PDA

View Full Version : psi crystals. How many can you have at one time?



Mystic Muse
2009-10-08, 04:15 AM
for some reason I can't find this information in either the expanded psionics handbook or the SRD. How many psi crystals is a psion allowed to have simultaneously?

BooNL
2009-10-08, 04:16 AM
Taking a wild guess: one?

sonofzeal
2009-10-08, 04:17 AM
Here you go (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psicrystalAffinity). It's a feat, that doesn't say you can take it more than once. So, erm, one.

Mystic Muse
2009-10-08, 04:18 AM
okay. Just making sure.

You know. it doesn't say you can't take it more than once.:smallbiggrin:

(yeah I know you can only take it once unless it says otherwise.)

Vizzerdrix
2009-10-08, 04:19 AM
Funny. I could have sworn I saw a feat or class that let you have more than one someplace. Hmm...

taltamir
2009-10-08, 04:19 AM
a psycrystal is a FAMILIAR for a psion... it is almost verbatim a familiar...

The "take psycrystal" feat is similar to the "take familiar" feat... which is available to casters who normall don't get familiars (EX: bard)

Fishy
2009-10-08, 04:19 AM
One. However, there's not penalty for losing them, and they cost no time or money or xp to make, so you can smash it with a hammer and get a new one pretty much whenever you like, RAW.

Mystic Muse
2009-10-08, 04:27 AM
One. However, there's not penalty for losing them, and they cost no time or money or xp to make, so you can smash it with a hammer and get a new one pretty much whenever you like, RAW.

that is an advantage

Autopsibiofeeder
2009-10-08, 04:31 AM
Funny. I could have sworn I saw a feat or class that let you have more than one someplace. Hmm...

Perhaps you mean [Improved Psicrystal], a feat that allows you to implant an extra personality into your psicrystal?

taltamir
2009-10-08, 04:33 AM
that is an advantage

everything in the psion is an advantage... its like arcane casters, only with all of the suck removed (being able to break the game does not exclude them from having plenty of suck... vanacian system, cloth, 4HD, familiar penalties, and other terrible stereotypes being it)


Perhaps you mean [Improved Psicrystal], a feat that allows you to implant an extra personality into your psicrystal?

Yap, one psycristal, multiple... bonuses?... bonii?

sonofzeal
2009-10-08, 04:47 AM
everything in the psion is an advantage... its like arcane casters, only with all of the suck removed (being able to break the game does not exclude them from having plenty of suck... vanacian system, cloth, 4HD, familiar penalties, and other terrible stereotypes being it)
Well, to be fair they lose a lot of the win, too. No spellbook expansion, powers don't scale with your level nearly as well unless you pay to augment them, way smaller potential power list.

JeenLeen
2009-10-08, 08:11 AM
I thought there was a PrC that enabled you to get a second Psicrystal? I could be--and as no one else has mentioned it, guess I am--mistaken.


IIRC, that races from Faerun or Eberron that has the impact of the Quori upon them allow them to create a sort of double psicrystal. It is still one crystal, but it has two personality aspects (and thus two bonsues) and maybe some other abilities as a reflection of their two-part soul or mind.
My knowledge of the campaign settings is rather low.

deuxhero
2009-10-08, 08:29 AM
Infinite. Psycrystals get hit dice, thus feats. Have them take that one to get power points, then obtain psycrystal, repeat for everything along the line. The youngest have very low hp, but otherwise cool.

JeenLeen
2009-10-08, 08:35 AM
Infinite. Psycrystals get hit dice, thus feats. Have them take that one to get power points, then obtain psycrystal, repeat for everything along the line. The youngest have very low hp, but otherwise cool.


Prerequisites: Manifester level 1st.

I have heard some debate that this trick doesn't work. Can the Psicrystal get manifester levels so that it qualifies for Psicrystal Affinity, or does having power points give you an innate manifester level of 1?

ZeroNumerous
2009-10-08, 08:38 AM
I have heard some debate that this trick doesn't work. Can the Psicrystal get manifester levels so that it qualifies for Psicrystal Affinity, or does having power points give you an innate manifester level of 1?

There is no debate involved (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#wildTalent).

JeenLeen
2009-10-08, 08:41 AM
There is no debate involved (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#wildTalent).

I see that Wild Talent gives you a power point reserve and makes you a psionic character, but that doesn't seem to fit the prereq of a manifester level, as required by Psicrystal Affinity.

Is there a rule stating that having power points equals having manifester level 1?

