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Tyndmyr
2009-10-02, 02:33 PM
Was discussing this in another topic, and didn't want to derail it, so Im starting anew.

Im sure a few of you have seen them...the rogues who steal literally everything that isn't nailed down, and have a good try at whatever is. The fact that you're in their party isn't so much an obstacle as it is "repeat business". Obviously, this does lovely things for the party dynamics.

Alternative source of the problem: Someone rolled a kender.

I've actually got this in a current party...multiple rogues. Lets just say that the loot distribution is heavily dependant on who happens to find it, and picking of pockets is frequent. Skills are such that the probability of getting caught is relatively low, but it's bound to happen eventually. Im a wizard, but unfortunately, also lowest member of party atm due to an untimely deployment(this should fix itself in a few sessions).

How do you go about fixing such a problem in character(since the player(s) will invariably justify it as what their char would do), and in such a way that doesn't destroy the party? Merely noting it and blasting them when their back is turned is easy enough, but is likely to result in more conflict.

TheCountAlucard
2009-10-02, 02:35 PM
...since the player(s) will invariably justify it as what their char would do...Well, for one, have 'em sit down and read this article (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/tll307KmEm4H9k6efFP.html), particularly the part about deciding to react differently. "Playing your character" does NOT have to mean "screwing everybody over."

Mark Hall
2009-10-02, 02:40 PM
Truthfully, if everyone is having fun, go with it. If a few people are not, and others are having fun at their expense, ask the rogue players to at least confine it to other rogues.

A party where people freely pickpocket each other sounds fun.

"Ok, you've been traveling for three days. I've got this program here, that's going to random roll all of your equipment. Ewwww... sorry, Bob. You must have passed out last night. You're down to the three platinum you hid 'where no one would go looking for them' and one boot."

HenryHankovitch
2009-10-02, 02:46 PM
"I prepared Explosive Runes this morning."

RagnaroksChosen
2009-10-02, 02:47 PM
With kender most of them will give it back if you catch them.

Also If your annoyed by it ask them to stop.

The first time you catch them doing it you could always guilt them... about how its obstructive to your goals... as far as the kender goes GL with that cuz thats what they do just steal stuff alot... There so amusing.

Pika...
2009-10-02, 02:50 PM
I am kinda with Mark.

I would suggest that before your next session ask everyone to please sit down a moment so that you can all discuss something important.

Let them know your feels about the issue, and see what everyone else is feeling about it. Then see if you can come to an agreement out-of-character so the feces doesn't eventually hit your gaming room fan.

I myself would LOVE to either play in, or run for, a group like that. Not an every campaign thing, but once or every now-and-then it would be an amazing game in my opinion. But then again, there are people who probably would not like the kind of game/group/atmosphere.

In my opinion, a key thing is to make clear what meta-gaming limits people might have in such a game. For example, I would have no problem laying things out as "If someone catches me I will have no hard feelings out-of-character if I get blast with a fireball. But then again, your low-AC wizard better not miss Mike. :smallamused:.", followed by "You all OK with that?", and if the entire group agrees than I'd feel there would be an understanding.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-02, 02:54 PM
Where everyone can do it might be...I've contemplated a campaign with all kender wizards. Prepare your spells based on whatever spellbook you happen to have at the time. The amount of randomness and amusement would likely be relatively high.

However, in a more balanced party, the ability of everyone to steal is definitely not equal, thanks mainly to slight of hand. And, once wealth gets unbalanced, it's easier for it to keep getting unbalanced. After all, he's the guy with the bag of holding. In my particular instance, there are currently five players, who round robin DM. Two klepto rogues. When I DM, I typically will have loot where rogues cannot easily conceal it from the party. Actually on the body of the boss, in a storeroom, etc. Where it can reasonably be at least observed. This is certainly not true of everyone, and in any case, theft happens while sleeping as well, leading to interparty conflict as we play "where have the magic items gone".

The whole effect is reasonably negative, and the whole "it's IC" thing is getting abused a bit. So, what are some reasonably effective ways of reducing this without it becoming a showdown? I could easily simply nuke them both to death, once I had IC knowledge of the guilty parties, but that risks being taken as an OOC problem, and in any case, doesn't help the party work together better, since now someones rerolling....or worse, the party rezzes the character.

