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shadow_archmagi
2009-10-06, 07:50 AM
So, in an evil campaign I'm in, I don't really have the cash to pay the 50000 or so GP it takes to make a shadowsteel golem.

On the other hand, opening a portal to the plane of shadow and sending in four hundred miners seems doable (they want, what, a GP a week each?). (Plus it opens up opportunities on the DM's part for shadow-monsters to attack the miners, prompting more adventures)

Suggestions? Tips? Important details? How the hell do I open a portal to the plane of shadow?

TelemontTanthul
2009-10-06, 10:47 AM
If I recall, you can hire practically any Shadow Mage to help you out. Or, if there are none in your campaign setting (which is?) you can always look for a Planar Gate cube, it is an artifact that basically looks like a steel cube with a button on each side.

Just don't push ALL the buttons at once, if memory serves, it is VERY VERY BAD.

That is all the advice that I can give really, since I don't know if you are in FR or just in a made up setting.

Tavar
2009-10-06, 10:50 AM
Wouldn't Gate work? Granted, it's not the best use of the spell, but then again it's not one of the cheesy uses either, so it likely won't be banned.

jiriku
2009-10-06, 11:47 AM
I'm pretty sure that repeated castings of plane shift or shadow walk (just wander off the path) will accomplish the deed.

Deth Muncher
2009-10-06, 11:51 AM
Whoa. Planar Gate cube. Do want. Where is this mentioned?

arguskos
2009-10-06, 11:52 AM
It's called a Cubic Gate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#cubicGate). It's on the SRD for gods sake. No one seems to remember that the DM had items, and that they were cool. :smallcool:

Deth Muncher
2009-10-06, 11:54 AM
It's called a Cubic Gate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#cubicGate). It's on the SRD for gods sake. No one seems to remember that the DM had items, and that they were cool. :smallcool:

WHAT?! Good items in core?!

arguskos
2009-10-06, 11:56 AM
WHAT?! Good items in core?!
Seriously, it has some fun stuff. :smalltongue:

Everyone seems to forget that there's a Wondrous Item section in the DMG. /facepalm

Also, the obligatory "Good items? In MY Core? It's more likely than you think. :smallwink:". Apologies to all involved.

Tavar
2009-10-06, 12:02 PM
I think one problem is that I can count the number of times I've had 164000 gp to spend on one item on one hand. It's hard to remember items that aren't available most of the time.

arguskos
2009-10-06, 12:08 PM
I think one problem is that I can count the number of times I've had 164000 gp to spend on one item on one hand. It's hard to remember items that aren't available most of the time.
True enough, though I tend to recall the Cubic Gate, cause it's COOL. I gave one to my party once. They loooooved that item, though they hated using a new side they hadn't figured out yet, especially since stuff comes through the gate when you aren't expecting it. It's always enjoyable to have a player say "ok, we'll active side 4", you roll some d%s and go "oh, bad luck, that was Acheron, here, have a warband of planar orcs." The player's expressions? Priceless! :smallbiggrin:

Deth Muncher
2009-10-06, 12:18 PM
"oh, bad luck, that was Acheron, here, have a warband of planar orcs." The player's expressions? Priceless! :smallbiggrin:

That is glorious.

Jair Barik
2009-10-06, 12:22 PM
The funniest over priced item IMHO is the immovable rod. Its priceless for boat related hilarity or any other form of traditional transport that has rooms in it. Also ammusing means of fighting animals that have the swallow whole ability.

arguskos
2009-10-06, 12:23 PM
That is glorious.
"Peter... remember, with great items comes great responsibil-"
"Don't you mean loot? Great loot?"
"Dammit... Peter... I said, responsibil-"
"Yeah, yeah, loot, I got it. Later Uncle Ben."
"...my heart!" *dies*

Actual exchange between two characters (neither were named Ben or Peter, but the one playing Ben really was dying) when they got the Cubic Gate. :smallwink:

Heh, I had a player get swallowed by a Purple Worm on purpose once, then activate a pair of Immovable Rods inside it, and just hang on for dear life. The poor thing impaled itself from the inside. :smallfrown:

Jair Barik
2009-10-06, 12:26 PM
Immovable rod+Gnomish submergible=hilarity.

Though its best to try and forget real life physics if this ever comes up.

arguskos
2009-10-06, 12:27 PM
Immovable rod+Gnomish submergible=hilarity.

Though its best to try and forget real life physics if this ever comes up.
Heh, I got one better:

Smokepowder bombs+a barrel of alchemist's fire+a fire elemental powered airship+Telekinesis=OHGODITSRAININGFIREAUGH!!!

