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View Full Version : This is all your fault, so now I'm asking you for advice. ;)



RabidEel
2009-10-06, 08:16 PM
Okay, it's the Giant's fault, really. I heard people talking about Order of the Stick, and decided to check it out... there went my whole weekend. And life. Like Ebola or the swine flu, the OOTS bug spreads with a frightening ease from victim to victim. I infected my brother in short order, and now my other brother is coming down with it too, soon the whole world will be overrun with stick figures- but I digress.

Anyway, last week we made the final plunge beyond the threshold of geekery, past the point of no return- Brother #1 said, "Hey, let's play Dungeons and Dragons." And so we found ourselves in the basement playing with Lego figures, while I did my darnedest as DM to get frustrate, confuse, injure, and inconvenience them, thus buying me time to figure out what the heck I was doing. After a few days of this, I decided I wasn't going to magically get any better at improv, so I scrapped that game for a more ordered one.

So I've got a (devious) setting, lateral thinking riddles, and the beginning of a plot- but I need some help. I figure Rich Burlew's twisted mind must have rubbed off you guys somehow, so maybe you can help me piece this one together.

The basic plot is that our four heroes (two for each brother) wake up in a literal dungeon, with no idea how and why they got there and not much memory of their pasts. They use lateral thinking to overcome obstacles, and gain tantalizing hints as to their past. The Final Revelation Grand Secret not only tells them how and why they got in their, it gives them a lateral-thinking clue as to how to get out.

I've only gotten the vaguest idea of what the big secret is, though. One good idea actually came from one of the PC's- Bro #1 has been studying the manual way too much, and he's really big on having a paladin dedicated to... that dragon justice god. Starts with a B. Anyway, he said it would be funny if he thought he was B's cleric because he remembered dragons, but it turned out he was actually Tiamat's.
I'm thinking that straight-minded B's Cleric made some sort of deal with Tiamat that went wrong. Tiamat's an evil god, so she should be into trickery and slyness, no? So Mr. Lawful Good claims to be superior because he's lawful good, and Tiamat gets mad and chucks him into a dungeon where he'll have to survive by brain instead of brawn.

However, I can't think of a way to integrate Tiamat's Revenge into a lateral-thinking method of escaping. My brothers are getting impatient, so pretty please can you help me with this one?

Thanks. I really appreciate any help.

P.S. It would be too much to ask for honey to be integrated into the solution some way...?

Assassin89
2009-10-06, 08:24 PM
How about this trap? There is a 30 foot wide chasm in the center of a 50 foot room. On both sides of the chasm, there are pathways, both of which lead to a pit of spikes. The way to get across? Just walk across the chasm. (It's a wall of force)

As for integrating honey into the solution, have a bear that will not leave a certain spot until it is given some honey.

Alternatively, have something who is willing to help the party if he is captured. Normal tactics of just grabbing the creature is useless, as the creature is invisible, so something sticky would have to be used in order to trap the creature.

Paulus
2009-10-06, 09:02 PM
Okay, it's the Giant's fault, really. I heard people talking about Order of the Stick, and decided to check it out... there went my whole weekend. And life. Like Ebola or the swine flu, the OOTS bug spreads with a frightening ease from victim to victim. I infected my brother in short order, and now my other brother is coming down with it too, soon the whole world will be overrun with stick figures- but I digress.

Anyway, last week we made the final plunge beyond the threshold of geekery, past the point of no return- Brother #1 said, "Hey, let's play Dungeons and Dragons." And so we found ourselves in the basement playing with Lego figures, while I did my darnedest as DM to get frustrate, confuse, injure, and inconvenience them, thus buying me time to figure out what the heck I was doing. After a few days of this, I decided I wasn't going to magically get any better at improv, so I scrapped that game for a more ordered one.

So I've got a (devious) setting, lateral thinking riddles, and the beginning of a plot- but I need some help. I figure Rich Burlew's twisted mind must have rubbed off you guys somehow, so maybe you can help me piece this one together.