I'd prefer ways to directly prevent stealing from me...preferably coupled with ways to covertly ensure nobody's skimming loot. I don't mind the odd shiny item pocketed, but when WBL is being severely screwed in favor of a coupla people, you've gotta do something.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-02, 02:56 PM
"I prepared Explosive Runes this morning."

Oh, I like this one. Im so casting that on the next valuable item I find.

As for "sitting down and talking about it"...would be considered verboten OOC, since it'd be metagaming. IC, assuming my sense motive held up to their bluff, it wouldn't stop them.

kestrel404
2009-10-02, 02:58 PM
The way we always handled this in my RPG group was to make the party theif the official treasurer. He got a very small (like 5%) extra cut, and it was HIS JOB to make sure everyone's money and equipment was accounted for. And that they could always find their 'Wand of X' when they needed it.

If your rogue isn't trustworthy enough to handle this job, kill them and take back your stuff. I'm serious. Don't tell them, "The next time I catch you pickpocketing a party member, I cut off your hands". That will just cause them not to get caught, and to run away when they do. If you can't trust them enough to let them guard you in your sleep, don't travel with them.

sadi
2009-10-02, 02:59 PM
It all depends on if you catch them in the act. IF so as long as the DM allows it they die in their sleep. Justified by the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one, and their greed would have eventually caused everyone elses death if you're actually good, if you're neutral the justification works with less effort, and if you're evil you don't need any justification.

The fact that in general party greed screws over the game unless the person running intentionally doesn't kill people off. If you get high enough level with little wealth the chances of player fatality increases unless you're playing a game where the player are coddled. And If you're playing in a game where the party is allowed to steal from each other with no repercussions and the dm won't force the players to feel the consequences of their actions, you're probably better off finding another game somewhere else unless you're having a lot more fun than I would be there.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-10-02, 03:01 PM
Oh, I like this one. Im so casting that on the next valuable item I find.

As for "sitting down and talking about it"...would be considered verboten OOC, since it'd be metagaming. IC, assuming my sense motive held up to their bluff, it wouldn't stop them.

Well if there Saying its what there characters would do you could always be like any time an item goes missing look at those two first. as they have a history of stealing things.
Have them empty there stuff out.

Also if your a caster isn't there a spell locate object. might be a good idea cuz all these items seem to go missing.

Telonius
2009-10-02, 03:02 PM
Bluff Check plus Cursed Item with Drawback (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#drawback).


22-25 Character’s skin color changes.

"Hey guys! Check it out, I just bought this Handkerchief of Dex+2! All you have to do is blow your nose with it once a day, and you're harder to hit. The guy at Ye Olde Magic Shoppe let me have it for a real bargain. I really hope this rash of thefts doesn't continue, I don't know if I'll ever get that much of a deal again."

Tyndmyr
2009-10-02, 03:08 PM
Well if there Saying its what there characters would do you could always be like any time an item goes missing look at those two first. as they have a history of stealing things.

Well, the issue is that you often don't know that an item is missing until you need it. This can...suck. The other factor is that you don't always know that an item was stolen at all, as in the case with loot. It's not as if they're going to just bring out the item and confess their sins even if confronted.

Cursed items sound fun. I presume they would be reasonably cheap to purchase. Stone of weight sounds particularly amusing given that they all dumped strength.

I will actually get level 3 spells now, though, so explosive runes are a must.

Telonius
2009-10-02, 03:13 PM
Also, "Locate Object" is a level 2 spell (assuming he's not covered in lead).

RagnaroksChosen
2009-10-02, 03:13 PM
Well, the issue is that you often don't know that an item is missing until you need it. This can...suck. The other factor is that you don't always know that an item was stolen at all, as in the case with loot. It's not as if they're going to just bring out the item and confess their sins even if confronted.

Cursed items sound fun. I presume they would be reasonably cheap to purchase. Stone of weight sounds particularly amusing given that they all dumped strength.