ZeroNumerous
2009-10-08, 08:44 AM
I see that Wild Talent gives you a power point reserve and makes you a psionic character, but that doesn't seem to fit the prereq of a manifester level, as required by Psicrystal Affinity.


Your latent power of psionics flares to life, conferring upon you the designation of a psionic character. As a psionic character, you gain a reserve of 2 power points and can take psionic feats, metapsionic feats, and psionic item creation feats.

Emphasis mine.

This feat specifically allows you to take psionic feats, the Psicrystal feat is a psionic feat, ergo you can take the Psicrystal feat.

JeenLeen
2009-10-08, 09:00 AM
This feat specifically allows you to take psionic feats, the Psicrystal feat is a psionic feat, ergo you can take the Psicrystal feat.



Psionic feats are available only to characters and creatures with the ability to manifest powers. (In other words, they either have a power point reserve or have psi-like abilities.)


It sounds to me like Wild Talent enables you to take psionic feats, which a non-manifester usually cannot take. For example, Psionic Dodge or Aligned Attack.
But nothing in the text states that you can ignore prerequisites.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-08, 09:01 AM
Not all psionic feats have a Manifester Level requirement.

For example, Speed of Thought requires Wis 13. It's not enough to be eligible for Psionic feats, you must also have wis 13. Same with this.


Now, Practiced Manifester will give a psicrystal manifester levels.

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-08, 09:21 AM
Emphasis mine.

This feat specifically allows you to take psionic feats, the Psicrystal feat is a psionic feat, ergo you can take the Psicrystal feat.


Prerequisites

Manifester level 1st.

Having a PP reserve doesn't give you a Manifester Level of 1st. Hidden Talent does. And having a PP reserve qualifies the Psi Crystal for feats that don't require an ML or the ability to manifest powers of X level. Once its Wis and Concentration ranks are high enough, it can take Psionic Meditation; but unless it has the ability to manifest powers it can never take Psicrystal Affinity.

Optimystik
2009-10-08, 09:45 AM
everything in the psion is an advantage... its like arcane casters, only with all of the suck removed (being able to break the game does not exclude them from having plenty of suck... vanacian system, cloth, 4HD, familiar penalties, and other terrible stereotypes being it)

Psion advantages:


No somatic or material components. (can cast while grappled, pinned etc. w/ concentration check, and can cast unhindered in full plate with the right proficiencies.)
Gets bonus feats like a Wizard does.
Can relearn spells more easily than a Sorcerer/Bard thanks to Psychic Reformation.
Can self-heal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/vigor.htm) more easily than most arcane casters without losing blasty-ness.
Can cast powers straight from another willing psion's mind (w/ psicraft check.)
No "weave" or similar external power source, and thus can't have their powers turned off by a deity unless that being drops a null psionics/catapsi field on them.
Bonus class skills based on specialization (including Autohypnosis, a powerful skill. )

Psion Disadvantages:


Have to augment powers to make them scale rather than having them scale automatically.
Low powers known (same drawback as sorcerer.)
Power points are easier to lose/be drained than spell slots.
Specializing (mandatory) bars other specialist paths.
Using metamagic and various other feats requires move actions (full-round actions without PM, making it all but mandatory.)
Arcane casters get goodies (like reserve feats) that psions don't.
No illusion and few conjuration spells, two of the most powerful schools.
Less powers that work on teammates/party.


Erudite is the best of both worlds, and overcomes many of the disadvantages here with few drawbacks thanks to Spell to Power.

Did 4e combine monks and psionics? It makes a lot of sense to do so, they have a great deal in commo fluffwise and both sides could benefit from a pairing like that.

SydneyLosstarot
2009-10-08, 09:58 AM
Infinite. Psycrystals get hit dice, thus feats.
i've never come across a ruling that says psicrystals advance in Hit Dice.
do they?

Gralamin
2009-10-08, 10:04 AM
Having a PP reserve doesn't give you a Manifester Level of 1st. Hidden Talent does. And having a PP reserve qualifies the Psi Crystal for feats that don't require an ML or the ability to manifest powers of X level. Once its Wis and Concentration ranks are high enough, it can take Psionic Meditation; but unless it has the ability to manifest powers it can never take Psicrystal Affinity.

You also need a way for your Psi-crystals to have Psionic class / Psion or wilder (Depending where you look) hit dice. Though, arguably, having "As Master" may grant them that, without any of the associated benefits.

Starbuck_II
2009-10-08, 10:14 AM
i've never come across a ruling that says psicrystals advance in Hit Dice.
do they?

Because it is manifest in the desciption.



