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msully4321
2009-10-20, 01:57 PM
This thread serves two purposes: 1) talking about a character concept that I really like, and 2) pondering how to build him.
This isn't for upcoming campaign, I'm just pondering it right now.

The concept:

Matin was a devoutly religious child, a member of the Church of St. Cuthbert. Upon reaching maturity, he began training as a cleric at the local temple of St. Cuthbert. He served for half a dozen years as an enforcer of the Law of St. Cuthbert, tracking down Lawbreakers and meting out Cuthbert's justice with the business end of a heavy mace. He, as the Church taught, delivered retribution without the opportunity for redemption. Although he was one of the Church's most successful enforcers, Matin began to feel doubts about the righteousness of blindly enforcing the Law without consideration of the consequences or human suffering. Upon expressing his views to his superiors, he was defrocked and branded a heretic and a Lawbreaker. He barely escaped with his life. This began a cross-country trek on the run from his former friends and allies, during which he underwent a spiritual transformation.

Matin has since abandoned worship of St. Cuthbert, becoming a cleric of the ideal of redemption. He now wanders the land, searching for the opportunity for redemption that he spent his life denying to others. He provides clerical services to small towns and occasionally preaches (after casting Eagle's Splendor on himself) and gives spiritual advice. He hopes for the opportunity to redeem his foes, but is not naive about it; he is willing to kill to defend the innocent and (somewhat to his shame) himself. He has abandoned his old mace, instead carrying a simple wooden club.

Build ideas:
I'm going to assume level 9 with 32-point buy. I'm also assuming that DMM (persist) wouldn't be allowed, but that other DMM probably would be and that a single non-stacking nightstick would probably be legit.

So, base stats at level 9 are: Str 16, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 10? (and then additionally would have at least Con and Wis items).
I'm thinking Travel and Protection as his domains (although if I could justify War somehow instead of Protection, it would be nice to pick up Holy Warrior...).

Combat gear: Full armor, heavy steel shield, the usual. He will fight with a club that has had spikes cast on it (+2 hit,+1 damage/CL, double crit range, 1 hour/level).

He's a human going straight cleric, which means 5 feats.
I'm definitely going with Travel Devotion. Possibly DMM (quicken) or DMM (extend)? Possibly Extend Spell even without DMM. Also maybe considering Domain Spontaneity (travel). Maybe an Extra Turning if he has enough things that cost turn attempts.
So, one possible feat set: Travel Devotion, Extend Spell, DMM (Extend Spell), Domain Spontaneity (travel), Extra Turning.


Any thoughts or suggestions on the concept or on the build (especially feat choice)? Is the portrayal of the Church of Cuthbert in line with canon? Suggestions on how to roleplay him?

Eldariel
2009-10-20, 02:04 PM
Sounds doable. I'd take that background story as an opportunity to dip into Church Inquisitor on level 5, making him probably Cleric 4/Church Inquisitor 4/Cleric +1 (or some other PrC that you feel fits the Salvation Cleric-better, such as Radiant Servant rewritten for the ideal rather than Pelor himself). Cleric 4/Church Inquisitor 6/Contemplative would also work.

JeenLeen
2009-10-20, 02:09 PM
Matin began to feel doubts about the righteousness of blindly enforcing the Law without consideration of the consequences or human suffering. Upon expressing his views to his superiors, he was defrocked and branded a heretic and a Lawbreaker. He barely escaped with his life.

Is this a physical brand somewhere on his body? If so, that makes his work as a current cleric perhaps difficult.
I don't know how the Church of St. Cuthbert is portrayed, but I imagine it would make more sense to have Matin let a rependent person go to cause such a censure. Just expressing his views, and only to his superiors, not in public or to his peers, seems reasonable. Maybe he would be defrocked, but death for that seems really extreme. But maybe that is how that church works.