The basic plot is that our four heroes (two for each brother) wake up in a literal dungeon, with no idea how and why they got there and not much memory of their pasts. They use lateral thinking to overcome obstacles, and gain tantalizing hints as to their past. The Final Revelation Grand Secret not only tells them how and why they got in their, it gives them a lateral-thinking clue as to how to get out.

I've only gotten the vaguest idea of what the big secret is, though. One good idea actually came from one of the PC's- Bro #1 has been studying the manual way too much, and he's really big on having a paladin dedicated to... that dragon justice god. Starts with a B. Anyway, he said it would be funny if he thought he was B's cleric because he remembered dragons, but it turned out he was actually Tiamat's.
I'm thinking that straight-minded B's Cleric made some sort of deal with Tiamat that went wrong. Tiamat's an evil god, so she should be into trickery and slyness, no? So Mr. Lawful Good claims to be superior because he's lawful good, and Tiamat gets mad and chucks him into a dungeon where he'll have to survive by brain instead of brawn.

However, I can't think of a way to integrate Tiamat's Revenge into a lateral-thinking method of escaping. My brothers are getting impatient, so pretty please can you help me with this one?

Thanks. I really appreciate any help.

P.S. It would be too much to ask for honey to be integrated into the solution some way...?

There are five paths presented for escape,

1) blasts them with cold wind, floor covered in ice, icicles fall from the ceiling nearly impaling them.
2) walls made of fire, with a heated floor, an jets of steam hissing from vents in the ceiling.
3) Lightening radiates from a ball in the center of an all metal room, metal rods jut from the ceiling AND the floors are electrified.
4) There is no floor. Only a pool of acid, hand holds on the side walls that spit out acid, and a ceiling that literally drips acid.
5) Ah, THIS room is nothing but a section of locked heavy doors, and the entire room is flooded with chlorine gas. Which ever room they try to cross will lead to certain death, and they WILL die each time, and each time they do they reappear back in the original last room with the five room choices. Tiamat's hell of five heads.

But. Before the players despair, if they search the room more thoroughly, they will find... honey? yes. Honey. Dripping from a small crack in the room. Attacking the crack -hard- will reveal, the hidden way out. A huge bee hive with minor swarms of bees. If they choose this way out, they will oddly discover an old man, a bee keeper, who has been raising bees in that area of years and years. Unaware his bees were digging into that dungeon.

He, if they should decide to ask, just happens to be a worshiper of Bahamut.

Now if that don't make them remember, and thus to change their ways to follow good and such, well... what will?

EDIT: also, feel free to let them not make search checks and try to escape via the paths. at the end of each path, if they manage to survive getting by them by some miracle, be a solid wall. And they are instantly ported back to the original room, in their current condition. And then when they begin to flip out and they STILL haven't searched enough or made spot checks, tell them they suddenly smell a wif of honey. Following it leads to the drip etc.
or if they pray to bahamut, or search thoroughly, etc.

If they make their search checks feel free to let them find the crack right away, but make it harder to break through. So they MAY give up and try the rooms, and in doing so, after a few death, THEN let them suddenly hear a slight hum. A buzz. when they search the crack again, they will find a bee crawling around and then back in. This time if they attack the crack, it finally gives way etc.

And o a further note: The plot hook sounds fine for him, but not everybody. So. I would suggest they all have something to do with it. Say... player one who worship Tiamat was thinking of switching sides, player two's characters were his contacts to get him out of her clutches, smugglers to get him out of the country, and the other guy was his devote follower, choosing him over Tiamat too. Can't say for certain after all I'd need better descriptions and back story clues to the characters.

RabidEel
2009-10-06, 09:35 PM
Thanks. Yes, Bahamut, that was the name.