I will actually get level 3 spells now, though, so explosive runes are a must.

Has your player caught any of these characters before?

Even if not... I know I've had a friend who was a mild klepto(didn't know it when i lived with him). I have mild paranoia, after a month or so of livivng there and having all of my socks/pens/dice/lighter(just those he oddly only stole thouse) stolen I started thinking there where gremlins of some sort and begain setting traps/safe gaurds... eventualy i caught him... which there was no malice as he explianed he was a klepto. I would just keep going to him first when something was missing. I also started checking my stuff on a regular basis...

So to relate this to you if you have caught them a few times. Make your character a little parinoid or when any thing goes missing ask them first... including asking to search there stuff..

How do the other non klepto players feel.

Croverus
2009-10-02, 03:19 PM
I had this problem with a rougish bard who would pickpocket from merchants, commoners, guards, and basically every random NPC he happened to walk past while, A) "Entertaining" in the tavern, B) Exploring the market, C) Leaving the city, D) During diplomatic situations.

His slight of hand bonus was rediculous and so I tried to be like "you find a cheap dagger, you find a bag of 2 gp and 2 sp, you find 4 copper" to see if maybe that'd make him less likely to want tos teal if there's such small reward. But he kept going. Then he stole from a guy that was actually a necromancer, who proceeded to curse at the abrd then teleport away (to becoming a return villain later on), and the captain of the guard. His bluff was also so high he could lie about "tripping". Being a halfing and saying he tripped because to him the stones in the street were huge kinda helped his point INC.

As it turns out, a smuch problems as he caused, he actually found 3 adventure hooks (that I had to make up on the fly) from these attmepts at stealing. Including clearing otu some goblins for a Dwarven mining expedition, meeting a hot halfing female theif in the streets (and being saved by her) and the fact that he stole a cursed dagger that he can never get rid off. So at first it was annoying but now its amazing seeing how far he can push his luck.

jiriku
2009-10-02, 03:21 PM
Practical: explain to the rogue players that they're having fun at your expense, and ask them to stop ruining your evening. If they refuse, then you have a decision to make, since you're then continuing to spend your evenings gaming with people who are definitely NOT your friends.

Humorous: buy a bag of devouring and some shiny glass beads and baubles. While the others watch, stuff your beads and baubles into the bag, and say "this bag of holding should keep my stuff safe from you thieves! I'm keeping it on me where none of you can get it." Inevitably it will be stolen from you. Inevitably the thief will root around inside it looking for your loot. From there, it's a 50/50 chance per round that the theft problem solves itself.

Kylarra
2009-10-02, 03:23 PM
Arcane Mark (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcanemark.htm) + Detect magic = lol my stuff is glowing, give it back now.

ericgrau
2009-10-02, 03:24 PM
I know this happens a lot, but I don't see it as actually being possible in a party where you know what you had, you know what's missing, you know who the thief is, and getting everyone to stop, pin down and search a party member is quite practical. Multiple thieves only means you need to stop longer to search.

Rogues that grab treasure while scouting ahead OTOH is a different matter. That's a more practical way to get a minor income boost. Though even then after repeated offenses I bet the party would be suspicious.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-02, 03:26 PM
The other players consisted of a kender sorc, who actually played a kender decently. Klepto, sure, and I knew it, but he wasn't malicious, or doing it for wealth, just randomly picking up random things. I really didn't have an issue with that. He's gone though...may he rest in peace. He's been replaced by a blackguard who I've not yet met.

The other non-rogue character is a monk, and he got sufficiently frustrated at it to do some heavy looting while characters were sleeping. Unfortunately, he'd enlisted outside help from a shady source, who ended up making off with most of the loot. Thanks to my alarm and a lucky poison save, I saw the entire thing, and (with the usual theives happily backing me up), demanded restitution in full for all, and promised all sorts of horrible things if it happened again.

So...IC, I've got all sorts of reason to be paranoid, and they have reason to know I won't tolerate theft.

DudestMonk
2009-10-02, 03:26 PM
What kinda wizard are you? maybe there are some spells you could use...

