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Clove
2009-10-02, 03:36 PM
I've never made a 4e character before, so I'll ask for some advice. I downloaded the character builder, but I don't have the PHB.

Campaign allows for the usual 22 build points, but humans get 27. So I'm making a human. This should allow for some funny ideas that you might not normally be able to pull off.

18 (16+2) Str
16 Con
16 Dex
8 Int
10 Wis
10 Cha

This is what I have. I thought about getting a 20 Strength, but it costs a lot. Is it worth dropping Dex to 12 to get a 20 Strength?

I debated taking a pole arm since they are two handed. What kind of wisdom score would I need for that to work? Someone else is playing a goliath warden with a 2 handed Mordenkrag, so I'm thinking I should take something else just so we aren't eyeing up the same weapons if we happen to find a good hammer.

Will a pole arm give me some decent defense by hitting enemies before they can close in?

I can afford the high dexterity score. Maybe I should use a big sword instead for the extra +1 to hit? Could a pole arm with heavy blade descriptor pull off something cool in the same way?

From what I can see now, charisma doesn't seem that important.

Which at-will power should I forgo? I think Pressing Strike is too good and versatile to not take. Howling strike seems a bit situational being only for charging, although it is good. (wouldn't a barbarian built for charging take a lot of attacks of opportunity?) Recuperating strike seems like a nice ability to have access to. Devastating strike seems like the least versatile one, but it does good damage and has the coolest name. "I attack with a Devastating Strike!"

I like having both Devastating and Recuperating because it could allow me to pour on more damage or play more defensively depending on how the enemies are directing their attacks.

Alteran
2009-10-02, 04:07 PM
Campaign allows for the usual 22 build points, but humans get 27.

:smalleek:

How did your DM come up with that? Humans are already one of the best races, this just puts them way over the top. Still, if he's going to allow it, then you may as well take advantage of it. You know, to show him why it's not a good idea. :smallamused:



18 (16+2) Str
16 Con
16 Dex
8 Int
10 Wis
10 Cha

This is what I have. I thought about getting a 20 Strength, but it costs a lot. Is it worth dropping Dex to 12 to get a 20 Strength?


I would think it's probably worth it, yes. If your DM allows you to drop another stat to 8 (you'd want to pick Cha, unless it goes against your character concept) then it's an even easier choice.



I debated taking a pole arm since they are two handed. What kind of wisdom score would I need for that to work? Someone else is playing a goliath warden with a 2 handed Mordenkrag, so I'm thinking I should take something else just so we aren't eyeing up the same weapons if we happen to find a good hammer.


You definitely want a two-handed weapon. Fullblade is generally considered to be the best (marginally above the Mordenkrad), but any superior weapon would be fine. If you're at low levels, you may not want to take a superior weapon prof feat right away. If you want to go with polearms, then a Greatspear is (I think) the only choice for a superior weapon. Still, it's a good one.

If you go with a polearm, you'd probably want to switch around your Dex and Wis scores.



Will a pole arm give me some decent defense by hitting enemies before they can close in?


Not really. It's only one square of reach, very rarely will you be in a position where you can hit them and they can't hit you (in an open area, at least). However, if you have a fighter friend stand between you and an enemy, you could prevent it from going up to you without eating an opportunity attack.



I can afford the high dexterity score. Maybe I should use a big sword instead for the extra +1 to hit? Could a pole arm with heavy blade descriptor pull off something cool in the same way?


High Dex does help with heavy blade feats, and your high Con is useful if you go the hammer route. I'm going to recommend a fullblade again (because I love them), but glaives are an option if you want a polearm/heavy blade.



From what I can see now, charisma doesn't seem that important.


It isn't, unless you're a Thaneborn Barbarian.



Which at-will power should I forgo? I think Pressing Strike is too good and versatile to not take. Howling strike seems a bit situational being only for charging, although it is good. (wouldn't a barbarian built for charging take a lot of attacks of opportunity?) Recuperating strike seems like a nice ability to have access to. Devastating strike seems like the least versatile one, but it does good damage and has the coolest name. "I attack with a Devastating Strike!"

I like having both Devastating and Recuperating because it could allow me to pour on more damage or play more defensively depending on how the enemies are directing their attacks.

