Counterspelling master: build ideas pl0x

[sambo.]

i'm wondering how i'd go about building a wizard who's particularly good at screwing over other spellcasters, mostly through the use of Dispell Magic and Greater Dispell Magic, as well as being a fairly handy general arcane spellcaster.

at a wild guess, i'd start with an Abjuration specialist and eventually take at least one level of Archmage for the Mastery Of Counterspelling thingy doober whatsit.

any suggestions for how to go about this? capping out Spellcraft and concentration skills look pretty obvious. suggested feats? which schools do i take as prohibited schools?

please keep splatbook recommendations to a minimum, mostly we're just using straight SRD rules.

if it helps, i generally play elves (but i'm flexible).

i really don't have a lot of experience with 3.5. (i'm recently returned to ADnD, 95% of my previous experience was 1st ed with a splash of 2ed (and i rekon 3.5 is WAAAY better than either of the previous versions from what i've seen so far))

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

I just have to ask:
1: Is your name supposed to be racist? and
2: What is the last word in the thread title?

[arguskos]

1. "sambo" is also a type of martial arts, so it's highly possible it isn't meant to be racist.

2. "pl0x" typically is used as a "please help me with this, thank you" piece of internet speak.

[sambo.]

1: no. it's the nickname i was given on my very first day of school, some 29 years ago and remains the name by which i am best known amongst all my friends and is also the net'handle i use on many, many, many forums (and yes, i have had to go through this before).

i am an Australian and the term is not considered racist in Oz. it's funny you ask, i have introduced myself to many an American as "sambo", almost universally white Americans will instantly accuse me of being racist while, equally universally, black Americans have laughed their heads off, usually with some comment along the lines of "check out this white honky call himself sambo" and simply don't have a problem with it.

kindly get over it.

2: pl0x = Please.


edit: yes, sambo is an, iirc, Russian martial art.

is anyone going to help me with mah build?

[Eldariel]

This may be of use to you. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871214/Dispelling_38_Counterspelling_Compilation)

I would go:
Cloistered Cleric 1/Wizard (Abjurer) 2-3 (depending on whether you go for early entry)/Master Specialist Abjurer 10/Archmage 5/whatever 1-2

Then I'd pick up the following:
- Inquisition-domain [Cleric]: boosts Dispel-checks
- Competition-domain for example [Cleric]: many of 'em give +1 to Dispelling
- Divine Defiance [Fiendish Codex II]: requires CL 3 for divine spells so you need to be a Krau-sigil Illumian or burn a feat on Practiced Spellcaster: Cleric, but it enables IMMEDIATE ACTION COUNTERSPELLS!]
- Elven Spell Lore [PHBII]: Some Dispel-bonuses
- Arcane Mastery [CA]: Take 10 on Dispel-checks; that means you never fail them!
- Chain Spell [CA]: For absolutely wrecking Dispel chains!

You also end up an amazing dispeller and counterspeller. You're also still a Wizard and have the wonderful ability to toss Anti-Magic Fields on people by combining Arcane Reach and the level 10 Master Specialist-ability.


Alternatively, you could add Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil since you already qualify and it's a kickass defensive PrC that just so happens to also get an insane Dispel capstone that allows you to truly wreck buffed-up people.

You'd miss out on Archmage or Master Specialist-goodies that way though so it's a tradeoff either way.

[Korivan]

Anyways back to the posts at hand. Sorcerer-Archmage is a good choice. You can just sack all your 3rd, 6th, and 7th level spell slots for countering (dispel, greater dispel, Archmage ability). Thers some feats but I can't remember where they are. If you use Sorcerer, go with the UA varient, It'll put you on par with wizard bonus feats.

[Assassin89]

One feat to take would be magical aptitude, as it gives a +2 to spellcraft. You should also put ranks into knowledge(arcana), as it gives synergy to spellcraft.

I would suggest that you prohibit either evocation, illusion, or necromancy.

[sambo.]

i can possibly get the DM to allow PHBII and maybe Complete Arcane. others will most likely be verboeten.

any suggestions using Core, PHBII and Complete Arcane?

[Eldariel]

Divine Defiance is the cornerstone of any decent non-epic countermagic specialist; if you cannot get it allowed, countermagic is unlike to be the best focus for you.

You can use Duelward for some counters along with Ring of Spell-Battle [Magic Item Compendium], but you won't get reliable immediate action counters otherwise, which makes it not-worth-it.

