate action roll a sense motive check. If he beats the opponent attack roll he adds his shield bonus to the ally's AC for the attack.

I'd recommend instead saying, "He can as an immediate action roll a Sense Motive check. If his result is higher than the opponent's attack roll, the sentinel adds his shield bonus to his ally's AC against that attack."

The abilities are pretty cool, and I love how you are making a fighter-type that relies heavily on Sense Motive. :smallsmile:

[D-naras]

@Neoclassic

Adopted your fixes.

Thank you! I think that he needs a capstone ability though.... Still i dont want to move his last Aura to 20th level because that would leave 19 a dead level.. Any suggestions?