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Kokaka
2009-10-19, 04:21 PM
So, I'm going to play a spellcaster starting at lvl 6.
Does anyone have some tips on some good feats that I should take (2 flaws are allowed). I need tips on spells aswell, since I have not played a spellcaster before and my experience with dnd is very limited. I will be playing mostly solo.
And last, is there any good PRC out there that I should be aiming for?

Boci
2009-10-19, 04:25 PM
So, I'm going to play a spellcaster starting at lvl 6.
Does anyone have some tips on some good feats that I should take (2 flaws are allowed). I need tips on spells aswell, since I have not played a spellcaster before and my experience with dnd is very limited. I will be playing mostly solo.

The mail man is pretty good, although depending on your Dm you may need to tone it down. Split ray and easy metamagic (split ray) allows you to double the effectivness of ray spells for +1 level. So choose a lot of ray spells such as enervate and ray of exhasution and seeking ray.



And last, is there any good PRC out there that I should be aiming for?

Fiendblooded is okay. Depends on your theme.

jiriku
2009-10-19, 04:40 PM
Since you'll be keeping your spells for a very long time, always ask yourself...will I be using this spell five levels from now? The answer should be yes for all the spells on your list.

Doc Roc
2009-10-19, 04:43 PM
I like war-weaver, myself. :)

DementedFellow
2009-10-19, 05:06 PM
As far as PrCs go, there is one in Sandstorm called Sand Shaper. I believe you do lose a spellcasting level, but you gain a number of spells, and quite a few are utility. You also get a nice ability to come back to life by having your body covered in sand.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-19, 05:09 PM
So, I'm going to play a spellcaster starting at lvl 6.
Does anyone have some tips on some good feats that I should take (2 flaws are allowed). I need tips on spells aswell, since I have not played a spellcaster before and my experience with dnd is very limited. I will be playing mostly solo.
And last, is there any good PRC out there that I should be aiming for?

Manditory link (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2180.0)

:smallsigh:Next!

sambo.
2009-10-19, 06:12 PM
And last, is there any good PRC out there that I should be aiming for?
Archmage is always a solid option.

Thurbane
2009-10-19, 08:21 PM
A dip into Sand Shaper lets you add a bunch of spells to your spells known.

dspeyer
2009-10-19, 08:30 PM
Some disjointed advice:

Have three attack spells: a will-save-or-suck, a fort-save-or-suck and area-effect. Don't waste spells known on multiple spells that do effectively the same thing.

Metamagic is your friend. Shape spell and energy substitution are like extra spells known. Silent and still allow you stealth. Toss your familiar for metamagic specialist.

Don't worry much about schools. There are a couple of feats that are school-specific, but they aren't especially powerful, and you haven't got feats to burn.

Don't learn spells with costly material components. Any town that sells those specific gems also sells scrolls, and not for much more.

Remember your skills. They can come in handy. Bluff is a classic. Craft is ofen relevant too.

Remember that you can swap out a spell every even level. It's usually worth doing.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-19, 08:41 PM
To enumerate and elucidate whilst expounding on this advice...


Some disjointed advice:

Have three attack spells: a will-save-or-suck, a fort-save-or-suck and area-effect. Don't waste spells known on multiple spells that do effectively the same thing. To be clear, you want at least one of the following:

* Will save-or-screwed
* Fort save-or-screwed
* Ref save-or-screwed
* RTA with no save, preferabally some kind of 'you're screwed', but can be damage of the output is high enough
* Area Effect, because swarms of Mooks happen
* Single-target shut-down, because BBEG's happen



Metamagic is your friend. Shape spell and energy substitution are like extra spells known. Silent and still allow you stealth. Toss your familiar for metamagic specialist.
To expound upon this:

Metamagic is where Sorcerers shine. You don't have to know several hours in advance that you will need a given metamagic on a given spell. Thus, you get slapped with a Silence spell... a Wizard, who had not specifically memorized a Silent Dispel Magic or something similar would be hosed. A Sorcerer with Silent Spell can continue mostly unaffected, although at a slightly higher spell level cost.

To this effect, some suggestions:

Trade your familiar (worthless at best, and a liability at worst) for the ability to perform Metamagic on the fly without increasing casting time. At 9th level, pick up the feat that lets you do it unlimited number of times per day.


Don't worry much about schools. There are a couple of feats that are school-specific, but they aren't especially powerful, and you haven't got feats to burn. Agreed. Let wizards worry about school, you just need to get the spells that school opponents.


