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Lycanthromancer
2009-10-21, 07:38 PM
Okay, here's the deal: a friend of mine is running a gestalt campaign starting at level 1. We have 4 characters, 2 of which are n00bs (1 of which is starting to get the hang of where true power lies), 1 is an experienced player, but one who has no idea about how to optimize effectively, and me (and I know my way around practical optimization, thank you very much).

I'm playing a positive-energy evolved undead necropolitan kobold (the DM has ruled that kobolds are -1 LA, and so I got evolved undead for free), and he's a factotum//psion (generalist, can cherrypick off of all the discipline lists). Also, this was going to be a solo campaign, with a panwere (read: divine minion of set) dragonfire adept//barbarian cohort NPC and my character's boyfriend. I dunno if he's going to be making an appearance in this particular iteration of the game, though.

The other experienced player WAS going to play a warmage//healer. ...Yeah. I convinced him to play a wizard//druid, to give him a chance to survive and be useful. He's possibly going to be human. Maybe. He wants to focus on blasting, and I got him intrigued at the idea of minions and party-buffs (and a bit of battlefield control).

The newbie who's starting to get a handle on things wants to be a support character, so I convinced him he wanted to be a changeling (for the RP opportunities) artificer//bard. I'm thinking dragonfire inspiration, going into sublime chord.

The last newb is newbie #1's wife, and she's not interested in the mechanics nearly as much as playing a character, and doesn't want to bother with anything complicated (I'm thinking a barbarian, for the "I move and hit it" factor), but I don't know what to gestalt her with. Maybe a Savage Species progression? A copper dragon or somesuch? All she's ever played was a barbarian/frenzied berzerker, and she had her husband handle the mechanical details, just having her figure out what she wants to do (generally speaking), then we tell her which dice to roll.

Sources allowed: The core 3, MM 2-4, the Expanded Psionics Handbook, the Complete Series and Races Series, a few campaign books (like Eberron), Libris Mortis, ToB, Dungeonscape, and a few others (I might be able to get one or two others approved).

She needs to be something with enough power to see her through, something that gestalts well with barbarian (and probably frenzied berzerker again), but something really light on rules-juggling. Spellcasting classes are right out.

Any class or race progressions you'd suggest?

Prak
2009-10-21, 07:58 PM
well, the group still needs a sneak, and a Rogue/Barbarian could be surprisingly effective.

Zore
2009-10-21, 08:02 PM
A bit unorthodox but perhaps a Dragonfire Adept or Warlock to give the Barbarian some utility with their passive buffs. Warlock doesn't need Cha if you focus on the Buff invocations, maybe grabbing Eldritch Glaive, and Dragonfire Adepts go for Con so it could work with a Barbarian.

You could give her something with a strong will save to help with the "Frezy" aspect. Maybe Bard, but that sounds like it might be too intensive.

Some sort of Dragon would be good, it would boost her will save at the very least and give some nice passive abilities.

Hmmm... A Ghost template with "Ghostly Grasp" feat from Libris Mortis would give her all the benefits of incorporeality, and near total indestructibility, as well as the ability to wield weapons and interact with the world based on how your DM handles incorporeal strength score.

Lycanthromancer
2009-10-21, 08:06 PM
well, the group still needs a sneak, and a Rogue/Barbarian could be surprisingly effective.
What is my factotum//psion, chopped liver? :smalltongue:


A bit unorthodox but perhaps a Dragonfire Adept or Warlock to give the Barbarian some utility with their passive buffs. Warlock doesn't need Cha if you focus on the Buff invocations, maybe grabbing Eldritch Glaive, and Dragonfire Adepts go for Con so it could work with a Barbarian.

You could give her something with a strong will save to help with the "Frezy" aspect. Maybe Bard, but that sounds like it might be too intensive.

Some sort of Dragon would be good, it would boost her will save at the very least and give some nice passive abilities.

Hmmm... A Ghost template with "Ghostly Grasp" feat from Libris Mortis would give her all the benefits of incorporeality, and near total indestructibility, as well as the ability to wield weapons and interact with the world based on how your DM handles incorporeal strength score.Could do. Keep 'em coming!

Prak
2009-10-21, 08:07 PM
any form of caster sounds like it'd give her too many options. She needs a class with passive abilities, and a few combat options.

Charlie Kemek
2009-10-21, 08:34 PM
there's always spirit shaman. probably the most simple magic system in the game, and fun too, and not overpowering. I second the warlock/DFA also. there is also the option of a scout/ranger with swift hunter. could use wands and cast healing spells, in addition to being very mobile. very simple combo. could do same with scout rouge, or even scout rogue and ranger.

Prak
2009-10-21, 08:38 PM
even wands are probably too much for this player*. She doesn't want to play, she wants to socialize, give her a character with an axe and point the way to the bad guy. That's really all she wants to handle.

*I don't know, obviously, as I don't know her, but from what's been described...

Charlie Kemek
2009-10-21, 08:46 PM
even wands are probably too much for this player*. She doesn't want to play, she wants to socialize, give her a character with an axe and point the way to the bad guy. That's really all she wants to handle.

*I don't know, obviously, as I don't know her, but from what's been described...

there's always a spell free ranger variant, which gets you a few things. you could also do something along the lines of rouge 3/scout 1/ranger 2-3/scout X, and maybe take dervish on the other side. this gets you no spells, and a lot of cool movement options. just take whirling frenzy variant on the barbarian, and have her attack with a bow (mainly) or a great-sword/axe, and make her able to fly (raptorian, etc.)

elonin
2009-10-21, 09:46 PM
I'd go with the barbarian scout if she doesn't like casting.

