4e Sorcerer Help

[theonesin]

Through various means in our last game session, the party jumped from level 7 to level 11, so now that I'm in Paragon tier, I'm looking for thoughts on how my character is progressing. Here are his details:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Perrin, level 11
Changeling, Sorcerer, Daggermaster
Spell Source: Wild Magic
Background: Akanûl

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 14, Dex 21, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 21.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 16.


AC: 23 Fort: 18 Reflex: 21 Will: 24
HP: 76 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 19

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +10, Intimidate +15, Diplomacy +15, Bluff +17, Thievery +15

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +10, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +7, Heal +5, History +5, Insight +7, Nature +5, Perception +5, Religion +5, Stealth +10, Streetwise +10, Athletics +5

FEATS
Level 1: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 2: Focused Expertise (Dagger)
Level 4: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)
Level 6: Armor Proficiency (Leather)
Level 8: Sneak of Shadows
Level 10: White Lotus Riposte
Level 11: War Wizardry

POWERS
Sorcerer at-will 1: Acid Orb (retrained to Burning Spray at Level 7)
Sorcerer at-will 1: Chaos Bolt
Sorcerer encounter 1: Mists of Disarray
Sorcerer daily 1: Ice Javelins
Sorcerer utility 2: Focused Chaos
Sorcerer encounter 3: Ice Dragon's Teeth
Sorcerer daily 5: Thunder Leap
Sorcerer utility 6: Sudden Scales
Sorcerer encounter 7: Spark Form
Sorcerer daily 9: Contagious Curse
Sorcerer utility 10: Fate's Chaos

ITEMS
Tooth of Chaos Dagger +2, Staff of Ruin +1, Cloak of Distortion +1, Battle Harness Leather Armor +1, Siberys Shard of the Mage (heroic tier) (2), Adventurer's Kit, Grappling Hook
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I retrained Acid Orb because our Bard does NOT have any powers that grant the party extra ranged basic attacks, so the power has gone to waste.

I don't currently know how much money I have, so I'll save the item questions for later.

Any advice would be helpful, thanks.

[HealthKit]

I have to know... what did your party do to jump 4 levels in a single session? :smallconfused:

[theonesin]

Our Warden fought a giant goblin or something...

The Swordmage was sent to "hell" and experienced unimaginable horrors (it was an excuse because that player arrived late to the session)...

And the Bard and my Sorcerer danced on a magic purple square (which gave 50 exp per step).



And then we fought The Juggernaut (as in, the one from the 90's X-Men cartoon).

[Mando Knight]

And then we fought The Juggernaut (as in, the one from the 90's X-Men cartoon).

Did he tell you who he was immediately before proclaiming you to be a female dog? :smallconfused::smalltongue:

[Kurald Galain]

And the Bard and my Sorcerer danced on a magic purple square (which gave 50 exp per step).

Dance Dance Revolution!

[theonesin]

Did he tell you who he was immediately before proclaiming you to be a female dog? :smallconfused::smalltongue:

Yes. Yes he did.


The entire reason that the Warden fought was because each time me and the Bard stepped on the magic square, it summoned another Ogre (I just remembered they were Ogres, not goblins) into the next room, so by the time we finished, there were about 2,004 of them. So the Warden thought of the brilliant idea to challenge the enemy's strongest fighter against our stronger fighter instead of us trying to kill all of them (the Warden fought because my Sorcerer was busy leveling up, and the Bard was.......well, a Bard).


The main reason we leveled up so much is because I had been complaining about having never played a high-level DnD campaign, ever (the closest we had to a high-level campaign only lasted a few sessions so it wasn't as fulfilling).

[NeoVid]

I really don't see a damn thing I could say is a bad choice with your character.

Keep in mind the generic things that will help your character out, like Paragon Defenses. Arcane Reach can also be a good one, if you've got powers that fit.

Just about the only things you have for your character that I'd do differently are having a Bloodclaw dagger, and Armor of Repulsion to keep enemies off your back. Though for all I know, the setup you've got is working perfectly.

[theonesin]

Not sure if it was noticeable from what I posted, but I'm basically playing a long-range character. These last few sessions, I had to nuke the party a few times, so that's a big reason why I got War Wizardry.

Oh, and I now know how much money I have: 9,120 gp. Any advice on useful stuff I could buy?