Don't learn spells with costly material components. Any town that sells those specific gems also sells scrolls, and not for much more. Agreed, with a caveat that this should also apply to spells which have an XP cost. If you cast them enough times to be worth having as a Spell Known, it's gonna be a huge money-sink.


Remember your skills. They can come in handy. Bluff is a classic. Craft is ofen relevant too. Spellcraft is a must, as is Knowledge (Arcana). Concentration is exceedingly useful to cast on the defensive with.


Remember that you can swap out a spell every even level. It's usually worth doing.

This is, in particular, useful if you end up with a spell you aren't really happy with, or is no longer being productive. Case in point: Sleep is an encounter-win-button at 1st level... but by 4th, it's worthless because nothing is affected by it. Be choosy with your spells known, but if you do make a mistake, this lets it not be permanent.

good_lookin_gus
2009-10-19, 09:23 PM
Trade your familiar (worthless at best, and a liability at worst) for the ability to perform Metamagic on the fly without increasing casting time.

While there are a few sucky familiars out there (i.e. lizard, toad), I wouldn't call the addition of decent spot & listen checks "worthless," furthermore high movement speeds, weapon finesse, and flight mean touch spells are still viable before you pick up reach spell, or arcane reach.


At 9th level, pick up the feat that lets you do it unlimited number of times per day.

What is this?

Flickerdart
2009-10-19, 09:30 PM
Hummingbird is a very powerful familiar (boosts Initiative) but it's Dragon Mag material, and no-action Metamagic is worth dumping it.

Remember that your casting stat is the classic dump stat. It'll take a feat or two to get some things running off of it. On the bright side, CHA checks to manipulate Charmed foes and bargaining with Planar Bound outsiders just got a lot easier.

Draken
2009-10-19, 09:34 PM
A feat in Complete Mage. It basicaly reads "With this feat, sorcerers can use metamagic with absolute freedom."

9th level because one of the prerequisites is 12 ranks in spellcraft.

Kylarra
2009-10-19, 09:35 PM
It's always better to trade off your initial familiar anyway and pick up one via obtain familiar feat, assuming you want a familiar, so that it'll count all your casting classes instead of just the original you PrC'd out of anyway.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-19, 09:36 PM
While there are a few sucky familiars out there (i.e. lizard, toad), I wouldn't call the addition of decent spot & listen checks "worthless," furthermore high movement speeds, weapon finesse, and flight mean touch spells are still viable before you pick up reach spell, or arcane reach. I strongly disagree. Sending your familiar into actual combat, within reach of things that might want to hurt it, is just asking for xp loss. Spot and Listen... unless it is a Raven, it is meaningless as it has no way to really communicate what it sees. Even then, odds are that at least one other member of the party made the same check, and can apprise the rest of the party.

Keep in mind that almost all Familiars are Tiny or smaller, which means they actually have to get into the hex of the creature to touch them, which means the creature gets an Attack of Opportunity on it first.




What is this?

Rapid Metamagic (CompMage). Has skill requirements that cannot be met before 9th level, though.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2009-10-19, 09:59 PM
If you have the required feats to burn, Mage of the Arcane Order's (CArc) spellpool feature is especially nifty for sorcerers. Never worry about out of combat utility spells again!

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-19, 10:02 PM
If you have the required feats to burn, Mage of the Arcane Order's (CArc) spellpool feature is especially nifty for sorcerers. Never worry about out of combat utility spells again!

Once or twice per day max, as the number of spell levels you can use is sharply limited by your MotAO level. But yes, once or twice per day, pull exactly the right spell for the situation out of your rear. Absolutely invaluable for any Sorcerer.

good_lookin_gus
2009-10-19, 10:26 PM
I strongly disagree. Sending your familiar into actual combat, within reach of things that might want to hurt it, is just asking for xp loss. Spot and Listen... unless it is a Raven, it is meaningless as it has no way to really communicate what it sees. Even then, odds are that at least one other member of the party made the same check, and can apprise the rest of the party.

At 5th level it can speak with its Master so it's definately not meaningless. Before that there's empathic link. I know the wording is pretty vague and suggests its uses a very limited. It wouldn't help in the case of an ambush but if it saw the enemy before they saw you.


Even then, odds are that at least one other member of the party made the same check, and can apprise the rest of the party.

I'm not too sure about that.


Keep in mind that almost all Familiars are Tiny or smaller, which means they actually have to get into the hex of the creature to touch them, which means the creature gets an Attack of Opportunity on it first.


