(4.0) best striker, fav class

[incubus5075]

What is everyone's favorite class in 4 ed? Why? In your opinion what makes the most damage outputting class? I wouls have to say storm socerror with the right build can do serious damage with at-will's. Several items increase lightning damage as does several feats. Pick up dual implement casting feat and keep on increasing dex and cha. At level 30 The at-will were doing 2d6+49 damage per hit.

So what is your fav class and the best class in your opinion?

[tcrudisi]

Just by reading the title, I was going to say "Sorcerer," but it turns out that you beat me to it. So in the name of being different, a TWF Ranger can do some great damage as well.

As for my favorite class? Out of all the ones I've played, I really enjoyed the Bard and Sorcerer. I'll soon be trying a Wizard and just from the looks of it, I am going to love it more than ever. What else can do 36d6 + 180 at level 1 using only at-wills and an action point? (Note: that will never, ever happen in a game. But it could.) Of course, even though I took those two at-wills, I'm wanting to do a real controller. So far I have seen 3 wizards played, and two of those were among the worst characters I have ever seen. I blame the players. The third wizard started off like the other two, but then at my encouragement (I was DM'ing), decided to try out his "control" spells. He's since trivialized most of the combats and turned into the best character in the group... and one of the best I've ever seen played in 4e.

[Kurald Galain]

What is everyone's favorite class in 4 ed?
Mine is wizard.


In your opinion what makes the most damage outputting class?
See, that is not a matter of opinion, but one of fact. Check the CharOp boards on the WOTC forums for details. IIRC the most damaging single-target striker is the ranger.


So what is your fav class and the best class in your opinion?
Best defender: fighter. Best striker (if we define best as "most damaging"): ranger. Best healer: cleric. Best leader: taclord.

[Indon]

Best defender: fighter.

What makes the Fighter the best defender - is he the defender who does the most with marks, or something?

[incubus5075]

I think the best defending part of the fighter is that he/she can mark multiple opponents and his defensive attack is an immediat INTERRUPT. most other defenders are reactions. Though the shielding swordmage built right can cause a monster's damage output to be really minor

how can a wizard do 36d6+180??????

[Awesomologist]

Yeah, by the numbers a TWF Ranger is the best striker. Don't forget though that D&D 4e is more of a team style game and some classes can fill several roles.

Our party has found Fey Pact Warlocks to be great controllers with a decent amount of damage. We also prefer the Shielding Swordmage over the Fighter and Paladin.

There's no real "Best" class in 4e, as most can be played pretty effectively in their roles.

[sombrastewart]

I've played a Fey/Dark pact warlock, paladin, avenger and some others. Those three come to mind for me because they've been my favorites. I know that fighters get the immediate interrupt and multiple marks, however, Paladins get the Divine Sanction now (which is especially sweet in the undead-heavy area we're in). The Feylock seems to be just this side of a striker, with controller on the other, but that's perfectly fine. Lots of psychic damage and will-targeting attacks mean plenty of hits.

Oh, and the Avenger is just all around fun, for me at least.

[Mando Knight]

Yeah, by the numbers a TWF Ranger is the best striker.

Yep. Look at Twin Strike, at level 30 with Weapon Focus, TWF, +6 Bastard Swords, Power Attack, and Lethal Hunter (a fairly easy combination available in PHB1, and listed right off the top of my head. Not that optimized.):

Two attacks that deal 2[W] damage each. So what? Let's look at our numbers.
3d8 (Lethal Hunter, Hunter's Quarry)
4d10 (2x2[W], d10 weapon dice)
+3x2 (Weapon Focus)
+1x2 (TWF)
+6x2 (Enhancement)
+6x2 (Power Attack)

For a total of... 4d10+3d8+32, which deals a maximum of 96 damage, and a minimum of 39, with average damage being 67.5.

I could also throw in the Godhunter Epic Destiny and the Pit Fighter Paragon Path to inflict vulnerability and deal +Wis per attack. And look into various item powers to deal even more damage. And then there's Blade Cascade.

[Dragatus]

how can a wizard do 36d6+180??????

That's what I'm wondering as well. There is nothing in the PHB1 that would allow that. Must be from Arcane Power or something.

[Sipex]

Currently I've only played a Cleric but I'll be playing a Bard soon (yes I know, leader to leader, not much variety). I'm just happy I feel useful outside of healing now though.

As for damage output? I'd put a vote for either Ranger or Sorceror.