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

1: no. it's the nickname i was given on my very first day of school, some 29 years ago and remains the name by which i am best known amongst all my friends and is also the net'handle i use on many, many, many forums (and yes, i have had to go through this before).

i am an Australian and the term is not considered racist in Oz. it's funny you ask, i have introduced myself to many an American as "sambo", almost universally white Americans will instantly accuse me of being racist while, equally universally, black Americans have laughed their heads off, usually with some comment along the lines of "check out this white honky call himself sambo" and simply don't have a problem with it.

kindly get over it.

2: pl0x = Please.


edit: yes, sambo is an, iirc, Russian martial art.

is anyone going to help me with mah build?
Have no problem with your name, just making sure you knew what you had written there.

[sambo.]

I would go:
Cloistered Cleric 1/Wizard (Abjurer) 2-3 (depending on whether you go for early entry)/Master Specialist Abjurer 10/Archmage 5/whatever 1-2

Then I'd pick up the following:
- Inquisition-domain [Cleric]: boosts Dispel-checks
- Competition-domain for example [Cleric]: many of 'em give +1 to Dispelling.

in which splatbooks do i find Cloistered Cleric, Master Specialist Abjurer, Inquisition and Competition Domain descriptions?

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

in which splatbooks do i find Cloistered Cleric, Master Specialist Abjurer, Inquisition and Competition Domain descriptions?

Cloistered Cleric should be in Unearthed Arcana.

For counter spelling, you might try the counterspell variant for clerics in Complete Arcane or Mage, can't remember which it is. You get counterspells instead of turn undead.

[sambo.]

hmm.

any basically Core build recomendations assuming i can get Divine Defience but NOT any of the other splatbooks stuffs?

[PhoenixRivers]

I don't know what you're looking for here.

There are no Class/PrC options within core for what you're looking for.

You're asking how much water we can find, but asking us to exclude all oceans, lakes, clouds, puddles, rivers, streams, brooks, ponds, and canals.

You're left with Improved Counterspell Feat, and Orange Ioun Stone. Take a fullcaster and knock yourself out.

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

hmm.

any basically Core build recomendations assuming i can get Divine Defience but NOT any of the other splatbooks stuffs?

Well..... Then you just want to keep your spell options open, of course you want disspell and greater disspell. Find ways to raise your caster level and what not.
A good idea for counterspelling mainly core is to use the sorcerer, that way if you get in a bad situation you can pretty much hold a mage down by dumping all your spells into dispelling.

[Eloel]

1- Go Dragonfire Adept.
2- Take Voracious Dispelling (and the latter dispelling invocation)
3- Take a level of cleric
4- Take Inquisiton Domain.
5- ???
6- Profit

[gdiddy]

Warlocks at level 6 gets Dispel Magic an unlimited number of times per day, *and* it does the countered spell's level as damage. With a little tweaking to get your caster level up (Spell Like Ability Focus: Voracious Dispelling, Ioun Stone, etc.), you could easily become the anti-caster. Just ready those actions and you'll take them down just by counterspelling them.

Everything else? UMD it.

Damn, ninja'd with the DF Adept.

[Eldariel]

in which splatbooks do i find Cloistered Cleric, Master Specialist Abjurer, Inquisition and Competition Domain descriptions?

Master Specialist is Complete Mage. Inquisition is Complete Divine and Competition...well, it's not necessary (it's in Spell Compendium) as it's only +1 - go with Undeath or something to fuel Divine Defiance instead. Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) is almost Core - it's in SRD.

If you can get Divine Defiance + Completes, the build is basically done.

[Fax Celestis]

Alternative build: Shadowcaster (Tome of Magic) 3/Sorcerer 1 (take Precocious Apprentice, Comp Arcane)/Noctumancer (Tome of Magic) 10/Mystic Theurge 6. You get double-nine spellcasting, boatloads of spells to counter with, access to the Black Magic mystery path (which lets you echo and warp spells cast) and lets you use your typical battlemagic perception (Heroes of Battle). You also get a per-day immediate action counterspell built into Noctumancer that lets you drain their spell energy to refresh your own slots.

[jiriku]

At high levels a full sorcerer/archmage with Improved Counterspell and the archmage counterspelling feature, plus a ring of spell-battle and an active duelward spell (SC) is pretty effective if you choose your spell slots carefully. You can auto-dispel anything if you have a higher-level spell of the same school prepared, and use greater dispel magic if you don't. After dispelling as an immediate action, you can use greater arcane fusion (CM) to recast your duelward while still contributing to the combat.

