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Boci
2009-09-13, 03:54 PM
I'm not sure if this is the appropriate forum, given that itís not a very big piece of homebrewed material. But here goes. I am trying to fix the shadowcaster with minimal change. So, they gain this class feature:

Shadow connection: A shadowcaster gain their powers from a connection to the shadow plane. Normally, the link is too small to harm them, but they can voluntarily increase its strength. By spending two consecutive full round actions, they can regain all their daily uses of their mysteries and fundamentals. This process allows shadow to start taking over their body, reducing their constitution score by 2. An extended rest restores all their lost constitution to this class feature, but no magic less than a wish or miracle will do so.
A shadowcaster can widen their connection to the shadow plane as many times per day as they like, each time reducing their constitution by two.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to mention that this is balanced for a game using the base classes from Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic and Dungeonscape only.

Eagle
2009-09-13, 04:27 PM
The shadowcaster is actually perfectly reasonable to play by pretending that all of his mysteries are per encounter instead of per day. He STILL won't be anything close to other "full" spellcasters because of his absurdly limited list. No need for mucking around with Con damage or anything like that. Incidentally, if you would rather have a price on it, you're probably better off going with one of the kinds of ability damage that already exists rather than inventing a new kind that would be used just this once. It's all about working inside of the rules. Either Con damage, Con drain, permanent Con reduction, or my personal pick, Con burn from the XPH which is I think pretty much what you're going for. Basically, it only heals naturally as opposed to with magic.

Boci
2009-09-14, 04:52 AM
The shadowcaster is actually perfectly reasonable to play by pretending that all of his mysteries are per encounter instead of per day. He STILL won't be anything close to other "full" spellcasters because of his absurdly limited list. No need for mucking around with Con damage or anything like that.

This is for a game using the base classes from Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic and Dungeonscape only. Sorry, I didn't mention that sooner.


Incidentally, if you would rather have a price on it, you're probably better off going with one of the kinds of ability damage that already exists rather than inventing a new kind that would be used just this once. It's all about working inside of the rules. Either Con damage, Con drain, permanent Con reduction, or my personal pick, Con burn from the XPH which is I think pretty much what you're going for. Basically, it only heals naturally as opposed to with magic.

Well, ability burn means that if the shadowcaster recharges their mysteries twice, they still wont be at full con the next day. Ability drain is really harsh at lower levels. Permanent reduction is harsh at all levels and ability damage is too trivial at higher levels, so whilst I would like to use an existing form of damage, none of them fit.

peacenlove
2009-09-14, 06:55 AM
I'm not sure if this is the appropriate forum, given that it’s not a very big piece of homebrewed material. But here goes. I am trying to fix the shadowcaster with minimal change. So, they gain this class feature:

Shadow connection: A shadowcaster gain their powers from a connection to the shadow plane. Normally, the link is too small to harm them, but they can voluntarily increase its strength. By spending two consecutive full round actions, they can regain all their daily uses of their mysteries and fundamentals. This process allows shadow to start taking over their body, reducing their constitution score by 2. An extended rest restores all their lost constitution to this class feature, but no magic less than a wish or miracle will do so.
A shadowcaster can widen their connection to the shadow plane as many times per day as they like, each time reducing their constitution by two.

So now the Shadow caster becomes triple ability score depended? Why not base it on intelligence?
What about undead shadowcasters?
Also some mysteries are quite a pain to manage if you recharge them (mainly the dominate monster one)

In this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124274) you will find some ideas to tweak the shadowcaster. But whatever you do remember that the class needs BADLY options.

Omegonthesane
2009-09-14, 07:18 AM
Well, ability burn means that if the shadowcaster recharges their mysteries twice, they still wont be at full con the next day. Ability drain is really harsh at lower levels. Permanent reduction is harsh at all levels and ability damage is too trivial at higher levels, so whilst I would like to use an existing form of damage, none of them fit.
Why not just make it five minutes' uninterrupted meditation with no backlash? Or are you convinced that would make Shadowcasters too powerful?

And/or, maybe instead of the current path system, Shadowcasters should select the first mystery of a whole path at each level, and on top of that, all paths automatically advance every even-numbered level, or every odd-numbered level after 1st? As an intentionally quick and dirty fix it doesn't sound too bad to me. Mind you, never played these guys, but it almost certainly wouldn't make them wizard broken.

There was also Project Shadow on these forums, which tried to make the class viable by simply giving it more metashadow, fundamentals, and mysteries. Might want to look their work up.

Boci
2009-09-14, 07:27 AM
So now the Shadow caster becomes triple ability score depended?

Not really. All classes should have a decent con, and this merely means that as the day goes by they will need to be more careful.


Why not base it on intelligence?

To stop them loosing access to their higher level mysteries.


What about undead shadowcasters?

They can loose intelligence.


Also some mysteries are quite a pain to manage if you recharge them (mainly the dominate monster one)

I'll include a rule that you can only have 1 soul puppet at the same time.


In this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124274) you will find some ideas to tweak the shadowcaster. But whatever you do remember that the class needs BADLY options.

Thanks, I'll check it out.


Why not just make it five minutes' uninterrupted meditation with no backlash? Or are you convinced that would make Shadowcasters too powerful?

With their only competition being martial adepts, the factotum, binders and truenamers, yes, I think it might.


And/or, maybe instead of the current path system, Shadowcasters should select the first mystery of a whole path at each level, and on top of that, all paths automatically advance every even-numbered level, or every odd-numbered level after 1st? As an intentionally quick and dirty fix it doesn't sound too bad to me. Mind you, never played these guys, but it almost certainly wouldn't make them wizard broken.

I like the options of the shadow caster to choose between extra feats or higher level mysteries.


There was also Project Shadow on these forums, which tried to make the class viable by simply giving it more metashadow, fundamentals, and mysteries. Might want to look their work up.

Thanks, I might.

peacenlove
2009-09-14, 09:02 AM
There was also Project Shadow on these forums, which tried to make the class viable by simply giving it more metashadow, fundamentals, and mysteries. Might want to look their work up.

It still exists. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74519) Now it is named Descent of shadows and i have playtested some of its material for a long time now. Impressive work all and all and Realms of Chaos will return one day to finish the project.

Pie Guy
2009-09-14, 02:32 PM
Just one theory: Have you looked up Magic of Incarnum? It's an alternate system of "magic" that sounds like it might fit right into your campaign.

Boci
2009-09-15, 02:52 AM
Just one theory: Have you looked up Magic of Incarnum? It's an alternate system of "magic" that sounds like it might fit right into your campaign.

I've heared of it and leafed through it in a book store. Hopefully I will buy it eventually, but until then I'm stuck with fixing the shadowcaster (and maybe the truenamer)


It still exists. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74519) Now it is named Descent of shadows and i have playtested some of its material for a long time now. Impressive work all and all and Realms of Chaos will return one day to finish the project.

Thanks for that link. The sheer amount of work is mind blowing. The only problem is some of the links go to gleemax, and the remake of the site seems to have rendered them useless, but there is still plenty of material to use.