[Draz74]

how can a wizard do 36d6+180??????

An area attack against very tightly-packed monsters? (Nobody said it was all to one target.)

[Kiero]

Playing a Two-weapon Ranger, wouldn't want to play anything else. Stalk around the battlefield and kill stuff, that's my job. Besides positioning, my tactics rarely have to be more sophisticated than "Twin Strike or something else?", which is perfect.

[Hzurr]

My favorite thing about 4E so far is that there aren't any "bad" classes (although I have been a little underwhelmed by the Shaman, but I don't know if that's a problem with the class, or just the very passive player).

I would most likely have to say that Warlords are my favorite class, with Bards, Fighters, and Barbarians fighting for 2nd. I just feel like the Warlord role of healing & tactics and making everyone else so much more awesome was something I never really saw in 3.5.

The only class I don't really care for at all is a rogue, (which is ironic since they were by far my favorite in 3.5)

[incubus5075]

A rogue is still a contender for most damage out put. with the feats wintertouched, lasting frost, and a frost rapier you can get CA every round. There 29th power killing strike (or something like that) does 9(w) damage and doubles any damage done by sneak attack. Through in +8 due to dex and not even mentioning magical weapon bonuses or anything and you got over 140 Dmg in one strike!, spend an action point and you can do even more. SO don't leave out the little halfling guys and the stealthy drow.

The DnDI assassin is also sick if you wanna check them out. Plus they are versatile, able to teleport all over the place and fun as heck to play (i'm playing a changling assassin)

[tcrudisi]

It involves using Storm Pillar and Thunderwave. Storm Pillar is from Arcane Power and reads: "Each enemy that moves into a square adjacent to the Storm Pillar takes 1d6+Int mod damage." So basically, you summon the pillar and then push the monsters through it with Thunderwave.

Actually, my math is off. Theoretically, in the right circumstances, I could do much higher than the 36d6 + 180 using nothing but those two spells and my Action Point. It deals it over 9 creatures, though, and relies on the battlefield to be laid out perfectly. Conditions that will only occur in theoretical playtesting and never in real-game situations.

Yes, the TWF Ranger is the top single-target dps, but I still think a Sorcerer trumps them for overall striker damage. Also, it depends on the level range you are talking about. I've seen a Barbarian look stupid-good at the heroic tier.

[Artanis]

My favorite class is the Archery Ranger. What can I say, I just love playing archers in RPGs (and call me a purist, but if I'm playing an archer, I'm damn well playing an archer, not a non-archer character with a bow :smallwink: )


The "best" class depends on what you mean by "best". Kurald Galain had an example of this in his post: if you rank Leaders by healing, the Cleric is "best", but if you rank them by other stuff like moving allies around and buffing, then a Taclord is right at the top.



What makes the Fighter the best defender - is he the defender who does the most with marks, or something?

When you boil it down, a Defender's job is to keep the others in the party from getting hurt. There's two basic ways to do this: make the enemies want to hurt the Defender and make the enemies unable to hurt his buddies. Between its nearly Striker-esque damage output and its well-documented ability to lock an enemy in place, the Fighter is at or near the top of both categories.

[incubus5075]

yea it really depends on the concept of what you're looking for as to what the "best" is. My idea of best is the most damaging yet still fun. I like the DnDI assassin because though he doesn't put up as much damage is my 'alltime favorite' class the rogue, the assassin controlls the battlefield really well. With the at-will teleport he is a rogue's best friend when it comes to flanking and an atwill power that pulls and slows an enemy is very handy to isolate and my party's rogue and myself totally ravage a monster working together. The warlord with an exeutioner's axe is IMO the best leader cause he buffs and does serious damage. The wizard is gonna always be the best controller and the swordmage defender has an awesome 'feel' to it even if it isn't the best mechanically.

[TheEmerged]

In my case, my favorite class is between the bard & swordmage. I'd definitely be playing one of these if I were a player instead of the DM.

The best striker depends somewhat on the situation. As someone pointed out, mathematically a TWF fighter wins out -- at level 30, under certain circumstances, with a certain build... In practice, it's much tighter than those numbers would suggest. The party I DM for has a Brutal Scoundral rogue that does absolutely frightening damage at times (at level 4, there was a round where he did 53 damage to a single target).

Best defender? Yeah, fighter takes this one because of its ability to actually stop moves. Our party runs with an assault swordmage and he has trouble keeping the monster's attention at times -- but has some nifty utility to make up for this. Despite looking overpowered at first, in testing it turns out that the Warden can't do much with all those marks it puts out.