Be aware, however, that dispelling is typically an ineffective strategy unless you devote resources to doing it 1) reliably and 2) as an immediate action. Most of the resources that support that are in splatbooks.

[sambo.]

yah. between the advice offered here and in the Logic Ninja's Guide To Being Batman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002), it looks like a Sorcerer is the best base character to go with for this concept.

one level of Cleric, then into Sorcerer, take Archmage as soon as it's available.

assuming i can get the non-core Divine Defiance and Practised Spellcaster feats.

[PhoenixRivers]

Divine Defiance does have a limitation. It dispels, as per dispel magic. This puts a cap on the CL bonus you may receive. That cap is +10. So, as the campaign progresses into higher levels, the ability will get weaker and weaker.

If Magic Item Compendium is allowed, try a Dispelling Cord. It's crazy cheap, and gives you a +2 bonus to a dispel check, 5 times a day. Nothing major, but useful.

Once you get several CL up for this, there is a feat in one of the completes (Arcane, I think), that allows you to take 10 on CL checks. This adds reliability to the build.

[sambo.]

i don't see anything in the description of Divine Defiance that specifically precludes the use of Greater Dispel Magic instead of Dispel Magic.

it just states that you must have the relevant spell prepared (giving Hold Person as an example) OR Dispel Magic. i see no reason why i couldn't use Greater Dispel Magic as my counterspell instead.

meh, i'm going to need sooooo many DM rulings before i could even attempt this, we'll just add that to the list.
- - - -

edit: out of interest, can Sorcerer's use a higher level spell slot than the spell they are casting?

eg: could i use a lvl7 or lvl 8 spell slot to cast greater dispel magic instead of a lvl6 one if i'd burnt all my lvl6 slots for the day?

[PhoenixRivers]

i don't see anything in the description of Divine Defiance that specifically precludes the use of Greater Dispel Magic instead of Dispel Magic.It's the part below.


it just states that you must have the relevant spell prepared (giving Hold Person as an example) OR Dispel Magic. i see no reason why i couldn't use Greater Dispel Magic as my counterspell instead.Because it doesn't list that as an option. Dispel Magic is a 3rd level spell, with a cap of +10.
Greater Dispel Magic is a 6th level spell with a seperate entry, and a cap of +20. The text is permissive. It states what you may use. The only way, by the wording, that you may use Greater Dispel Magic, is if you're Countering a Greater Dispel magic. Now, it's reasonable to get a waiver on this by a DM. But the big reason that Divine Defiance isn't commonly used in dispel builds is that exact reason.


edit: out of interest, can Sorcerer's use a higher level spell slot than the spell they are casting?

eg: could i use a lvl7 or lvl 8 spell slot to cast greater dispel magic instead of a lvl6 one if i'd burnt all my lvl6 slots for the day?
Yes, you may.

However, if you're looking for the grand daddy of dispels below 9th level? Try Chain Dispel from PHb2.

If you have complete divine access, consider Divine Metamagic. Twinned or chained dispel magics can be rather effective.

Regardless, Mastery of Counterspelling (Archmage, SRD) is solid. Hit em with their own spell when you counter.

[sambo.]

Because it doesn't list that as an option.

meh. perhaps the DM will agree to letting me spend another feat to be able to use GDM?

idk. this is atually rather hypothetical at the moment as my current toon in that campaign is still kicking.

if it dies (or i join another game) i'll try this build idea.

it just strikes me as a Fun Idea(tm).

the Sorcerer with one level of Cleric would be a fairly solid primary arcane caster for the party (not to mention having self-healing on tap :smallcool:)

[PhoenixRivers]

Yeah, though minor self-heals.

Inquisition domain if you can. +2 on dispel checks is nice.

[Optimystik]

Alternative build: Shadowcaster (Tome of Magic) 3/Sorcerer 1 (take Precocious Apprentice, Comp Arcane)/Noctumancer (Tome of Magic) 10/Mystic Theurge 6. You get double-nine spellcasting, boatloads of spells to counter with, access to the Black Magic mystery path (which lets you echo and warp spells cast) and lets you use your typical battlemagic perception (Heroes of Battle). You also get a per-day immediate action counterspell built into Noctumancer that lets you drain their spell energy to refresh your own slots.

