Change Face [spell]

[Lysander]

This could be a very useful spell. Does something like it exist already?

Change Face
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: One standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Change Face permanently alters a creature's body to a different form of the same species, gender, and age. Beyond appearance and voice no other aspect of the character is altered. This spell cannot remove or restore body parts. Copying the appearance of another person requires a disguise check to determine success.

Material
Semi-precious stones worth 1,000gp

[FrostBringer]

I like it, but seems a little overpowered for a seventh level spell...

[DracoDei]

I was just thinking there should be something like this...
And given that True Seeing still reveals the true appearance, I don't see it as overpowered at all...

[FrostBringer]

Dammit, I meant UNDER powered, not over. While a nifty spell, doesn't confer a great enough benefit to justify a 7th level

[Octopus Jack]

Yeah seems to be quite underpowered for the high reaches of 7th level

[DracoDei]

Dammit, I meant UNDER powered, not over. While a nifty spell, doesn't confer a great enough benefit to justify a 7th level

I THOUGHT that might be what happened.

And it probably is...

[Lapak]

I was just thinking there should be something like this...
And given that True Seeing still reveals the true appearance, I don't see it as overpowered at all...It's an instantaneous effect. How would True Seeing see through it?

Interesting idea, I'll say. Useful for crime lords and witness protection programs. :smallsmile:

[Lysander]

It's an instantaneous effect. How would True Seeing see through it?

Interesting idea, I'll say. Useful for crime lords and witness protection programs. :smallsmile:

True Seeing reveals the original form of transmuted objects even after the spell has ended.

It's also useful for coups and espionage. Take the form of a general or king permanently to seize power, or be subtler by replacing a trusted courtier someone less likely to be immediately discovered as false.

As a permanent effect you can use on anybody it should be high level but seventh might be too high. Maybe it should be sixth level instead?

[Lapak]

True Seeing reveals the original form of transmuted objects even after the spell has ended.Huh. The spell description certainly implies that, but it seems to run counter to the idea of what an instantaneous effect is supposed to be. Baneful Polymorph and Polymorph Any Object are both Permanent in duration rather than instantaneous, which also makes them removable. Seeing through an instantaneous change strikes me as odd - would someone under True Seeing see someone who had been burned by a Fireball as if they had not been?

You may well be right by RAW, but I'd probably rule differently if I introduced this to my game. (That, or I'd change the duration to Permanent.)

[Lysander]

Huh. The spell description certainly implies that, but it seems to run counter to the idea of what an instantaneous effect is supposed to be. Baneful Polymorph and Polymorph Any Object are both Permanent in duration rather than instantaneous, which also makes them removable. Seeing through an instantaneous change strikes me as odd - would someone under True Seeing see someone who had been burned by a Fireball as if they had not been?

You may well be right by RAW, but I'd probably rule differently if I introduced this to my game. (That, or I'd change the duration to Permanent.)

The idea of True Seeing is it sees through any form of visual trickery caused by magic. So whether it's an illusion or a transmutation if magic is trying to fool your vision it won't work. Someone injured by a fireball isn't a trick, they're actually injured. Duration doesn't matter either, it's just whether magic is being directly used to fool your vision. For example, Stone to Flesh is also instantaneous and True Seeing would reveal that the statue was once a living person.

[Lapak]

The idea of True Seeing is it sees through any form of visual trickery caused by magic. So whether it's an illusion or a transmutation if magic is trying to fool your vision it won't work. Someone injured by a fireball isn't a trick, they're actually injured.But... that's what an instantaneous effect means. It's a real change, there's no ongoing magic to sustain it. That's the whole basis for instantaneous conjurations and such not being stopped by SR, for example...

Actually, you know what? That's always bothered me anyway, and if I object to Acid Arrow bypassing SR I can hardly object to True Seeing overriding instantaneous conjurations. So I guess I agree with you after all. :smalltongue: