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Stormthorn
2009-10-05, 08:26 PM
How do i best go about taking a nearly complete stranger who has one class in common with me getting them to the point were i can pump them for highly personal and potentialy volatile information?
Or rather, how do i do that with the uttmost speed?

Siosilvar
2009-10-05, 08:27 PM
... why?

Stormthorn
2009-10-05, 08:35 PM
Why am i asking for help? Because i have reason to suspect this person will be resistant to my unextrodinary superpower: cause people to engage in self discloser.*

Why do i want to get this info form them? Because im curious and right now the only fulfilling activities in my entire life are gleaning information about people/things and beating video games.


*Trust me. I have this superpower. Sometimes i unexpectedly learn something boring like that they secretly like DnD. Sometimes i learn that a person was pressured into giving up their virginity to their sociopathic ex boyfriend months after they had broken up while he was with another girl.
Haveing this superpower is not always a good thing.

Cruxador
2009-10-05, 08:55 PM
How do i best go about taking a nearly complete stranger who has one class in common with me getting them to the point were i can pump them for highly personal and potentialy volatile information?
Or rather, how do i do that with the uttmost speed?

Be supremely charismatic, and hope you get lucky. Joking may help, but you have to have an innate and pretty much flawless understanding of when the right time is.


*Trust me. I have this superpower. Sometimes i unexpectedly learn something boring like that they secretly like DnD. Sometimes i learn that a person was pressured into giving up their virginity to their sociopathic ex boyfriend months after they had broken up while he was with another girl.
Haveing this superpower is not always a good thing.
That's not a superpower, brah. That's pretty much normal. Though the chick in question was probably trying to imply that she was interested in you in some manner. Unless she was a good friend of yours, in which case that's back in the fully normal category.

Stormthorn
2009-10-05, 09:04 PM
That's not a superpower, brah. That's pretty much normal. Though the chick in question was probably trying to imply that she was interested in you in some manner. Unless she was a good friend of yours, in which case that's back in the fully normal category.

Thats the thing. She was a failed attempt at girlfriend.

Another example involved a girl i just barely knew telling me that A: i cant repeat this to her good friend she was jsut talking to and B: What i cant repeat is that she isnt a virgin.
She says this before waltzing off to meet her boyfriend.
So...yea. In the circumstances it happens to me in it doesnt seem normal. Not that i would know for sure, since i have never had a girl ever claim to be attracted to me and only one ever imply it.


Simple: Tell them personal info about yourself that's also somewhat interesting. They'll try to match it. Also, smelling good helps.
Smell nice? Like perfume? Do you know any scents that arnt gender oriented (scent to attract men/ scent to attract women)?
Or do you mean just being clean?

Jack Squat
2009-10-05, 09:40 PM
Get them drunk. It's like a publicly available truth serum.*

Just don't get them too drunk, as things may no longer make sense.



*I don't condone actually doing this, unless you don't much care about ethics. But then you wouldn't really be listening to this warning anyways, now, would you.

Stormthorn
2009-10-05, 09:48 PM
Get them drunk. It's like a publicly available truth serum.*

Just don't get them too drunk, as things may no longer make sense.



*I don't condone actually doing this, unless you don't much care about ethics. But then you wouldn't really be listening to this warning anyways, now, would you.

How am i supposed to get this person drunk while on our college campus and still expect them to function in the class we share right after the period of time where neither of us have a class? Or for that matter, how do i get someone drunk that i dont know as of yet?

Syka
2009-10-05, 09:50 PM
So you feel like trying to mess with someone because you have nothing better to do?

Nice.

Why not, you know, try to get to know them so you have a friend and become unbored rather than just trying to get secrets out of them?

Jack Squat
2009-10-05, 09:51 PM
It's college, people are drunk all throughout the day. Which I don't get...I mean, why would anyone willingly drink Natty light?

Really though, I did put the whole "Not ethical" warning up for a reason.

Catch
2009-10-05, 09:57 PM
If you're looking for a hobby, try needlework.

