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Silverraptor
2009-10-07, 03:49 PM
Can someone show me where I may find the OOTS in the Dragon Magazine comic? Or where I may find the magazine? I have never heard of it until I saw it mentioned in here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html). I've been wanting to find out what happens to the OOTS in there and the suspense is killing me.

Thank you.

TheBST
2009-10-07, 04:02 PM
Don't think there's anywhere, and I think it's because of a brouhaha over copyright.

Forbiddenwar
2009-10-07, 04:36 PM
If you are in a major american city, you MIGHT find them in a library. Otherwise, until Rich and Wizards settle the copyright issue, we are out of luck.

LuisDantas
2009-10-07, 05:13 PM
Maybe you can get at least some of them from the publisher itself

http://paizo.com/dragon/products/issues

or from some sort of specialty store, such as Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Magazine-359-Final-Issue/dp/B000VO0VLS/ref=pd_rhf_shvl_3

From Wikipedia, it looks like the very last issue of 2005 and all 2006-2007 ones are likely to have OOtS strips.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-10-07, 06:48 PM
I remember reading an old quote from Rich somewhere (don't remember where, I think I found the link in the Class and Level Geekery thread) where he said he wouldn't be re-releasing them on their own, instead putting them into a different book.

Shpadoinkle
2009-10-07, 08:36 PM
I have the issues with them. They're not related to the plot in any way, they're just one-off jokes about D&D.

Silverraptor
2009-10-07, 08:39 PM
I have the issues with them. They're not related to the plot in any way, they're just one-off jokes about D&D.

Still, if Rich did it, they ought to be good.

ref
2009-10-07, 11:56 PM
How many, Shpadoinkle?

Me, being from Old World, and since it was imported in small quantities so I'd probably miss them, didn't bother to collect them. But still I'd like to see them.

Nimrod's Son
2009-10-07, 11:59 PM
There are twenty-one strips altogether. The first is only four regular panels long, in a vertical row, but the rest are full-page.

Katana_Geldar
2009-10-08, 01:26 AM
I need to talk to my DM, he gets Dragon.

Tass
2009-10-08, 02:47 AM
I have the issues with them. They're not related to the plot in any way, they're just one-off jokes about D&D.

Of course they are not related to the plot. Having plot points in a place few people are able to read wouldn't be very smart.

But they are hilarious. It's like twenty extra strips of early dungeon crawling fools.

lothos
2009-10-08, 05:01 AM
I've seen 5 of the 21, by borrowing old issues of Dragon. But sadly they are hard to get now. Try asking friends who have been playing D&D for a few years, that's what I did.

I posted a question back here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7022798&post7022798) some months ago asking if there was any legal and copyright respecting way to get them.

The answer was that there are copyright issues to do with re-publishing them. Since there are only 21, it wouldn't be enough for a book on it's own.

The ones I have seen are not related in any way to the main plot. As Belkar said in strip 475 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html), he isn't sure if they are the same continuity.

Just want to say - I'd buy something with the dragon strips in it... I'd even pay for a compilation of just those strips.

Katana_Geldar
2009-10-08, 05:13 AM
Do Wizards have backissues you can peruse online? I am considering getting DND Insider.

hamishspence
2009-10-08, 01:33 PM
There are twenty-one strips altogether. The first is only four regular panels long, in a vertical row, but the rest are full-page.


Technically, it's the second- January 2006, issue 339. The magazine has
"New Order of the stick comic" on the front.

The first was December 2005, issue 338, and is a full page strip. But is not announced as "New comic" oddly enough.

(There are 22 strips total, counting the short one.)

It was the Dragon Magazine strips that led me to OoTS in the first place.

Optimystik
2009-10-08, 01:40 PM
All I have to say is... #@!#%*$! to lawyers...

Seconding the DDI question.

Silverraptor
2009-10-08, 01:41 PM
Seconding the DDI question.

I take it you want to see the comics too?:smallconfused:

Optimystik
2009-10-08, 01:45 PM
I take it you want to see the comics too?:smallconfused:

Yes, I've never read Dragon Magazine but I would for the strip. But I'm unsure of D&D Insider gives you access to them or not.

deworde
2009-10-08, 01:49 PM
Aren't some of them in Dungeon Crawlin' Fools? I remember reading in there about Belkar's Gourmet abilities.

