deaincaelo

2009-10-10, 02:34 PM

Extra-planer and extra-dimensional spaces:

This is perhaps one of that hardest parts of the game to explain in a consistent manner. Everyone knows you can't put a portable hole in a bag of holding, but no one knows exactly why. Previous editions attempted to simplify the system- and generally creating a widespread lack of knowledge on what happens, why, and when. For this reason I'll go into a semi-detailed explanation of what and why. If that is too long for your game, then go by the simple approximation, “storage can't be put in storage, everything else goes.”

Now, lets start with definitions of each.

An extra-planer space is one that does not exist on the prime material plane. This includes other planes, demiplanes, pocketplanes, and some bags of holding. Some? I'll go into that later. The laws of physics need not apply in extra-planer spaces and are determined by the creator at the time of the creation. Hence, almost all extra-planer spaces accessible from the prime material (directly or indirectly) have near-identical physics from the prime material itself. The most common deviation is in the matter of extra planer storage. These spaces most ofter have fewer dimensions than the prime material for ease of construction and cost. The significance of this will become clear shortly.

Extra dimensional spaces exist wholly on the prime material plane. These spaces have been literally folded into 1 or 2 dimensions. Unless noted otherwise, extra dimensional spaces do not maintain the weight of what is contained therein, as it literally exists at right angles to reality. This does not negate gravity within the extra dimensional space- it simply moves it out of the way.

So, why the dire consequences when you combine extra dimensional or extra planer spaces? The short answer is that it doesn't always. If portable holes and bags of holding universally exploded every time someone jumped into a rope trick or took a jaunt to an elemental plane then no sane adventurer would saddle themselves with the deathtraps. Extra dimensional spaces that are closed and contain negligible weight never trigger these consequences.

So why do they sometimes have dire consequences? There is a complex interaction of space, time, and gravity whenever you fold reality. While complex interactions of multiple spacetime distortions with varying sign is best left to your local theoretical physicist, the various permutations can be easily simplified for game mechanics.

Extra dimensional spaces put into each other cancel out a small portion of reality. Combining two extra dimensional spaces results in a rift- a temporary hole to the next plane over that closes itself instantly. On a plane that has infinite size in at least one direction, such as the prime material, this sucks approximately a 10' chunk of reality away with no other effects. Size may vary with the size of the effect. On a stable pocket plane, extra planer space, or demiplane with non infinite size and three dimensions (such as a personal sub-plane) it also decreases the size of the space by the amount removed. If combined, opened, or stored in a non infinite extra planer space with fewer than three dimensions then the entire extra planer space and extra dimensional spaces are destroyed in the rift. Extra dimensional spaces that are closed and contain negligible weight never trigger these consequences, as the portion of reality canceled is negligible and the space is still neatly folded into 1 or 2 dimensions.

Whew! And we haven't even started on bags of holding. Let's dive in.

What are bags of holding? Traditionally, these are extra planer spaces that have a certain dimensional space up, left, right, forward, and backward used to store items. It's traditionally accessed through a small portal in the mouth and can be pierced from within or without. Did you notice it has no down? The portable hole now exists in more dimensions then the reality it is residing on. That means a portable hole opens a rift inside the bag when they are combined (with the exception above) and destroys both the bag and the portable hole. But wait. The space inside the bag doesn't exist on the prime material per se. What happens to the unfortunate adventurer? The portal remains, albeit unstable, to the dimension that the rift tears through to. For a split instant this forms a gate. This does not decrease the size of the plane, but otherwise acts as a rift. additionally, two way travel is theoretically possible for a gate but not a rift. It is highly unlikely due to the short duration of the effect.

Other bags of holding are made that simply reduce weight and space. These are extra dimensional spaces and use the normal rules for extra dimensional spaces. The weight reduction can be any fixed percent up to 100. This decreases the crafting cost accordingly.

While talking about rifts, you'll notice I didn't mention the rope trick. Stationary extra dimensional spaces are effectively “unfolded” and do not normally count in terms of rifts or other disasters. Therefore, bringing any sort of storage into a stationary stable space will never cause a rift unless that space is moved or “folded.” However, there is a cumulative per dimension chance that two of the “folded” spaces will line up. This makes a “hole” in the space, causing gravity to empty one space into the other. This will always empty the smaller space into the larger.

The last question to address is what are these portals? Portals are extra planer interfaces. The energies used to make a stable hole between dimensions are very similar to extra dimensional spaces, albeit more dangerous. Portals always rupture extra planer spaces with fewer then 3 dimensions (such as bags of holding) and portable extra dimensional spaces even if closed. They do not generally rupture planes, demiplanes, pocket planes, or stationary extra dimensional spaces.

We now have our first generalizable rules:

when you add too many dimensions together, it forms a small hole in reality- a rift.

extra dimensional spaces are additive.

spaces can only hold as many dimensions as exist in it.

