Optimized level 1 pvp characters.

[Tyndmyr]

Now, pondering the Arena Tournament in our very own forum, I can't help but think about what sort of classes make ideal level 1 duelists, and how much long term power ends up traded off to make that work.

In particular, there seems to be very few casters, and those that exist mostly seem to be focused on a particular trick(often involving precocious apprentice). Warforged would seem to have an advantage, given that the most dangerous spells(sleep, color spray, etc) at low level would be ineffective against them. Also, good hp.

In fact, a high hp build character can simply have more hit points than a first level caster can reasonably hope to take out with his entire load of spells.

Now, not every character is optimized extensively, but some are, and it's kind of an interesting study...will casters eventually become more prevailant at higher levels, or will the difficulty of surviving the initial levels keep them rare?

[Tanaric]

Fell Drained Magic Missiles/Kelgore's Firebolt/Sonic Snap coupled with Midnight Metamagic. There's your instant death level 1 caster. :smallwink:

Alternately, Loredrake Dragonwrought Kobold with Arcanist's Gloves and Sudden Maximize, using MM again.

Edit: To clarify, I don't think casters should be as rare in the Arena as they are. It just takes a little poking around in some books to make them work.

[Glimbur]

You could do worse than a first level Azurin Incarnate(Magic of Incarnum). Spend your feats on Improved Soulmeld Capacity and Shape Soulmeld: Rageclaws. Maximize Con and Dex. Throw 3d6 as a ranged touch at first level via Dissolving Spittle with Expanded Capacity. Spend your other soulmeld on something defensive, maybe Fellmist Robe. Don't die until you hit -10, or -13 if you drop your damage output by 1d6.

[Tyndmyr]

Yeah, I've seen a few fell drained magic missile users. Quite effective at low levels, I agree. This makes shield pretty much a mandatory known spell.

Now, LOS is a problem. Even with MM, you still have to find them before nuking them, and with sufficiently powerful melee types, that can be pretty much a 50/50 shot. Against archers, unless you are fortunate enough to be on an arena where LOS is more open than LOE is, you run the risk of either dying to the first arrow, or failing a concentration check to a held arrow shot.

Of course, Fell Drain MMs, awesome as they are, taper off in potency quickly with levels. Still quite useful, but no longer an instagib. Nearly any of the sudden metamagic feats are probably pretty hot, though. IMO, the builds that center around an earlier level 2 spell suffer from not really getting a significant power boost until the level 3 spells come round.

[Tanaric]

The Arena allows the use of two Flaws, so being an Azurin really isn't necessary. Om'nom'nom (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=30164) spits 3d6 acid, has more AC, and a better chance of hitting with the acid than an Azurin.

Edit: You still suffer all the penalties of a negative level, even if the FDMM doesn't kill you outright. That's a loss of another 5 hp, among other things. Assuming you're firing 3 missiles at level 2 (Arcanist's Gloves, Spellgifted), it stands a good chance of one-hitting people.

[Tyndmyr]

That character wins, purely for having "biter of ankles" in the name.

On a slightly related note, what is ideal dueling gear? There's not a ton of money to go around, and consumables are risky.

[quick_comment]

Focused conjurer. Take abrupt jaunt ACF. Take precocious apprentice, now you have level 2 spells.

[HCL]

Problem with casters is that you are light on defense and damage output at level 1 compared to a barbarian (which seems to be the most common character). I made 3 LLD Characters this weekend with 3 different attempts to solve it, all three of them involve using devotion feats because they are so damn good.

http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=7229
Murray, high AC, high stealth skills gnome warlock. Of my 3 characters, he has the highest HP at 9.

http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=7216
Silver tries to target their fort or will saves if they are low via Blindness and Cause Fear. Failing that, summon a bat swarm and run away as fast as possible.

http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=7210
Lance has lots of buffs and healing, flies around, can target low wis or dex characters with grease and cause fear, and if necessary can drop rocks on people.

[HCL]

Focused conjurer. Take abrupt jaunt ACF. Take precocious apprentice, now you have level 2 spells.

A level 2 spell that can only be accessed via a DC8 caster level check, which is most likely going to be web given that the only other good choices scale with caster level and hit dice. I dont think you get the bonus conjurer slots for a spell level you only have access to via a feat.