...Okay, that's just plain sexy right there.

[sambo.]

Alternative build: Shadowcaster (Tome of Magic) 3/Sorcerer 1 (take Precocious Apprentice, Comp Arcane)/Noctumancer (Tome of Magic) 10/Mystic Theurge 6. You get double-nine spellcasting, boatloads of spells to counter with, access to the Black Magic mystery path (which lets you echo and warp spells cast) and lets you use your typical battlemagic perception (Heroes of Battle). You also get a per-day immediate action counterspell built into Noctumancer that lets you drain their spell energy to refresh your own slots.

would you mind fleshing this out a little more for me please?

feats? ability scores i should shoot for etc?

[Fax Celestis]

would you mind fleshing this out a little more for me please?

feats? ability scores i should shoot for etc?

Cha > Int > Con = Dex = Wis > Str

Feats...uh, Path Focus (Black Magic) and the path that gives you the dispel magic mystery. If your DM allows Maximize to apply to dispel checks, Maximize Mystery. Shadow Familiar is cool too. Beyond that, anything listed in this thread still applies to this build.

[DragoonWraith]

What's the difference between Divine Defiance and Reactive Counterspell? Reactive Counterspell doesn't even require Divine casting or burning Turn uses, just a good feat (Improved Initiative) and a feat he probably wants anyway (Improved Counterspell), so it seems far and away superior, seeing as it effectively does the same thing as far as I can tell.

Anyway, Sambo, both Ernir and Exavian have pretty exhaustive access to books. I'd be pretty surprised if either of them refused a few simple feats.

The Shadowcaster route, though, might be trickier without actually having Tome of Magic. There's not a lot of official information on the 'net on them (I've looked).

Also, Fax's build relies on Precocious Apprentice... I'm not sure how Ernir or Exavian feel about that one, but a lot of people see that as greasy cheese. For a dual-caster like Noctumancer, it's pretty much required, really, but early entry is often frowned upon.

[lsfreak]

-snip-

From what I've read on the forums, many/most people allow early entry provided you actually do everything (Precocious Apprentice, Versatile Spellcaster, and Heighten Spell in this case) rather than just taking PA.

As for Divine Defiance versus Reactive Counterspell, the latter eats up your next turn's standard action, which defeats the whole purpose of counterspelling without needing to ready an action.

[DragoonWraith]

Oohhh.

Sambo, why don't you see if Exavian won't rule that Reactive Counterspell is an immediate action? I suspect he'd be amenable to that. Counterspelling is not really a high-powered option, and using them as Immediate Actions is still going to burn through spell slots like little else... That has the advantage of not needing the bizarre one-level dip of Cleric (while I generally support dipping as completely legitimate, a Cleric dip is a lot harder to explain than most), preserving your caster progression, avoiding the Practiced Spellcaster feat for Cleric, and not needing Turn attempts. It's strictly superior (obviously), but again, I don't think it's unreasonable and he might agree.

As for Precocious Apprentice, uhh... I guess I look at different games than you. Most of my DMs would laugh at you if you tried it and then just choose someone else for the game.

[sambo.]

Alternative build: Shadowcaster (Tome of Magic) 3/Sorcerer 1 (take Precocious Apprentice, Comp Arcane)/Noctumancer (Tome of Magic) 10/Mystic Theurge 6.

errr, unless i've not read Tome Of Magic thoughrally enough (yet), i'm kind of wondering how i can get levels of Mystic Theurge with this build...


isn't Mystic Theurge for divine/arcane multiclass (eg: cleric/wizards??)

or is there something in ToM that can allow MT levels between Shadow/Arcane classes..... so it's effectivly more levels of Noctumancer.

halp!1!

[lsfreak]

Page 117, prestige classes.

Shadowcasters can qualify for the
mystic theurge prestige class (DMG 192). In order to do so,
they are allowed to substitute the ability to cast 2nd-level
mysteries for the ability to cast 2nd-level spells. They must
meet all other requirements for the prestige class normally.

[sambo.]

BOOYAH!

just gotta find me a game to build one of these in.

looking at teh ability requirements etc, looks like i could be making another Drow....

[Mongoose87]

BOOYAH!

just gotta find me a game to build one of these in.

looking at teh ability requirements etc, looks like i could be making another Drow....

That's some hefty LA for a caster.