[tcrudisi]

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +10, Intimidate +15, Diplomacy +15, Bluff +17, Thievery +15

FEATS
Level 1: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 2: Focused Expertise (Dagger)
Level 4: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)
Level 6: Armor Proficiency (Leather)
Level 8: Sneak of Shadows
Level 10: White Lotus Riposte
Level 11: War Wizardry

POWERS
Sorcerer at-will 1: Acid Orb (retrained to Burning Spray at Level 7)
Sorcerer at-will 1: Chaos Bolt
Sorcerer encounter 1: Mists of Disarray
Sorcerer daily 1: Ice Javelins
Sorcerer utility 2: Focused Chaos
Sorcerer encounter 3: Ice Dragon's Teeth
Sorcerer daily 5: Thunder Leap
Sorcerer utility 6: Sudden Scales
Sorcerer encounter 7: Spark Form
Sorcerer daily 9: Contagious Curse
Sorcerer utility 10: Fate's Chaos

ITEMS
Tooth of Chaos Dagger +2, Staff of Ruin +1, Cloak of Distortion +1, Battle Harness Leather Armor +1, Siberys Shard of the Mage (heroic tier) (2), Adventurer's Kit, Grappling Hook

I retrained Acid Orb because our Bard does NOT have any powers that grant the party extra ranged basic attacks, so the power has gone to waste.

You do have a good, solid character. Most of your feats are nothing short of excellent, as well as most of your powers. However, you are looking for input, so here's some things that I would consider changing:

Intimidate. This skill kills me. Have you ever done a skill challenge where Intimidate was NOT an auto-fail? If it's not an auto-fail, it's not an applicable skill, which means that it's only use is to try to get monsters to surrender... which is ridiculously hard, even when trained. Swap it out for, well, anything.

White Lotus Riposte is nice if you are going to be in melee range. Are you? Since you have it, I am going to assume "yes". So in that case, retrain War Wizardry into Sorcerer Channeling at level 12 and pick up Wild Spellfury at that level. Don't get me wrong -- War Wizardry is nothing short of great. It's necessary, even. But I'd take it at level 14.

I've suggested that you retrain so you can cast your spells in melee range, right? Well, that lowers the usefulness of Burning Spray. Instead, hit 'em with Blazing Starfall - a ranged burst 1 that has both the Radiant and Fire keywords and gives you a great at-will to use at a distance when the mobs are together for ya. And it's burst 1. I've always been able to work around my allies and not hit them.

"But tcrudisi, then I don't have an at-will to use in melee." Oh yes you do. You picked up Sorcerer Channeling, remember? And Wild Spellfury (at level 12). Now every target that's beside you takes your Dex mod in damage... yeah, that's sweet.

I find Bedevilling Burst (level 1 encounter) to be better than Mists of Disarray -- though Mists is good. But Bedevelling will be better now that you'll get +Dex mod to creatures adjacent to you.

But really, I'm nit-picking. As for a gear suggestion with that gold: absolutely nothing. I'd save up 17,000 and buy a Bloodiron Dagger +3. You are a daggermaster, so why not make the best use of all your crits? There are quite a few really good items out there that would help you out immediately, but I always look to the future and want the best. If you want some suggestions on immediate gear, I can suggest some. I'm just feeling lazy right about now.

That's what I'd do, anyway. I'm assuming a typical group (2x Defenders, Leader, Controller, and you) and I also don't know what race you are playing.

[theonesin]

You do have a good, solid character. Most of your feats are nothing short of excellent, as well as most of your powers. However, you are looking for input, so here's some things that I would consider changing:

Intimidate. This skill kills me. Have you ever done a skill challenge where Intimidate was NOT an auto-fail? If it's not an auto-fail, it's not an applicable skill, which means that it's only use is to try to get monsters to surrender... which is ridiculously hard, even when trained. Swap it out for, well, anything.

White Lotus Riposte is nice if you are going to be in melee range. Are you? Since you have it, I am going to assume "yes". So in that case, retrain War Wizardry into Sorcerer Channeling at level 12 and pick up Wild Spellfury at that level. Don't get me wrong -- War Wizardry is nothing short of great. It's necessary, even. But I'd take it at level 14.

I've suggested that you retrain so you can cast your spells in melee range, right? Well, that lowers the usefulness of Burning Spray. Instead, hit 'em with Blazing Starfall - a ranged burst 1 that has both the Radiant and Fire keywords and gives you a great at-will to use at a distance when the mobs are together for ya. And it's burst 1. I've always been able to work around my allies and not hit them.

"But tcrudisi, then I don't have an at-will to use in melee." Oh yes you do. You picked up Sorcerer Channeling, remember? And Wild Spellfury (at level 12). Now every target that's beside you takes your Dex mod in damage... yeah, that's sweet.

I find Bedevilling Burst (level 1 encounter) to be better than Mists of Disarray -- though Mists is good. But Bedevelling will be better now that you'll get +Dex mod to creatures adjacent to you.