It won't make you a bad person. Although the temptation to misuse those needles must be awful.

Stormthorn
2009-10-05, 09:59 PM
So you feel like trying to mess with someone because you have nothing better to do?

Nice.

Why not, you know, try to get to know them so you have a friend and become unbored rather than just trying to get secrets out of them?

I dont intend to harm them. But i want some information out of them and im not veyr good at actualy making friends. All the friends i have i have either known from a very young age or become friends with on accident.
Although i can see how my intentions are, if not harmful, at leat amoral.

HereticNox
2009-10-05, 10:10 PM
What happens after they disclose the information you want? Are you going to grow bored with the person, and betray the trust they just placed in you?

Something like trust, is built over time. If you try to hard to rush it, all you are going to do is come off as shallow in your interest. Which I suppose you are.

Stormthorn
2009-10-05, 10:20 PM
What happens after they disclose the information you want? Are you going to grow bored with the person, and betray the trust they just placed in you?

Thats not my intention. If i can get the information from them without alienating them then i would like to continue to be on friendly terms with xem.

HereticNox
2009-10-05, 10:22 PM
Well then why not just try to foster a healthy relationship? Isn't there something that can hold your attention?

thubby
2009-10-05, 10:28 PM
save them from mortal peril? by which i mean clandestinely put them in mortal peril and then "save" them. :smalltongue:

Jack Squat
2009-10-05, 10:33 PM
How about just chatting with them? I generally hear way more than I care about though this. If you're wanting to try to get information, you can try and steer the conversation. An example of flow would be:

Start with a remark about the class
Ask name (if you don't know it)
What major are you/them?
Where are you/they originally from (if you don't already know)?
[see if there's anything of interest about the person. I.E. do they have an abundance of Anime pins on their backpack, did you grow up where they currently live, are they wearing a hat with a dive flag on it, are they not wearing pants today. Stuff that you can talk about]

(If positive) make a remark about whatever it is.

(If negative) go for a general topic. You can look for some wacky news happenings (I look at Yahoo! News in their "Odd News" category), mention something about how traffic was bad, whatever.

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

In general, two topics to avoid discussing are politics and religion. It's not generally considered polite company to discuss it, especially when you don't know the person. Exceptions would be if it were a religious studies/poly sci class, you were at a rally of some sort, or the like.

Tyrant
2009-10-05, 10:34 PM
save them from mortal peril? by which i mean clandestinely put them in mortal peril and then "save" them. :smalltongue:
In combination with the alcohol idea, the person may tell you anything you could possibly want to know and as a bonus the peril may not have to be quite to actual mortal levels. Or it could all go horribly wrong, but either idea by itself had that risk anyway so you're not really losing much by combining them.

Stormthorn
2009-10-05, 10:40 PM
are they not wearing pants today
They always wear pants from what i have seen. So yea, if they wore a skirt i would have a good conversation starter. If they wore a skirt or perhaps just underwear then the range of questions i want answers to would grow smaller.

See, i have several questions and a yes to some of them, but not perhaps to others, would eliminate some other questions. And if i ask the wrong one first i would look silly moving on down the list.

Umm...i could ask them about the club i think they are in, just as soon as i confirm they are in the club.

Jack Squat
2009-10-05, 10:49 PM
They always wear pants from what i have seen. So yea, if they wore a skirt i would have a good conversation starter. If they wore a skirt or perhaps just underwear then the range of questions i want answers to would grow smaller.

Sorry, poor attempt at a joke.


See, i have several questions and a yes to some of them, but not perhaps to others, would eliminate some other questions. And if i ask the wrong one first i would look silly moving on down the list.

That's why you keep it general. Really, in practice, a conversation is going to go on whatever tangent it wants to that day, and a mental flow-chart isn't going to help much save to maybe give you ideas of things to toss in if the conversation starts to die down.


Umm...i could ask them about the club i think they are in, just as soon as i confirm they are in the club.

That's a good one.

Don Julio Anejo
2009-10-05, 11:39 PM
I second the "get them drunk" idea.