[sambo.]

yah, but it can be bought off.

it's the +2Int/+2Cha/+2Dex for -2Con that strikes me as being a pretty decent deal.

the spell resistance and SLA's are just gravy.

got any other race suggestions?

[DragoonWraith]

It's really hard to beat Human for any caster. The feat is worth more than, well, just about anything else in most situations. Even +2 to a casting stat. Strongheart Halflings, if allowed, are even better because they're Small and still get the bonus feat - making you harder to hit.

Int is the only really important stat here. After that, you'd like some Con and Dex - probably in that order, so -2 Con for +2 Dex isn't a great trade. Ideally, you'd have a +2 Int/+2 Con-or-Dex/-2 Wis/-2 Cha, probably. You could do Gray Elf for +2 Int/+2 Dex/-2 Con/-2 Str or Fire Elf for +2 Int/+2 Dex/-2 Con/-2 Cha, but I still don't like the -2 Con. Elves do get the advantage of the Elven Substitution Level for Generalist Wizards - they basically get the benefits of specializing without actually specializing.

In all cases, LA+1, much less LA+2, is probably a really poor play. No race in the game is worth a lost arcane caster level... even with buy-off, that's 15,000 XP you're down, assuming that you start above 10th. Not chump change, ever. Don't think it's worth it.

[Fax Celestis]

Int is the only really important stat here.

For a Shadowcaster (Int/Cha)/Sorcerer (Cha) build?

No.

You want Charisma, and unfortunately, you can't get that without LA or homebrew AFAIK. Stick with Human or Strongheart Halflings.

[lsfreak]

Worth noting that if you're not allowed flaws, the only way to early-entry is to go human (or strongheart halfling), since it needs three feats to get in (Precocious Apprentice, Versatile Spellcaster, Heighten Spell).

[Zaq]

For a Shadowcaster (Int/Cha)/Sorcerer (Cha) build?

No.

You want Charisma, and unfortunately, you can't get that without LA or homebrew AFAIK. Stick with Human or Strongheart Halflings.

Hellbred (FCII) and Spellscales (RotD) are LA0 races with bonuses to Charisma and penalties to Constitution. Hellbred are a lot cooler.

[DragoonWraith]

For a Shadowcaster (Int/Cha)/Sorcerer (Cha) build?

No.

You want Charisma, and unfortunately, you can't get that without LA or homebrew AFAIK. Stick with Human or Strongheart Halflings.
Oops, I thought this was a Shadowcaster/Wizard build and I thought Shadowcaster's used Int alone. I'm going to shut up now.

[sambo.]

what other mods do strongheart halflings get? that could be kewl

otherwise: human it is! (it's been AGES since i played a human in ADnD, like, 15 years at least)

[Grynning]

what other mods do strongheart halflings get? that could be kewl

otherwise: human it is! (it's been AGES since i played a human in ADnD, like, 15 years at least)

Pretty sure they're just like regular halflings, but they lose the +1 to all saves and get the bonus feat instead.

[sambo.]

Worth noting that if you're not allowed flaws, the only way to early-entry is to go human (or strongheart halfling), since it needs three feats to get in (Precocious Apprentice, Versatile Spellcaster, Heighten Spell).

errr, why do i need a race with a bonus feat at first level?

Sorcerer 1 (precocious apprentice) yes i'll need to get access to Noctumancer at level 5.

but why the other two?

none of the prestige classes i'll be taking have feat pre-reqs. only skill rank pre-reqs.

Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft 6 ranks each for Noctumancer and 6 ranks into Knowledge Religion for Mystic Theurge (i'll have the 6 ranks into Knowledge Arcana anyway).

i was thinking of the following progression:

1: Sorcerer 1 (percocious apprentice)
2-4: Shadowcaster
5-14: Noctumancer
15-20: Mystic Theurge

and i notice this build plan won't have access to ninth level arcane spells (effective sorcerer level of 17 @ clvl20). not that this is enough to prevent me from giving it a go, but worth mentioning (unless there's something in there i'm not seeing).

[DragoonWraith]

Well, you could (or at least, could in the very unlikely event that Exavian let you) be a Kobold, take Dragonwrought (Feat, Races of the Dragon), Draconic Rite of Passage (Ritual, Races of the Dragon), Draconic Resevoir (Feat), and Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (Ritual) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a). At level 6 (the earliest you could do this), you would be a Sorc 1/Shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 2 with 4th level Sorcerer spellcasting and 5th level Shadowcaster mystery-using. By 20, with Sorc 1/Shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 10/Mystic Theurge 6, you would have 18th level Sorcerer spellcasting and 19th level Shadowcaster mystery-using.