What I meant with the honey thing was, I want to put the escape plan and the final revelation behind a door with a riddle on it. I made up a riddle a while ago with the answer "honey", so I'm using that one. I was trying to think if I could actually connect honey to the storyline or something, but if not, it will still work.

Question about dungeon layouts- should every room have some sort of encounter or item? Or should there be occasional empty rooms with no immediate relevance?

And, since my brother is so pedantic, is my assessment of Tiamat=sneaky sound?

I'm going to have one of the random encounters be Belkar- and one of the random found items be Mr. Scruffy. If they have Mr. Scruffy with them when they stumble upon Belkar's lair, they'll know who they're up agiasnt and gain a few precious seconds as he yells out, "Mr. Scruffy!". If they don't have the cat with them, the first thing they know is that someone is dead.

Paulus
2009-10-06, 09:45 PM
Thanks. Yes, Bahamut, that was the name.

What I meant with the honey thing was, I want to put the escape plan and the final revelation behind a door with a riddle on it. I made up a riddle a while ago with the answer "honey", so I'm using that one. I was trying to think if I could actually connect honey to the storyline or something, but if not, it will still work.

Question about dungeon layouts- should every room have some sort of encounter or item? Or should there be occasional empty rooms with no immediate relevance?

And, since my brother is so pedantic, is my assessment of Tiamat=sneaky sound?

I'm going to have one of the random encounters be Belkar- and one of the random found items be Mr. Scruffy. If they have Mr. Scruffy with them when they stumble upon Belkar's lair, they'll know who they're up agiasnt and gain a few precious seconds as he yells out, "Mr. Scruffy!". If they don't have the cat with them, the first thing they know is that someone is dead.


Oh certainly. Have the riddle scrawled on the wall in shiny silver letters. If they figure out the answer, they'll be on the look out for it. Heh heh.

Tiamat is a goddess of evil. She can be anything you want. Sneaky, monstrous, vengeful, deadly, whatever.

also, no, not all rooms must have something in them. especially if was populated by Tiamat, she could include whatever she wanted to punish the players, and Bahamut could be adding this and thats. Like, Belkar would be Tiamat's doing, and Mr. Scruffy would be Bahamuts. But. They can only get mr scruffy if they are kind or good in some way, namely, being nice to mr. scruffy, trying to capture him meanly or doing mean things to him will result in loosing mr. Scruffy and thus vengeful belkar. If they are nice to Mr. Scruffy, well, there you go.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-10-07, 12:01 AM
Something really creepy to do is this:

"You walk into a plain featureless room. Make a Perception check."

No matter what they roll, say "You dont see anything", and smile.

Repeat.

After about 3 of these rooms, players are cowering on the floor, trying to figure out what the heck is going on and how to defend themselves against it.

One group created a complex barricade and sat there while the goblins ran off with the treasure and burned the building down.

:smallbiggrin:

And welcome to the wonderful world of DnD! May your journey be prosperous and your players not munchkins.

bosssmiley
2009-10-07, 12:37 AM
See if you can't grab a copy of the old Planescape Torment PC game. It's D&D, and it's one of the best amnesiac self-discovery games ever created.

Welcome to the dice cult RabidEel.

RabidEel
2009-10-07, 06:21 PM
:headdesk:

Brother decided he wanted to learn more about roleplaying, and the only website that came to mind was this one... He says the only thing he remembers from this thread was the honey riddle, which I'm now going to have to replace, but gah!

Lycan 01
2009-10-07, 06:39 PM
Hey, at least your bro is trying to learn. :smalltongue: It shows he's serious about playing... and most DMs would kill for such interest from their players.


Here's a riddle I made up a long time ago.