Lycanthromancer
2009-10-22, 08:43 PM
I just might have to consider scout. It'd certainly make for a better charger. Lion Totem FTW!

Jack_Simth
2009-10-22, 08:59 PM
Hmmm... A Ghost template with "Ghostly Grasp" feat from Libris Mortis would give her all the benefits of incorporeality, and near total indestructibility, as well as the ability to wield weapons and interact with the world based on how your DM handles incorporeal strength score.

Unlike most incorporeal creatures, Ghosts actually have a strength score. It just doesn't normally apply on the material plane. So the question of what a ghost's strength is depends on what was rolled.

...

Lycanthromancer:
Lion Totem Barbarian//Scout?

That's... yeah, that'd work. Quite well. Very much the "hulk smash" character. Rage, Charge up to your opponent, and kill it. Generally in one round.

avr
2009-10-22, 09:02 PM
I suggested this the last time someone asked for gestalt character ideas: Barbarian//Binder.

You get a handful of options, which can be changed when you have time to plan but not on the spur of the moment. Some of those options are extra feats or combat abilities which can work well for a barbarian, and Binder encourages a reasonable charisma and some social skills which is important to keep a casual player interested out of combat.

Lycanthromancer
2009-10-23, 04:34 PM
I asked the DM about using scout, and he says it's too complicated.

Apparently in the previous game, when she played a barbarian/frenzied berzerker, even that was too complicated for her. She's not dumb; she just has absolutely no interest in the mechanics whatsoever, so...yeah.

Grumman
2009-10-23, 05:00 PM
I asked the DM about using scout, and he says it's too complicated.
Too complicated? How about Lion Totem Barbarian // LA / War Hulk? Throw in 2 levels of Dungeon Crasher Fighter if you've got the room. You don't get much simpler than "charge and smash stuff".

Wings of Peace
2009-10-23, 05:23 PM
I liked the Barb on one side. Keep that and get her to go Frenzied Barb. Power attack is easy to optimize and simply devastating at higher levels. I would recommend to her working in Ranger and Revenant Blade on her other side of the Gestalt as frankly all those extra attacks are nice.

Another option would be have her go War-Forged Juggernaut on the other side and then go into Re-Forged for two levels. It's a little sloppy but the benefit is that you have your Barb side doing it's thing for offense. The nice thing about Re-Forged is that it will un-complicate things for her somewhat as she will keep all the nice Juggernaut goodies but get back her ability to heal from magic and gain the power to heal naturally.

I strongly agree with those who say Barb though. It's easy, Power Attack is a good mechanic, and it gets lots of hit points. Hell if she does the War-Forged approach have her go Dragonborn for the extra hp.

elonin
2009-10-23, 07:19 PM
Scout is easier than a rogues damage. They don't have to sneak to get their precision damage, just move 10' then attack someone who can be critted.

Prak
2009-10-24, 01:34 PM
Maybe someone should talk to her and see if she actually has any interest in playing, or if she just wants to hang out with the group. In my experience, someone just hanging out, enjoying company is generally not too bad.

Adumbration
2009-10-24, 01:50 PM
I'm going to go ahead and second the rogue for this purpose. Although it is highly unlikely - by your description - that she'll actively use sneak attack, the large pool of skill points will not go amiss, and the trapfinding is another feature that will help greatly.

Another option might be the Generic Expert (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#expert) from UA.

Lycanthromancer
2009-10-24, 04:51 PM
Hmm. Martial variant rogue?

Or, since she's the wife of another player, a marital rogue?

dspeyer
2009-10-24, 05:43 PM
Swordsage is a great pairing for barbarian. Strikes which do extra damage or effects with str-based dcs stack nicely with rage. 6+int skills and a decent combined list. Wiz-to-ac can be handy too. It does make a more complex character.

Rogue (either sa or feats) or scout work well too.

For a low-complexity option, try either warlock or a big monster.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-24, 05:44 PM
a marital rogue?

Don't you mean a marital rouge? :smallbiggrin:

Lycanthromancer
2009-10-24, 06:06 PM
It does make a more complex character.If you're talking about RP-complexity, that's all fine and good, but a straight barbarian is too complicated for her, and it's about as simple as you can get. I'm just wanting something that doesn't pile on anything more complicated and still adds to her survivability in a gestalt party.

It's a lot to ask, I know. This is why I needed help in the first place.

I'll talk to the DM when he gets back about making her an ogre, half-giant, or orc barbarian//martial rogue.

Wings of Peace
2009-10-24, 06:12 PM
If you're talking about RP-complexity, that's all fine and good, but a straight barbarian is too complicated for her, and it's about as simple as you can get. I'm just wanting something that doesn't pile on anything more complicated and still adds to her survivability in a gestalt party.

It's a lot to ask, I know. This is why I needed help in the first place.

I'll talk to the DM when he gets back about making her an ogre, half-giant, or orc barbarian//martial rogue.

If straight Barbarian is too complex then have her go Fighter and let her husband manage her skills. Either way I still strongly suggest a Power Attack build. Yes Sneak and Skirmish are good. They are also situationally good, she has to think about her position or actions to do them though Skirmish less so than sneak. Power Attack is -always- good and easy to optimize. She doesn't necessarily even need to rage to make full use of it. Just tell her to move so much per round, assume she is charging, and have her PA. It's a pretty simple process.