... Is there anything you want to find out about ME by any chance? :amused:

Fostire
2009-10-05, 11:57 PM
I third the get them drunk idea, because it works, and because if you don't get them too drunk it can also be really, really funny (which is an adequate reason for pretty much anything).

Jokes aside, Jack Squat is on the right track, start with general questions and the conversation will go onto less general stuff on it's own as you find things in common. Avoid prolonged silences. If a silence has gone on for more than 5 seconds (maybe less) ask another question.


Also, am I the only one reading stormthorn's post as if said really fast?

EndlessWrath
2009-10-06, 12:01 AM
People tend to give information to people they trust. We know that.
People tend to trust those they know better. Spend time with this person, just chill with a bunch of friends and him/her. the more time spent, the more he/she likes you, the more they like you the more they trust you.
-Wrath

Stormthorn
2009-10-06, 12:11 AM
I second the "get them drunk" idea.

... Is there anything you want to find out about ME by any chance? :amused:

Really depend supon how much booze i would need to buy you to get you drunk.


I third the get them drunk idea, because it works, and because if you don't get them too drunk it can also be really, really funny (which is an adequate reason for pretty much anything).

...

Also, am I the only one reading stormthorn's post as if said really fast?

Yes, drunk people are funny.

And i sometimes read my own posts like that. Mostly because i sometimes talk so fast i catch up to my own thinking buffer and have to stop. Particularly my OP was done out loud to myself as one breath and then typed. But i dont do that for every post. Just my first one if its short enough.


Spend time with this person, just chill with a bunch of friends and him/her.
:smallsmile: How funny you should type out him/her. That relates to one of the questions i have.

CrazySopher
2009-10-06, 12:45 AM
O_o Dude, if you can't tell whether or not she's a him or a her, I think you might want to aim a little bit higher as far as women go.

If you can't tell whether or not the person you're trying to get info from is a him or a her, well then... you need more help then we can give you, either because he/she needs to talk to you without it being awkward, or because your ability to recognize gender is prolly a good starting place to work at if you'd like to live in a varied, successful social environment.

EndlessWrath
2009-10-06, 01:02 AM
O_o Dude, if you can't tell whether or not she's a him or a her, I think you might want to aim a little bit higher as far as women go.

If you can't tell whether or not the person you're trying to get info from is a him or a her, well then... you need more help then we can give you, either because he/she needs to talk to you without it being awkward, or because your ability to recognize gender is prolly a good starting place to work at if you'd like to live in a varied, successful social environment.

you never know, it could be the real live version of :vaarsuvius:
also: it might not be a problem telling current gender. :smallconfused:

-Wrath

Don Julio Anejo
2009-10-06, 01:25 AM
If you can't tell whether or not the person you're trying to get info from is a him or a her, well then..
Well, then you need to get them drunk so you can find out, duh! :smallamused:

Stormthorn
2009-10-06, 02:01 PM
They could be transgender or a hermaphrodite or something.
They have boobs. They volunteered (very enthusiasticly) when a female was asked for in class.
I have heard at least one other girl claim they get the feeling that something is "wrong" with her.
I also get strange vibes, but i wouldnt put the word wrong on them.

They once handed two pieces of paper to me. One was for a lesbian speaker coming to the school. The other was for a transgendered speaker coming to the school.

Cobra_Ikari
2009-10-06, 02:05 PM
Every time I see this thread title, I think of conmen. >.>

loopy
2009-10-06, 02:10 PM
Every time I see this thread title, I think of conmen. >.>

You rang? :smallwink:

Jacklu
2009-10-06, 02:17 PM
You know, asking politely and upfront in a manner that indicates you are genuinely interested in finding out about them is a good way to find out about them. Though, if you are maliciously trying to dig information out of them for no other reason than because you want to solve a mystery, then you might want to consider letting it be.

Cookiemobsta
2009-10-06, 02:25 PM
Leil Lowndes writes books. Her books are your friends. Buy and read her books.

