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View Full Version : Is Stanley attuned to an Arkentool?



Burley
2009-09-14, 10:25 AM
After reading the most recent summer update, I suddenly realized that Stanley may not actually be attuned to the ArkenHammer.
Here's my basis for hypothosis:

Stanley, unlike Wanda, has no idea what he's doing with his Arkentool. He learned to turn walnuts to pidgeons after, what, years? Wanda was making decrypted warriors moments later.

The only real reasons people thought he was attuned was possession and the command of dwagons. Seeing that Ansom was in possession of Wanda's Arkentool, possession =/= attunement. Also, Parson commanded a dwagon pretty handily, though he is much larger than any Erfworlder, and can't really be expected to ride a dwagon successfully.

Yuki Akuma
2009-09-14, 10:46 AM
...Buh?

Wanda still hasn't worked out all of the Arkenpliers' powers either. She just decided to see if she could use them in uncroaking, because, well, she's a Croakamancer and that's what she knows how to do.

Parson can command dwagons because those dwagons belong to his Overlord and he's a Warlord. Warlords can command any troops belonging to their Overlord.

The Arkenhammer's 'dwagon taming' ability just means 'you can pop dwagons at your capital'.

Burley
2009-09-14, 10:52 AM
I wish I had .jpgs to show how you've dashed my dreams on the shores of your reason.

multilis
2009-09-14, 09:20 PM
I believe one of flaws with arkentool in character page is "choice of friends". That statement wouldn't mean much if Stanley wasn't the "friend"/attuned.

spectralphoenix
2009-09-14, 10:21 PM
Stanley specifically says that Ansom wasn't attuned to the Arkenpliers. If Stanley didn't know whether he was attuned or not, how would he be able to tell if Ansom was? For that matter, how would he even know it was possible to attune to an Arkentool?

Additionally, in the prose updates on the erfworld site, he instantly recognizes that Wanda is attuned to the Pliers, even saying the she carried them like he did the Hammer.

PhoenixRivers
2009-09-15, 05:47 AM
Note: Ansom used the pliers. Just not to their full potential. He was able to slay uncroaked in a single hit with them. Wanda, being attuned, can also Decrypt with them.

The real question is... Is Stanley using the Hammer to its full potential? Could anyone with the hammer tame dragons? Or are the abilities Stanley uses representative of the Hammer's power for the Attuned?

Note: Ansom knew he wasn't attuned. Ansom stated Stanley was. Perhaps Attunement is something that is visible to the characters.

BRC
2009-09-15, 09:15 AM
Judging by This
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0155.html
Attunement certainly seems to be a visible effect.

Ledeas
2009-09-16, 10:09 AM
Stanley specifically says that Ansom wasn't attuned to the Arkenpliers. If Stanley didn't know whether he was attuned or not, how would he be able to tell if Ansom was? For that matter, how would he even know it was possible to attune to an Arkentool?

Additionally, in the prose updates on the erfworld site, he instantly recognizes that Wanda is attuned to the Pliers, even saying the she carried them like he did the Hammer.

You are not a Firefly, by your logic does that make me one?

Part 2: Could be bluffing

Dixieboy
2009-09-16, 12:35 PM
Part 2: Could be bluffing

In context it really couldn't

Rockphed
2009-09-16, 01:56 PM
The Arkenhammer's 'dwagon taming' ability just means 'you can pop dwagons at your capital'.

Do you have a source on this? I don't remember Rob or Jami mentioning it, but then I don't know everything...

Lysander
2009-09-16, 02:40 PM
Stanley has also been shown using the hammer to fly and blast bolts of lightning, so he has a pretty extensive use of it beyond just hitting people.

SteveMB
2009-09-16, 08:17 PM
Judging by This
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0155.html
Attunement certainly seems to be a visible effect.

Yeah -- it's not the sort of subtle phenomenon that leaves you wondering "did it happen or didn't it?".

Killer Angel
2009-09-17, 03:51 AM
Yeah -- it's not the sort of subtle phenomenon that leaves you wondering "did it happen or didn't it?".

Judging from the 33th update (http://www.erfworld.com/), it appears that probably an arkentool can form a link very deep with the unit under control.
Totally speculative, but I think that the uncroaked units are "loyal" to their king, or the warlord (not to the croackamancer), while the decrypted units are more directly tied to Wanda...