That's a +8 to hide against a distracted (-5 to spot) opponent. Of course it's probably charging which incurs a -20, but my point is that a creature needs to be aware of the familiar to get an AoO and that can often be easily denied.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-19, 10:42 PM
Once or twice per day max, as the number of spell levels you can use is sharply limited by your MotAO level. But yes, once or twice per day, pull exactly the right spell for the situation out of your rear. Absolutely invaluable for any Sorcerer.

If you prepare a metamagicked spell with Arcane Preparation, which is a prerequisite feat for MotAO, you do not suffer an increase in casting time.

I personally prefer the Metamagic Specialist ACF to the Rapid Metamagic feat. I can never find room for the feat in my builds.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-19, 10:48 PM
That's a +8 to hide against a distracted (-5 to spot) opponent. Of course it's probably charging which incurs a -20, but my point is that a creature needs to be aware of the familiar to get an AoO and that can often be easily denied.

You also can't Hide without Cover unless you have HiPS...


If you prepare a metamagicked spell with Arcane Preparation, which is a prerequisite feat for MotAO, you do not suffer an increase in casting time. If you know you need it a day in advance..

I personally prefer the Metamagic Specialist ACF to the Rapid Metamagic feat. I can never find room for the feat in my builds.[/QUOTE]

It's limited number of uses per day can get eaten up pretty quickly...

valadil
2009-10-19, 10:55 PM
You absolutely need a way to do fast metamagic. The level 9 feat does the job, but I prefer the PHB2 option that lets you ditch your familiar instead.

Even at level 6 you can have a lot of fun with metamagic. Sculpt is great at low levels. I made my GMs very frustrated when I ended their encounters with sculpted grease and color spray. Sculpt effectively lets you cast 4 grease spells if you go for the 4 10x10 option.

Have some variety in your spells. One or two blasting options is plenty. Basically you want spells that will be pretty good 90% of the time instead of spells that will be awesome 10% of the time. Playing a sorcerer is all about spell selection.

If you can, go incantatrix. Giving up a school is easy and the bonus metamagic is well worth it. The broken stuff is awesome too, but extra metamagic is better than a whole lot of other PrCs out there. Take a look at the 3.0 incantatrix if the new one is too broken.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-19, 11:01 PM
It's limited number of uses per day can get eaten up pretty quickly...

On the plus side, you can use it from level 1 and you might not need to use more than 3+ Int Mod applications of it per day anyways.

Delandel
2009-10-19, 11:23 PM
Sorcerer Handbook. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871358/Short_Sorcerer_Handbook) Probably will have all the information you'll get here and more.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-19, 11:30 PM
It's practically unreadable...

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-19, 11:37 PM
On the plus side, you can use it from level 1 and you might not need to use more than 3+ Int Mod applications of it per day anyways.

To start with, maybe... if you can find a +0 SA metamagic feat that is worth applying to 1st level spells...

Really, actually using Metamagic doesn't really happen a lot until you have high enough spell slots to be worth casting them.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-19, 11:39 PM
Sanctum Spell?

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-19, 11:41 PM
Sanctum Spell?

Sorry, I've got an inherent and severe allergy to extreme cheese. The only use for that feat is to abuse metamagic reducers...

Kylarra
2009-10-19, 11:43 PM
I've always liked invisible spell.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-19, 11:43 PM
Then Invisible Spell it is.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-19, 11:56 PM
Then Invisible Spell it is.

I was thinking Energy Substitution (acid) or somesuch, particularly on Lesser Orb of <element>, get two flavors for the price of one. Order yours today!

Kylarra
2009-10-20, 12:14 AM
born of three thunders on your lesser orb. Get double the riders or your money back.

Myrmex
2009-10-20, 12:20 AM
Heighten Spell is useful, because it can turn low level spells that are really, really powerful, like Glitterdust, into high level spells that are really, really powerful. This will free up higher level spells known for better spells, so you won't have to be updating your most powerful save-or-bad-things-happen.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-20, 01:42 AM
I hear fiend-blooded is good, too.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-20, 02:00 AM
born of three thunders on your lesser orb. Get double the riders or your money back.

Isn't exactly a +0 Spell-Level Adjustment...

Myrmex
2009-10-20, 02:01 AM
I hear fiend-blooded is good, too.

Yeah, so long as you can figure a work around that 8 ranks in The Planes requirement. Either get the DM to houserule it or dip Mindbender or something.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-20, 02:02 AM
Knowledge Devotion to the rescue!