[Tyndmyr]

I believe there's a way to get a second level 2 spell, but again, another feat gets eaten in the process.

Sure, you can retrain out of those, but those feats will become fairly useless in relatively short order. At least, I don't recall retraining being on the banned list.

I like the concept of lance. Wings alone are going to make LOS vastly easier to get, and will hamper quite a few players.

[Tanaric]

Mind you, in the Arena at least, so long as you're still within attacking range after an Abrupt Jaunt, you can still be shot. It's not as awesome as it could be with a different reading of the ACF.

Edit: I had an idea for a Warlock in the Arena, but I've already reached my 4 character limit. Animal Devotion and Baleful Utterance are what it revolves around. Fly around Shattering everything your opponent has on, then pick him off with Eldritch Blasts. Not a caster per se, but it's close.

[Tyndmyr]

Ouch. See, I briefly considered such a build, but I really didn't want to get into item destruction. Seemed like it might be taken hard. Definitely has effective possibilities, though.

I've only got one character atm, and while she isn't bad, per se, she could definitely be improved on. Right now, the basic combo is color spray + scythe, with magic missiles as a backup. 'sok, but not overwhelming. She'll improve quickly as I get levels and spell slots, though.

Might do a stock berzerker for fun...perhaps a factotum. Not an ideal low level duelist by any means, but I like the class.

[Tanaric]

If you can fit it on the build, make sure to toss in Death Devotion. Even if they survive your hits, they have to make a fort save or gain a negative level. Law Devotion works too as a multipurpose tool, though +AC or +to hit aren't quite as impressive.

[Jergmo]

I made a Deep Dwarf Necromancer, in hopes that it would make the min-maxers cry. No other spellcaster can hope to make him fail a save, and all of the martial types have abyssmal will saves, so they would be taken down by Color Spray followed by a coup de grace from his weasel and crossbow.

[PhoenixRivers]

Provided Retraining is allowed, most builds don't significantly lose long term power. A few (melee mage, Barbarian/cleric) may, but on the whole, long term power isn't sacrificed in a system that allows retraining.

The best options in PvP are abilities that don't roll to hit, and don't allow a save. That's why Fell-drain Magic Missile, and Fell Drain Sonic Snap are so deadly at level 1.

At level 2? They're painful, but unless you can drop 2 of them quickly, it won't guarantee victory.

[hustlertwo]

The best of my characters from a technical standpoint would likely be my wizard, Fiorella. Her Spellgifted/Evocation Domain combo gave her double strength Magic Missiles, somewhat boosted Kelgore's, and with Arcanist's Gloves from the first couple wins that's all enhanced even more. Deflect Arrows provides plenty of protection form ranged assault, and Improved Unarmed Strike allows for an ever-ready way to get an AoO if someone tries to pull something near me, which they shouldn't with my 40 move. Finally, if they manage to get nearby, Stench of the Dead gives me at least a decent shot at sickening them, softening their attacks for my protection and also increasing my odds of making Kelgore damage stick, or to just end it all with a Color Spray.

[Tyndmyr]

Mmm, that's a good point. Between Deflect arrows and later, Protection from arrows, I imagine archers have a rather hard time of it. The relative lack of free LOS/LOE probably doesn't help them, either. If you're lucky, you get one, perhaps two shots off before you're getting stabbed, and a ranged battle against a wizard probably doesn't favor you.

40 movement is quite nice, too. Im noticing mobility is a pretty big factor(I traded half mine for an additional hp/level. Still not sure if it's worth it)

[Tyndmyr]

Made a new gladiator here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=157418).

He was tossed together in about 20 minutes, so probably not terribly optimized, but what dya all think? Should put out enough damage on the charge to drop any level 1 character, and even his ranged is a significant threat. The usual warforged list of immunities, coupled with DR 4/adamantine and solid hp/AC should keep him pretty safe from hp attacks. Fort save is quite solid, no saves are negative, and the speed reduction from the heavy armor is negated via traits.

Edit: Not sure that the other trait is all that hot...trying to keep my strength skills reasonable, but +1 to a single skill isn't that significant. I don't see being illiterate as a real downside, but if there's a more usable trait, I'm open.

