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Gralamin
2009-09-06, 11:28 PM
The stance progressions in Tome of Battle, really do not make any sense. To combat this problem, I'm trying to redefine them as follows:

Classes have New Stances available at (Maneuver Level):

Swordsage - 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th
Crusader - 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 8th
Warblade - 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th

Premise: Taking feats should not be necessary to make a stance reasonably available.
First thought: Give each another stance, try to meet up with the maneuver levels above.
Conclusion: Giving a Progression of 3/4+1/4 per level (3/4 at level 1) to Crusader and Warblade works nicely. They gain each of their stances relatively close to where they start appearing.
Conclusion 2: Swordsages don't really fit, give the Swordsages the ability to retrain to higher level maneuvers at a certain point. Follow a Progression of 1+1/2 per level (Starting at 3/2 at level 1), Cap at 7.

1|1|1|1|New Stances for All
2|1|1|1|-
3|2|1|1|-
4|2|1|1|-
5|3|2|2|New Stances for All
6|3|2|2|-
7|4|2|2|-
8|4|2|2|-
9|5|3|3|New Stances for All
10|5|3|3|-
11|6|3|3|New Stances for All but Warblade
12|6|3|3|-
13|7|4|4|New Stances for All but Crusader
14|7|4|4|-
15|7|4|4|New Stances for All
16|7*|4|4|-
17|7|5|5|-
18|7|5|5|-
19|7|5|5|-
20|7|5|5|-[/table]
* = Retrain a stance at this level.

This was my thoughts on the manner, but I am definitely open to other ideas. Thoughts, comments?

Edit: Tired caused stupid error, fixed.

Godskook
2009-09-07, 01:31 AM
What stance problem? Aside from the retraining issues, the number of stances an initiator knows is currently fine. Non-epic characters really don't need too many, since you can only have one at a time(especially since some are replicated in other things anyway). If you just allowed them to exchange stances at every even level, that'd fix the retraining issues just fine.

As far as 'reasonably available' goes, stances only happen at certain maneuver levels, which happen to line up with when the classes gain new stances. Notice how warblade doesn't get one at 6th ML, but the other 2 do? Its because Desert Wind and Devoted Spirit aren't on the Warblade's standard list, so he'd have to take a feat for those stances anyway. Same at 7th ML, where Crusader is left out. Only one new stance, and its in Tiger Claw.

If you could elaborate on what issue you're seeing, it'll help, cause I don't see one with the timing, which seems to be incredibly calculated. Also, in some cases, you're hurting things. Like for instance, a L2 Swordsage doesn't want his stance held back a level. ML 2 has no new stance, so he doesn't want to wait till L3 to have it.

Draz74
2009-09-07, 03:48 PM
There are some issues.

Many people think a Warblade should be able to choose a Level 3 stance as his second stance. Alas, his second stance comes one level too early for that. So he ... multiclasses instead?

Even worse, the Crusader's last stance comes before he's high-enough level to take a Level 8 stance. So Immortal Fortitude, for example, can never be taken by a single-class character without spending a feat.

Godskook
2009-09-07, 05:28 PM
There are some issues.

Many people think a Warblade should be able to choose a Level 3 stance as his second stance. Alas, his second stance comes one level too early for that. So he ... multiclasses instead?

Even worse, the Crusader's last stance comes before he's high-enough level to take a Level 8 stance. So Immortal Fortitude, for example, can never be taken by a single-class character without spending a feat.

Huh, I guess I misread the original post(I thought that the first list he gave was what was currently true, rather than his homebrew, oh well). I still don't see the # of stances or when you gain them to be an issue, just the (lack of) ability to swap them out like other maneuvers.