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Rixx
2009-10-01, 06:18 PM
I just got a copy of the Mutants and Masterminds core rulebook, and I'm really excited to start playing! The system is really flexible and I got flooded with ideas just by reading it. Only problem is, I'm a little confused about how powers work (mostly alternate powers, feats, and drawbacks, and their affect on point cost). Most of the book is written pretty clearly but I can't seem to quite wrap my head around it.

Are there any good resources for beginning character builders like me? I'm sure this'll all be fairly obvious once I figure it out, but it's taking a little while. Normally I'd run it by someone more experienced with the system than I, but none of my other tabletop friends have ever played before.

The Rose Dragon
2009-10-01, 06:23 PM
Here you go. (http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=24919)

Start from there. Stalk the forums a bit. Ask questions. They're usually friendly, except when Christopher McGlothlin's books are involved. For some reason, those tend to be polarizing.

kpenguin
2009-10-01, 06:24 PM
Read Elric's example battles. They're very enlightening as to how to run combat in a game.

kamikasei
2009-10-01, 06:28 PM
Or you could just ask here. Basically, extras/flaws affect the cost per rank, feats affect the total cost, alternate powers are bought as feats on the main power and give you as many points as the main power has except for those spent on alternate power feats.

Rixx
2009-10-01, 06:35 PM
So an "Alternate" set basically adds 1 to the total cost of the power, allowing you to substitute it for another power or set of powers?

Also, does the point cost ever affect the Power Level limit? I.E. does adding extra features to a Level 5 power bring it higher than level 5?

Hrm, let me see if I got this right... okay, so lets say I want to have a character who can manifest an energy weapon or a shield in one hand - we'll assume power level 8 or so.

So I give him the "Energy Weapon" power (which I just made up). Basically, this means he can do a Strike 8 (Costing 8 points), or also manifest a Shield 8 (Also 8 points), and the total cost of the power is 9 points?

Hyfigh
2009-10-01, 06:54 PM
So an "Alternate" set basically adds 1 to the total cost of the power, allowing you to substitute it for another power or set of powers?

Yes. Say you have Flight 4 (cost I think is 2 pp per rank) with a single Alternate Power of Super Strength 4 (cost on SS is 2 pp as well). The Flight power will now cost 9 pp, rather than the normal 8 but will allow you to trade it out for Super Strength.


Also, does the point cost ever affect the Power Level limit? I.E. does adding extra features to a Level 5 power bring it higher than level 5?

The power level limit is set by the DM/GM. It's based on the total number of power points spent on a character. Average is PL 10 with 150 pp spent. This means when all is said and done the character is not allowed to have spent more than a total of 150 pp to build himself.

Adding additional features (feats, flaws, and extras) does increase the total cost of the power and will apply towards your characters overall power level and/or the cap that was set.

Xallace
2009-10-01, 06:56 PM
So an "Alternate" set basically adds 1 to the total cost of the power, allowing you to substitute it for another power or set of powers?

Yes.

Also, does the point cost ever affect the Power Level limit? I.E. does adding extra features to a Level 5 power bring it higher than level 5?
No.


Hrm, let me see if I got this right... okay, so lets say I want to have a character who can manifest an energy weapon or a shield in one hand - we'll assume power level 8 or so.

So I give him the "Energy Weapon" power (which I just made up). Basically, this means he can do a Strike 8 (Costing 8 points), or also manifest a Shield 8 (Also 8 points), and the total cost of the power is 9 points?

He could manifest the sword OR the shield at any given time, but never both. In that case, yes, it would cost 9.

Rixx
2009-10-01, 07:02 PM
He could manifest the sword OR the shield at any given time, but never both. In that case, yes, it would cost 9.

Ah, yeah, that's what I meant - the sword OR the shield.

Can the same power have multiple "Alternate" uses, where each of these alternate uses encompasses more than one power?

Let's say I want his energy weapon / shield manifestation power to apply to both hands - so he could use his power to...

- Manifest a short sword and shield (Strike 6, Shield 2)

- Manifest a two-handed sword (Strike 8)

- Manifest a spear (Strike 7, extended reach (+1) )

- Manifest two swords (Strike 7, split attack (+1) )

And since each of these configuration uses 8pp, and it has three additional configurations, that brings it up to 11pp?

Tengu_temp
2009-10-01, 07:03 PM
Also, remember that power level cap only affects some powers. You can have Super Speed 15 even in a PL 1 campaign. Well, it will cost you all your character points in that case, but still.



Can the same power have multiple "Alternate" uses, where each of these alternate uses encompasses more than one power?

<snip>

And since each of these configuration uses 8pp, and it has three additional configurations, that brings it up to 11pp?

That's correct.

Rixx
2009-10-01, 07:07 PM
One last thing to clear up, then - if the campaign is PL 8, can I use that power as-is? Since it costs 11pp, do I have to be PL 11 to use it?

Tengu_temp
2009-10-01, 07:08 PM
PL only affects ranks of your powers, not their total cost. And, as I mentioned in my last post, only some powers.

kpenguin
2009-10-01, 07:10 PM
The power level limit is set by the DM/GM. It's based on the total number of power points spent on a character. Average is PL 10 with 150 pp spent. This means when all is said and done the character is not allowed to have spent more than a total of 150 pp to build himself.

This is wrong. Power level is based on what caps your character reaches with its attributes. A PL 10 character can have any amount of power points and a character with 150 power points could be a wide range of power levels.

Rixx
2009-10-01, 07:10 PM
Ah, excellent! I think I'm getting the hang of this, now. Thanks a lot for your help, guys!