Coidzor
2009-10-06, 02:29 PM
Wouldn't doing it as quickly as possible just make it so you were bored again all the sooner anyway?

Jacklu
2009-10-06, 02:36 PM
Having read the last post on the previous page, I would like to amend my position. Given the nature of the secret you seem to be trying to dig up, I would just like to say that if they are not openly sharing it, that they are doing so for a reason and it is not only immoral, but just plain malicious to try to get that kind of information out of them. Especially if it is for no other reason than because you are bored and feel entitled to it by virtue of wanting to know.

Stormthorn
2009-10-06, 02:42 PM
Especially if it is for no other reason than because you are bored and feel entitled to it by virtue of wanting to know.

So im a villain? I suppose i could live with that.
I would do pretty much anyhting in pursuit of knowledge so long as it causes no harm and since i dont plan on telling anyone else (since that would be giving away power) you cant claim i am going to cause harm.

Pyrian
2009-10-06, 02:52 PM
A person presents themself as female and you want to find it if they're "really" female? And you think you're going to cause no harm? Have you thought this through?

Possibility 1: She's actually female, and is hurt and offended at the presumption that she might not be.

Possibility 2: She's not actually female, and is hurt and offended at your failure to be sensitive about something she's clearly unhappy about.

The question is inherently insulting, given that she's already presented her answer, and you're just calling BS on that answer.

Yora
2009-10-06, 02:56 PM
O_o Dude, if you can't tell whether or not she's a him or a her, I think you might want to aim a little bit higher as far as women go.

If you can't tell whether or not the person you're trying to get info from is a him or a her, well then... you need more help then we can give you, either because he/she needs to talk to you without it being awkward, or because your ability to recognize gender is prolly a good starting place to work at if you'd like to live in a varied, successful social environment.
Cute. There are still people living in that simple and sheltered world. :smallbiggrin:

Seriously, this is pretty offensive to a lot of people.

But I have to say this is a very weired thread. :smallbiggrin:

Stormthorn
2009-10-06, 03:02 PM
A person presents themself as female and you want to find it if they're "really" female? And you think you're going to cause no harm? Have you thought this through?

See, thats why they need to trust me so they will volunteer this information.
If i ask them directly it might hurt their feelings.

Heck, i dont care if she is an MTF aside from the fact that having not known any i would want to answer follow up questions.
If shes a lesbian or just a rather masculine (but not butch) chick then im less interested.

Yora
2009-10-06, 03:04 PM
What I don't get is, why this is so important to you?

If she's nice and you like her, talk to her and see if you become friends. And maybe at some point it might seem to be appropiate to ask something in that direction.
So what's the deal here?

Stormthorn
2009-10-06, 03:10 PM
If she's nice and you like her, talk to her and see if you become friends. And maybe at some point it might seem to be appropiate to ask something in that direction.
So what's the deal here?

I tend to be better at manipulating people than actualy becoming friends. Friendship (the kind i need to get that sort of information) requires honosty and stuff. I have a lot about myself i dont want to share or that might scare her off if i did.
Even more of an issue is time. When the semister ends i tend to never see my classmates again for more than an instant here or there.

Thigns would be simpler if our world didnt try to force people to conform to one of two gender identities. Well...not simpler over all. But easier for me right now.

Yora
2009-10-06, 03:13 PM
I somehow doubt that it's true, but from what you're talking here, it pretty much sounds like you don't want a friend and instead just want to screw with a person because you think she's a freak? And it's really important to you because you need any chance you can to mess with other people?

Sorry, but what you're saying here does not make much sense to me.

Jack Squat
2009-10-06, 03:25 PM
I tend to be better at manipulating people than actualy becoming friends.

I suppose that's one way for social interaction...


Friendship (the kind i need to get that sort of information) requires honosty and stuff. I have a lot about myself i dont want to share or that might scare her off if i did.

See, I don't go into my past with anybody because I think it'll make me look like a whiny emo kid. When asked, I stay very vague and that satisfies most people. You can do the same with things about yourself.