Myrmex
2009-10-20, 02:08 AM
Knowledge Devotion to the rescue!

Is it worth the feat? I think I'd rather burn skill points than feats, especially when Knowledge Devotion keys of something of a dump stat. I guess if you go human or stongheart halfling.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-20, 02:16 AM
Knowledge Devotion to the rescue!

I thought Knowledge Devotion simply gave you bonuses based on your Knowledge check. It was the Knowledge Domain which granted all Knowledge skills as Class skills...

Myrmex
2009-10-20, 02:17 AM
I thought Knowledge Devotion simply gave you bonuses based on your Knowledge check. It was the Knowledge Domain which granted all Knowledge skills as Class skills...

You also get to pick one Knowledge skill that is forever a class skill for you.

Kylarra
2009-10-20, 02:25 AM
Isn't exactly a +0 Spell-Level Adjustment...Well, it's not something you can do at level 1 as a sorcerer, but I assure you, it's a +0 adjustment, as is the energy sub (elec) that lets you put it on any energy spell.

Cyclocone
2009-10-20, 02:25 AM
Take a Planar Sorcerer Substitution Level (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040711b&page=1), they give K:Planes as a class skill.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-20, 02:40 AM
Take a Planar Sorcerer Substitution Level (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040711b&page=1), they give K:Planes as a class skill.

Only at 5th, 9th, and 13th, and only if you take the sub-levels.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-20, 03:33 AM
There are other ways. Other PrC's you can go into for a level or two, that grant the skill as a class skill. As long as you're advancing spellcasting at full progression, it's usually not bad. Still, Knowledge Devotion is likely the easiest, especially when the payout is multiple spells known.

Rixx
2009-10-20, 03:51 AM
Easy way to optimize a sorcerer:

Step 1: Pick some cool and fun spells.

Step 2: Cast them whenever you want.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-20, 03:57 AM
Easy way to optimize a sorcerer:

Step 1: Pick some cool and fun spells.

Step 2: Cast them whenever you want.

That's how to play one (or one way to). Not how to optimize. Optimization, by its nature, is based on effectiveness. Not "cool" "fun" or "arbitrary display of power".

If a cool or fun spell is bad, then it's not optimization, no matter how often its cast.

Kokaka
2009-10-20, 03:08 PM
Thanks for your tips guys, they have been really helpfull.

So, I have finally made a sorcerer that I think will work.

I will be starting at lvl 2 now but we will gain exp alot quicker than normal

Str: 10
Con: 14
Dex: 18
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 18

1 Sorcerer: Metamagic Specialist, Improved Initsiative, 2 Flaws, 3 Bonus feats
2 Sorcerer
3 Sorcerer: Cooperative spell
4 Sorcerer +1 Cha
5 Mage of the Arcane Order: Guild Member, Spellpool 1
6 Mage of the Arcane Order: Free Metamagic Feat, Bonus Feat
7 Sacred Exorcist: Exorcism, turn undead
8 Sacred Exorcist: Detect evil, resist possession +1 Cha

Equipment: 150gc, Wand of cure light wounds (750gc)

The attributes can be changed, so +1 in one give -1 in another and the other way around.
I have selected 2 flaws since I think they are awesome, thogh I need some help in picking the 2 that works best with this char.
Improved initsiative is there since I will be playing alot solo I need the first turn.
I have taken wand of cure light wounds since otherwise, I dont have any chanse of healing.

Besides for that, I need help picking some good spells and feats, and since I suck in dnd, I need some help picking them

So will this build work? I'm aiming for the Exorcist since divine metamagic godness is always fun.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-20, 03:35 PM
Thanks for your tips guys, they have been really helpfull.

So, I have finally made a sorcerer that I think will work.

I will be starting at lvl 2 now but we will gain exp alot quicker than normal

Str: 10
Con: 14
Dex: 18
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 18

1 Sorcerer: Metamagic Specialist, Improved Initsiative, 2 Flaws, 3 Bonus feats
2 Sorcerer
3 Sorcerer: Cooperative spell
4 Sorcerer +1 Cha
5 Mage of the Arcane Order: Guild Member, Spellpool 1
6 Mage of the Arcane Order: Free Metamagic Feat, Bonus Feat
7 Sacred Exorcist: Exorcism, turn undead
8 Sacred Exorcist: Detect evil, resist possession +1 Cha

Equipment: 150gc, Wand of cure light wounds (750gc)

The attributes can be changed, so +1 in one give -1 in another and the other way around.
I have selected 2 flaws since I think they are awesome, thogh I need some help in picking the 2 that works best with this char.
Improved initsiative is there since I will be playing alot solo I need the first turn.
I have taken wand of cure light wounds since otherwise, I dont have any chanse of healing. You can't use a wand of cure light wounds, since that spell is not on your list, and you don't have ranks in Use Magic Device


Besides for that, I need help picking some good spells and feats, and since I suck in dnd, I need some help picking them

So will this build work? I'm aiming for the Exorcist since divine metamagic godness is always fun.