Howling Strike can be used on a charge, unlike most class powers. It doesn't need to be. I would definitely take it, Barbarians tend to charge a lot. You only take AoOs if you provoke them on purpose, and it's usually a better idea to not charge when you find yourself next to an enemy. Devastating strike does have a cool name, but it's also seems to be the worst of the bunch. It does 1 extra damage (on average) per tier compared to Howling Strike, it can't be used on a charge, and it makes you easier to hit. It's sorta okay if you're raging, but I still don't think it's worth it over the other options you have.

If you want more advice, there's some basic stuff that we should know. What level are you? What other characters are in your party? Do you have a character concept in mind?

TheEmerged
2009-10-02, 04:09 PM
First: "Primal Power", with the second half of the Barbarian info, comes out later this month. So a lot of what we say today will change when it comes out.

On the subject of Charisma being worthless, that depends on your power selection. You appear to be going "Rageblood", so it's probably not the best choice. I've only been able to theory-run the barbarian class (none of the primal classes appealed to my players) but the "Thaneborn" build certain has its charms. There is also the issue of your defenses. With only a 10 for Wis & Cha, you're going to be getting a whopping +0 to your Will defense.

NeoVid
2009-10-02, 04:25 PM
Your stats look good. I'd say it's worth keeping the Dex bonus, or at least leaving it high enough to qualify for Heavy Blade feats without putting in more stat boosts.

Also, the good Dex means that you'll have a decent defense other than Fort, which is rare for Barbarians.

You'd need high Wis to get the most out of a reach weapon. Your good Dex will really help with the (Bloodclaw enchanted) Fullblade you should get. Heavy Blade Opportunity with Pressing Strike at Paragon means no worries about getting trapped, ever.

7th lvl scrub
2009-10-02, 04:28 PM
Everything you have seems to be in well working order, and you seem to have a good idea for your character. Like an earlier poster said the Fullblade is probably the best weapon for your character, and as for your point buy I have my own suggestion.

The one thing I can see that I would try to fix is your Will Defense is going to be terrible All you need to do is ask your DM whether or not you can have two ability scores at 8, if you can drop your charisma to 8 and raise your Wisdom to 12. If not drop your Dex to 15, which gives you enough points to raise your Wisdom to 12. If you are forced to drop your Dex to 15 it won't do anything to make your character any worse as your Reflex Defense will still get a benefit from Barbarian Agility, and the worst it will do is drop your Initiative by 1.

Clove
2009-10-02, 04:42 PM
If you want more advice, there's some basic stuff that we should know. What level are you? What other characters are in your party? Do you have a character concept in mind?

Well, I think we are at level 1 since people are creating characters.

So far:

Barbarian (Me)
Warden (Goliath with high Con)
Warlord (draconic with 18 STR and CHA)
Cleric (unknown details)
Thief (described as "Part-time")
Wizard OR Ranger-Archer (he hasn't decided which)
Maybe one more player? Unsure. Maybe not.


I think our DM wants to see people play humans, so he gives them more points. Actually, I think he would be pleased to see the human be super-awesome and make the other races seem only "ok".

I don't really have a character concept outside of "awesome guy with big weapon who knocks everybody down".

tcrudisi
2009-10-02, 04:42 PM
I would do the following:

Pressing Strike (that shift 2, even through enemies, is amazing. Plus it matches Howling Strike when you are raging)
Howling Strike (the ability to use this high-damage at-will when charging is pure gold. It's also great damage. Plus, you will charge at least once an encounter.)
Recuperating Strike (those temp hp might be what saves your life. Barbarians are unique in that they have one type of defense: hit points. Everything else is sub-par. They will get hit. Accept it and move on.)

I would use the Fullblade. The +3 to hit and d12 damage with High Crit just add up to one wonderful weapon.

I would also do the 18/16/12/10/10/8 build, with the Str becoming 20 and Con getting the 16. Dexterity is a good choice, but I would also consider Wisdom due to your skills (Perception, Nature, Heal).

The first two feats I would take would be Weapon Proficiency (Fullblade) and Weapon Expertise (heavy blade). If Weapon Expertise is given to you (as some DMs do), then Weapon Focus would be next on my list. Toughness and Action Surge are also high up on the list. Human Perserverance and Stubborn Survivor are also good choices. Powerful Charge is a good pick-up, but I guess it depends on how much you find yourself charging. Deadly Rage is also worth mentioning.

For the level 1 encounter, Avalanche Strike is the way to go. Sure it imposes a -4 penalty, but they'll have a hard time taking advantage of it when they are dead. For the daily, I like Swift Panther Rage. It really turns you into a lean, mean, charging machine and gives you a huge mobility boost.