Craft a contingent spell "Next time I'm pick pocketed teleport the offender to X plane of existence" That will learn em.

Could also start using rope trick or something to go sleep somewhere safe from the rogues.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-02, 03:28 PM
The level 5 kind, unfortunately. With the rogues 6 and 7, respectively.

Amusing as contingent spell will be...and I will abuse it, level 2 spells offer far less possibility for shenanigans.

Kylarra
2009-10-02, 03:28 PM
Rings of Clumsiness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#ringofClumsiness) in your pocket that a rogue puts on might make them think twice. >.>

jiriku
2009-10-02, 03:30 PM
You could set a magic mouth spell on your pack to shout loudly if opened by anyone other than you.

Gnaeus
2009-10-02, 03:31 PM
As for "sitting down and talking about it"...would be considered verboten OOC, since it'd be metagaming. IC, assuming my sense motive held up to their bluff, it wouldn't stop them.

Well, there is Metagaming going on regardless. Most characters, when they learn that there are thieves in their group stealing their stuff, will demand their stuff back, demand that the thieves leave, or leave themselves. Kicking someone's character out of the party is ooc the same as killing them. Leaving the party yourself is ooc the same as having your character die. If you can't take the normal actions your character would take for out of character reasons, it becomes an out of character problem, and it is reasonable to handle it as such.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-10-02, 03:34 PM
You could set a magic mouth spell on your pack to shout loudly if opened by anyone other than you.

" [Character name here] Your being stolen from."

Tyndmyr
2009-10-02, 03:34 PM
Regardless of if it's reasonable or not, it won't be seen as such. Thus the search for an IC way of stopping it. If they're going to bring it to the point where it's a violence...I now have fly, protection from arrows, and fell drained magic missiles. I'm very ok with that. I just want to frame the choice for them in such a way that continuing to steal routinely is not going to have a very high probability of success for them.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-10-02, 03:49 PM
Regardless of if it's reasonable or not, it won't be seen as such. Thus the search for an IC way of stopping it. If they're going to bring it to the point where it's a violence...I now have fly, protection from arrows, and fell drained magic missiles. I'm very ok with that. I just want to frame the choice for them in such a way that continuing to steal routinely is not going to have a very high probability of success for them.

you should turn them over to the local authorities that would be amusing.

Pika...
2009-10-02, 03:49 PM
Where everyone can do it might be...I've contemplated a campaign with all kender wizards. Prepare your spells based on whatever spellbook you happen to have at the time. The amount of randomness and amusement would likely be relatively high.

However, in a more balanced party, the ability of everyone to steal is definitely not equal, thanks mainly to slight of hand. And, once wealth gets unbalanced, it's easier for it to keep getting unbalanced. After all, he's the guy with the bag of holding. In my particular instance, there are currently five players, who round robin DM. Two klepto rogues. When I DM, I typically will have loot where rogues cannot easily conceal it from the party. Actually on the body of the boss, in a storeroom, etc. Where it can reasonably be at least observed. This is certainly not true of everyone, and in any case, theft happens while sleeping as well, leading to interparty conflict as we play "where have the magic items gone".

The whole effect is reasonably negative, and the whole "it's IC" thing is getting abused a bit. So, what are some reasonably effective ways of reducing this without it becoming a showdown? I could easily simply nuke them both to death, once I had IC knowledge of the guilty parties, but that risks being taken as an OOC problem, and in any case, doesn't help the party work together better, since now someones rerolling....or worse, the party rezzes the character.

I'd prefer ways to directly prevent stealing from me...preferably coupled with ways to covertly ensure nobody's skimming loot. I don't mind the odd shiny item pocketed, but when WBL is being severely screwed in favor of a coupla people, you've gotta do something.


Well, again I would suggest just sitting down with the group and discussing it if it is troubling you.

Personally I believe "balance" is a myth which does not, and never will never, exist in any edition of D&D or other RPG, but that is just my view. If you are so worried about it at the very least discussing it with the other usual/main DM(s) might be a good idea.

good_lookin_gus
2009-10-02, 04:09 PM
I'm in camp with Mark Hall, but it's your game. Blasting characters that have Evasion isn't going to do anything unless you do it constantly, and you've got better things to do with your spell slots. I'd suggest AoE Dispel Magic when they're in melee. "Whoops! Evasion doesn't work like that?"