Sacred Exorcist is only useful for specific builds, and DMM only works on Divine Spells. You'd need Geomancer levels for it to do you any good, which is just as waste of levels. Go further into MotAO

Kokaka
2009-10-20, 04:13 PM
You can't use a wand of cure light wounds, since that spell is not on your list, and you don't have ranks in Use Magic Device



Sacred Exorcist is only useful for specific builds, and DMM only works on Divine Spells. You'd need Geomancer levels for it to do you any good, which is just as waste of levels. Go further into MotAO

Isn't it possible to take ranks in use magic device as a sorcerer if I pay double the cost?

I did not know about the thing with divine metamagic, should I just stick to the arcane order or change it to another good, fun and cool PrC?

Thurbane
2009-10-21, 08:05 PM
The Bloodline feats from Dragon Compendium, getting you 1 spell per level added to your spells known. The rules are a little unclear as to whether you can take more than one of these feats - I think in Dragon where they appeared initially, there was a limit of one, and at 1st level only, but Dragon Compendium is less clear.

HCL
2009-10-21, 08:55 PM
Cool things:

Raptoran sorcerer- gets a CR 1 air elemental for a familiar at level 1, no need to waste a feat on improved familiar. Get Augment familiar (via Precocious apprentice if starting at low level, probably Versatile Spellcaster as well) and he will solo encounters at a low level. Later you can just use him to UMD wands for you. Another cool thing is that raptorans get Extraordinary flight at level 5, meaning you can save your spells known and actions for doing something productive, like casting Greater Thunderclap.

Improved Familiar- Complete scoundrel version is the best. Get an Imp or Mephit (Glass, Earth, or Salt). They get cool SLAs and can UMD things for you. If you are running at a high level go for Dragon Familiar instead and make it a wyrmling gold dragon.

Some of my favorite spells:
Mirror Image - lots of defense
Shadow Evocation/Conjuration and their derivatives-lots of versatility
Planar binding- You have enough charisma to make this work. You don't at all have to actually use this to "bind" the outsider in situations where it would be risky to do so, you can just call them and then use diplomacy to ask them nicely to help.
Howling Chain- Best evocation spell in the book
Wings of cover- Ignore an attack for you, your familiar, and your nearby buddies once a round

Races:
Kobold- Get the Dragonwrought feat so you can be a dragon. Then you can get sovereign archetypes, which add class skills, increase sorcerer casting, or add cleric spells to your list
Forest Gnome- Big hide check bonus and you can get into SHadowcraft Mage
Human & Strongheart Halfling-Bonus feat, comes in medium and small
Raptoran- Reasons mentioned above
Illumian- Improved Sigil Krau has more lasting power than precocious apprentice and can get you into cool prestige classes early
Draconic and Dragonborn Templates-Dragonblood subtype +perks

Favorite prestige classes
Anima Mage- Easy to get into (Precocious apprentice or IS:K and a level of binder with improved binding gets you in at level 3) gives you cool abilities and full casting/binding advancement
Mystic Theurge&Arcane Heirophant-If you are playing an illumian with IS:K just dip Shujenga or Spirit Shaman or something and there is really almost no down side
Skypledged: Just one level gets you some cleric/druid casting on a raptoran character provided you know Summon Monster 4
Shadowcraft Mage: Play a gnome and give up evocation and you can mimic almost everything in conjuration and evocation with heightened silent images, freeing up a bunch of spells known. Add Illusion save DC boosting feats or just crank the % reality to 100+
Sandshaper: Bonus spells known + coolness

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-22, 10:13 AM
Cool things:

Raptoran sorcerer- gets a CR 1 air elemental for a familiar at level 1, no need to waste a feat on improved familiar. Get Augment familiar (via Precocious apprentice if starting at low level, probably Versatile Spellcaster as well) and he will solo encounters at a low level. Later you can just use him to UMD wands for you. Another cool thing is that raptorans get Extraordinary flight at level 5, meaning you can save your spells known and actions for doing something productive, like casting Greater Thunderclap. LA adjustment hurts, though


Improved Familiar- Complete scoundrel version is the best. Get an Imp or Mephit (Glass, Earth, or Salt). They get cool SLAs and can UMD things for you. If you are running at a high level go for Dragon Familiar instead and make it a wyrmling gold dragon. I wouldn't bother with Improved Familiar, I'd just trade it away.