Deth Muncher
2009-10-06, 12:29 PM
"Peter... remember, with great items comes great responsibil-"
"Don't you mean loot? Great loot?"
"Dammit... Peter... I said, responsibil-"
"Yeah, yeah, loot, I got it. Later Uncle Ben."
"...my heart!" *dies*

Actual exchange between two characters (neither were named Ben or Peter, but the one playing Ben really was dying) when they got the Cubic Gate. :smallwink:

Heh, I had a player get swallowed by a Purple Worm on purpose once, then activate a pair of Immovable Rods inside it, and just hang on for dear life. The poor thing impaled itself from the inside. :smallfrown:

Also equally glorious.

Perhaps moreso IMO, due to my Marvel Disney MARVEL fanboydom. (Not to be confused with fanboidom.)

Reaper_Monkey
2009-10-06, 12:32 PM
WHAT?! Good items in core?!

Cummon, how many times have people used a Decanter of Endless Water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#decanterofEndlessWater) to create entertaining and shiney effects? Or the innumerable times you've obtained Handy Haversacks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#handyHaversack) and Bags of Holding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bagofHolding)? There are endless piles of good stuff in core, just people never think of them in such a way because they're so use to them.

Also, yeah, I get that your joking - I just wanted to point out that although items aint as wondrous as they once were, they are still awesome in their own right.

Jair Barik
2009-10-06, 12:33 PM
Just remembered a great one. Bag of twent immovable rods. One at the very bottom of the bag is cursed so that pressing its button deactivates all of the rods for one hour. Hilarity ensues. :smallamused:

Johel
2009-10-06, 12:41 PM
Heh, I had a player get swallowed by a Purple Worm on purpose once, then activate a pair of Immovable Rods inside it, and just hang on for dear life. The poor thing impaled itself from the inside. :smallfrown:

Someone on this very forum did something similar with a impaled Tarrasque, with a city build around it. The poor beasty, thanks to its amazing regeneration capacity, was basically used to get an infinite amount of food and magical components.

@shadow_archmagi
You got it right about the miners, the monsters and the cost.
The portal can be done using "Gate", "Shadow walk" or "Plane Shift".
You want to use Gate rather than the others, since there's no limit in how many creature can cross the Gate before it collapses.
A 20feet large Gate, if you can hold it for 20 rounds, can be crossed by a lot of people.
A column large of 4 miners and long of 6 can cross in 1 round.
That's about 24 miners per round, so we are talking about 480 miners in 20 rounds. Also, they arrive at a specific location, no error.

Only potential issue is bringing back the shadowiron once it's extracted. But it's really nothing to worry too much about. Worst case, you waste a month casting Gates.

arguskos
2009-10-06, 12:46 PM
Johel, that Tarrasque city originated on another board. I remember reading that thread actually, and it was messed up... but SOO AWESOME. They had Immovable Harpoons pinning it down while people coup de grace'd with scythes to get the meat. The image was... disturbing.

Also, shadow archmagi, why are you mining shadowiron if you can't actually afford to make the golem? :smallconfused:

Johel
2009-10-06, 12:49 PM
Johel, that Tarrasque city originated on another board. I remember reading that thread actually, and it was messed up... but SOO AWESOME. They had Immovable Harpoons pinning it down while people coup de grace'd with scythes to get the meat. The image was... disturbing.

Also, shadow archmagi, why are you mining shadowiron if you can't actually afford to make the golem? :smallconfused:

That's that thread !! :smallsmile:

Answer for shadowarchmagi : Because the shadowsteel represents most of the golem's cost ? So if he can get said iron by mining it rather than buying it, the fabrication cost goes down.

arguskos
2009-10-06, 12:52 PM
That's that thread !! :smallsmile:

Answer for shadowarchmagi : Because the shadowsteel represents most of the golem's cost ? So if he can get said iron by mining it rather than buying it, the fabrication cost goes down.
By RAW, the costs for producing golems can't be mitigated by acquiring your materials personally. The rest of the cost is made up somewhere else.

Then again, should Mr. Archmagi's DM rule differently, I would approve heartily! I like players who take initiative on item creation.

Johel
2009-10-06, 01:15 PM
By RAW, the costs for producing golems can't be mitigated by acquiring your materials personally. The rest of the cost is made up somewhere else.

Then again, should Mr. Archmagi's DM rule differently, I would approve heartily! I like players who take initiative on item creation.

I don't know for the shadow golem but the entry for Iron Golem gives us this :

An iron golemís body is sculpted from 5,000 pounds of pure iron, smelted with rare tinctures and admixtures costing at least 10,000 gp. Assembling the body requires a DC 20 Craft (armorsmithing) check or a DC 20 Craft (weaponsmithing) check.
(...)
Cost 80,000 gp + 5,600 XP

We know that iron cost 1sp per pound. So, that's about 500 gp for the raw material. You can then reduce the cost of the Golem by 500 gp if you find a way to get free iron.