Kurald Galain
2009-10-02, 06:41 PM
Humans getting 27 points is silly, but won't have a noticeable impact on game balance, and still doesn't make humans the best race for anything, really (note that on higher levels you'll 1. have more feats, and 2. won't use at-wills as much, making the human bonuses mostly irrelevant). 27 points does make 20 strength definitely worth it - 4E rewards focus much more than versatility.

Try investing in two scores only, because you get to raise two scores anyway at levels 4 and 8. Besides, for the majority builds the other four scores won't make a noticeable impact on your abilities anyway. Charisma isn't important for non-thaneborn barbarians.

Reach is useful, personally I consider it more useful than a +1 to hit, but that is a matter of taste. And yes, heavy blade opportunity is a very nice feat.

Barbarians do not take a lot of opportunity attacks assuming the DM is a halfway-skilled tactician, so I wouldn't invest much in that. Also, you're a squishy: for many monsters, good strategy is to kill you, not to run away from you. Invest in temp-HP stuff to avoid being a squishy.

Yakk
2009-10-02, 07:08 PM
Wardens use polearms more often than Barbarians do (reach really works well with their class features).

Barbarians are usually about charging and big damage. Exe Axe or Fullblade are both good (or the non-superior version) if you don't want a hammer.

To attack opponents before they reach you with a polearm, you need to ready an action, or get something like the level 11+ "polearm gambit" (requires 15 wisdom) feat.

...

The pre-release info for Primal Power indicates that there is a two-weapon Barbarian variant in Primal Power that might be Str / Dex based.

Grynning
2009-10-02, 09:22 PM
All advice so far is good, just wanted to post this link (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19648686/Destruction_Manifest_The_Barbarians_Handbook). It was very useful when I was helping my brother build his barbarian.

tcrudisi
2009-10-02, 09:59 PM
All advice so far is good, just wanted to post this link (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19648686/Destruction_Manifest_The_Barbarians_Handbook). It was very useful when I was helping my brother build his barbarian.

Well, there went all my secrets. :-P I've used that link when making a few Barbarians, and yeah, I referenced it to double-check everything that I said here, as well.

Athan Allgood
2009-10-03, 07:32 AM
Speaking from what experience I have (7th level Warforged Barbarian), I would offer the following opinions:

1) Howling Strike is my bread and butter. The extra d6 from the charge, on top of the +1 to strike, will lead you to charge at every possible point. With a little bit of item optimization (and a DM who takes desired weapons into account) your charging becomes a way of life.

If the above sounds good then I especially suggest you look into a Badge of the Berserker for your Neck slot (no op attack due to charge movement). I have, at times, ended up bouncing around the battlefield like a pinball.

2) Pushing Strike is a good utility follow up power, but situational. There will be times when you want to break through an enemy line to reach the squishy casters, this helps. Its no Howling Strike though.

3) Choose your role. Not just striker, but what you intend to do on the battlefield. Personally, I play my barbarian (Clockwork) with the intention of taking out all the foolish guys who stay or stray away from the main group. It means I end up going one on one without a lot of group support a lot of the time.

For me, as such, it makes a lot more sense to take the high damage output powers then the 'effect' ones. I'd much rather have the extra d of damage then knock my opponent prone for a round. If you are intending to stand shoulder to shoulder with another melee type, this may be opposite from your case.

4) For heroic tier play consider the following feats:
- Exotic Weapon Proficiency: BFW (Big Frakking Weapon). There's a few choices, all of which are equally good at heroic, pretty much (weapon category feats dont kick in until PAragon, I believe, which I havn't had to deal with). My suggestion is just figure what image you like better when picturing your character in your head (crushing, cleaving, slicing or poking), then go with that one.

- Weapon Expertise: BFW. You are capable of a rather ridiculous amount of single target damage, but only if you hit. This feat gives a +1 strike bonus that helps with that. (Same reason went with Fullblade and Warforged Tactics, every single + to Strike helps).

- Powerful charge and Defensive Mobility are good options for a charging based Barbarian, if thats your focus. Personally, I relied on powers (Swift Charge) and items to help avoid op attacks, so skipped on FDefensive Mobility. As a human you might want to look into it, though, given your extra feat.

5) This is a general roleplay suggestion, and one that you probably don't need if you've been gaming for long: figure out a way for your character to be remembered two years from now, both by yourself and your play group. Not by class/race, but by name.