Porthos
2009-10-08, 01:50 PM
Yes, I've never read Dragon Magazine but I would for the strip. But I'm unsure of D&D Insider gives you access to them or not.

As far as I know, the Dragon Mag issues that are online do not have the OotS strips in them.

As for any copyright complications... I honestly don't know where that notion got started. IIRC, Rich holds the copyright on them and can publish them whenever and however he wants. He just has to figure out how to publish a 22 page thingymabob. It's too short, really, to be pusblished on it's own. And it might be too large to stick on a compilation book.

But I am sure that Rich will figure something out sooner or later. :smallwink:


Aren't some of them in Dungeon Crawlin' Fools? I remember reading in there about Belkar's Gourmet abilities.

No, DCF predates the Dungeon strips by a good long while. What was in DCF was a throwaway gag about how Belkar doesn't travel with Iron Rations and instead has gourmet meals to eat.

hamishspence
2009-10-08, 01:51 PM
Aren't some of them in Dungeon Crawlin' Fools? I remember reading in there about Belkar's Gourmet abilities.

Those are bonus strips- not the same thing. So far, nothing from Dragon has appeared in an OoTS book.

Grey Watcher
2009-10-08, 01:56 PM
Unfortunately, a DDI subscription only (so far) gets you access to issues that came out after the magazines went digital (namely Dungeon 155 and Dragon 364 onward). There are no archives of the old printed magazines. So, unfortunately, a DDI subscription will not get you access to those 22 issues of OOTS. :(

Porthos
2009-10-08, 02:02 PM
I posted a question back here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7022798&post7022798) some months ago asking if there was any legal and copyright respecting way to get them.

The answer was that there are copyright issues to do with re-publishing them. Since there are only 21, it wouldn't be enough for a book on it's own.

I just want to re-iterate something here. As far as I know, there are no copyright complications stopping Rich from republishing the Dragon-OotS comics.

IIRC, what is going on is that since Rich holds the copyrights he didn't allow them to be republished for the online pdf version of the Dragon Magazines published by Pazio. He wants to publish them on his own schedule.

<<<EDIT:::>>> At least thats what I presume to be his reasoning. I obviously can't speak for Rich when it comes to all of his rationales for why OotS doesn't appear in the PDF versions of Dragon Mag.
<<<EDIT:::>>>

So there might be a bit of "telephone game" going on here. :smallwink:

Now it is true that I haven't read each and every single post that Rich has ever made on this board. So it is possible that I missed a post somewhere where he said he couldn't publish Dragon-OotS until copyright complications were sorted out...

But I doubt it. :smalltongue:

No, as near as I can tell, the only thing stopping Rich from publishing the Dragon-OotS strips is the small number that there are in existence.

PS:

If one wants to be conspiracy minded....

(Page count NOT including Bonus Strips, Commentary, Chapter Splash Pages, etc
WaXPs: 242 pages of "online comics"
Book 4: 226 pages of "online comics"

242 - 226 = 16

If Rich wanted to, he could make a book that was 6 pages longer than WaXP and then include all of the Dragon OotS strips.

Just Sayin'. :smallcool:

Optimystik
2009-10-08, 02:05 PM
Unfortunately, a DDI subscription only (so far) gets you access to issues that came out after the magazines went digital (namely Dungeon 155 and Dragon 364 onward). There are no archives of the old printed magazines. So, unfortunately, a DDI subscription will not get you access to those 22 issues of OOTS. :(

Thanks for the heads up. Sigh.

Forbiddenwar
2009-10-08, 03:22 PM
Actually, Porthos, have you seen his contract with dragon Magazine? That is the only way I know to determine copywrite ownership in cases of this.

In most cases like this, (magazine and journals) the publisher, not the creator, owns the copyright of the piece published. That is the standard contract. Now rich, if he had the funding and the power, could have renegotiated, but that is almost unheard of.