If Shadowiron's price is higher than normal iron, then the economy might be greater.

It sounds logical to me, at least... but I'm not the more rational mind around. :smallbiggrin:

arguskos
2009-10-06, 01:19 PM
"The Shadesteel Golem must be made entirely on the Plane of Shadow from steel that is mixed with rare shadow liquids. This shadow-tempered steel costs 10,000 gp to create."

Transcripted from the entry directly. In any case, I'm curious what shadow's DM has said about this course of action. Seems like something I'd do.

Johel
2009-10-06, 01:27 PM
"The Shadesteel Golem must be made entirely on the Plane of Shadow from steel that is mixed with rare shadow liquids. This shadow-tempered steel costs 10,000 gp to create."

Transcripted from the entry directly. In any case, I'm curious what shadow's DM has said about this course of action. Seems like something I'd do.

Ouch... So, he's not looking for miners but for blacksmiths, then.
It's going to take a little more effort than just "gating" everybody in and out of the Plane of Shadows, then.

Gate the manpower in
Build an outpost, with a forge.
Find that bloody shadow liquid (or die trying)
Start producing Shadesteel using local material.
Protect your people from the local denizens.
Pray that the blacksmiths finish the thing before you get killed.

arguskos
2009-10-06, 01:28 PM
Don't forget: Find the Shadow Liquids. They are marked as being rare, implying difficult to find.

Johel
2009-10-06, 01:34 PM
*EDIT*
I have nooooooo idea of what you are talking about.
:smalltongue:

I guess Locate Object won't work, at least as long as you haven't at least found a little quantity of the liquid ?

arguskos
2009-10-06, 01:37 PM
Can Locate Object find a general category of items? I thought it only could find a specific object you have had contact with. :smallconfused:

shadow_archmagi
2009-10-06, 02:09 PM
Thanks guys. Yeah, the magic Cube won't really work, since an average of one encounter every ten minutes is going to cause serious difficulties, plus spending 164 thousand gold to get a 10k discount isn't really cost effective.

In fact, now that I look at it, even if I knock off the 10k worth of shadowsteel, that still leaves 60k in "other materials." There's also the trouble that Gate is a ninth level spell, which means that I couldn't obtain it for quite some time. In fact, CL 17 is required just to craft the maggots, which means I couldn't acquire them for quite some time.

This whole plan just doesn't seem like it's going to happen in the short term, or be particularly viable in the long term. :smallannoyed:

Of course, that doesn't mean I can't try! Failure is the spice which, sometimes, must flow.

EDIT: And besides, even if it is ultimately a lot of time and effort for what amounts to a 15% discount, it'll be funnn

Johel
2009-10-06, 02:14 PM
Of course, that doesn't mean I can't try! Failure is the spice which, sometimes, must flow.

Failure must flow !! Failure is life !! Failure is power !!

Lapak
2009-10-06, 02:26 PM
Even if you could get the gate, I would be extremely impressed if you can find 400 professional workers who are willing to hire on for hazardous planar travel. Regular mining is dangerous enough already!

arguskos
2009-10-06, 02:28 PM
Shadow, the best way I can see to get these things is to A). steal one and trick it into obeying you (no idea how) or; B). buy the materials, and pay a CL 17 caster to enchant it and transfer control to you. It's a good option if you're rolling in money or somesuch.

shadow_archmagi
2009-10-06, 02:29 PM
Even if you could get the gate, I would be extremely impressed if you can find 400 professional workers who are willing to hire on for hazardous planar travel. Regular mining is dangerous enough already!

I'm an artificer posting on a message board.

Nothing is impossible. Only expensive, improbable, difficult, or banned by the DM.

EDIT: @ Arg: I am not rolling in money.

Johel
2009-10-06, 02:31 PM
Or go for a regular Iron Golem, which is still not that bad.
What do you plan to do with it, anyway ?

arguskos
2009-10-06, 02:33 PM
I'm an artificer posting on a message board.

Nothing is impossible. Only expensive, improbable, difficult, or banned by the DM.

EDIT: @ Arg: I am not rolling in money.
I sincerely think that if you aren't rolling cashy monies, then Shadesteel Golems are probably off the list anyways.

However, should your DM be nice and permit such things, ask them about researching a custom "Control Transfer" spell tuned to Shadesteel Golems, and go find one and use the spell on it.

@Johel: Break people, duh.

shadow_archmagi
2009-10-06, 02:37 PM
Or go for a regular Iron Golem, which is still not that bad.

Iron golems can't fly or shoot lasers, which makes them seriously inferior in my book, regardless of the UTILITY. It's the baddassery value that I want here.