You could also be a Loredrake to get 20th (21st, technically, but there's no such thing, you'd just hit 20th at 19) level Sorcerer spellcasting, and you could be Venerable to get +3 to Int, Wis, and Cha, but then there's a reason why I said you'd very likely be laughed at if you asked to join Ex's game with such a thing.

Kobolds are pure cheese. It's delicious, but it's also bad for you.

[PhoenixRivers]

In all cases, LA+1, much less LA+2, is probably a really poor play. No race in the game is worth a lost arcane caster level... even with buy-off, that's 15,000 XP you're down, assuming that you start above 10th. Not chump change, ever. Don't think it's worth it.

In actual play, this is mitigated by the XP system. As a lower level, you'll earn more XP per encounter, and slowly catch up, levelling off at about 1/2 that for LA +1 and +2 (6000-7000, or half a level, whichever is less). How long it takes to get to that point?

By level 5 for LA 1. By level 14 for level 2.

[Eloel]

Well, you could (or at least, could in the very unlikely event that Exavian let you) be a Kobold, take Dragonwrought (Feat, Races of the Dragon), Draconic Rite of Passage (Ritual, Races of the Dragon), Draconic Resevoir (Feat), and Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (Ritual) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a). At level 6 (the earliest you could do this), you would be a Sorc 1/Shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 2 with 4th level Sorcerer spellcasting and 5th level Shadowcaster mystery-using. By 20, with Sorc 1/Shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 10/Mystic Theurge 6, you would have 18th level Sorcerer spellcasting and 19th level Shadowcaster mystery-using.

You could also be a Loredrake to get 20th (21st, technically, but there's no such thing, you'd just hit 20th at 19) level Sorcerer spellcasting, and you could be Venerable to get +3 to Int, Wis, and Cha, but then there's a reason why I said you'd very likely be laughed at if you asked to join Ex's game with such a thing.

Kobolds are pure cheese. It's delicious, but it's also bad for you.

Heck, go for both of them and straight sorcerer with full-PrCs. You get 9th level spells when WIZARDS (and they're supposed to be 1 ahead) reach their 8th level spells. Totally worth it.

[sambo.]

well, i'm playing my Noctumancer, Haruspex (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=30999), in a PbP game.

We just hit level 6 (Sorcerer 1/Shadow Caster 3/Noctumancer 2) and i'm wondering about feats.

my DM has already said he'll allow me to take Path Focus: Black Magic now, even though i won't actually get to take Black Magic mysteries for another two levels.

I'll be taking Elven Spell Lore once i get the requisit Int score. I'm also planning an Arcane Thesis on Dispel Magic (already been ruled that the bonus will apply to Greater Dispell Magic once available). I'll take Greater Path Focus: Black Magic at some stage too. thankfully the whole shadowcaster bonus feat bizzoid (one feat for every two paths i take Mysteries in)

anyone got any suggestions on a useful feat to take now?

[DragoonWraith]

In actual play, this is mitigated by the XP system. As a lower level, you'll earn more XP per encounter, and slowly catch up, levelling off at about 1/2 that for LA +1 and +2 (6000-7000, or half a level, whichever is less). How long it takes to get to that point?

By level 5 for LA 1. By level 14 for level 2.
OK, I didn't know you could completely and utterly buy off and gain back LA+1 by 5. That's quite a bit earlier than I assumed (of course, you also have to prove this to your DM, which may be difficult). The main thing, is there anything worth the hassle?

(yes, probably, but not most things, would be my guess)


anyone got any suggestions on a useful feat to take now?
Fraid not, mate; I've only skimmed the Shadow Magic section of Tome of Magic... anyway, enjoy the bump, I hope this doesn't run afoul of the thread necromancy rules...

[sambo.]

i decided on a little thread necromancy rather than start a new thread....

on Feats for a Noctumancer, how do playgrounders feel about a houseruled feat allowing a Noctumancer to burn Arcane spell slots to power Mysteries and vice-versa?

so, i could give up a first level spell slot use for the day to power additional mystery casts.

or, i could give up the use of a 2nd level mystery for the day to power a first or second level arcane spell.

could get a little funky once low level mysteries become Su abillities.