Even more of an issue is time. When the semister ends i tend to never see my classmates again for more than an instant here or there.

So become friends (or at least hold a couple conversations)? That's always an excuse to stop and talk to people in hallways as opposed to just acknowledging that they're there.


Thigns would be simpler if our world didnt try to force people to conform to one of two gender identities. Well...not simpler over all. But easier for me right now.

What other ones do you suggest? I mean, to my knowledge there are only two genders, which are based off the two sexes any species can be. I know some species are asexual, and some people identify that way, but I don't think that'd help your case any.

Yora
2009-10-06, 03:53 PM
Thigns would be simpler if our world didnt try to force people to conform to one of two gender identities. Well...not simpler over all. But easier for me right now.


What other ones do you suggest? I mean, to my knowledge there are only two genders, which are based off the two sexes any species can be. I know some species are asexual, and some people identify that way, but I don't think that'd help your case any.

No, things are quite a bit more difficult, when it comes to gender. Psychology and neurology are just slowly starting to begin to understand what gender is and what it is not, and it's not something society is very aware off. Whatever model you want to use, there are always a considerable number of people who "don't conform exactly with the gender models of man and woman".
And I somehow get the suspicion, that Stormthorn might have his own troubles with these things. There are some people with such situations in the LGBTitp threat who are usually more than willing to give advice, if needed.

Jack Squat
2009-10-06, 03:59 PM
No, things are quite a bit more difficult, when it comes to gender. Psychology and neurology are just slowly starting to begin to understand what gender is and what it is not, and it's not something society is very aware off. Whatever model you want to use, there are always a considerable number of people who "don't conform exactly with the gender models of man and woman".
And I somehow get the suspicion, that Stormthorn might have his own troubles with these things. There are some people with such situations in the LGBTitp threat who are usually more than willing to give advice, if needed.

Ah, thanks.

Being what and where my schools were, I'll freely admit that their definitions were most likely very outdated, and I was surprised they touched the issue at all.

Kaelaroth
2009-10-06, 05:37 PM
If you're looking for a hobby, try needlework.

It won't make you a bad person. Although the temptation to misuse those needles must be awful.

This's awesome.
Sorry, I have little else practical to add.

MethosH
2009-10-06, 08:27 PM
Why am i asking for help? Because i have reason to suspect this person will be resistant to my unextrodinary superpower: cause people to engage in self discloser.*

Why do i want to get this info form them? Because im curious and right now the only fulfilling activities in my entire life are gleaning information about people/things and beating video games.


*Trust me. I have this superpower. Sometimes i unexpectedly learn something boring like that they secretly like DnD. Sometimes i learn that a person was pressured into giving up their virginity to their sociopathic ex boyfriend months after they had broken up while he was with another girl.
Haveing this superpower is not always a good thing.

Er... I'm sorry to point this out... But I think you have a bigger issue here.

Stormthorn
2009-10-06, 08:45 PM
I somehow doubt that it's true, but from what you're talking here, it pretty much sounds like you don't want a friend and instead just want to screw with a person because you think she's a freak? And it's really important to you because you need any chance you can to mess with other people?

Well, no.
no.
I need more friends, so if that manges to happen thats cool. But i dont hold false hope that i have much in common with this person.
And i dont want to mess with her, just learn about her. I want veyr much to learn everything i can abotu every possible type of person and here i might have a new type of person on my hands.
Only once did i ever even threaten to actualy use the rare information i collect against someone and i didnt do it because the situation never got bad enough to warrant the complete destruction of their social life and parental relationships.
I dont want to hurt anyone if it can be avoided while still letting me learn.


And I somehow get the suspicion, that Stormthorn might have his own troubles with these things.
Im not gay. I think i would know if i was gay. I hope.
And im certainly not actualy a woman. The closest i come to that is enjoying the webcomic Venus Envy (http://www.venusenvycomic.com/index.php?id=3).


