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The Ogre
2009-09-27, 01:33 PM
Iím in the process of making a character that is based on a rat/vermin lord theme. My problem is that I canít think of how to go about the concept. I was thinking of either a cloistered cleric or a druid as my starting class. The druid seems more appealing to me since a Dire Rat companion would mesh in well with the concept.

Right now the rest of my party consists of a shield bashing human Paladin of Honor, a human rogue that is the party lock picker and trap disabler, and a half-elf cleric of Olidammara. Our DM is pretty lenient on a lot of things and usually okays most ideas, granted it isnít along the lines of Divine Metamagic+Persistent Spell cheap. I have access to Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Vile Darkness, Complete Divine, Complete Warrior, Dungeon Masterís Guide 1, Fiendish Codex 1, Libris Mortis, Monster Manual 1, Oriental Adventures, Playerís Handbook 1, Races of Destiny, Races of Eberron, Races of the Wild, Savage Species, and Unearthed Arcana. When I rolled for stats last night, this was my result, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16.

Thoughts?

Also, are there any other classes and/or feats, aside from Verminfriend and Vermin Lord, that would work for my concept?

Eloel
2009-09-27, 01:34 PM
Try this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040705a) 10Char

The Ogre
2009-09-27, 02:25 PM
That's a pretty good start. What I'm really looking for is a character concept that specializes in spreading plagues and diseases by using rats and/or vermin as carriers for said plagues and diseases.

Logalmier
2009-09-27, 02:43 PM
Become an undead and take the swarm shifting template if that's possible.

Alleine
2009-09-27, 02:45 PM
Druid would be the best route most likely. Especially if you want to use the actual Vermin Lord PrC in BoVD. Use wild empathy and your rat companion(there's a feat somewhere that lets you have vermin companions) to sway other rats/vermin to your cause. Then cast contagion on them with a promise of curing them once they go spread it around a little. Or get your DM to OK a disease that wont affect/kill your little vermin buddies.

The Ogre
2009-09-27, 03:19 PM
Alright, the druid it is then.

Truth be told, I have never played a druid before. So would summoning be the best way to go with this idea? Because I'm not too sure on how to make this idea work properly. And what would be an ideal level to multiclass into a Vermin Lord?

Kulture
2009-09-27, 03:42 PM
As I remember BoVD had a variant rule that (using the dark speech feat) you could give swarms a hive mind.

So if you get 500 rats, you can give them a hive sentience so strong they have sorcerer levels and a charisma and intellect of 18 in addition to their normal stuff.

Bang
2009-09-27, 04:32 PM
If I were doing this, I'd modify the Druid class:

Replace all instances of "Animal" to "Vermin" including Wild Shape, Animal Companions and Animal-related spells. Summon Nature's Ally becomes Summon Vermin, using Summon Monster progression one level early. Add a few insectile creatures like Formians, Ice Devils, Ankhegs, Rust Monsters where appropriate on the list. Instead of Wild Shape (Elemental), gain Wild Shape (Swarm).

Cut the spell list to pieces, dropping healing, elemental attacks and spells that just don't fit (Wall of Stone, Stoneskin, Warp Wood, etc). Refluff other spells to fit the theme (Entangle and Whirlwind could involve swarming insects). Modify skill list by adding Hide, Move Silently, Climb and jump while removing the likes of Heal, Ride, Diplomacy. You might want to boost skills to 6+Int to compensate for nerfed casting (though the Druid isn't exactly the worst class to nerf).

Set
2009-09-27, 04:32 PM
That's a pretty good start. What I'm really looking for is a character concept that specializes in spreading plagues and diseases by using rats and/or vermin as carriers for said plagues and diseases.

You could design a custom Feat, 'Carrier' that allows you to taint any creature you summon via Summon Nature's Ally or Summon Swarm with Filth Fever. The feat might also allow you to taint a summoned creature with a different disease, but the disease has to be something that you have a sample of to expend in the casting (or are currently infected with, although using yourself as the 'disease component' doesn't remove the disease from your body!). If the animal already has Filth Fever (dire rats, for instance), the Save DC is instead increased by +2.

Alternately, you could just develop spells that accomplish what you want, such as a variation on Animal Messenger that sends a tiny animal to attack a specified target and infect them with disease, or a variation on Summon Swarm or whatever that sends out infected beasties to spread contagion. The levels wouldn't be particularly high, since, unlike infection through Contagion spell, infection through infected animal attack could take days to manifest, and usually has a pretty easy save DC (making it better for annoying local villagers than actually hurting anyone).

The Ogre
2009-09-27, 04:34 PM
Ooh, I like that idea. So for feat progression, would this be a decent idea?

Human Druid/Vermin Lord
1- Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning
3- Verminfriend
6- Natural Spell
9- Dark Speech
12- (not sure yet)
15- (not sure yet)
18- (not sure yet)

And for stats, I was thinking of doing this.
Str: 10
Dex: 11
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Cha: 15

Does this seem pretty good for a start?

shadowmage
2009-09-27, 04:39 PM
The FR Underdark book has a Vermin Keeper PrC that lets you assume vermin forms. At the highest levels you can even assume swarmform. Druid also has plenty poison, and if I remember correctly some disease causing spells. Contagion comes to mind.

The Ogre
2009-09-27, 05:54 PM
Your suggestions are pretty good Bang. My animal companion is most likely going to be either a dire rat or a vermin companion from the vermin druid variant from ozgun92's link. The only things I'll probably change around are the class skills, the Summon Nature's Ally to Summon Vermin(or make it to where the summoned creature has the Insectile template from SS), and Wild Shape into a Vermin of some kind. I really appreciate the suggestions. Thanks.

Is there any racial requirement to that Vermin Keeper PrC? Because I'm going to have my character be human.

Are there any other suggestible feats/PrCs that I may be missing that can be of some use to me?