[potatocubed]

What makes the Fighter the best defender - is he the defender who does the most with marks, or something?

Of all the defender classes, the fighter is 'stickiest'. Which means that a fighter has the easiest time preventing the bad guys from just ignoring him and pounding on the squishies in the back ranks. This stems from his particular way of punishing marked enemies combined with powers that let him mark many, many people at once. Compare with the paladin, who has a much harder time doing the same thing and whose marking ability is considerably weaker.

My favourite classes are varied - I'd say paladin (def), sorcerer (str), shaman (ldr) and every controller.

[FoE]

Where does the Barbarian rank in the hiearchy of Strikers? I haven't played the class, I'm just curious.

[Indon]

Despite looking overpowered at first, in testing it turns out that the Warden can't do much with all those marks it puts out.

I found that the feat that allows me to slow with an opportunity attack facilitates my Warden defenderyness substantially.

But yeah, only one attack vs. Fort, which mostly helps people deal damage to the mob, is kinda meh on the defending side.

[Corvus]

My favourite class currently is the Invoker. I'm also partial to the primal classes, as much for the flavour as anything.

Currently I'm playing a Revenant Shadar-Kai Vestiage Pact Warlock with the Academy Master PP. Only level 16 so far but he puts out the damage and is very hard to kill. He'll be taking Consort of the Raven Queen for his epic destiny. By the time he hits 30 he will be frightening - pretty much unkillable and doing massive damage with his at-will.

He has Arcane Implement Proficiency, so can use light blades as implements for his spells and carries a pair of daggers for Dual Implement Spellcasting. Has Weapon Focus, Called Shot (+5 damage if received prime shot bonus), Prime Punisher (gets prime shot bonus on melee attacks if no ally is adjacent to the target) and of course Reapers Touch (Eldrich Blast can be used as a melee basic attack).

Gear includes Shadow Warlock armour (while Shadow Walk gives you concealment, you get CA against cursed opponents), Ankmon's Bracers (when you hit an enemy you have CA against with an arcane attack power, do 1D10 extra damage and regain that many hit points), an offhand Bloodclaw dagger, Hands of Hadar (if you hit an enemy you have CA against and deal your curse damage, deal an extra 2d6 damage).

As long as he moves 3 squares (not hard with an at-will teleport utility), Shadow Walk triggers. Curse the target and you have CA against them. Make sure the target has none of your allies against it. End result a very nasty melee attack using Eldrict Blast.

Damage at 30 would be.

2D10 + 10 (Con modifier) +6 enhancement +6 offhand enhancement +3 weapon focus + 5 PP Fundamental Mastery + 12 Bloodclaw + 5 Called Shot +3D6 Curse +1d10 (Ankhmon's Bracers) + 2d6 (Hands of Hadar). Total 3d10 + 5D6 + 47. Maximum 107, minimum 55, average 81

Just teleports around stabbing things to death.

[NeoVid]

Kurald Galain had an example of this in his post: if you rank Leaders by healing, the Cleric is "best",


I thought Artificer was the best healer?

Anyway, my favorite class to play is Taclord, since I like being responsible for my team winning. And it gives me an IC reason to tell people what to do. :smallbiggrin:

I like Sorcerer, but strikers aren't as interesting as leaders, sadly.

[TheEmerged]

RE: Barbarian. I haven't done as much playtesting with the primal classes as I have the arcane/divine/martial classes and we don't have any of the primal classes in actual play yet. Based on theory-running a few barbarians through Dungeon Delves however, I'd place them below the rogue/ranger duet (first place) and the sorceror (second place) but ahead of the avenger (last place). Your mileage probably differs, especially in actual play, of course.

[7th lvl scrub]

I've seen a Barbarian in one of my groups do absolutely insane damage with his multi-attacking powers, and Final Confrontation so I'd say that's probably one of the better strikers.

For my favorite classes it probably goes like this for each role.

Leader - Warlord (Played one for over a year in my first 4e campaign, which is now in epic tier. Dragonborn with Bravura Pres.)

Defender - Fighter (Playing one in a second 4e campaign. Longtooth Shifter Tempest Fighter)

Striker - Barbarian (Played a couple in a few different one shots. Played both types, a Minotaur Rageblood and Human Thaneborn)

Controller - Druid (I've made a few, never actually played one though)

For my favorite build, I'm torn between Bravura Warlord and Tempest Fighter...