[Tanaric]

In the Arena, the Inattentive flaw can lose you a match. You want to be able to make your spot checks as often as possible. Dropping Inattentive for something else (Unreactive, perhaps, since your initiative is already poor?) and taking the Farsighted trait over Illiterate would probably be better in the long run.

Edit: In regards to the wizard mentioned above, I have only one thing to say: Kil'ak. (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=30441)

Okay, so maybe I have more than one thing to say. 5d6 KFB's without boosters, a dinosaur companion that runs around blinding things, light armor without ASF, +14 hide, an effective HP of 17, and, most importantly of all, snowy fireballs. :smalltongue:

Did I mention he runs around at 70 ft/round, while his dinosaur "only" moves at 60ft?

[skyclad]

I thought the trick was to be a wizard, sell your starting spellbook and buy dogs?

[Mushroom Ninja]

A human wizard with Precocious Apprentice, Bloodline of Fire, Fiery Burst, Elemental Spellcasting (Fire) casts fire spells at a +4 CL. That's a 5d6 Kelgore's.

[daggaz]

A human wizard with Precocious Apprentice, Bloodline of Fire, Fiery Burst, Elemental Spellcasting (Fire) casts fire spells at a +4 CL. That's a 5d6 Kelgore's.

Considering it takes two kills to buy arcanist gloves, and four kills to level, thats a waste of feats, which you can only retrain one per level. Toss max one feat on upping CL and get the gloves and you are doing 4d6 which is more than enough. Level, and you are maxed on the damage there. I dont see much point in pimping magic missile beyond that either, as shield should be a no-brainer with any character with 25 gp and the right source book.

Id rather start out with a lower kelgore, and rely on my scorching ray to do most of the work, then work my way up. By the way, precocious apprentice doesnt affect CL anyhow.. just nice to have that second level spell, even if it doesnt qualify you for certain feats..

[Bayar]

What tactics i seen to work for me:

1. (dragonborn + water optional) orc barbarian/fighter, just take it easy, close in on your enemy if you have LOS to him, trying to not have LOE (in the glass arenas), charge and kill them when you can, try to anticipate what readied action they might have.

2. Artificier with a bigass UMD check, invisibility+seeking ray at level 1. If they cant see you, they cant kill you.

[Tyndmyr]

I thought the trick was to be a wizard, sell your starting spellbook and buy dogs?

Would dogs help? I thought there was a kibosh on non-familiar animal minions(save for pure mount types).

Unless you're using a "mount" as an attacker somehow. =)

[daggaz]

yeah, attack animals are out for exactly that reason.. nobody wants to go the arena to watch dog fights. You can have a combat trained mount, however. Down side to that is, if your mount dies, well thats a bunch of cash that is gone as well. I havent seen too many mounted builds so far.. probably has as much to do with the requisite feats, as well.

[Bayar]

Would dogs help? I thought there was a kibosh on non-familiar animal minions(save for pure mount types).

Unless you're using a "mount" as an attacker somehow. =)

Apart from your familiar/animal companion, you can have a single mount. I once saw a druid with two riding dogs at level 1. One was his animal companion, the other was his mount. Of course, they were used as a mobile strike force, not mounts.

[Akal Saris]

I thought the trick was to be a wizard, sell your starting spellbook and buy dogs?

What is this, 2E?!

Here's a pretty generic one that will probably be effective:

Warforged Barbarian 1
Feats: Improved Initiative, Mad Foam Rager, Instantaneous Rage
Flaws: -3 to Fort saves (there are very few low-level fort save spells), -1 to AC
ACFs: trade fast movement for pounce, trade rage for the UA variant rage that gives 2 attacks and +4 Str/Dex, trade uncanny dodge at 2nd for Improved Trip (wolf totem UA).

The result: At the start of the combat, you have a decent chance to win initiative - even if you don't, you can instantly enter a rage and use Mad Foam rager to delay the effects of a spell that hits you. Then on your round, you can charge and pounce, gettin 2 attacks with your guisarme, which at 2nd level can both have a very good chance to trip your opponent thanks to improved trip.

[Bayar]

What is this, 2E?!

Here's a pretty generic one that will probably be effective:

Warforged Barbarian 1
Feats: Improved Initiative, Mad Foam Rager, Instantaneous Rage
Flaws: -3 to Fort saves (there are very few low-level fort save spells), -1 to AC
ACFs: trade fast movement for pounce, trade rage for the UA variant rage that gives 2 attacks and +4 Str/Dex, trade uncanny dodge at 2nd for Improved Trip (wolf totem UA).