But really, I'm nit-picking. As for a gear suggestion with that gold: absolutely nothing. I'd save up 17,000 and buy a Bloodiron Dagger +3. You are a daggermaster, so why not make the best use of all your crits? There are quite a few really good items out there that would help you out immediately, but I always look to the future and want the best. If you want some suggestions on immediate gear, I can suggest some. I'm just feeling lazy right about now.

That's what I'd do, anyway. I'm assuming a typical group (2x Defenders, Leader, Controller, and you) and I also don't know what race you are playing.

First off, I think you just missed it, but I mentioned that I'm playing a Changling. Not a big issue though. The party is made up of me, a Bard, a Swordmage, a Warden, and a "Cleric" (an NPC character who pretty much does nothing except heal/buff the party).

While I appreciate the suggestions, a lot of them were in the complete opposite direction that I want to take my character. I have no intention of getting up close and personal with enemies. I picked up White Lotus Riposte because the Paragon Feat, White Lotus Master Riposte looked very interesting, not because I wanted to be a melee fighter. Would those feats not be any good to a ranged character then?

Oh, and just in case anyone mentions it, my DM has already ruled that the Daggermaster's increased crit range applies to my spells, so again, I have no reason to get into melee range.

[tcrudisi]

First off, I think you just missed it, but I mentioned that I'm playing a Changling. Not a big issue though. The party is made up of me, a Bard, a Swordmage, a Warden, and a "Cleric" (an NPC character who pretty much does nothing except heal/buff the party).

While I appreciate the suggestions, a lot of them were in the complete opposite direction that I want to take my character. I have no intention of getting up close and personal with enemies. I picked up White Lotus Riposte because the Paragon Feat, White Lotus Master Riposte looked very interesting, not because I wanted to be a melee fighter. Would those feats not be any good to a ranged character then?

Oh, and just in case anyone mentions it, my DM has already ruled that the Daggermaster's increased crit range applies to my spells, so again, I have no reason to get into melee range.

In that case, ignore what I said except about Intimidate. White Lotus Riposte and White Lotus Master Riposte are both great feats, although they are so cheesy-strong that even I wouldn't touch them.

Other feats of note: Two Weapon Fighting. You might as well pick up the free +1 damage. Danger Sense. You want to attack first. This helps.

Your DM is correct about the dagger crit range applying to dagger implements, per RAW anyway.

[theonesin]

New update, as the DM has given us the following:

Free armor of our level (as a reminder, we're currently level 11)
Free weapon of our level +2
20,000GP (giving me 29,120GP total)

Also, the DM has said that if we want a weapon or armor of a higher level than the one we get for free, we can simply take the cost of the free equipment (such as 9,000GP for level 11 armor) and add on the difference with our own money.


As far as Intimidate goes, I don't really know what a skill challenge is, but only once this entire campaign has the DM had a player do one before, so they don't seem very important to him.

[Kurald Galain]

New update, as the DM has given us the following:
If you're looking for gear, then in my experience the best armor etc is the one that gives you resistance. Yes, even if you're a sorcerer - more resistances are good to have. E.g. wear a Deathcut armor (necro/poison) or simply Armor of resistance (necro) + viper belt (poison), then tack on a Cloak of Survival (fire/cold) and one of those Demonskin tattoos (any element on an action point).


As far as Intimidate goes, I don't really know what a skill challenge is, but only once this entire campaign has the DM had a player do one before, so they don't seem very important to him.
What he means is that several DMs, and in particular most of the writers for the RPGA, penalize intimidate by making it ineffective or having it backfire against most NPCs.

[tcrudisi]

If you're looking for gear, then in my experience the best armor etc is the one that gives you resistance. Yes, even if you're a sorcerer - more resistances are good to have. E.g. wear a Deathcut armor (necro/poison) or simply Armor of resistance (necro) + viper belt (poison), then tack on a Cloak of Survival (fire/cold) and one of those Demonskin tattoos (any element on an action point).

+1. I could not have said that any better myself. I would take +2 Deathcut Leather Armor (level 10) (two resists at 5, immediate reaction to punish a foe with Cha damage if they hit you) over +3 Leather Armor (level 11). Also, for that level 13 weapon, take a +3 Bloodiron Dagger (repeat crit damage the next round) and don't look back. You now have 29,000 to work with, yes? Here's a recommended shopping list:

Staff of Ruin +2 (3,400) (Your job is to do damage. No off-hand implement does it better)
Circlet of Mental Onslaught (9,000) (+1 Will and a daily power to increase your +hit and +damage by 1 for the rest of the encounter)
Cloak of Survival +2 (4,200) (Resist 5 fire and cold)
Boots of Eagerness (4,200) (Encounter power to take a free Move action)
Shadowfell Gloves (1,800) (Admittedly my weakest choice. But it does give you a daily power option to change one of your attacks to Necrotic to help get by resistances, and it adds +1d6 damage when you do it. Besides, it's only 1,800gp)
Salve of Power (5,000) (Use a healing surge to get back your level 5 daily? Yes, please.)