Some of my favorite spells:
Mirror Image - lots of defense
Shadow Evocation/Conjuration and their derivatives-lots of versatility
Planar binding- You have enough charisma to make this work. You don't at all have to actually use this to "bind" the outsider in situations where it would be risky to do so, you can just call them and then use diplomacy to ask them nicely to help.
Howling Chain- Best evocation spell in the book
Wings of cover- Ignore an attack for you, your familiar, and your nearby buddies once a round
Mirror Image, I'll agree with you on. Shadow Evoc/Conj... yes they are versitile, but at the same time, fairly weak, and adds another save, as well as allowing SR. Particularly with Shadow Conjuration, the SR allowed really sucks, as that is one of the nifty things about them.

Planar Binding leads to the Cheese Side. Howling Chain... I've never heard of before. Wings of anything are crack.


Races:
Kobold- Get the Dragonwrought feat so you can be a dragon. Then you can get sovereign archetypes, which add class skills, increase sorcerer casting, or add cleric spells to your list Glah, not another dragonwrought kobold pun-pun-wannabe...

Forest Gnome- Big hide check bonus and you can get into SHadowcraft Mage Shadow Gnome is better for that, if you are really wanting that kind of cheese

Human & Strongheart Halfling-Bonus feat, comes in medium and small I consider Strongheart Halfling to be better, as you loose nothing by being Small, and gain minor advantages.

Raptoran- Reasons mentioned above
Illumian- Improved Sigil Krau has more lasting power than precocious apprentice and can get you into cool prestige classes early Early Entry makes Gary Gygax cry. Friends don't let friends do Krau.

Draconic and Dragonborn Templates-Dragonblood subtype +perks Steep on the feet investment if you want to take advantage of it, though.


Favorite prestige classes
Anima Mage- Easy to get into (Precocious apprentice or IS:K and a level of binder with improved binding gets you in at level 3) gives you cool abilities and full casting/binding advancement
Mystic Theurge&Arcane Heirophant-If you are playing an illumian with IS:K just dip Shujenga or Spirit Shaman or something and there is really almost no down side Not all GM's allow you to use Precocious Apprentice for early entry. Some just ban it completely.

Skypledged: Just one level gets you some cleric/druid casting on a raptoran character provided you know Summon Monster 4 Er.... riiiiight

Shadowcraft Mage: Play a gnome and give up evocation and you can mimic almost everything in conjuration and evocation with heightened silent images, freeing up a bunch of spells known. Add Illusion save DC boosting feats or just crank the % reality to 100+ Sure, if you want Rocks to Fall... effectively making a Schrodinger's Sorcerer isn't going to make your GM, or the rest of the party, very happy.

Sandshaper: Bonus spells known + coolnessAssuming it is allowed.

In short, most of your suggestions are borderline unplayable, using poorly-defined and quasi-legal tactics which not every GM agrees to, and almost certain to annoy everyone at the table.

Sure, they're great CharOp theories, but putting them into practice is... not practical.

Vizzerdrix
2009-10-22, 12:20 PM
Honestly, if it was me, I'd use the Unearthed Arcana Generic Caster instead of the Sorc. Same Yummy flavor, but you can pick your skills, get to pick spells from the big core 3 lists and get feats every 5 levels. Honestly I feel it fits the sorcerer flavor better than the sorcerer.

As for feats, Versatile Spellcaster from RotD and heighten spell are both good. Ask you DM how they should be allowed to work together though.

Kylarra
2009-10-22, 12:24 PM
The generics are mostly stronger than their component classes anyway, due to versatility. It's unlikely you'd push one into a normal game.

Vizzerdrix
2009-10-22, 12:30 PM
I've played in games with them, both using and along side people using them. They are strong compared to some play styles I'll agree, but I found them to be on par with multiclassing and dipping for power, and provide less book keeping for players.

Zaq
2009-10-22, 11:09 PM
LA adjustment hurts, though

LA does hurt. Good thing that Raptorans don't have any, huh?