The result: At the start of the combat, you have a decent chance to win initiative - even if you don't, you can instantly enter a rage and use Mad Foam rager to delay the effects of a spell that hits you. Then on your round, you can charge and pounce, gettin 2 attacks with your guisarme, which at 2nd level can both have a very good chance to trip your opponent thanks to improved trip.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l57/Chaos92/HA_HA_HA_OH_WOW.jpg

Actually, Fort save is vital in the arena. There were alot of builds specifically to beat you with color spray / sleep potions / other stuff that relies on fort saves. And they were effective even against opponents with high fort saves. Because a ~ DC 17 fort save at level 1 can net you wins easy.

[Tanaric]

Flaws: -3 to Fort saves (there are very few low-level fort save spells)

While that may be true, there are some very deadly fort save effects going on all the same. Death Devotion and Profane Agony, to name a few. I'd suggest -3 to reflex if you must take a hit to a save.

@Above: Color Spray is a will save. :smalltongue:

[Eldariel]

Actually, Fort save is vital in the arena. There were alot of builds specifically to beat you with color spray / sleep potions / other stuff that relies on fort saves. And they were effective even against opponents with high fort saves. Because a ~ DC 17 fort save at level 1 can net you wins easy.

Actually, they're all Will-saves.

[Bayar]

Actually, they're all Will-saves.

Ok, color spray is will, the sleep potion that is actually dust that makes you UNCONCIOUS is fort. And that was not the point.

[Tanaric]

See also: Drow Poison. If you fall unconscious in the Arena (well, anywhere, really) you can kiss your head goodbye.

[PhoenixRivers]

I've seen casters out HP melee, no problem. Psions especially, with effective HP and temp HP.

I've seen them out Str melee too. Highest I can get a level 1 to is 32 Str (Wizard).

Takes a bit of optimization finesse, though.

18 Str Orc wiz with 12 int. Fist of Stone, Animal Devotion, Enlarge Person.
If level 2 is barbarian, you can get 36 (Rage).

Better yet, if level 1 is barbarian, with 12 int, and level 2 is wizard, you have more HP.

[Akal Saris]

Drow poison has a very low DC though - 13 or so, IIRC. And as others pointed out to Mr. "I'm cute with pictures from Tin Tin" Bayer, color spray and sleep are both will saves.

Besides that, he'll be a barbarian - who in their right mind would use a Fort save effect on a raging barbarian?

Even if he does fail a Fort save, that's what Mad Foam Rager is for - to delay that failure for a round, and hopefully KO the opponent first. Optimized 1st level fights are pretty much rocket tag half the time anyhow, especially with no prep rounds.

Anyhow, another flaw can be substituted instead - it's not like having -3 to fort saves is a critical part of the build =P

[Bayar]

Drow poison has a very low DC though - 13 or so, IIRC. And as others pointed out to Mr. "I'm cute with pictures from Tin Tin" Bayer, color spray and sleep are both will saves.

Besides that, he'll be a barbarian - who in their right mind would use a Fort save effect on a raging barbarian?

Even if he does fail a Fort save, that's what Mad Foam Rager is for - to delay that failure for a round, and hopefully KO the opponent first. Optimized 1st level fights are pretty much rocket tag half the time anyhow, especially with no prep rounds.

Anyhow, another flaw can be substituted instead - it's not like having -3 to fort saves is a critical part of the build =P

Sleep potion, it is in one of the faerun books. Fort DC 17 save or go unconcious. Cant remember the exact name of the item in question.

And my name is BayAr. It is NOT a reference to a drug company, it is my RL name.

Edit @V: That was the one. A guy beat 3 meleers that teamed up against him with 3 such poison flasks in a 4 player free for all at level 2.

[PhoenixRivers]

There is a poison in the Waterdeep book, 50gp, DC 15 Fort or fall asleep. It's inhaled, and occupies a 10ft square, then a 20ft square when used. Not the best, but good at level 1.

[Akal Saris]

Sleep potion, it is in one of the faerun books. Fort DC 17 save or go unconcious. Cant remember the exact name of the item in question.

And my name is BayAr. It is NOT a reference to a drug company, it is my RL name.