For me, I've attempted to do this by adding a quirk where, whenever Clockwork becomes bloodied he loses his memory (outside of preprogrammed alignment, ability and persona info). I also name every magic weapon I have (+2 Reckless Fullblade = "Hasterazor")

Find your own thing and remember that if the character isn't interesting to play, there's no reason to be playing at all.

Finally, your DM is nuts for allowing a 27 point buy for only humans (unless he has taken away the +2 to any stat, then it sort of evens out I suppose.) If you EVER intend to DM yourself I suggest you talk to him about it now in order to avoid future all human parties.

If you don't, or don't care about race diversity, then never mind, take advantage of it.

Have fun.

Bagelz
2009-10-03, 09:33 AM
First: "Primal Power", with the second half of the Barbarian info, comes out later this month. So a lot of what we say today will change when it comes out.
.

^this
also how long do you expect the campaign to last? There are some useful feats later on that require 13 dex, especially if you take the fighter multiclass feat (though you could use your lvl4 or lvl 8 stat boosts to boost it). If you don't expect to get to paragon teir you are probably better off maxing out str.

Clove
2009-10-04, 09:52 AM
I don't really know how long the campaign will last. But if the campaign doesn't last too long, I wonder if running the 18, 16, 16, for the first 3 stats would be great. If the campaign doesn't last long, then that high dex will be quite effective in providing defense. I can see in a longer campaign with only being able to boost 2 stats how Dex would remain at 16 and seem less powerful over time.

What do you guys think of taking BOTH Athletics AND Acrobatics? There is some overlap in both allow a character to escape a grapple, but would one sometimes be better for escaping a grapple than the other depending on the enemy? Athletics vs. STR and Acrobatics vs. DEX? Or is the system simplified to the point that only the higher bonus matters? Athletics vs. STR and Acrobatics vs. STR? This would be a good time for a synergy bonus, except I don't think they have that mechanic in 4e.

I like how when Dex is added, I can see AC go up, Reflex go up, and Init go up. Seems like a bargain for the points. I would also like a 20 STR, but the difference between 12 and 16 DEX seems big. Maybe I'll go for a well-rounded warrior who can pull off acrobatic stunts when he needs to. Kind of like the slap-stick entertaining fighting you see in the old "Hercules" and "Xena" tv shows. Except much bloodier with a large, deadly weapon.



- Exotic Weapon Proficiency: BFW (Big Frakking Weapon). There's a few choices, all of which are equally good at heroic, pretty much (weapon category feats dont kick in until PAragon, I believe, which I havn't had to deal with). My suggestion is just figure what image you like better when picturing your character in your head (crushing, cleaving, slicing or poking), then go with that one.



I have to admit being a bugbear is tempting, just to use a really big weapon. I suppose if there was a feat to get an oversized weapon as a human, someone would have mentioned it by now.

Maybe the new Primal Power book will have a barbarian-only feat to do it, since it is kind of the Barbarian's defining feature to use one really big weapon.

Tiki Snakes
2009-10-04, 11:03 AM
Players are not intended to use large sized weapons, really, in general. You can bet your britches if there's ever a player version of the Bugbear he'll lose the oversized weapon in exchange for more flavourful racial stuff, like the minotaur and his goring charge feats, and so on.

That said, if your DM is happy with the idea of the sickening damage such a barbarian would be churning out, have fun. :)


(For everything else, you've basically got fullblade, mordenkrad and Executioners axe as the 'oversized weapon' options, if you think about it. Being as they are respectively, an even bigger Greatsword, Maul and Greataxe)

tcrudisi
2009-10-04, 02:24 PM
I don't really know how long the campaign will last. But if the campaign doesn't last too long, I wonder if running the 18, 16, 16, for the first 3 stats would be great. If the campaign doesn't last long, then that high dex will be quite effective in providing defense. I can see in a longer campaign with only being able to boost 2 stats how Dex would remain at 16 and seem less powerful over time.

Actually, it's generally accepted that if the game does last a long time, then Dexterity becomes more important. At level 21, Heavy Blade Mastery opens up which allows you to crit with heavy blades with a roll of 19 or 20. This requires Dex 17, so you would need to start with a 15 to become available. At level 11, Heavy Blade Opportunity becomes available, which allows you to use an at-will power when you get to make an opportunity attack with a heavy blade, but it requires Dex 15. This means you would need to start with a Dex of 14 to have the points available.