Er... I'm sorry to point this out... But I think you have a bigger issue here.
I dont actually think im a superhero. Just that i have learned to get people to tell me stuff with prolongued exposure to me so well that i dont need to think about it any more.

Fostire
2009-10-06, 09:03 PM
NThere are some people with such situations in the LGBTitp threat who are usually more than willing to give advice, if needed.

:smallbiggrin: I love when people make that typo.

stormthorn: I find your project to be very amusing and thus fully support it :smallcool:

Make sure to let me know how/if it works out.

Faulty
2009-10-06, 09:09 PM
Ah, thanks.

Being what and where my schools were, I'll freely admit that their definitions were most likely very outdated, and I was surprised they touched the issue at all.

There aren't even two sexes, i.e. intersexual people.


Well, no.
no.
I need more friends, so if that manges to happen thats cool. But i dont hold false hope that i have much in common with this person.
And i dont want to mess with her, just learn about her. I want veyr much to learn everything i can abotu every possible type of person and here i might have a new type of person on my hands.
Only once did i ever even threaten to actualy use the rare information i collect against someone and i didnt do it because the situation never got bad enough to warrant the complete destruction of their social life and parental relationships.
I dont want to hurt anyone if it can be avoided while still letting me learn.

You're taking your thirst for knowledge as more important than most people preference to not be manipulated. I think you need to iron out some issues with how you relate to people.

Jack Squat
2009-10-06, 09:17 PM
There aren't even two sexes, i.e. intersexual people.

Did I not just say my schooling was outdated? :smalltongue:

If I'm remembering my HS biology class correctly, I learned they're generally classified as a certain sex despite any other features. Of course, it was also kinda lumped in with Klinefelter's, so that should say something.

Faulty
2009-10-06, 09:40 PM
Did I not just say my schooling was outdated? :smalltongue:

If I'm remembering my HS biology class correctly, I learned they're generally classified as a certain sex despite any other features. Of course, it was also kinda lumped in with Klinefelter's, so that should say something.

In My Intro to Feminist Philosophy class it was argued that there are not just multiple genders and sexualities, but also multiple sexes and that people who don't fit into the sex binary (intersexuals) are forced into it (removing micropenises, make ****orises smaller, etc). Pretty interesting stuff, actually.

Syka
2009-10-06, 10:23 PM
So you feel like trying to mess with someone because you have nothing better to do?

Nice.

Why not, you know, try to get to know them so you have a friend and become unbored rather than just trying to get secrets out of them?

Knowing what you are trying to get out of her (and she is a her) makes me believe this opinion even more.

Coidzor
2009-10-06, 10:29 PM
There aren't even two sexes, i.e. intersexual people.

A bit sketchy though, because they're more just people who've had developmental disorders in utero rather than a regular sexual category.

Stormthorn
2009-10-06, 10:37 PM
Knowing what you are trying to get out of her (and she is a her) makes me believe this opinion even more.

Your disaproval hurts me deeply.

I odubt you know anything of me but you are one of the playgrounders who's posts i always stop to read when i come across them and i always consider what you have to say.

Syka
2009-10-07, 12:49 AM
Well, it's just kinda...mean. You could be Mother Teresa and I'd say the same thing. Wanting to quickly gain someone trust to get access to knowledge they obviously don't want questioned (such as gender identity) for personal gain is sketchy. Your intention may not be malicious but stuff like this can really hurt someone.

My advice would be to honestly try to become their friend. Or hell, ask her about transgenders if that's your object of curiosity since she's already opened herself up as one who has some knowledge about it. If she responds with a personal anecdote you'll have your answer. If not you still might come out of it with a friend and most likely the answer to some of those questions even if they don't relate to her.

For an example of how...horrible something like this can turn out see the recent case of Caster Semya (I think that's the spelling) a south African runner. Basically she was raised female and always thought she was female. After winning a big race some people questioned that fact. Genetic testig was done and she was found to be intersexed. This got leaked to the press before SHE even got the results.

More extreme but stuff like this can be sensitive. The only time I wouldn't avoid asking about it would be with someone who is open about it.