Have fun and don't tear too many holes in reality!

(critique welcome)

This is perhaps one of that hardest parts of the game to explain in a consistent manner. Everyone knows you can't put a portable hole in a bag of holding, but no one knows exactly why. Previous editions attempted to simplify the system- and generally creating a widespread lack of knowledge on what happens, why, and when. For this reason I'll go into a semi-detailed explanation of what and why. If that is too long for your game, then go by the simple approximation, “storage can't be put in storage, everything else goes.”

Now, lets start with definitions of each.

An extra-planer space is one that does not exist on the prime material plane. This includes other planes, demiplanes, pocketplanes, and some bags of holding. Some? I'll go into that later. The laws of physics need not apply in extra-planer spaces and are determined by the creator at the time of the creation. Hence, almost all extra-planer spaces accessible from the prime material (directly or indirectly) have near-identical physics from the prime material itself. The most common deviation is in the matter of extra planer storage. These spaces most ofter have fewer dimensions than the prime material for ease of construction and cost. The significance of this will become clear shortly.

Extra dimensional spaces exist wholly on the prime material plane. These spaces have been literally folded into 1 or 2 dimensions. Unless noted otherwise, extra dimensional spaces do not maintain the weight of what is contained therein, as it literally exists at right angles to reality. This does not negate gravity within the extra dimensional space- it simply moves it out of the way.

So, why the dire consequences when you combine extra dimensional or extra planer spaces? The short answer is that it doesn't always. If portable holes and bags of holding universally exploded every time someone jumped into a rope trick or took a jaunt to an elemental plane then no sane adventurer would saddle themselves with the deathtraps. Extra dimensional spaces that are closed and contain negligible weight never trigger these consequences.

So why do they sometimes have dire consequences? There is a complex interaction of space, time, and gravity whenever you fold reality. While complex interactions of multiple spacetime distortions with varying sign is best left to your local theoretical physicist, the various permutations can be easily simplified for game mechanics.

Extra dimensional spaces put into each other cancel out a small portion of reality. Combining two extra dimensional spaces results in a rift- a temporary hole to the next plane over that closes itself instantly. On a plane that has infinite size in at least one direction, such as the prime material, this sucks approximately a 10' chunk of reality away with no other effects. Size may vary with the size of the effect. On a stable pocket plane, extra planer space, or demiplane with non infinite size and three dimensions (such as a personal sub-plane) it also decreases the size of the space by the amount removed. If combined, opened, or stored in a non infinite extra planer space with fewer than three dimensions then the entire extra planer space and extra dimensional spaces are destroyed in the rift. Extra dimensional spaces that are closed and contain negligible weight never trigger these consequences, as the portion of reality canceled is negligible and the space is still neatly folded into 1 or 2 dimensions.

Whew! And we haven't even started on bags of holding. Let's dive in.

What are bags of holding? Traditionally, these are extra planer spaces that have a certain dimensional space up, left, right, forward, and backward used to store items. It's traditionally accessed through a small portal in the mouth and can be pierced from within or without. Did you notice it has no down? The portable hole now exists in more dimensions then the reality it is residing on. That means a portable hole opens a rift inside the bag when they are combined (with the exception above) and destroys both the bag and the portable hole. But wait. The space inside the bag doesn't exist on the prime material per se. What happens to the unfortunate adventurer? The portal remains, albeit unstable, to the dimension that the rift tears through to. For a split instant this forms a gate. This does not decrease the size of the plane, but otherwise acts as a rift. additionally, two way travel is theoretically possible for a gate but not a rift. It is highly unlikely due to the short duration of the effect.

Other bags of holding are made that simply reduce weight and space. These are extra dimensional spaces and use the normal rules for extra dimensional spaces. The weight reduction can be any fixed percent up to 100. This decreases the crafting cost accordingly.

While talking about rifts, you'll notice I didn't mention the rope trick. Stationary extra dimensional spaces are effectively “unfolded” and do not normally count in terms of rifts or other disasters. Therefore, bringing any sort of storage into a stationary stable space will never cause a rift unless that space is moved or “folded.” However, there is a cumulative per dimension chance that two of the “folded” spaces will line up. This makes a “hole” in the space, causing gravity to empty one space into the other. This will always empty the smaller space into the larger.

The last question to address is what are these portals? Portals are extra planer interfaces. The energies used to make a stable hole between dimensions are very similar to extra dimensional spaces, albeit more dangerous. Portals always rupture extra planer spaces with fewer then 3 dimensions (such as bags of holding) and portable extra dimensional spaces even if closed. They do not generally rupture planes, demiplanes, pocket planes, or stationary extra dimensional spaces.

We now have our first generalizable rules:

when you add too many dimensions together, it forms a small hole in reality- a rift.

extra dimensional spaces are additive.

spaces can only hold as many dimensions as exist in it.

Have fun and don't tear too many holes in reality!

(critique welcome)