If that doesn't work, Scorching Ray their Wand of Extended Grave Strike when they pull it out. You only need one of them to hit. Blame it on your lack of Precise Shot. "Wow! What are the odds?"

Telonius has covered how to catch them in the act.

Telonius
2009-10-02, 04:14 PM
The other players consisted of a kender sorc, who actually played a kender decently. Klepto, sure, and I knew it, but he wasn't malicious, or doing it for wealth, just randomly picking up random things. I really didn't have an issue with that. He's gone though...may he rest in peace. He's been replaced by a blackguard who I've not yet met.

The other non-rogue character is a monk, and he got sufficiently frustrated at it to do some heavy looting while characters were sleeping. Unfortunately, he'd enlisted outside help from a shady source, who ended up making off with most of the loot. Thanks to my alarm and a lucky poison save, I saw the entire thing, and (with the usual theives happily backing me up), demanded restitution in full for all, and promised all sorts of horrible things if it happened again.

So...IC, I've got all sorts of reason to be paranoid, and they have reason to know I won't tolerate theft.

... your DM also has every reason to prevent the player from taking any more levels in Monk. (Though don't mention this, as it will just make the character more powerful).

Rhiannon87
2009-10-02, 04:22 PM
As for "sitting down and talking about it"...would be considered verboten OOC, since it'd be metagaming. IC, assuming my sense motive held up to their bluff, it wouldn't stop them.

See, I think this is a major problem. Sometimes you have to recognize that it's a game, and in order for the game to work, you need to discuss in-game stuff OOC. You even mention further down the page that you can't force them to leave the party, even though that's the logical, in-character reaction. So you either need to explain that there's already metagaming going on in that you're not demanding people leave the group and thus you need to talk about this problem, or... well, get the non-thief-people in your party to back you up, and demand that the problem characters leave the group. Not the players, necessarily, but the characters. Hey, if the theft is IC, then it's a problem of their character... and this is your IC reaction to their compulsive theft.

Myou
2009-10-02, 04:42 PM
Kill them! Kill them all! Then loot the bodies! IT'S IRONIC! :smallfurious:

Kylarra
2009-10-02, 04:50 PM
Kill them! Kill them all! Then loot the bodies! IT'S IRONIC! :smallfurious:I support this.

Myou
2009-10-02, 04:53 PM
I support this.

Soul Binding those rogues will be all the sweeter when you do it using the very sapphires they stole from you a few days before. :smallsmile:

Plus, with all the loot, it pays for itself!

Otodetu
2009-10-02, 05:44 PM
Most sane persons would get new friends\affiliates... (IC)

Just saying, the only reason your character is holding out is because he is a character, right?

Random832
2009-10-02, 05:56 PM
Oh, I like this one. Im so casting that on the next valuable item I find.

As for "sitting down and talking about it"...would be considered verboten OOC, since it'd be metagaming.

Has your DM actually said this?

If so, quit the group. I'm serious. Or at least find some way to force the issue (the character threatening to leave the group, a logical non-metagame decision, as mentioned above)

jiriku
2009-10-02, 05:57 PM
Yupyup. The most logical in-character reaction would be to evict the thieves from the group, or failing that, to evict yourself from the group and found a new group of adventurers. You don't routinely place yourself in life-threatening situations where you'll have to depend on people who are known to be untrustworthy.

Loot distribution is REALLY best handled like XP - it's a reward given to the people sitting around the table for playing, and should be shared equally, possibly allowing for small perks to those who really shine during the session.

Edit: And you should TOTALLY make loot decisions OOC. Doing otherwise produces a dysfunctional group.

Kallisti
2009-10-02, 06:03 PM
Seriously? You're not allowed to tell the thieves OOC that this is a problem? Find a new group. I'm an avid roleplayer, but if IC/OOC seperation is more important than having fun WHILE PLAYING A GODDAMN GAME...