There's an old stone wall, with a hook on it. From the hook hangs a golden pocket-watch. You can add a riddle if you want - I forgot what I'd written. :smallannoyed:

At any rate... The pocket-watch is magic. It affects time around it, and there's a small knob on the back to turn it forward or back.
-Stopping it from ticking will stop the heart of whoever turned it off. Instant-death, although a High DC Healing check to give them CPR will revive them at full health.
-Turning the watch's time forward will wear down the wall, but not destroy it. The wall becomes weak enough to break down if enough people tackle it at once. The watch will also break, since its internal springs and mechanisms rusted. The person who messed with the watch will take a penalty to their armor and/or weapon damage since their armor and/or weapon rusted.
-Turning the watch's time backwards will cause the wall to disassemble itself brick by brick, opening the path to the next room. The person who turns the watch back will actually de-age by a few years. If they started out old (40's or older), feel free to grant them an Attribute Point to Strength or Constitution. If they started out young (20 or younger), feel free to take away an Attribute Point of Strength or Constitution from them.
-Poking the watch so that it swings back and forth will hypnotize whoever made it start spinning. Feel free to make them do something stupid, like perform a strip-tease for the rest of the party, or try to eat their own foot. Or have them go crazy and try to kill their friends, or cut off their own head. You're the DM! :smallwink:



Oh, and be sure to throw in Kobolds. :smallbiggrin:

Paulus
2009-10-07, 06:42 PM
:headdesk:

Brother decided he wanted to learn more about roleplaying, and the only website that came to mind was this one... He says the only thing he remembers from this thread was the honey riddle, which I'm now going to have to replace, but gah!

His fault for ruining the fun then.
Now we switch it up. Tell your players NOT to read this thread.

Now. The honey riddle on the wall? Let them solve it. When they find the honey? and the crack? Make them have to FIGHT their way out now. Put a big nasty in the hive, sleeping. Like, GIANT bee or something along those lines. They can try and sneak past, or if they wake it, they have two options. One, try to speak to it and BOOM they find out it is an AWAKENED bee, or, they can attack. But make sure IT doesn't attack first. And upon killing it, they emerge dripping in honey, and the bee keeper admonishes them for killing a good creature like his prized bee. Then make them have a bad reputation for killing the bee and lessen their reward. And by reward I mean, if they were kind to the big bee to get out, then have the farmer give them... I dunno, lodging, maybe potions of healing, food, supplies. If they kill the bee or it looks like it will kill them, the Bee keeper intervenes and uses all those healing potions on the bee leaving the players barely alive, NO xp and a way out. Then drop the Bahamut bomb on them.

and if they read THIS message. ...PM me. And together we shall make a trap so nasty, SO terrible, SO horrible... Well, if your players are still reading right now. You. were. warned.

That help?

PersonMan
2009-10-07, 07:32 PM
There are five paths presented for escape,

-snip-


EDIT: also, feel free to let them not make search checks and try to escape via the paths. at the end of each path, if they manage to survive getting by them by some miracle, be a solid wall. And they are instantly ported back to the original room, in their current condition. And then when they begin to flip out and they STILL haven't searched enough or made spot checks, tell them they suddenly smell a wif of honey. Following it leads to the drip etc.
or if they pray to bahamut, or search thoroughly, etc.

Don't do this. This is a perfect way to annoy the -expletive- out of your players. You're basically saying "Even if you, by some miracle, solve this puzzle by any other means than the ones I present, it doesn't work." And that isn't nice.

RabidEel
2009-10-07, 08:14 PM
Again, thank you for your help here.

Okay, I've got the rudiments of a plot:

Bahamut's paladin (he was the first character they came up with, so I'm making him the main character. First come, first serve) was in charge of... an army of some sort. They were in trouble, and his friends tried to help him summon Bahamut for aid. Unfotunately, not being clerics- I think I'm going to choose his rogue and my other brother's wizard for the summoners- they messed up and summoned Tiamat instead. The paladin (lessee, sheet says he's named Mortyne) refuses to accept her help, but she goes and makes them win anyway, then asks him for payment. Mortyne doesn't want to deal with Tiamat and says he's not techincally obligated to do anything for her because he didn't ask her to help in the first place. I need to do something with the forth guy, so let's say Mortyne turned to the fighter guy for advice and the fighter guy told him to tell Tiamat where to shove it.
Tiamat loses her temper and imprisons them in her dungeon until they learn to think a little less Lawfully...