If you don't expect to make it to at least level 21 (in my opinion), I would make Dex a 10. More for why when I reply to your 3rd paragraph.


What do you guys think of taking BOTH Athletics AND Acrobatics? There is some overlap in both allow a character to escape a grapple, but would one sometimes be better for escaping a grapple than the other depending on the enemy? Athletics vs. STR and Acrobatics vs. DEX? Or is the system simplified to the point that only the higher bonus matters? Athletics vs. STR and Acrobatics vs. STR? This would be a good time for a synergy bonus, except I don't think they have that mechanic in 4e.

I absolutely love taking both Athletics and Acrobatics. The DMG has rules for using those skills in combat. If you've got a DM who describes the area you are fighting in very well and you have a great imagination, these skills are awesome. If both of those are not true, they lose a lot of their luster for me. But seriously... a barbarian swinging from a chandelier to kick a kobold off the balcony? HECK YES. However, if it's a short game, I would lower my Dex to 10, making Acrobatics kinda crappy. You don't need both to escape grapples. You'll likely always use your highest anyway, which is Athletics (since it's based on Str). Yes, technically one would always be better depending on the enemy. But unless your Acrobatics is within 1, or maybe 2, points of Athletics, it will never make a difference. And even then you have to know which defense is smaller and by how much. "Okay, my Acrobatics is 2 points smaller than my Athletics, but it's Reflex is only 1 point smaller than it's Fort. Guess I go with Athletics again." It'll feel like it never gets used even if you bump your Dex up to 16.

Oh, because I don't think you know the system: to escape a grab you can either use your Athletics vs. their Fort or your Acrobatics vs. their Reflex. Since it's unlikely your DM will ever tell you what the monsters defenses are, it means you'll just always end up choosing your highest skill for trying to break a grab.


I like how when Dex is added, I can see AC go up, Reflex go up, and Init go up. Seems like a bargain for the points. I would also like a 20 STR, but the difference between 12 and 16 DEX seems big. Maybe I'll go for a well-rounded warrior who can pull off acrobatic stunts when he needs to. Kind of like the slap-stick entertaining fighting you see in the old "Hercules" and "Xena" tv shows. Except much bloodier with a large, deadly weapon.

The difference between 12 and 16 Dex is big. So is the difference between hitting for 3d12+6 and not. Sure it's only a 5% chance... but as a striker your role is to kill stuff. Especially as a Rageblood Vigor, where you'll be getting temp hp to keep you alive. That's the mechanic of the RV Barbarian -- kill stuff, get temp hp, get hit and lose the temp hp, kill stuff to get temp hp, get hit and lose the temp hp, etc.

I've played a Barbarian and designed a couple for people who play in other games with me. I'll say this: the Dexterity of 16 will help you from getting hit a few times. But it won't matter. It's funny to get hit and then say, "meh, doesn't matter. I have enough hp to take that a few times." Then when you finally do get low on hp, your Leader heals you anyway. The Dexterity of 16 is unnecessary, unless you want to use Athletics and Acrobatics in combat. If you want to do that, may I suggest a Brutal Scoundrel Rogue? They are the best at it, imo.

Clove
2009-10-06, 10:19 AM
Ok, I'll take the 20 Strength. I kind of wanted the 20 strength to begin with, but I didn't want to make a character who might seem flawed in the eyes of my fellow players. It is sounding like the barbarian who doesn't maximize strength is the character who would be viewed as sub-par.

It also allows my character to one-up the goliath warden and draconic warlord in terms of brute strength with my human barbarian, ha.

At first level I think I need to take toughness, since HP is 31 without it. Toughness is the difference between a healing surge of 7 (31/4) or 9 (36/4). If I'm going to get hit, I can at least let the healer feel good about restoring a large number of HPs.

I haven't decided on the second feat. Probably fullblade for the extra +hit of heavy blades along with big damage. At second level I can even swap out toughness for weapon expertise if I want to maximize my +hit.

If the campaign goes into high levels, I can switch over to axes or hammers depending on what feats look good. If any. There are plenty of feats to choose from.

Clove
2009-10-06, 10:58 AM
What do you guys think of taking Armor Proficiency feats? One of my early ideas was to spend both starting proficiencies on armor and have a poor Dexterity. This way my character could start with Scale Armor and have a 17 AC, but will the -1 movement be a noticeable hindrance?