And the Holy War is starting!

Milo Baines
2009-09-20, 12:08 AM
howdy new friends, i'm new here but i've read a lot of erfworld...i totally think stanly is attuned...just 'cause he doesn't use the arkenhammer to it's full potential doesn't mean he's not attuned to it...he doesn't even use his own forces to their full potential...parson is sidelined, sizemore is treated like...ummm, dirt?...you see what i mean...

erfworld rocks!

Dark Matter
2009-09-25, 12:33 PM
I think I remember Stanley went up through the ranks and became warlord *because* he could attune the Hammer. That was basically the key to him advancing.

It sounds like attunement is a seriously big deal, and rare. For example it's possible that you have to be a croakmancer to attune the pliers.

Marbit-Chow
2009-09-25, 06:40 PM
Taming means that he can, if he encounters feral dwagons, capture and convert them to be totally loyal to him, in addition to being able to pop them through normal city production.

This is made clear in Summer Updates #35.

Dixieboy
2009-09-25, 07:43 PM
Judging from the 33th update (http://www.erfworld.com/), it appears that probably an arkentool can form a link very deep with the unit under control.
Totally speculative, but I think that the uncroaked units are "loyal" to their king, or the warlord (not to the croackamancer), while the decrypted units are more directly tied to Wanda...


And the Holy War is starting!As far as we know she can't actively betray Stanley due to the whole "Thinkamancy" thing.

Iago
2009-10-07, 03:05 PM
After reading the most recent summer update, I suddenly realized that Stanley may not actually be attuned to the ArkenHammer.
Here's my basis for hypothosis [snip]

Well, Ansom has said that Stanley is attuned to the hammer.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0022.html

tribble
2009-10-08, 04:56 PM
After reading the most recent summer update, I suddenly realized that Stanley may not actually be attuned to the ArkenHammer.
Here's my basis for hypothosis:

Stanley, unlike Wanda, has no idea what he's doing with his Arkentool. He learned to turn walnuts to pidgeons after, what, years? Wanda was making decrypted warriors moments later.

The only real reasons people thought he was attuned was possession and the command of dwagons. Seeing that Ansom was in possession of Wanda's Arkentool, possession =/= attunement. Also, Parson commanded a dwagon pretty handily, though he is much larger than any Erfworlder, and can't really be expected to ride a dwagon successfully.

he learned the dwagon taming ability like, right away.

Mercenary Pen
2009-10-22, 09:42 AM
As far as we know she can't actively betray Stanley due to the whole "Thinkamancy" thing.

Except that, having already betrayed the king of Faq to further her own ends, she presumably has a very low loyalty rating... and could in theory turn on Stanley at any time. She's achieved the end that required her to stay loyal to him (attuning an Arkentool), and now has equal or greater power, and might break away.

HandofShadows
2009-10-22, 01:37 PM
Except that, having already betrayed the king of Faq to further her own ends, she presumably has a very low loyalty rating... and could in theory turn on Stanley at any time. She's achieved the end that required her to stay loyal to him (attuning an Arkentool), and now has equal or greater power, and might break away.

While Wanda probably has a very low loyalty rating to Stanly (she is loyal to fate magic), she actually didn't betray Banhammer. She thought that Stanley was an idiot (he is, but a powerful idiot is the problem) and that Faq's forces would make mincemeat of him. She was VERY mistaken, but she never intended Banhammer or Faq to come to harm. And it would have netted Faq a Arkentool if it had worked.

Mercenary Pen
2009-10-22, 06:22 PM
While Wanda probably has a very low loyalty rating to Stanly (she is loyal to fate magic), she actually didn't betray Banhammer. She thought that Stanley was an idiot (he is, but a powerful idiot is the problem) and that Faq's forces would make mincemeat of him. She was VERY mistaken, but she never intended Banhammer or Faq to come to harm. And it would have netted Faq a Arkentool if it had worked.

I sit corrected on that front.

Oslecamo
2009-10-22, 06:53 PM
While Wanda probably has a very low loyalty rating to Stanly (she is loyal to fate magic), she actually didn't betray Banhammer. She thought that Stanley was an idiot (he is, but a powerful idiot is the problem) and that Faq's forces would make mincemeat of him. She was VERY mistaken, but she never intended Banhammer or Faq to come to harm. And it would have netted Faq a Arkentool if it had worked.

