Summoner?

[Kaldrin]

I was going through my old character sheets from a few years ago and I stumbled across a sorcerer I was going to be playing for a campaign with only about a month or two of game time. Essentially it was just a quick thing to do while we were waiting for a couple of gamers to get back after work and life settled down again.

The thing is, it was a summoner with spells aimed at boosting the abilities of the summoned creature... the character was 8th level. Now, I think summoning quite sucks at anything below 5th level and is only moderately meh until at least the teens, but I never got to see how the buffs would have impacted it. And from a character point of view I think it would have been an amusing character to play.

Has anyone done this to make a summoner not as sucktastic? If so, how'd you do it?

[Starbuck_II]

I was going through my old character sheets from a few years ago and I stumbled across a sorcerer I was going to be playing for a campaign with only about a month or two of game time. Essentially it was just a quick thing to do while we were waiting for a couple of gamers to get back after work and life settled down again.

The thing is, it was a summoner with spells aimed at boosting the abilities of the summoned creature... the character was 8th level. Now, I think summoning quite sucks at anything below 5th level and is only moderately meh until at least the teens, but I never got to see how the buffs would have impacted it. And from a character point of view I think it would have been an amusing character to play.

Has anyone done this to make a summoner not as sucktastic? If so, how'd you do it?

Malkonver from Complete Scoundrel helps.
Summoning is decent from level 3 on actually.
Wizards can get standard action summon and augment summon by 1st (by scarificing Scribe scroll and Familiar).

Not sure how to make Sorceror summoner good though besides Malkonver Prc.

[Starscream]

I think druids make better summoners than arcane casters, simply because they can spontaneously cast SNAs.

Of course, sorcerer's can spontaneously cast everything, but druids also get some great low level buffs for animal summons, as well as feats like Rashomen Elemental Summoning and Greenbound Summoning that greatly increase your power.

[arguskos]

Summoning? Time to toot my own damn horn some more! If you aren't adverse to homebrew, check this out: The Summoner, by yours truly. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5207270&postcount=3) It's a base class that is summon focused in nature.

[Kaldrin]

I don't have a lot of books, so going into any kind of PrCs was quite far beyond me at the time. :)

What do metamagic feats do to summoning spells? For instance, does Maximize just summon the max number of creatures or does it max their HP and everything other variable too?

[Kaldrin]

Summoning? Time to toot my own damn horn some more! If you aren't adverse to homebrew, check this out: The Summoner, by yours truly. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5207270&postcount=3) It's a base class that is summon focused in nature.

The phrase "I downloaded it from the internet" never has gained any distance with any group I've been part of. Thanks though. Doesn't look too bad. :)

[Starbuck_II]

I don't have a lot of books, so going into any kind of PrCs was quite far beyond me at the time. :)

What do metamagic feats do to summoning spells? For instance, does Maximize just summon the max number of creatures or does it max their HP and everything other variable too?

No, maximize affects the spell not the creature. So 1d4 creatures = 4 creatures.

Malkonver grants addition fiendish/demonic summons when you succed on a bluff roll. Basically trick another one to come.
Pretty decent Prc.

[arguskos]

The phrase "I downloaded it from the internet" never has gained any distance with any group I've been part of. Thanks though. Doesn't look too bad. :)
Shame, I always try very hard to get people to give homebrew a try. Oh well.

On that note, getting Rapid Summoning is a must. Find a way to take less than a full round to cast a summon spell, and things are better. Them's my 2cp. :smallwink:

[GreyMantle]

I'm going to second the notion that arcane dudes, because they can't get hardcore stuff like the Summoning Domain or spontaneous summoning, generally aren't the best for the hordes-o-creatures character.

However, to throw out another homebrew suggestion, the Tome of Fiends (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=28828&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) has a really nifty Summoner base class in it (seeing as the document itself is really long, the class can be found maybe a fifth of the way down, or with some ctr-f shenanigans). If your DM is adverse to the thought of using a homebrew class, maybe show him/her some of the other sections of the Tome, like the parts about Alignment or High Adventure on the Low Planes so that he/she know that F&K really do know what they're talking about.

[Eldariel]

Druids by default can make decent summoners from level 1, although that requires unfortunately large amounts of resources (mostly, Spellgifted-trait [which is painful to take] and Ashbound-feat).

And yeah, Wizard with Rapid Summoning going into Malconvoker is really, really impressive by midlevels. Particularly with Focused Specialist to prepare a lot of Summon Monsters per day. This is all basically SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) (Core & Unearthed Arcana in this case) + Completes.

[Sinfire Titan]

What crack are you smoking? The best summoning spells are SM 5 and 7. Calling creatures is also a great option at the higher levels.


Summoning is effective because it allows you to act outside of the action economy. If a creature has a spell-like ability or spellcasting ability, you're effectively using one spell to cast 2 spells/round without using additional spell slots. Its a commonly recomended tactic because it works. Conjuration is the strongest school in the game for a lot of reasons, but Calling/Summoning is one of the big contributors.

Look at Summon Nature's Ally. You see the Unicorn on that list (level 5 IIRC)? The Unicorn gets Cure Moderate Wounds 1/day, Cure Light Wounds 3/day,a constant Magic Circle against Evil effect, and a few other SLAs I'm missing. For a 5th level, you effectively get a mini-Cleric, immunity to Charm/Dominate effects, and a meat shield for X rounds. And you can still cast spells while it acts.

And then there's SNA 3 (hint: Pixy).

[d13]

I think druids make better summoners than arcane casters, simply because they can spontaneously cast SNAs.


Summon Monster > Summon Nature's Ally.

At virtually any level.
Mix it with a little Master Specialist (Conjurer) and Malconvoker...
A pinch of salt.

And there you go =D

Or just be an Archivist, and take both! xD

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I'll also throw my hat to the Malconvoker. Gigantic centipedes can be fun, and having access to wall of ice twice a round for 2x caster level rounds when you banned evocation? Priceless.

I am a big fan of treantmonk's guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=289.0) on the subject matter.

In core, though, Druids are probably slightly ahead of arcane casters, but at least the SM spells don't require you to push animals, which the SNAs might require, depending on the creature.

[deuxhero]

@d13 The exception is summon nature's ally 4, the unicorn is a great healer (and handy to have spontaneously).


I think the standard build for a serious summoner was
Focused Specialist Conjurerer (bar Evocation, enchantment and necromancy)/Master specialist/Malconvoker

[Akal Saris]

Here's the Malconvoker handbook on BG, by the inestimable treantmonk. It also has several links to other summoning handbooks.

Mastering the Malconvoker
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=289.0

[Gnorman]

Also, a guide to summonable/bindable evil outsiders (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5573.0). Helpful if you go the Malconvoker route.

[RagnaroksChosen]

if it needs to be sorcerer I would take the fiend ancestory out of Phb2 or what ever the semi evil one was... It gives you a +2 cl to evil summons then go to malconvoker.

It's pritty sweat especialy makes malkonvoker easyer as you have a higher charisma

[Fitz10019]

The Imbued Summoning feat from PHB2 has errata that clarifies that your secondary spell applies to all the creatures summoned by the primary summoning spell.

In a Core-only game, consider the Thaumaturgist from the DMG.