Since I wouldn't have the feat for an over-sized weapon I could use a halberd, and the extra reach would allow me to have a similar amount of ability in reaching enemies.

TelemontTanthul
2009-10-06, 11:01 AM
In my experience, the build of your character is just as important as HOW you use your character.

Being creative, witty, and inventive is important.

Just look at Jarlaxle, a drow fighter type of character in the FR series. He has a ton of magical items, most of which are simple, but he utilizes them in different situations quite effectively.

Mando Knight
2009-10-06, 12:03 PM
What do you guys think of taking Armor Proficiency feats? One of my early ideas was to spend both starting proficiencies on armor and have a poor Dexterity. This way my character could start with Scale Armor and have a 17 AC, but will the -1 movement be a noticeable hindrance?

Note that not wearing heavy armor as a Barbarian gives you a bonus to AC and Reflex. Scale is rather feat-intensive for a Barbarian (it's 2 feats, not 1, since chainmail proficiency is a prerequisite), and offers only a +1 AC bonus. If you start with 14 Dexterity, even at level 30 it'll only be a +2 AC bonus if you go with Scale over Hide, but you lose 3 Reflex at level 30. If you need to boost your AC, you could use a shield, or wait for Primal Power to give you the two-weapon style option. You could also use a Double weapon...

Clove
2009-10-07, 11:41 PM
What do you guys think of

20
12
16
8
10
10

where the secondary focus (after strength of course) is on Dexterity? It is listed as a possibility in the Destruction Manifest: The Barbarian's Handbook that people here have referenced.

It has a certain appeal, since Con supports the same Fortitude defense that strength does, so you are getting more defenses for your points. Also, no points are taken from Strength, only Con, so Strength stays maxed. FullBlade and Great Spear feats use Dexterity later. Armor Class should be high with a focus on dexterity along with Barbarian Agility.

Less Con means less Temp HPs, but it seems like the Temp HP generating powers involve a trade-off in settling for less damage anyways in many cases. Not bothering to optimize THP generating powers could mean it makes more sense to focus completely on offense.

tcrudisi
2009-10-08, 02:06 AM
What do you guys think of

20
12
16
8
10
10

where the secondary focus (after strength of course) is on Dexterity?

...since Con supports the same Fortitude defense that strength does, so you are getting more defenses for your points... FullBlade and Great Spear feats use Dexterity later. Armor Class should be high with a focus on dexterity along with Barbarian Agility.

Less Con means less Temp HPs, but it seems like the Temp HP generating powers involve a trade-off in settling for less damage anyways in many cases. Not bothering to optimize THP generating powers could mean it makes more sense to focus completely on offense.

It really depends on what level you think this character will make it to. Let's use a couple of examples:

You only play in heroic tier (levels 1-10). What does this get you? A better AC, Ref, and Init, a little bit less damage (as some powers add Con mod to damage), a lot less temp hp (since every time you kill a mob you get temp hp = Con mod), a few less healing surges, fewer hp, smaller healing surge value. Really, the defenses sort of wash out. Your defenses are lower, but you won't get any temp hp for killing monsters and your overall health, healing surges, and healing surge value are lower. Actually, I'd argue that the Con defenses are better than the Dex. Plus, you'll do a little bit less damage.

Now, you hit paragon tier (levels 11-20). What does this get you? Ironically, not quite as much AC as you think, since you miss out on Armor Specialization (Hide) which gives +1 AC and -1 skill check penalty as a feat. Heavy Blade Opportunity is the Fullblade feat at this level ... and it's kinda crap if your DM is any good at strategy. It has to be dire straights to allow a Barbarian to make an opportunity attack. And if he does let you make an opportunity attack, then what? +1d6 damage. Really, that's just not worth a feat investment, imo. (Take note, I'm ignoring the Great Spear. If you want to go that route, that's cool. It does require a different built. I'm assuming Fullblade, which most of us have said is the optimal weapon under most circumstances.)

Now, you hit epic tier (levels 21-30). What does this get you? Heavy Blade Mastery for a crit on 19 or 20. I won't deny how good this feat is. It's ridiculously good. Or, if you went the Con route, you can switch your weapon (and weapon expertise/weapon proficiency feats) over to an Executioners Axe (which is almost as good as a Fullblade) and pick up Axe Mastery to crit with axes on a 19 or 20.

The one thing I think you should note is that Rageblood Vigor gives you temp hp whenever you kill an enemy. You don't have to pick powers based on attempting to gain temp hp.