Plus the only other party member is a necromancer, so I get real mileage out of the 12d6 bursts.



what do you even need them for


I hadn't really thought that far ahead

I just wanted some, because, you know

They're evil robots from an alternate dimension that fly and spit zombifying lightning. Why would I not want one?

Jair Barik
2009-10-06, 02:42 PM
Personally if you want to go on an amusing quest to get materials for a golem discount you can do much better than shadesteel in my opinion. Demonflesh or hellfire golem would be much more fun to collect ingridients for (or for a slightly less expensive budget, a Blood golem of hextor or a tombstone golem)

Johel
2009-10-06, 02:44 PM
I hadn't really thought that far ahead
I just wanted some, because, you know...


This goes in my signature :smallbiggrin:

shadow_archmagi
2009-10-06, 02:47 PM
This goes in my signature :smallbiggrin:

Personally I'd have quoted the "flying robots etc" bit, but I feel honored anyway.

Johel
2009-10-06, 02:58 PM
Personally I'd have quoted the "flying robots etc" bit, but I feel honored anyway.

The "I hadn't really thought that far ahead" was much more funny.
Really "Evil Genius" in spirit. :smallbiggrin:

-Oh !! This laser is 1.000 zillions Hertz !! I must have one !!
-Why, boss ? We don't even have money for normal weapons. What would you do with it ?
-I hadn't really thought that far ahead... but I'll find something. You never know when a doomsday device can be useful.

arguskos
2009-10-06, 03:01 PM
-Oh !! This laser is 1.000 zillions Hertz !! I must have one !!
-Why, boss ? We don't even have money for normal weapons. What would you do with it ?
-I hadn't really thought that far ahead... but I'll find something. You never know when a doomsday device can be useful.[/I]
Oh boy!! I need this 10000000000 Hertz laser!!
Uh, boss? What're you gonna do with it? We can't even afford body armor!
Huh... good question. I like this!
*bzzzt henchman vanishes*
Hah, take that Nameless Henchmen 459! Next Henchman!

Johel
2009-10-06, 03:55 PM
Oh boy!! I need this 10000000000 Hertz laser!!
Uh, boss? What're you gonna do with it? We can't even afford body armor!
Huh... good question. I like this!
*bzzzt henchman vanishes*
Hah, take that Nameless Henchmen 459! Next Henchman!

:smallbiggrin:

arguskos
2009-10-06, 06:06 PM
Meh, I liked it. :smallcool:

Thurbane
2009-10-06, 08:22 PM
Just don't push ALL the buttons at once, if memory serves, it is VERY VERY BAD.
...because then the Cenobites appear! :smallbiggrin:

"Ah the suffering, the sweet suffering..."

arguskos
2009-10-06, 08:33 PM
...because then the Cenobites appear! :smallbiggrin:

"Ah the suffering, the sweet suffering..."
Lol Cenobites.

Nah, nothing actually happens if you try to trigger two sides at once, the item actually prevents that from happening.

Dixieboy
2009-10-06, 08:33 PM
It's called a Cubic Gate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#cubicGate). It's on the SRD for gods sake. No one seems to remember that the DM had items, and that they were cool. :smallcool:

Dust of dryness seems to have potential, mainly because it doesn't specify a max amount :smallbiggrin:

shadow_archmagi
2009-10-07, 06:04 AM
So, erm, yeah.

Any non-gate way to get a working portal open?

Darrin
2009-10-07, 06:56 AM
So... would this work?

1. Buy a clockwork pony (MM4), 2150 GP.
2. Pay for a casting of Polymorph Any Object, 1200 GP, turn pony into shadesteel golem.
3. Kill/disable golem. It doesn't inherit any (Su) abilities, but gets Immunity to Magic (Ex).
4. Repair body. (Note: at best, this only knocks 10000 GP off the 70000 price.)
5. Re-construct as a fully-functional shadesteel golem. 60000 GP?
6. ...Profit?

Johel
2009-10-07, 07:04 AM
So, erm, yeah.

Any non-gate way to get a working portal open?

If it must STAY open, nope, no other way.
Otherwise, you need Plane Shift, 7th level spell.
Short of that, you would be stuck in the Plane of Shadows.

Dixieboy
2009-10-07, 02:23 PM
Doesn't forgotten realm have a portal crafting feat or something?

arguskos
2009-10-07, 02:28 PM
Doesn't forgotten realm have a portal crafting feat or something?
Kinda. Portals are wondrous items that require Plane Shift to create. However, if you take the Portal Master feat (Player's Guide to Faerun) you can cut the cost of making one by 50%! That's really the only way to do it that doesn't involve Gate spells.