But, if you must have an IC solution...hmmm...arcane marks would be easy. Very easy. I recommend throwing in some explosive runes, though. Maybe some cursed items in your pack.

awa
2009-10-02, 07:44 PM
this problem is not really something that can be solved in charecter. if these pepole are untrustworthy you never would have formed a party with them in the first place. what would you do if an npc stole from you? the only reason you don't do that is becuase their another person controlling the charecter. the only reason there in a party with you is out of charecter reason you want to have fun playing a game. so this problem cant really be solved in charecter with out great difficulty.

PinkysBrain
2009-10-02, 08:21 PM
How do you go about fixing such a problem in character(since the player(s) will invariably justify it as what their char would do)
Without destroying the party? Not going to happen ... people who justify anti-social behaviour (ie. making the game not fun for others) by saying it's in character will only be stopped by the universal force which is the DM (unlike what they say it stems far more from their out of game character than their in game character and your chances of fixing their out of game character are slim indeed).

If the DM won't step in and you really want to continue with gaming with the group ... then go evil and have as much fun destroying the party as they are having, a normal game is not on the cards.

oxinabox
2009-10-02, 11:55 PM
If the rogue decides to practice theivery on the fighter then the fighter decides to practice greatsword on the rogue.
Then the wizard takes off (fly) and fire balls the whole party.
then everyone except the wizard rerolls new characters.
and hunts the wizard down.

Saddly i think i know people who like that kinda game...

BizzaroStormy
2009-10-03, 12:10 AM
You could set a magic mouth spell on your pack to shout loudly if opened by anyone other than you.

"Your Heward's Handy Haversack is ajar. Your Heward's Handy Haversack is ajar."

Anyway, as for the problem, if the person's character is doing it maliciously or for wealth, have their alignment shift to evil. After that, and encounter with someone of divine nature (paladin, cleric, Thor) realize that they are evil, have them arrested, or something like that.

BobVosh
2009-10-03, 12:16 AM
I assume this happens mainly at night? If so extended rope trick. Sleep in your magic safety hole. Don't let them in.

If not have a bag of holding. Hold said bag of holding at all times. You can't slight of hand an attended object. Bulge in various places around your body from spell component pouches. In these bags have only bat guano. Noone wants to steal from the stinky wizard. When you are in a place where you need to not smell like bat poo cast prestidigitation.

Also explosive runes is worthless. As are all traps if they are rogues. Plus at least target a weak save, use Snake Sigil. Will save or do nothing...for quite a while.

Godskook
2009-10-03, 12:42 AM
As for "sitting down and talking about it"...would be considered verboten OOC, since it'd be metagaming. IC, assuming my sense motive held up to their bluff, it wouldn't stop them.

That's not metagaming.

BizzaroStormy
2009-10-03, 12:49 AM
I think they mean that they don't want to bring in-game issues into real life, which is completely respectable. If the other players have a problem with it, then they can figure out that their stuff is missing, start searching the rest of the party, find the stuff on the rogue, and deal with him then.

Fishy
2009-10-03, 01:14 AM
This might be tolerable if you can treat the rogues as, collectively, your bag of holding. You're a wizard, you're not carrying your stuff on your person anyway, right?

Next time your party is about to be eaten by owlbears, close your eyes, hold out your hand, sigh melodramatically, and say "Wand of Web." Don't even bother looking in your pockets for it. If the person who stole your wand of web last doesn't put it into your hand, he gets eaten by an owlbear.

oxinabox
2009-10-03, 01:49 AM
If not have a bag of holding. Hold said bag of holding at all times. You can't slight of hand an attended object.


And if your dm's aware of that rule.
I was Robbed last week,.
I was in the nine hells and tookout a large bag of jewels (the 50 gp requiremnt to look like a courteer)
One of the players was a pixie always greater invisable. I has see invisability on (i think the dm knew, it's one of my all day buffs).
I roll spot, 17. + dm gave me some circumstance bonus for it being in my hand.
I look down again, and the bags gone.
I see a boy running of with it.
i grab at him, my hands pass right through him.
I grab at the bag, and can't gret a grip on it.
He runs through a wall and the bag drops on the ground.
I open it, half my jewels are gone.
and Inside is the pixie PC.
Me: "I turn him upside down and shake til my jewels come out"
DM: "You turn him upside down as shake virgeously, and give him a general detailed search. no gems come out"
Me: "damn..."
However i still had 200 fake gems, i did of course go to the nearest shop, and buy a Nobles outfit+ 175 gp of gems, more than replace my loss.
and a top hat, definatly would have got a top hat. (note to self, add these to character sheet).