If you want to use a Great Spear, definitely go with Dex. Otherwise, how long is this game going to last? If you don't see this game lasting until level 21, in my eyes Con is much better. This might change if you don't have a healer at all -- but that depends on the DM. With some DM's I'd argue that Con is still better; with others Dex would become better. Really, though, if I thought the game was going to last from levels 1 to 30, I'd go with Dex and retrain from Fullblade to Executioners Axe at level 21.

But it's not me making the character. I'm only giving advise based on my personal experience -- and I do want to say that I've never made it past level 9 (we level slowly, got up to level 9 and then restarted characters. Now my newest character is one combat from level 9, so I'm expecting us to restart characters again soon. heh And my other games have stopped short of paragon tier as well, for one reason or another). So I have a lot of experience in heroic tier, but none in paragon or epic. Whatever you choose should be based on your own play style. If you think Dex is better - then go for it. The Barbarian is a fun class no matter what you do with it. :)

Yakk
2009-10-08, 09:45 AM
Heavy Blade Opportunity is the Fullblade feat at this level ... and it's kinda crap if your DM is any good at strategy. It has to be dire straights to allow a Barbarian to make an opportunity attack.If the DM never gives a barbarian an OA, then you are a de-facto defender. :)

If you have a bard, you can pick up the feat that lets you take OAs when slid.

Note that a Str/Dex barbarian build is going to be supported in the Primal Power book -- it is the two-weapon barbarian.

Going Str/Dex means that two defences go up, while Str/Con means that only Fortitude stays high.

...

I actually like the flexibility of having higher off-stats at the cost of having a 'mere' 18 in my primary attack stat.

tcrudisi
2009-10-10, 09:29 PM
They just released the Primal Power preview for feats. One thing worth mentioning: there is a feat which will allow you to use your Con modifier instead of Dex or Int when using Hide Armor. This will make Rageblood Barbarians ridiculously good, considering they will now have a great AC and get a lot of temporary hit points whenever they kill something.

TelemontTanthul
2009-10-11, 01:12 AM
I've discovered a simple 3 step process to all barbarians, and how you can run them.

1. Break down door, is there anything to break or steal?
a. No? Go directly to step 3

2. Yes? Then I break or steal.

3. Repeat process.

Clove
2009-10-11, 08:14 PM
They just released the Primal Power preview for feats. One thing worth mentioning: there is a feat which will allow you to use your Con modifier instead of Dex or Int when using Hide Armor. This will make Rageblood Barbarians ridiculously good, considering they will now have a great AC and get a lot of temporary hit points whenever they kill something.

That Con -> AC feat really seems to seal the deal, doesn't it.

20
16
10
8
12
10

I think that will have to do it for me. My DM mentioned my low will means I will be suceptible to domination, so I figure it doesn't hurt to bump Wisdom up to a 12. I also took the [Forest] background to get a +2 to perception rolls, so I should be a very alert barbarian who can smell the bad guys coming.

Might as well take the executioner's axe right away. My DM also mentioned that as a human it doesn't make sense for my character to be a barbarian in his world unless he was raised by vikings or had some other strange circumstances. I said I wanted to be raised by wild animals. He thought that was a stretch, and said my options were to be raised by Cyclops or Treants. I choose treant, which gives a humorous anecdote for choosing a giant axe at the advice of my adoptive elders because of it being the scariest weapon.

Clove
2009-10-22, 03:55 PM
Executioner's Axe = Awesome

Played in one session so far.

I used a 3d12 power, avalanche strike. Rolled a 1, 2, 7. Rerolled and got 11, 2. Rerolled the 2 to get a 12. With +3 from Con I dealt 38 damage. I one-shotted a fresh guy in the last fight with this hit (used action point), after dispatching the enemy spellcaster who was hit once by the warden who pushed the spellcaster to be adjacent to me.

Also rerolled a 1 and got a 12 in an earlier fight. Pretty nice.

I know the brutal averages out to one a +1 damage for every [W], but man does the executioner's axe demand respect when you reroll those pesky 1's and 2's to dish out deadly executioner-level damage.

I only played once so far, but already I'm loving the Brutal power for a weapon. I know the fullblade has 1 more to hit, but the axe is just stupefyingly devastating.

My friend only has one human figure with a 2 handed axe. It is a guy with the standard executioner's mask/hood, executioner's axe, and black outfit, with his upper torso conspicuously un-armored. I find it funny.