I dunno. I guess as someone who doesn't trust without reason (and what you'd consider a secret isn't necessarily what someone else would), it just kinda confirms why I don't trust without proof.

toddex
2009-10-07, 02:20 AM
I would just like to say you come off as that kid who always makes characters fashioned after sephiroth in some way. Back story always involves their family slaughtered and they are loners, full of angst.

Thajocoth
2009-10-07, 02:29 AM
My only advice on this matter is as follows: I don't think this is such a good idea.

The odds of this ending well are about the same as the odds of the winning lottery ticket being struck by lightning while the person who purchased it is being attacked by any of: a shark, alligator or hippopotamus.

Rettu Skcollob
2009-10-07, 05:32 AM
Well a quick scan of the thread doesn't appear to show that you've given any real information about the person, the information you need, not to mention the fact none of us are likely to be able to provide anything beyond basic information you should easily be able to think of yourself, given that we know little to nothing about the circumstances.

It seems you just want attention.

Furthermore, as has been repeated various times throughout; what you're doing sounds immoral, selfish and mean. Maybe you have your reasons, but from what you've said, it just seems like you're prying into peoples lives and trying to manipulate them into giving out sensitive information for your own entertainment.

Killer Angel
2009-10-07, 06:01 AM
I tend to be better at manipulating people than actualy becoming friends. Friendship (the kind i need to get that sort of information) requires honosty and stuff.

:smallyuk:
...no wonder you'd have an hard time in making true friends.

well, if you're very determined in your position, the only counsel I wanna give you to obtain the info you want, is: be a 3.5 wizard.

GoC
2009-10-07, 07:19 AM
You're taking your thirst for knowledge as more important than most people preference to not be manipulated. I think you need to iron out some issues with how you relate to people.

In practice I too consider my thirst for knowledge more important than people's preferences...

Faulty
2009-10-07, 07:28 AM
In practice I too consider my thirst for knowledge more important than people's preferences...

I'm going to iterate and say that that's not socially healthy or moral at all.

I'm really going to have to agree with Syka. You should really consider what you're trying to do. Few people enjoy the prospect of being manipulated, and if you're going to involve her in your thirst for knowledge, I suggest you add her feelings into the equation.

pendell
2009-10-07, 07:33 AM
Why do i want to get this info form them? Because im curious and right now the only fulfilling activities in my entire life are gleaning information about people/things and beating video games.


With respect, this is not a 'need'. If I say I need to gain a person's trust really quickly, it's because lives, jobs, or something else really important are at stake.

By contrast, it seems your most pressing problem is boredom. Gaining people's confidence for the sole purpose of getting them to share confidences with you is probably not the most productive way to deal with that issue.

I like Jack Squat's idea -- tell them about yourself, let them talk to you, and make a real relationship. I think you'll find that genuine friendship goes further than manipulation. Admittedly, the first is much harder to pull off -- you need a certain kind of person to make it work -- but better in the long run.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

GoC
2009-10-07, 07:34 AM
I'm going to iterate and say that that's not socially healthy or moral at all.
Do you honestly believe that our moral structures match?:smallsmile:


I'm really going to have to agree with Syka. You should really consider what you're trying to do. Few people enjoy the prospect of being manipulated, and if you're going to involve her in your thirst for knowledge, I suggest you add her feelings into the equation.
You just need to be discreet.:smallbiggrin:

Faulty
2009-10-07, 07:43 AM
Do you honestly believe that our moral structures match?:smallsmile:

Frankly I wouldn't call your structure moral in the least. Stormthorn needs to really balance his thirst for emotions with the possibility that the person he's interesting in gaining the trust of has a thirst for security.

Fostire
2009-10-07, 07:48 AM
Frankly I wouldn't call your structure moral in the least. Stormthorn needs to really balance his thirst for emotions with the possibility that the person he's interesting in gaining the trust of has a thirst for security.

