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alchemyprime
2009-09-23, 11:00 AM
Here is where I will post thoughts I would like some opinions or help on.

PRESTIGE CLASSES
I hate Prestige Classes.

I just find it silly I should give up so much for so little. And since I made feats slightly more plentiful in my variant (2 at 1st, 1 at every even, plus 1 Background feat from a limited list, for a total of 15 at 20th), I think giving up a feat is good enough to help it even out.

So I want to translate Prestige Classes into Prestige Feats. You wanna be an Archmage? Take the Archmage feat tree. Got bored of that? The Ultimate Magus tree is still open too.

So that's what I want to accomplish, though I am a little uncertain how to do it.


WIZARDS

I don't think wizards are done justice. Since I redid every other class I could find, I think I need to do the Wizard justice.

So, I want to do this right. And I think they need an ability to make their own spells. But how to accomplish this?

If only there was some sort of point system... or should it just be a spell template method? Any thoughts on this?

The Neoclassic
2009-09-23, 11:26 AM
I don't think wizards are done justice. Since I redid every other class I could find, I think I need to do the Wizard justice.

Wait... are we talking in terms of good fluff and interesting ability, or sheer power? Because I'm pretty sure they aren't lacking at all on power.


So, I want to do this right. And I think they need an ability to make their own spells. But how to accomplish this?

You could look to epic spell seeds to give you some ideas. By standard rules, though, they can already research new spells. And if they use splatbooks (or even just core), there are plenty of spells to choose from.

I guess I don't really see what the big deal is. Maybe you could post links to a few of your other homebrew classes so I can get an idea of what you think the wizard needs to be fixed in comparison to?

alchemyprime
2009-09-23, 11:44 AM
I'm vastly increasing the power of every class and the utility of each class. I don't want to post all of them until I've got them ready for playtesting. Its mostly me taking some Pathfinder, some old Ultimate, and some of my own ideas.

As far as Wizards not having enough power... no, I know they do. If they are cheesed out for potential scenarios. But I've noticed cheese (except Pun-Pun) does not exist in a standard game. I'm just basing these off my own playing and DMing experience.

But it was a fluff thing that bugged me. Wizards make spells. Rary's Telepathic Bond, Mordenkainen's Sword, Jim's Magic Missile, Melf's Acid Arrow. I want to make a mechanic to allow my players to do something similar.

I think I found something fun I could use. I'll give it a shot to even it out. Once I get it down, I'll show it off to see how it can be evened out.

But right now, I'm working on the Paladin. Redoing it to be every alignment.

Godskook
2009-09-23, 11:48 AM
PRESTIGE CLASSES
I hate Prestige Classes.

I just find it silly I should give up so much for so little.

Huh? Are we reading the same prestige classes? Sure, some are sucky, but many completely justify their existence. Master Specialists(a wizard prestige class) are flavorful and worth every level compared to straight wizard, but they aren't nearly the best prestige class out there for a wizard to take. Archmage is potent, as is Malconvoker, and I challenge, nay dare, you to say that Incantrix, Red Wizard or Shadowcraft Mage are 'not worth it'.

Plus, many of the classes wouldn't work well as feats, such as hybrid classes like daggerspell mage, mystic theurge, and ultimate magus, regardless of their individual power-level. Take Arcane Heirophant for instance. There's no way to measure a 'feat' worth of 9th level wizard casting, or from the other side, 9th level druid casting and wildshape as a 13th level druid.

alchemyprime
2009-09-23, 11:53 AM
Huh? Are we reading the same prestige classes? Sure, some are sucky, but many completely justify their existence. Master Specialists(a wizard prestige class) are flavorful and worth every level compared to straight wizard, but they aren't nearly the best prestige class out there for a wizard to take. Archmage is potent, as is Malconvoker, and I challenge, nay dare, you to say that Incantrix, Red Wizard or Shadowcraft Mage are 'not worth it'.

Plus, many of the classes wouldn't work well as feats, such as hybrid classes like daggerspell mage, mystic theurge, and ultimate magus, regardless of their individual power-level. Take Arcane Heirophant for instance. There's no way to measure a 'feat' worth of 9th level wizard casting, or from the other side, 9th level druid casting and wildshape as a 13th level druid.

Well, I can say it won't work for all of them.

But I will say, I don't like the idea of prestige classes. I've never taken one for any character I've played. I've seen them used. Many times. Many cheesey builds have graced my eyes. One involved the ectrokineticist, one involved Reaping Mauler. I've run a game with a Red Wizard. I've seen them in action.

But I really don't want to have to adapt them to all the changes I made. So I'm just going to break them up as Prestige Feats.

Well, perhaps some of them. It was an idea, but now that you mention it, it seems like a large task. Perhaps I could just leave them be, but it may be interesting to see how they work in conjunction with some of my changes.

Godskook
2009-09-23, 12:09 PM
But I will say, I don't like the idea of prestige classes. I've never taken one for any character I've played. I've seen them used. Many times. Many cheesey builds have graced my eyes. One involved the ectrokineticist, one involved Reaping Mauler. I've run a game with a Red Wizard. I've seen them in action.

I'd recommend you trying a few before doing too much either way. Having never experienced them first hand, you're still missing part of their picture. A Malconvoker and Arcane Heirophant, while both being 'wizards', offer unique and flavorful approaches to the base concept, similar to choosing different course work when going to college. I always thought of a prestige class as being similar to a 'major', with base classes providing 'departments' or 'colleges'. A math major and a physics major are quite different, but are sometimes in the same 'department/college' and even share a lot of the same courses. Their capabilities, on the other hand, will be very different on graduation.


Well, perhaps some of them. It was an idea, but now that you mention it, it seems like a large task. Perhaps I could just leave them be, but it may be interesting to see how they work in conjunction with some of my changes.

Well, on the subject of improving the base wizard's fluff and fluff-crunch, how about requiring specialization and making MS a class feature of normal wizards. This will help distinguish between the different specialties quite well.