Edit @V: That was the one. A guy beat 3 meleers that teamed up against him with 3 such poison flasks in a 4 player free for all at level 2.

The character is a warforged, and therefore immune to poisons. And there's no way that a potion is going down his throat.

Warforged traits:
—Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease,
nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, effects that cause
the sickened condition, and energy drain.

See those? Almost all of those are Fort save conditions.

Sorry for getting your name wrong, Bayar - if it's any consolation, I've had people reply to me as Sars.

[Eldariel]

Ok, color spray is will, the sleep potion that is actually dust that makes you UNCONCIOUS is fort. And that was not the point.

Which source is this mysterious Sleep Potion from? I do not recall hearing of it. I was assuming some messed-up Potion of Sleep.

[PhoenixRivers]

Bayar's referring to the sleep-smoke from the Waterdeep book, I think.

That's all that comes up on a thread search for sleep for arena matches. Well, that and the sleep spell, but that's different.

[hustlertwo]

What is this, 2E?!

Here's a pretty generic one that will probably be effective:

Warforged Barbarian 1
Feats: Improved Initiative, Mad Foam Rager, Instantaneous Rage
Flaws: -3 to Fort saves (there are very few low-level fort save spells), -1 to AC
ACFs: trade fast movement for pounce, trade rage for the UA variant rage that gives 2 attacks and +4 Str/Dex, trade uncanny dodge at 2nd for Improved Trip (wolf totem UA).

The result: At the start of the combat, you have a decent chance to win initiative - even if you don't, you can instantly enter a rage and use Mad Foam rager to delay the effects of a spell that hits you. Then on your round, you can charge and pounce, gettin 2 attacks with your guisarme, which at 2nd level can both have a very good chance to trip your opponent thanks to improved trip.

Won't your move be pretty terrible? Take it from me, movement is a lot in PvP. I danced away from a melee person with the wizard I mentioned before over and over, using my superior speed to keep away from his potential one-hit kill attacks long enough to set him up the bomb (or rather the further bomb). Consequently, one of my only losses came from an inverse situation, where a barbarian with 50 speed and 10 foot reach was able to close on me while rarely leaving himself open to my Duskblade's bow or magic, because with my speed only being 30 he could keep up with me and still have a standard left most turns to ready actions.

Daggaz, I know you mentioned Scorching Ray as the Precocious Apprentice spell, but Seeking Ray is a better choice. Same damage (4d6 on a ranged touch), better damage type (several Arena combatants with fire resistance, not so many with electrical), better range (100 feet+), ignores concealment, I think, and if it hits, you get a +3 bonus to any other Ray spells you cast at that opponent for however long, I don't remember. So if they survive but are on the brink of death, you can tag them with a Ray of Frost and have a better to-hit chance. It doesn't grow in damage like Scorching, but by the time that would matter, you'll have actual level 2 spells slots you can use on Scorching as well.

Tanaric, Kil'ak seems impressive, we'll have to see how he manages in battle. Not sure the sheet does check out, though; what is Dragonwrought, exactly? A race?

And I would certainly hope someone could make a more terrifying wizard than me. I built Fiorella before playing a single round of D&D, PVP or otherwise. She's SRD-only with the sole exception of Precocious Apprentice and Seeking Ray, which I picked up from another Arena player after I saw them on his sheet and asked about it. Not because I'm a purist or someone who's in love with the SRD, more because I didn't (and still don't) have any books or anything to pull from, so it was my main resource. And really, even now the only thing I'd change about her is giving her 14 Con and 12 Cha (where right now it's the other way round) so I could have Shape Soulmeld Rageclaws instead of just a Toughness.

[daggaz]

Seeking ray, eh? thanks man, Im woefully short on books, will have to see if I cant find that in my net sources.

Dragonwrought is the only template allowed in the arena.. costs 100 gp, you crawl into a clay egg you build and are reborn as dragonwrought. Its kinda like a paladin of bahamut fluffwise.. i forget the crunch exactly.

[olentu]

Seeking ray, eh? thanks man, Im woefully short on books, will have to see if I cant find that in my net sources.

Dragonwrought is the only template allowed in the arena.. costs 100 gp, you crawl into a clay egg you build and are reborn as dragonwrought. Its kinda like a paladin of bahamut fluffwise.. i forget the crunch exactly.