I don't think the person's security is at risk. Stormthorn has repeatedly said that he has no intention of revealing the info to anyone and he has no intention to use it against the person in any way unless he really has to (which I assume would involve a life or death situation or something of similar magnitude)

Jack Squat
2009-10-07, 08:00 AM
Frankly I wouldn't call your structure moral in the least.

Morality is subjective, not absolute. There are a few generally accepted things that are immoral (murder, rape, etc.), but even those can vary depending on culture.

Minor "manipulation" (really, I'd just call it prying or being nosy) is much more amoral than it is immoral. I still suggest trying to befriend someone to get information (or at least pretending to), but if society considered this type of thing immoral magazines like People, OK, and Star wouldn't sell.

Quincunx
2009-10-07, 08:00 AM
Truename divination would give you the power, the white death would get you the trust, or the scent would simply answer your (first) question. All in all, though, you're just setting yourself up to get a five-day gob smeared on your nose in a gesture of contempt.

GoC
2009-10-07, 08:00 AM
Frankly I wouldn't call your structure moral in the least.
Question: Do you know that this statement and my (implied) statement you quoted are equivalent?

Faulty
2009-10-07, 08:03 AM
I'm not going to get into a debate on ethics. I've stated my opinion on what Stormthorn should do, and that's that.

GoC
2009-10-07, 08:28 AM
I'm not going to get into a debate on ethics. I've stated my opinion on what Stormthorn should do, and that's that.

But I'd still like an answer to my question as I'm honestly curious how good the average person is at analyzing text.

Stormthorn
2009-10-07, 08:41 AM
I would just like to say you come off as that kid who always makes characters fashioned after sephiroth in some way. Back story always involves their family slaughtered and they are loners, full of angst.

A: That doesnt really apply here.
B: Not really. My villains maybe but my heroes dont tend to be very angsty at all. Angstiest one i have written (not played yet) was a closeted lesbian. In a hetro-normative all female cult.
C: Sepirhoth is a silyl mommas boy in a series of games i dont often play. And his name makes no sense as he is in no way related to the pillars of god.

Faulty
2009-10-07, 08:47 AM
But I'd still like an answer to my question as I'm honestly curious how good the average person is at analyzing text.

What I sensed was that you're coming from the position of moral subjectivity, i.e. you're saying that we have two different but otherwise subjectively equal moral structures. On the other hand I'm coming from a position of moral objectivity, saying that my views are objectively moral and yours are not.

I'd rather we not elaborate further. It risks derailing the thread. I hope that answered your question, though.

GoC
2009-10-07, 09:00 AM
What I sensed was that you're coming from the position of moral subjectivity, i.e. you're saying that we have two different but otherwise subjectively equal moral structures. On the other hand I'm coming from a position of moral objectivity, saying that my views are objectively moral and yours are not.

I'd rather we not elaborate further. It risks derailing the thread. I hope that answered your question, though.

Very well. Here's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7072859#post7072859) my critiscism of using the word "objective" when refering to morality.

Fawkes
2009-10-07, 09:58 AM
I dont actually think im a superhero.

Well, obviously. You're clearly more of the supervillain type.

Totally Guy
2009-10-07, 12:37 PM
You're clearly more of the supervillain type.

Supervillains do bad but important things. This is more like mugging someone for information.

Myshlaevsky
2009-10-07, 12:38 PM
Supervillains do bad but important things. This is more like mugging someone for information.

It just seems like stuff and nonsense to me.

Stormthorn
2009-10-07, 06:28 PM
Update: She is a very friendly and outgoing lesbian who, as far as i can tell, just happens to have a fairly masculine body structure.
I also may be making a friend.

Fostire
2009-10-07, 06:34 PM
Update: She is a very friendly and outgoing lesbian who, as far as i can tell, just happens to have a fairly masculine body structure.
I also may be making a friend.

Congratulations on your success :smallcool:

pendell
2009-10-07, 07:24 PM
Update: She is a very friendly and outgoing lesbian who, as far as i can tell, just happens to have a fairly masculine body structure.
I also may be making a friend.

Congrats!

Respectfully,

Brian P.