An Arkentool wich she had no assurance that would actualy be usefull to them.

An Arkentool in the hands of a warlod wich was quickly rising in position due to series of victories.

If "Atracting lighting-shooting veteran of war enemy with angry dwagons at his back to your secret capital wich relies mostly on illusions to stay safe and has actualy very few competent soldiers" doesn't count as betrayal, then it's at least complete incopetence.

Granted, Wanda isn't a warlord, so she probably didn't know much about military basics (she still doesn't, as we can see how she dealt with Unaroyal).

Like Maggie pointed out, Wanda is very talented at everything, but doesn't really bother to give her best at anything. She never prepares contigencies, trusting that her lewt skillz will allow het to get out of any mess she finds hersel into, always improvising. She almost died a lot of times thanks to it, one would expect she would've learned her lesson, but she's kinda of the arrogant type (Jillian breaking my mindrape spell? Please, not even in a million years! Hey, why is she butchering our troops....AAAYEEEEE).

Anyway, Wanda isn't loyal to fate magic. She's loyal to herself first of all, altough it seems like she has taken a liking to Stanley, puting her life on the line for him more than once.

Necrus Philius
2009-10-23, 04:47 PM
Did you forget that he can use his arkentool to rock out, the official music of the titans and is stronger than dance fighting?

I believe the Arkentool is the natural counter to the arkenpliers. Where the arkenpliers seem to create perfect replicas of those slain (and other things perhaps, but this is pretty potent for starters) The arkenhammer creates what seems to be the most powerful unit in the game so far (dwagons) and gives specific leadership bonus and abilities.

So while wanda can create a massive army, Tool can just lead a flight of dwagons over top the army and slaughter her or her castle quickly in a blitzkreig like strike with a relatively small but perhaps the most powerful unit.

Essentially it allows them to have the most elite strike force since with the lighting, rocking out and dwagon taming the only thing that can engage him is range and non dwagon fliers.

As the Tool said, sometimes you gotta tame a dwagon, other times you just gotta bust a nut.

Burley
2009-10-28, 11:10 AM
Did you forget that he can use his arkentool to rock out, the official music of the titans and is stronger than dance fighting?

I believe the Arkentool is the natural counter to the arkenpliers. Where the arkenpliers seem to create perfect replicas of those slain (and other things perhaps, but this is pretty potent for starters) The arkenhammer creates what seems to be the most powerful unit in the game so far (dwagons) and gives specific leadership bonus and abilities.

So while wanda can create a massive army, Tool can just lead a flight of dwagons over top the army and slaughter her or her castle quickly in a blitzkreig like strike with a relatively small but perhaps the most powerful unit.

Essentially it allows them to have the most elite strike force since with the lighting, rocking out and dwagon taming the only thing that can engage him is range and non dwagon fliers.

As the Tool said, sometimes you gotta tame a dwagon, other times you just gotta bust a nut.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Archons are actually the strongest unit. I don't have the exact page, but I seem to remember 3 archons demolishing a stack of dwagons.

Mercenary Pen
2009-10-28, 11:45 AM
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Archons are actually the strongest unit. I don't have the exact page, but I seem to remember 3 archons demolishing a stack of dwagons.

This may depend on the unit stats of the individual archons and dwagons, because we know that different units have different stats and that archons get a whole load of stuff as they advance (information courtesy of summer update #47- I would link, but their server is in dire need of healamancy right now)

Grothka
2009-10-28, 11:57 AM
That huge stack of dwagons was actually already severely hurt. They had been performing hit and run operations on the coalitions siege the entire turn in hopes that they would be able to do lots of damage, get really injured back but not actually lose any units so that when the next turn started they would all heal back to full. I'm guessing there wasn't a single dwagon in that stack that was over 10% health... hell probably not over 5% (seeing as Parson is good with the mathamancy and could probably cut it really close)

Necrus Philius
2009-10-28, 07:03 PM
The dwagons were severely hurt and were led only by an undead warlord. Even then they only had a slim chance to win even with the barbarian girl's leadership. Then ansom showed up.

Besides, archons can "level" whereas dwagons are awesome when they start, so we don't even know if they were the powerful archons or not.