A psicrystalís characteristics depend on its master. Its Hit Dice are equal to its masterís Hit Dice... its hit points are equal to half its masterís, and its saving throw bonuses are the same as its masterís.


This means it has HD =yours. But it uses 1/2 your hp instead of its own (which would be higher at low levels). So at 3 HD, they should gain a feat since they gain HD which entitles them as a creature to have a feat (since that is the standard rule).

Familiars do not gain HD, they gain pretend HD for calculatuions of spells and effects like sleep (only affects 4 HD). So Familiar cannot gain feats from you leveling.

But yeah, it is pretty much impossible to give as Psicrystal a manifester level. Even Hidden Talent doesn't give a real manifester level.

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-08, 10:28 AM
i've never come across a ruling that says psicrystals advance in Hit Dice.
do they?

It's actually in the text for a Psicrystal monster:


Psicrystals (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/psicrystal.htm)Hit Dice: As masterís HD (hp Ĺ masterís)


So every time your HD increases, the Psicrystal gets the same HD size (but only half of the HP you got).


Edit: Gibbles are not faster than a ninja.

SydneyLosstarot
2009-10-08, 12:31 PM
This means it has HD =yours. But it uses 1/2 your hp instead of its own (which would be higher at low levels). So at 3 HD, they should gain a feat since they gain HD which entitles them as a creature to have a feat (since that is the standard rule).

Familiars do not gain HD, they gain pretend HD for calculatuions of spells and effects like sleep (only affects 4 HD). So Familiar cannot gain feats from you leveling.

But yeah, it is pretty much impossible to give as Psicrystal a manifester level. Even Hidden Talent doesn't give a real manifester level.

oh Gods, how cheesy is that?

well, aside from the fact that a small crystal with legs can choose few feats to benefit from

Fishy
2009-10-08, 12:40 PM
You'd be surprised. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#mountedCombat)

And as long as you are wearing your pet rock as a hat, Martial Stance: Island Of Blades may or may not give you permanent flanking.

taltamir
2009-10-08, 03:30 PM
there is a reason why i said wizards can break the game more easily... when I am saying the psions don't suck I am referring to mechanics and their relationship to fun play. Rather then just raw power. sure its nice to know you can eventually break the game as a wizard, but its not fun to break the game, and its not fun to try to survive to the point. I hate the vanacian system of casting with every ounce of my being.

sonofzeal
2009-10-08, 03:33 PM
there is a reason why i said wizards can break the game more easily... when I am saying the psions don't suck I am referring to mechanics and their relationship to fun play. Rather then just raw power. sure its nice to know you can eventually break the game as a wizard, but its not fun to break the game, and its not fun to try to survive to the point. I hate the vanacian system of casting with every ounce of my being.
I hear you, man. Down with Vancian!

Stegyre
2009-10-08, 03:49 PM
Emphasis mine.

This feat specifically allows you to take psionic feats, the Psicrystal feat is a psionic feat, ergo you can take the Psicrystal feat.
By RAW, this does not work.
Neither Wild Talent nor Hidden Talent (mentioned after the quoted post) will satisfy the requirement.

Psicrystal Affinity has the prerequisite "Manifester Level First."

While Wild Talent gives the entity power points and qualifies it to take psionic feats, that does not mean it automatically fulfills all OTHER requirements for those feats. Otherwise, str 8 characters could take Psionic Fist, etc. (In fact, there would be no point in any psionic feat mentioning any prerequisite, as the only prerequisite, in this unworkable interpretation, would be in the feat type: "[Psionic]").

Similarly, Hidden Talent, while it gives both power points and a first-level power, does not grant a manifester level. The feat description is explicit: "If you have no psioinic class levels, you are considered a 1st-level manifester when manifesting this power. If you have psionic class levels, you can manifest the power at the highest manifester level you have attained. (This is not a manifester leve, and it does not add to any manifester levels gained by takeing psionic classes.)"

As Psicrystals cannot take class levels, they will never have a manifester level, and cannot qualify for the Psicrystale Affinity feat.

I'm fine with doing wonky things with psionic feats. (My favorite is still the Ardent + Practiced Manifester.) But this idea simply does not work.

Stegyre
2009-10-08, 03:51 PM
And as long as you are wearing your pet rock as a hat, Martial Stance: Island Of Blades may or may not give you permanent flanking.Only if your psicrystal has manifested its ectopic legs and is mobile: you must be able to move to utilize any maneuver or stance. RAW ToB.

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-08, 04:12 PM
Only if your psicrystal has manifested its ectopic legs and is mobile: you must be able to move to utilize any maneuver or stance. RAW ToB.

A Fly speed works.