Although I do have a character concept I want to make that I can't seem to figure out. What do you do for a character who's primary power is grabbing people from afar with a grappling-hook type device? I think it'd somehow involve Improved Grab and some kind of extended-reach Strike attack, but I'm not sure how that'd work.

kpenguin
2009-10-01, 07:11 PM
Snare seems the most appropriate thing here for grabbing someone from afar.

kamikasei
2009-10-01, 07:13 PM
Adding additional features (feats, flaws, and extras) does increase the total cost of the power and will apply towards your characters overall power level and/or the cap that was set.

This is a misleading answer to the question.

"Damage" (the +x to the save DC, be it actual damage via a toughness save or some other effect requiring, say, a will save) is capped, and usually tied to rank, so the PL affects the maximum rank you can have in a power with a save. It affects the total defense bonus you can have, made up from all powers adding to it as well as the base bonus. And so on... but the PL doesn't actually limit your ranks in a power directly, only indirectly via capping the bonuses the powers can grant. For example, at the moment I have an MnM character who's PL 10 but has Device 30, because she has no powers and almost no combat ability outside her transformed state (modeled via Device). But all the attack/defense powers the Device grants have PL-set caps.

And no, once the things being capped remain within their limits, the actual cost of a power is not limited by PL but only by the points available to you. A Strike 10 is 10 points, and an Autofire Strike 10 is 20 points, but both are still only rank 10.

Tengu_temp
2009-10-01, 07:13 PM
Although I do have a character concept I want to make that I can't seem to figure out. What do you do for a character who's primary power is grabbing people from afar with a grappling-hook type device? I think it'd somehow involve Improved Grab and some kind of extended-reach Strike attack, but I'm not sure how that'd work.

Snare with Tether.


This is wrong.

It's what 99% of people go with, and highly suggested by the book itself. Hardly wrong.

kpenguin
2009-10-01, 07:18 PM
It's what 99% of people go with, and highly suggested by the book itself. Hardly wrong.

I find that the pp allotted tends to be based around the Power Level, rather than the Power Points dictating what Power Level the game is.

Rixx
2009-10-01, 07:18 PM
Ah, Snare with Tether seems to do the trick.

Is there any way I can get a free grapple attempt if I reel them in all the way?

Tengu_temp
2009-10-01, 07:29 PM
I find that the pp allotted tends to be based around the Power Level, rather than the Power Points dictating what Power Level the game is.

Either way, power level and power points are strictly related. At least for PCs - you can build NPCs however you want.


Ah, Snare with Tether seems to do the trick.

Is there any way I can get a free grapple attempt if I reel them in all the way?

I don't know is there any way to do that, but you can always snare them in one round, and then reel in and grapple in another. Use extra effort to surge and you can do it even in one round.

Rixx
2009-10-01, 07:33 PM
Ahaha, awesome.

Basically the character concept is someone who has an arm-mounted device that basically acts as a grappling hook made of energy. (I'm just full of "made of energy" ideas, apparently.) She can use it to swing around on any surface she can grapple, as well as grab objects and opponents from afar, reel them in, and throw them great distances. (She gets super strength, but only applying to objects she has ensnared with her grappling hook.)

She also gets the "deflect" ability, as grabbing slow-moving projectiles in mid-air and slinging them back.

kpenguin
2009-10-02, 12:19 AM
You might want to look into some Doc Ock builds floating around.

JeminiZero
2009-10-02, 07:11 AM
Basically the character concept is someone who has an arm-mounted device that basically acts as a grappling hook made of energy. (I'm just full of "made of energy" ideas, apparently.) She can use it to swing around on any surface she can grapple, as well as grab objects and opponents from afar, reel them in, and throw them great distances.


Elongation with the Projection extra (attacking the elongated limb does not damage the user). Your extended limb can be used for melee, or to start grapple attacks as per normal grapple rules without the need of cheesy Improved Grab. Elongation also has inbuilt options on movement by elongating, grabbing something, and contracting to pull yourself along.

It might be worthwhile buying Supermovement Wall Climbing x2 (Flaw: Limited to energy arm), so that she can grab the side of buildings with it, and pull herself up (IMHO: its only worth a flaw if she can only wall climb with that limb. That way, if she is on a featureless vertical plane, she can anchor to a point with her limb, but cannot truly "climb" the wall as she cannot detach/re-attach the limb without falling)



(She gets super strength, but only applying to objects she has ensnared with her grappling hook.)


This would probably be super strength limited to the limb. Since however, there are very few situations where she cannot apply her superstrength, it is probably not worth a flaw, more likely a drawback at most.



She also gets the "deflect" ability, as grabbing slow-moving projectiles in mid-air and slinging them back.


Define "slow moving". :smalltongue:

potatocubed
2009-10-02, 07:38 AM
Define "slow moving". :smalltongue:

I think a definition of slow-moving projectiles is built right into the Deflection power, isn't it?

kamikasei
2009-10-02, 07:45 AM
Basically the character concept is someone who has an arm-mounted device that basically acts as a grappling hook made of energy. (I'm just full of "made of energy" ideas, apparently.) She can use it to swing around on any surface she can grapple, as well as grab objects and opponents from afar, reel them in, and throw them great distances. (She gets super strength, but only applying to objects she has ensnared with her grappling hook.)

Consider Telekinesis with an alternate of Snare and maybe some others. (Telekinesis lets you grapple, disarm, trip etc. and gives you five times your power rank as effective strength for lifting objects.) Swinging is a mode of Super-Movement and can be bought on its own for two points.