Still don't know what that whole senario was about, have to ask OOCthe player and the dm.

Innis Cabal
2009-10-03, 01:57 AM
Get a Wizardly Wizard. Or a Fighting Fighter.

daggaz
2009-10-03, 04:17 AM
Gah.. just save or suck them in their sleep. Then kill them in their sleep. Its totally IC for a good character to wipe out a band of thieves, especially if said band is an obstacle on the mission to save the world blah blah blah.. If they then roll new character who for some reason goes directly after your character, not just minor theft but assault or attempted murder, then that is metagaming at it's worst.

Personally, I woulda laughed if the DM told me that talking about the game OOC is metagaming.. he's got his definitions inside-out. Doesnt sound like a fun group at any rate, hence why I say to kill them all IC and see where the boundaries really lie.

Sliver
2009-10-03, 04:20 AM
I had such a player last game.. I didn't let it fly tho..
She tried to pick the druid's pocket, while he was in wild shape... I asked for his char sheet and told her she managed to steal his tent, from his pocket, while he was a rino, charging past her, no one noticed.
The second time she tried it, it was against a Frenzied Berzerker that was busy chopping said druid after failing the will save to calm down (the FavSoul had calm emo so he used it next turn).. There I just said no..

Melamoto
2009-10-03, 04:32 AM
The trick to playing a Rogue Rogue is to always have a reason not to steal much from the party. Usually, you won't steal from your own party, just from everyone else, which can be counted against WBL. If the others don't want you to, then don't design your character to steal from them.

olentu
2009-10-03, 04:36 AM
And if your dm's aware of that rule.
I was Robbed last week,.
I was in the nine hells and tookout a large bag of jewels (the 50 gp requiremnt to look like a courteer)
One of the players was a pixie always greater invisable. I has see invisability on (i think the dm knew, it's one of my all day buffs).
I roll spot, 17. + dm gave me some circumstance bonus for it being in my hand.
I look down again, and the bags gone.
I see a boy running of with it.
i grab at him, my hands pass right through him.
I grab at the bag, and can't gret a grip on it.
He runs through a wall and the bag drops on the ground.
I open it, half my jewels are gone.
and Inside is the pixie PC.
Me: "I turn him upside down and shake til my jewels come out"
DM: "You turn him upside down as shake virgeously, and give him a general detailed search. no gems come out"
Me: "damn..."
However i still had 200 fake gems, i did of course go to the nearest shop, and buy a Nobles outfit+ 175 gp of gems, more than replace my loss.
and a top hat, definatly would have got a top hat. (note to self, add these to character sheet).

Still don't know what that whole senario was about, have to ask OOCthe player and the dm.

Did you remember to check inside the pixie.

oxinabox
2009-10-03, 05:09 AM
Did you remember to check inside the pixie.

Inside the pixie, of ofcourse!:smallredface:
Unfortunatly, i carry no wepons that can overcome my DR, let alone his.
Guess i'l gave to settle it the old fassioned way, use magic to splatterhim across the walls, scrape him up ino a bucket, and filter him through a sieve 'til i find my diamonds.

Vangor
2009-10-03, 05:26 AM
How do you go about fixing such a problem in character(since the player(s) will invariably justify it as what their char would do), and in such a way that doesn't destroy the party? Merely noting it and blasting them when their back is turned is easy enough, but is likely to result in more conflict.

If other players care, tell those players stealing to stop. Whatever the rationale given, being the instigator in aggravation in a game means the impetus is on the instigator to stop. I mean, if the game is meant to be conflict oriented, such as I have tried to do by including Game Theory based reward systems and similar, then no problem.