I think I read somewhere that a Cleric x who becomes an ex-Cleric and then becomes a Cleric of a different god starts anew as far as spellcasting is regarded. For example, Matin (at level 9) could be a ex-Cleric 5/Cleric of Redemption 4.
As a much more reasonable alternative, I think a cleric can receive an Atonement spell to become a cleric again after they loose their connection to their deity, even if it is for another god or ideal. By a cleric of your current alignment, IIRC.
I admit I am not sure if that is RAW, speculation or alternative systems mentioned in a book, or just discussion between my DM and I.

War domain seems contrary to the ideals of Redemption, unless you go in a CG 'redeem the land by liberating it' more than 'help people redemn themselves from their evil ways'. I could see Travel, Protection, Good, maybe Healing, and some of the ones from Spell Compendium like Community (helping restore social order, not just enforce it).

msully4321
2009-10-20, 02:30 PM
Is this a physical brand somewhere on his body? If so, that makes his work as a current cleric perhaps difficult.
I don't know how the Church of St. Cuthbert is portrayed, but I imagine it would make more sense to have Matin let a rependent person go to cause such a censure. Just expressing his views, and only to his superiors, not in public or to his peers, seems reasonable. Maybe he would be defrocked, but death for that seems really extreme. But maybe that is how that church works.


I think I read somewhere that a Cleric x who becomes an ex-Cleric and then becomes a Cleric of a different god starts anew as far as spellcasting is regarded. For example, Matin (at level 9) could be a ex-Cleric 5/Cleric of Redemption 4.
As a much more reasonable alternative, I think a cleric can receive an Atonement spell to become a cleric again after they loose their connection to their deity, even if it is for another god or ideal. By a cleric of your current alignment, IIRC.
I admit I am not sure if that is RAW, speculation or alternative systems mentioned in a book, or just discussion between my DM and I.

War domain seems contrary to the ideals of Redemption, unless you go in a CG 'redeem the land by liberating it' more than 'help people redemn themselves from their evil ways'. I could see Travel, Protection, Good, maybe Healing, and some of the ones from Spell Compendium like Community (helping restore social order, not just enforce it).

Yeah, I'll probably change it so that he either let somebody go or that he started preaching his new beliefs among the other clerics.

I'm assuming that he went on some sort of quest and received an atonement spell at some point during his journey.

It would be War in the sense of "protecting the innocent from oppressors", but I don't think I can actually justify that.

Rhiannon87
2009-10-20, 03:47 PM
I think I read somewhere that a Cleric x who becomes an ex-Cleric and then becomes a Cleric of a different god starts anew as far as spellcasting is regarded. For example, Matin (at level 9) could be a ex-Cleric 5/Cleric of Redemption 4.
As a much more reasonable alternative, I think a cleric can receive an Atonement spell to become a cleric again after they loose their connection to their deity, even if it is for another god or ideal. By a cleric of your current alignment, IIRC.
I admit I am not sure if that is RAW, speculation or alternative systems mentioned in a book, or just discussion between my DM and I.


Pretty sure that when you switch deities, you're without spells until you get someone to cast atonement on you. Then you're treated as a full cleric of that deity. So Matin would have been a Cleric 9 of Cuthbert, then an ex-cleric, then he'd have had to get someone from his new god/ideal to cast atonement on him, then he's a cleric 9 of redemption.

Cool concept, btw. This guy seems like he could work as a PC or an interesting NPC for characters to encounter.

msully4321
2009-10-21, 02:54 PM
Pretty sure that when you switch deities, you're without spells until you get someone to cast atonement on you. Then you're treated as a full cleric of that deity. So Matin would have been a Cleric 9 of Cuthbert, then an ex-cleric, then he'd have had to get someone from his new god/ideal to cast atonement on him, then he's a cleric 9 of redemption.

Cool concept, btw. This guy seems like he could work as a PC or an interesting NPC for characters to encounter.

Hm... I think an important backstory character would then be the cleric who cast Atonement for him. I suspect that clerics of redemption are probably pretty rare, so...

Yeah, I may end up having Matin show up as an NPC in my campaign if I don't think I'll have a chance to play him.