That is dragonborn. Dragonwrought is for kobolds.

[daggaz]

oh yeah, my bad. dragonwrought just changes a kobolds type to dragon. they lose the dragon blooded subtype. Not sure if that screws them out of certain RoD feats which need that subtype (easy metamagic among others), i dont have the dragonomonicon... usually its used to take dragon feats, and to get +3 to mental stats for free, as a venerable dragonwrought kobold doesnt suffer the physical penalties for aging.

[hustlertwo]

I'm just asking because I believe the current ruling is that you can only use the UA racial variants (Desert, Fire, Water, all that jazz) in conjunction with pre-existing (which I believe is interpreted as Core) races. I only remember this because it came up when someone tried to create a Water Strongheart Halfling, and was denied. This seems like a similar situation.

Daggaz, here's the Seeking Ray info, don't remember the source, but you can probably ask RandomAction about it.

Seeking Ray
Level: Duskblade 2, Sorc/wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft +10 ft/level)
Effect: Ray
Duration: Instant: see text
Saving throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

You create a ray that deals 4d6 points of electrical damage if it strikes your target. While this ray requires a ranged touch attack to strike an opponent, it ignores concealment and cover (but not total cover/concealment), and it does not take the standard penalty for firing into melee.
In addition to the damage it deals, the ray creates a link of energy between you and the subject. If this ray struck the target and dealt damage, you gain a +4 bonus on attacks you make with ray spells (including another casting of this one, if desired) against the subject for 1 round per caster level. If you cast seeking ray a second time on a creature that is still linked to you from a previous casting, the duration of the new link overlaps (does not stack with) the remaining duration of the previous one.

[Tanaric]

oh yeah, my bad. dragonwrought just changes a kobolds type to dragon. they lose the dragon blooded subtype. Not sure if that screws them out of certain RoD feats which need that subtype (easy metamagic among others), i dont have the dragonomonicon... usually its used to take dragon feats, and to get +3 to mental stats for free, as a venerable dragonwrought kobold doesnt suffer the physical penalties for aging.

Dragons qualify for any dragonblooded feats that they are not specifically excluded from.

Edit:


I only remember this because it came up when someone tried to create a Water Strongheart Halfling, and was denied. This seems like a similar situation.

Dragonwrought is not technically his race. He's still just a Desert Kobold. I put it up there for ease of access for anyone who looked at the sheet and wondered about his ability scores. Dragonwrought is a feat, not a template, not a racial variant.

[Akal Saris]

Eh, water strongheart halfling is stretching the cheesiness pretty far - that's piling 2 variant races on top of each other.

Dragonborn water orc though? Totally awesome.

[taltamir]

The character is a warforged, and therefore immune to poisons. And there's no way that a potion is going down his throat.

Warforged traits:
—Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease,
nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, effects that cause
the sickened condition, and energy drain.

See those? Almost all of those are Fort save conditions.

Sorry for getting your name wrong, Bayar - if it's any consolation, I've had people reply to me as Sars.

clever, combine a race that is immune to the majority of effects that require the save you are sacrificing... nice idea.

[Tyndmyr]

Speaking of races, are there any small races that grant an extra feat?

Edit: Im optimizing an aristocraft for the fun of it, using the high starting funds to buy large quantities of consumables. Any suggestions for making thrown weapons such as flasks of acid better?

[Bayar]

Strongheart halfling grants an extra feat.

[PhoenixRivers]

Speaking of races, are there any small races that grant an extra feat?

Edit: Im optimizing an aristocraft for the fun of it, using the high starting funds to buy large quantities of consumables. Any suggestions for making thrown weapons such as flasks of acid better?

Consumables?

Um, there's a Mad Alchemist feat, from PHB2, but I believe it's a bit lackluster. Sneak attack and other precision damage work, as well.

[hustlertwo]

Warforged are great, one of my favorite builds from another person is a Warforged mage whose high AC and ability to do decent in melee melded nicely with his Seeking Ray (this being the person who told me about the spell). Didn't seem to win a lot, though, just some bad luck in the rolls getting hit with crits and such. However, the lack of move speed on Warforged can cripple them in combat.

[Tyndmyr]

Consumables?