But, if as with the significant, sizable majority of games the party is meant to be generally cohesive, the people causing problems need to truly stop. Those players need to be able to work together regardless of circumstance, and if the circumstance arises of a rogue stealing from the party, one player either needs to create a new character or be out of the campaign, and neither is a fun option.

Quincunx
2009-10-03, 05:42 AM
Inside the pixie, of ofcourse!:smallredface:
Unfortunatly, i carry no wepons that can overcome my DR, let alone his.
Guess i'l gave to settle it the old fassioned way, use magic to splatterhim across the walls, scrape him up ino a bucket, and filter him through a sieve 'til i find my diamonds.

While 'panning the mortal remains' allows for style points, have you considered infecting him with some magical disease that'll empty out his GI tract for you?

oxinabox
2009-10-03, 05:56 AM
While 'panning the mortal remains' allows for style points, have you considered infecting him with some magical disease that'll empty out his GI tract for you?

No that's just creul and nasty. also messier.
murder is much more nice.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-03, 07:35 AM
... your DM also has every reason to prevent the player from taking any more levels in Monk. (Though don't mention this, as it will just make the character more powerful).

Oh, the player has been advised not to keep taking monk levels past six. I think he did anyway, but hey...I only give the advice. If they've got a plan for uberness that involves 20 consecutive levels of monk, who am I to stop them?

Problem worked itself out, mostly through fear. One of the DMs screwed up ever so slightly last night. To prevent blatant abuse of spellbook theft, he had all his casters keep their spellbooks in a secured room that takes both a low UMD check and a DC 30 spellcraft check to enter(or DC 30 UMD). Why these rogues don't bother to train UMD is beyond me, but I've got ridiculous skills, and blew through there without a problem. I went off the principle that they were bound to be trapped, so tipped an entire shelf of them into a bag without touching them. While rolling for the contents of them, he got frustrated, and declared that they had all 1-4 wizard spells on them.

Damn. They now have no idea what I have prepared at any given time, and react with all due paranoia and respect, even when I'm comatose.

All non-trivial items(ie, not ammo and such) have my arcane marks on them, and I'm happily using explosive runes with great abandon. After all, Im immune, and their characters have no idea that the text of the spell would allow me to exclude them from it.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-03, 07:40 AM
I should probably also mention that the party almost got wiped by the two rogues fighting over a wand of CLW(in combat, they're grappling with each other) that I loaned them to patch themselves up. They then both managed to fall victim to Snake Sigil's, and I(everyone else being absent this week) rolled a natural 1 on a suggestion. The baddie suggested that the chest I knew to be trapped needed to be open. Naturally, I used my handy scroll of dispel magic on the rogue, since I have the rogue open all chests.

I suspect their near brushes with death due to blatant greed probably helped their realization.

Glyde
2009-10-03, 09:45 AM
Go the Edwin route and fireball the party while they sleep.


Edit: Seriously though. If they aren't going to solve it with an OOC chat, then solve it with an IC one. With copious applications of magic aura, detect magic, suggestion, entice gift, finger of d-


Sorry, almost got carried away.

Myou
2009-10-03, 09:54 AM
Go the Edwin route and fireball the party while they sleep.


Edit: Seriously though. If they aren't going to solve it with an OOC chat, then solve it with an IC one. With copious applications of magic aura, detect magic, suggestion, entice gift, finger of d-


Sorry, almost got carried away.

No, you didn't go far enough. :smallsmile:

Jack_Simth
2009-10-03, 10:02 AM
Detect magic and Arcane Sight can both penetrate barriers. When you have an IC reason to suspect a magic item is missing, start scanning the party, and learn what auras are on whom, and check periodically. The next time someone's aura changes, well, you now know IC that somethings definitely amiss with expensive loot.

Also: Arcane Mark all your stuff, with invisible Arcane Marks. They glow under Detect Magic.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-03, 08:37 PM
IC worked for me(even when I was unconcious for four rounds, they didn't even mention looting my body), but I agree that as a general rule, talking about problems OOC first is probably best, since IC conflict is definitely risky to party cohesiveness.