That's 27,400. Heck, it's so dirt-cheap, I'd pick up a Belt of Vigor for 520gp. It adds +1 to your healing surge value. Amazing, no? /sarcasm off. But seriously, I'd pick it up. +1 to your healing surge value can help, and I didn't suggest any other belts.

Ah, and what the heck, just to spend all of it: a Battle Standard of Healing. It costs 680gp and is very party-friendly. Plant it after combat and everyone who spends a healing surge gets +1 hp. So if the cleric spends a healing surge, then the Fighter, then you... that's +3 hp to everyone. It sometimes makes the difference between having to use an extra healing surge or not.

[theonesin]

Awesome suggestions, though I do have a few questions:

First off, do the resistances from equipment stack with my Background and Sorcerer resistances? And also, if I were to roll my "daily" resistance and get one of the elements that I already have resistance to, does the other resistance add to the amount I'm able to penetrate?

[Mando Knight]

No, resistances from different sources do not stack unless they specifically state that they do, nor do resistances from sources other than your Sorcerer class feature allow you to penetrate that elemental resistance unless they specifically state they do.

[Kurald Galain]

And also, if I were to roll my "daily" resistance and get one of the elements that I already have resistance to, does the other resistance add to the amount I'm able to penetrate?
No, but that's why you have utility powers that swap your sorcerer resistance around.

It's simply that permanent resist fire 5 is better than having resist fire 5 one day out of ten.

[tcrudisi]

No, but that's why you have utility powers that swap your sorcerer resistance around.

It's simply that permanent resist fire 5 is better than having resist fire 5 one day out of ten.

The powers to change your variable resistance aren't really that good. Though Kurald is correct -- it's always better to have several resistances than not. Besides, even if you roll a resistance you already have from another source, at least you still get to pierce that resistance, though as someone else said, they do not stack.

Also, if you are using the character builder, be careful with the Staff of Ruin in your off-hand. It doesn't add the staffs enhancement bonus a second time, though accepted RAW is that it does. Heck, because you were already using one, you were doing that anyway. Just take note that you'll have to manually scratch out and add +2 damage. I'd let the DM know, so he doesn't think you are cheating.

[Mando Knight]

Also, if you are using the character builder, be careful with the Staff of Ruin in your off-hand. It doesn't add the staffs enhancement bonus a second time, though accepted RAW is that it does.

It doesn't if he's using the dagger for the attack roll, nor do his Focused Expertise, Daggermaster ability, or Weapon Focus apply when he uses the staff for the attack roll. The only benefit gained from Dual Implement Spellcaster is the secondary implement's enhancement bonus. It doesn't benefit from the properties, powers, or critical bonus from the off-hand implement when he uses the main hand implement for the attack. The Character Builder correctly applies the bonus when using the Staff of Ruin as the attacking implement, and correctly leaves it off when it is the off-hand implement.

[tcrudisi]

From Wizards official FAQ, they posted the following:

20. Can a Warlock benefit from holding two rods?
Yes, a warlock can gain the properties from two rods but he still can only use one to make an attack.

(I'm not sure if I am allowed to link outside of the forums. If you want the link, though, just shoot me a private message and I'll send it to you.)

So when a Warlock is holding two rods, he can gain the benefit of both properties. I just don't see a Warlock being any different than a Sorcerer in that regards (after all, warlocks do not have an ability that says they get the property of both). Think of it like this: when you are using a power, your helm doesn't suddenly lose its property, does it? No. So why should your other implement?

Per RAW, you do get the benefits of the property of your secondary implement - and therefore the bonus damage added by the Staff of Ruin in the off-hand.

*edit to add a bit more detail*
Take a Masters Wand of Eyebite as an example. It has the following property: "When you hit a target with Eyebite using this wand, you gain combat advantage against the target on your first attack next turn." This is an example of an implement, that when used in the off-hand, does nothing for you if you cast Eyebite through your primary implement.

Compare this to Staff of Ruin which has a passive property, and therefore applies.

[theonesin]

On a new note, I've been talking to my DM about the possibility of changing Paragon Paths, and he seems to approve of the idea even though the rules don't seem to support it by RAW (and we just hit level 12, so retraining something wouldn't weird right now). That said, I'm curious if there are any PPs that I might benefit better from than Daggermaster (the first session I played as a Daggermaster, all but a few of my crits were natural 20s, which kind of defeats the purpose of Daggermaster). Specifically, I've been looking into Arcane Wellspring, Demonskin Adept, and Chameleon.

Any thought on this matter?