Um, there's a Mad Alchemist feat, from PHB2, but I believe it's a bit lackluster. Sneak attack and other precision damage work, as well.

Im thinking point blank shot(not sure if this applies to thrown items...does it?) and far shot. Far shot is practically required, given the crappy range increment on thrown items.


Random thought...are there any LA0 races that have stat increases greater than +2? That strikes me as particularily handy for many builds, even if there's a nasty tradeoff.

[PhoenixRivers]

Im thinking point blank shot(not sure if this applies to thrown items...does it?) and far shot. Far shot is practically required, given the crappy range increment on thrown items.


Random thought...are there any LA0 races that have stat increases greater than +2? That strikes me as particularily handy for many builds, even if there's a nasty tradeoff.

Jermlaine, MM2. (with 3.5 update)

-8 Str, +6 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int, +6 Wis, -6 Cha
Speak with rats
40 move
Fey type
Size: Tiny

Equates to a +5 to hit with thrown (+3 for dex, +2 for size)

[HCL]

Jermlaine, MM2. (with 3.5 update)

-8 Str, +6 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int, +6 Wis, -6 Cha
Speak with rats
40 move
Fey type
Size: Tiny

Equates to a +5 to hit with thrown (+3 for dex, +2 for size)

is banned in Arena, and by sane DMs everywhere

Orcs have +4 str, Mongrelfolk have +4 con

[Foryn Gilnith]

Since nobody mentioned it, Seeking Ray was from PHB2.

[PhoenixRivers]

Dragonborn Water Orc
Cost: 100gp, LA 0

+4 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha
Also has a few special abilities from Dragonborn, and a swim speed. Doesn't have Light sensitivity from orc (or darkvision, though you can get darkvision from Dragonborn).

[VanIsleKnight]

I found out something -really- quick.

If you're going to play an arena style fight at 1st level, starting with nothing but tattered rags as clothes cuz your slaved pit fighters?

Be a dwarf. Darkvision is -very- useful. Bloody darkness.

[hustlertwo]

In general, there aren't really any races (LA +0, at least) allowable in Arena that allow for a level 1 Dex mod greater than +5 (keeping in mind you can't go over +4 on the point buy). That I'm aware of, at least.

And Arena doesn't have many dwarves, halflings tend to be the most popular small races (Strongheart variant is one reason, another is the thrown weapon bonus), as well as gnomes (particularly whisper gnomes). Dwarves, not so much. And darkvision's virtually useless in Arena, as the vast majority of maps have only sunlight.

[VanIsleKnight]

Ah, well, the arena we were fighting in wasn't an official one. It was a completely enclosed magical arena. Corridors, torches, stone. Like a low level dungeon that could disappear when the battle was over.


Gods are jerks.

[tyckspoon]

And Arena doesn't have many dwarves, halflings tend to be the most popular small races (Strongheart variant is one reason, another is the thrown weapon bonus), as well as gnomes (particularly whisper gnomes). Dwarves, not so much. And darkvision's virtually useless in Arena, as the vast majority of maps have only sunlight.

Dwarves aren't small, anyway. They're Medium with special rules to make them slow. I suspect you'd see a lot more of them if Warforged were not permitted; Dwarves have the next best defenses against the most common kill tactics with racial bonuses against spells, poisons, and +Con for a little extra Fort & HP buffer.

[hustlertwo]

Dwarves aren't small, anyway. They're Medium with special rules to make them slow. I suspect you'd see a lot more of them if Warforged were not permitted; Dwarves have the next best defenses against the most common kill tactics with racial bonuses against spells, poisons, and +Con for a little extra Fort & HP buffer.

Yeah, Warforged are more common than dwarves, likely for that reason. No sense in using a slow race that's resistant to poisons and status effects when you can use a slow race that's utterly impervious to them. But me, I say there's no point in using a slow race at all. When I see a melee character on the docket waiting to be approved who has only 30 move (or worse, 20), I sincerely hope I'm matched against them to earn an easy win. Mages can probably get away with it; Color Spray can make up for your lack of speed, since the threat of it is effective at keeping foes at bay (and if not, the actual usage of it can simply end things right there). But if you don't have some reasonable way to do damage from afar, I'd say 40 speed is the bare minimum. Even then I still suggest tossing a crossbow or sling in there to cover all eventualities.