Necrus Philius
2009-10-28, 07:08 PM
After reading the most recent summer update, I suddenly realized that Stanley may not actually be attuned to the ArkenHammer.
Here's my basis for hypothosis:

Stanley, unlike Wanda, has no idea what he's doing with his Arkentool. He learned to turn walnuts to pidgeons after, what, years? Wanda was making decrypted warriors moments later.

The only real reasons people thought he was attuned was possession and the command of dwagons. Seeing that Ansom was in possession of Wanda's Arkentool, possession =/= attunement. Also, Parson commanded a dwagon pretty handily, though he is much larger than any Erfworlder, and can't really be expected to ride a dwagon successfully.


I'll list the abilities that the tool has with the hammer.

First thing was the dwagons, pops at capital and can tame wild ones, possibly enemy ones too.

Can attack with lightning (shown in his attempt to escape and in the flashback when wanda tells of leading him back to her city).

Can turn walnuts into pidgeons.

Can rock out, the official music of the titans and stronger than dance fighting.

That's 4-5 abilities (depending on if you count the dwagon as 2 since spawning and taming are seperate). Wanda has only shown 1 so far. So yeah the Tool is attuned.

Mercenary Pen
2009-10-28, 07:17 PM
The dwagons were severely hurt and were led only by an undead warlord. Even then they only had a slim chance to win even with the barbarian girl's leadership. Then ansom showed up.

Besides, archons can "level" whereas dwagons are awesome when they start, so we don't even know if they were the powerful archons or not.

Dwagons can level too, which was why Parson divided them into A Dwagons and B dwagons during his bid to destroy Ansom's siege. He was delineating between dwagons of differing levels and capabilities...

obligatory link to source material (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0052.html)

Dragonmuncher
2009-10-28, 08:06 PM
Stanley was fairly smug that Ansom wasn't attuned, and seems to be able to do a variety of tricks with the Hammer. Unlike Ansom and his pliers, which he could only use as a weapon (that we saw, anyway).

I think this is one of those "the author thought it was so obvious from art and implications that it's never explicitly stated" kinda things.

snoopy13a
2009-10-31, 04:03 PM
Dwagons can level too, which was why Parson divided them into A Dwagons and B dwagons during his bid to destroy Ansom's siege. He was delineating between dwagons of differing levels and capabilities...

obligatory link to source material (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0052.html)

Possibly. Parson divided them by move. Higher move may be due to a higher level or due to different types.

Squark
2009-10-31, 05:28 PM
Possibly. Parson divided them by move. Higher move may be due to a higher level or due to different types.

Yeah, I would have assumed that was due to breed. Leveling, to me, seems more likely to bring about a boost to other stats in a heavy like dwagons, Although I suppose it could vary by breed, so Pink Dwagons are better skirmishers, Blue are Heavy hitters, and Red is all-around, which would change what happened when they leveled.

Mercenary Pen
2009-10-31, 06:30 PM
I would guess at a combination of breed and level or just level, considering that all of Parson's carefully orchestrated dwagon attacks featured dwagons of multiple colours.

LurkerInPlayground
2009-11-01, 06:07 PM
An Arkentool wich she had no assurance that would actualy be usefull to them.
Whether she had the assurance of it or not is irrelevant. She believed that the prophecy meant that she would get the Arkenhammer. She interpreted it incorrectly and is arrogant, as you rightfully point out.

That still doesn't speak against the fact that Wanda broke the "natural magic" of Loyalty. And we're not even entirely sure about what that means. But if personal judgement counts for anything, then Wanda didn't think she was betraying Faq.


Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Archons are actually the strongest unit. I don't have the exact page, but I seem to remember 3 archons demolishing a stack of dwagons.
Wounded dragons. Fighting against three warlords and an artifact.

Tavar
2009-11-01, 07:35 PM
Wounded dragons. Fighting against three warlords and an artifact.

Not at first. Thought, your point still holds: these are the dragons that were too wounded to continue taking one or two hits: they were really low on health.

LurkerInPlayground
2009-11-01, 09:45 PM
Not at first. Thought, your point still holds: these are the dragons that were too wounded to continue taking one or two hits: they were really low on health.
And against an artifact and three warlords.

Parson explicitly made a point about how bonuses are important in Erfworld:
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/125.jpg

Jillian's leadership bonus alone made her Parson's first target once she decided to attack the dragons:
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/071.jpg