Porthos
2009-10-08, 03:54 PM
Actually, Porthos, have you seen his contract with dragon Magazine? That is the only way I know to determine copywrite ownership in cases of this.

No, but I heard him say that he plans on publishing it in some form. :smallwink: Combine that with the fact that "due to licensing issues" the OotS comics aren't on the PDF versions leads me to believe that he negotiated things so he is in control of his own work.

Well that, and the almost fanatical way he views his rights when it comes to his intellectual property. :smalltongue:


In most cases like this, (magazine and journals) the publisher, not the creator, owns the copyright of the piece published. That is the standard contract. Now rich, if he had the funding and the power, could have renegotiated, but that is almost unheard of.

Well, Phil Foglio might have a word to say about that since he can freely publish all of his What's New content as he sees fit. And this was long before he was a Big Shot(ish) artist.

Now that I think about it, I'm fairly sure that John Kovalick of Dork Tower fame and Aaron Williams of Nodwick have been republishing their stuff (though I don't know all of the details there, naturally). So the precedence is certainly there where it comes to material first printed in Dragon Mag.

Also, there is a bit of background here you might want to know about. When Dragon Mag published its 250 issue CD compilation a long time back, the comic creators whose work was included were incensed that their permission wasn't granted/weren't given royalites (or something similar, I don't recall the exact details) before republishment. Lead to a very loud stink behind the scenes, from what I understand. No idea what actually happened, one way or the other, because of it. But I do know that there was a lot of anger at the people who were the then current publishers of Dragon Mag.

So it would not surprise me at all to find out that Rich had rights over his work.

Now it is true, as you say, that he might not. But what I AM saying is that people shouldn't be running around saying that Rich can't republish this material unless, oh I dunno, Rich himself says so. :smalltongue:

Katana_Geldar
2009-10-08, 04:14 PM
The only way a publisher can hold the rights to a work belonging originally to someone else is if the owner actually signs it over to them, and given Rich's nature about copyright I doubt that he would do that. Rich merely grants permission for his work to be used but still retains the rights.

Sorry to hear about DDI though :smallannoyed:

Maybe Rich can give us an answer in the next update.

Forbiddenwar
2009-10-08, 04:58 PM
The only way a publisher can hold the rights to a work belonging originally to someone else is if the owner actually signs it over to them.

This happens in 99% of cases. In order to have anything published you pretty much have to sign your copyright over to the publishers. At least when it comes to printing anything in magazines.

Porthos
2009-10-08, 05:15 PM
This happens in 99% of cases. In order to have anything published you pretty much have to sign your copyright over to the publishers. At least when it comes to printing anything in magazines.

I just pulled out a random Dragon Magazine and looked for myself:


2007 Rich Burlew Read more Order of the Stick online at www.GiantITP.com.

No mention whatsoever of Dragon Mag holding an . And I checked the boiler-plate at the beginning of the magazine, and I saw nothing that suggested that Rich's copyright was being overridden.

Sure seems to me that Rich has the copyright in question. :smallwink:

Le Piaf
2009-10-08, 05:17 PM
uhhhh how to put this.. there IS way to find them even if you don't have opportunity to buy Dragon magazines.:smallwink:

Forbiddenwar
2009-10-08, 05:47 PM
I just pulled out a random Dragon Magazine and looked for myself:



No mention whatsoever of Dragon Mag holding an . And I checked the boiler-plate at the beginning of the magazine, and I saw nothing that suggested that Rich's copyright was being overridden.

Sure seems to me that Rich has the copyright in question. :smallwink:

Okay. Thank-you. I was completely wrong and you were completely right.
You're right then. There is NO copyright issue, and such the only thing keeping from Rich including them online or in a book is himself. Which means if we are patient enough and, perhaps, vocal enough, he will do so.

Roland St. Jude
2009-10-08, 05:55 PM
Sheriff of Moddingham: This thread is the perfect mix of bad legal advice, implied suggestions to do an end run around copyright, and people speculating, however cautiously, about Rich's intentions. Perfect for locking, I mean. Actually, y'all have done well to not cross any lines, but it's headed that way. If you want to see the comics, there are two choices: 1) locate Dragon Mags; 2) wait for them to be published in some other form.