As for the exit, I'm thinking of a door with a huge, complicated lock in it. No matter how much they jiggle the lock, it won't unlock. The solution is to just open the door, because the lock never worked in the first place.
-OR-
Huge lock, doesn't open, etc... but the door is made of sturdy cardboard or very thin wood, and it can be opened by punching or cutting it.

Do deities have any weaknesses in the D&D universe? Because it occurs to me that if they have Tiamat at metaphorical gunpoint and force her to fly them out, that would count as lateral thinking, too. :smallsmile:

Lycan 01
2009-10-07, 09:24 PM
Tiamet at gunpoint? Um... I don't think they'd be able to even fathom being in that position during their first session. :smalleek:


Hm. I was going to suggest something like... The Paladin WAS a follower of Tiamet. Didn't you say there was a Cleric? Yeah, he followed Tiamet, too. As for the other two guys? They were their underlings/adventurers that raided a Tiamet shrine/worshipers who failed a mission/use your imagination. :smalltongue:

At any rate, the Paladin and Cleric failed a mission they were given by Tiamet. Perhaps wipe out a chapel of Bahamut, or something. Well, they failed. Or maybe the succeeded? Perhaps they succeeded in purging the chapel of Bahamut, only to argue amongst themselves for the glory and rewards, rather than offer them to Tiamet as ordered. (Actually, I think Tiamet encourages hoarding... :smallconfused: Hm. Nevermind, then. Although, the DM has the right to say "Meh, no she don't..." Man, I love being the DM! :smallbiggrin:) So one way or another, Tiamet got pissed and locked them all away in the Dungeon of Doom. It might not even be her dungeon... she might have just thrown them into the first hole in the dirt she found. At any rate, they wake up with no memories of who they are or how they got there.

So you've got everyone starting out at lvl 1, with only the clothes on their back. Paladin finds he's got a golden medallion of Bahamut - its a spoil from the chapel raid, but he thinks its a holy symbol of his diety, so he believes he's a devout follower of Bahamut. Cleric might be in the same boat, perhaps finding himself with a ring engraved with prayers to the Platinum Dragon. The other two guys... meh, wing it. :smalltongue:

So yeah, they think they're followers of Bahamut. So they trudge through the dungeon, figuring out traps and conquering monsters in the name of Bahamut. Then, at the very end of the dungeon, they discover the truth - they are in fact enemies of Bahamut, and they must decide if they want to earn his love or regain Tiamet's trust.


So yeah...

Let them THINK the story you posted earlier is what really happened. Let them THINK they were champions of Bahamut. When they awoke, and their mind couldn't find memories of their lives... it simply made some up to cope with the trauma of waking up as an amnesiac. Then, at the end of the dungeon, they discover the truth - those items that they had were trophies of brutal conquest! :smalleek:

In fact...

What sort of enemies do you plan to have in the dungeon? :smallconfused: Perhaps a dragon (very-weak) could lurk at the end of the dungeon, who is loyal to Bahamut. When they attack him, claiming loyalty to Bahamut as they charge... he re-educates them. Unless nobody speaks Draconic... Then after they kill him, one of them realizes to their horror that that breed of dragon follows Bahamut. At which point Tiamet appears to them in a vision, laughing her scaley butt off...




Come to think of it, I might use that whole idea myself one day. :smallbiggrin:

RabidEel
2009-10-07, 10:05 PM
Most of the enemies will be walking mushrooms, because Bro #1 hates mushrooms.

Other opponents so far include a giant swarm of mosquitoes, a giant flock of ravens (who, like V's familiar, could be distracted by shiny objects), a giant whatever-the-collective-noun-is of rats, mopey ghosts, evil children with pointy teeth, Shelob, the Black Knight and the bridge guy from Monty Python And The Holy Grail, the Auditors from Discworld, Medusa, Belkar Bitterleaf, and my own username, rabid eels. Not to mention the many monsters they could fight OR befriend. (Befriend is the better option; there are a lot of doors they won't get passed by waving pointy objects). Also there's an XP Arena, and a Face A Random Monster From The Manual room.

Paulus
2009-10-07, 11:38 PM
Don't do this. This is a perfect way to annoy the -expletive- out of your players. You're basically saying "Even if you, by some miracle, solve this puzzle by any other means than the ones I present, it doesn't work." And that isn't nice.

But that's exactly what it was meant to be. It's not a puzzle it's tiamat's punishment of hell. It's suppose to annoy them forever and ever and ever- Pain forever, and even death fails them. And if they SHOULD get by, it's still no use. Because Tiamat is evil. That's just something she would do.

Of course it all assumed Tiamat made the Dungeon. And it was based on the premise presented, which wasn't much. So I winged it. She can change the premise if she wants, or really ask what her player's backgrounds are and then work that into it somehow. But they are getting impatient so following what I had, there you go.

She can dumb it down, or change it anyway she wants, This was just what fit the required bill at the time. :3


Again, thank you for your help here.

Okay, I've got the rudiments of a plot:

Bahamut's paladin (he was the first character they came up with, so I'm making him the main character. First come, first serve) was in charge of... an army of some sort. They were in trouble, and his friends tried to help him summon Bahamut for aid. Unfotunately, not being clerics- I think I'm going to choose his rogue and my other brother's wizard for the summoners- they messed up and summoned Tiamat instead. The paladin (lessee, sheet says he's named Mortyne) refuses to accept her help, but she goes and makes them win anyway, then asks him for payment. Mortyne doesn't want to deal with Tiamat and says he's not techincally obligated to do anything for her because he didn't ask her to help in the first place. I need to do something with the forth guy, so let's say Mortyne turned to the fighter guy for advice and the fighter guy told him to tell Tiamat where to shove it.
Tiamat loses her temper and imprisons them in her dungeon until they learn to think a little less Lawfully...

As for the exit, I'm thinking of a door with a huge, complicated lock in it. No matter how much they jiggle the lock, it won't unlock. The solution is to just open the door, because the lock never worked in the first place.
-OR-
Huge lock, doesn't open, etc... but the door is made of sturdy cardboard or very thin wood, and it can be opened by punching or cutting it.

Do deities have any weaknesses in the D&D universe? Because it occurs to me that if they have Tiamat at metaphorical gunpoint and force her to fly them out, that would count as lateral thinking, too. :smallsmile:

Well really they should all be the main character, it's a party after all. But since you only have two players, I'd make at least TWO of their characters main players. That is, one of each.

Also, Bahamut would intercede on his followers behalf before Tiamat could do anything bad to them. Well IMHO, but you can do whatever you want really. You ARE the Dm. Also... Level 1 characters really can't do anything to Tiamat... unless you made it so. Like, if Bahamut granted them a holly relic which could ward her off... but classically speaking only Bahamut can defeat her, but... much of this is treading on your DM powers. Remember, you can do whatever you want. You can have them Kill Tiamat all you want really. It's your game after all. so...

really we can suggest and advise all we want, but you can take or leave any of it or change it all you like. Rule 0.

jiriku
2009-10-08, 11:28 AM
Deities can certainly have an achilles heel if you want them to. Perhaps Tiamat cannot stand sunlight reflected by a sacred mirror that is a relic of Bahamut. Players could stand her down with the mirror and have her at their mercy...but woe to them when the sun goes down.

Perhaps Tiamat cannot enter an area, because it is a consecrated temple of Bahamut. Yet the temple contains something she greatly desires...such as...honey. She'll make any promises if the players will get the honey for her. Of course, as a chaotic deity, she's certainly not trustworthy.