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Johanas
2009-10-23, 03:41 PM
Howdy Playgrounders. I've been working on a class lately, and I would like some input.

This is based along the lines of the Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, and Warmage. Instead of Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy, or Evocation, the Caller deals with Abjuration and Conjuration. Casting is done the same way, with the spells known list being the same as his spells known. I added in the Advanced Learning class feature, just like the others have, to expand the spell list a bit.

Note: Not as awesome as the Giant with the grid work...so I'll just mention here: Low BAB, High Will Save.


Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d6.

Class Skills
The caller's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) X 4.
Skill Point at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.


Level Class 1
1 Abjuration's Warden, Calling (extended summoning), Templated Summoning: Celestial/Fiendish)
2 Augment Summoning
3 Templated Summoning: Draconic, Advanced Learning
4 Defensive Abjuration
5 Calling (Fast Casting: Standard Action ), Persistent Magic
6 Templated Summoning: Half-Elemental, Winged
7 Advanced Learning
8 Calling (Fast Casting: Move Action)
9
10 Persistent Magic
11
12 Templated Summoning: Half-Celestial, Half-Fey, Half-Fiend
13 Defensive Abjuration
14 Advanced Learning
15 Dual-Transmuted Summoning
16
17
18 Templated Summoning: Air Element Creature, Anarchic Creature, Axiomatic Creature, Earth Element Creature, Fire Element Creature and Water Element Creature
19 Advanced Learning
20 Templated Summoning: Monster of Legend





Class Features:

All the following are class features of the caller.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Callers are proficient with all simple weapons, one martial weapon of his choice. His choice of martial weapon is made when the character takes his first level of caller and cannot be changed.
Callers are also proficient with light armor, but not with shields. The somatic components required for caller spells are simple, so members of this class can cast caller sells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. He still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells derived from other classes. In addition, if a caller wears medium or heavy armor, or uses a shield, he still incurs the same chance of arcane spell failure as any other arcane caster if the spell in question has a somatic component (and most do).

Spells: A caller casts arcane spells (the same type of spells available to sorcerers and wizards), which are drawn from the caller spell list given below. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time the way a cleric or wizard must. When a caller gains access to a new level of spells, he automatically knows all the spells for that level listed on the caller's spell list. Essentially, his spell list is the same as his spells known list. Callers also have the option of adding to their existing spell list through their advanced learning ability as they increase in level (see below).
To cast a spell, a caller must have a Charisma score of 10 + the spellís (Cha 10 for 0-level spells, Cha 11for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a callerís spell is 10 + the spellís level + the callerís Charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, a caller can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. In addition, he receives bonus spells for a Charisma score (see Table 1-1, page 8 of the Playerís Handbook).
Unlike a cleric or a wizard, a caller need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level.

Abjurationís Warden (Su): The caller knows how to summon magical servants, and he knows how to dismiss them. This knowledge, coupled with an incredible understanding of abjuration magic make the caller a spell force to be reckoned with. A caller adds his class level to dispel checks to dispel a summoned creature not under his control. He also adds half his class level (rounded down) to all other dispel checks.

Calling (Su): A caller casts a limited number of spells, but he can apply unique abilities to them to enhance their effects. As he increases in class levels, he learns the ability to extend a summoned monsters summon duration and to decrease casting time.

Extended Summoning: At 1st level, the caller unlocks the rudimentary abilities of calling. He can choose to apply the benefits of the Extend Spell feat to any conjuration (summoning) spell he casts without extending the casting time or using a higher spell level.

Fast Casting: At 5th level, the caller learns to speed up casting of his conjuration spells. 3 times a day, he can reduce the casting time of a full-round casting time conjuration spell to a standard action. At 8th level, this upgrades to any full-round or standard action casting time spell being reduced to a move action.

Templated Summoning (Su): At 1st level, the caller learns to apply templates to his summoned creatures. All template-based changes to creatures must still be legal, and no more than one template may be applied at a time (see the dual-transmuting class feature below).
At 1st level, he can apply the celestial or fiendish template to his summoned creatures. A good-aligned caller can only use the celestial template, and an evil-aligned caller may only use the fiendish template. A neutral-aligned caller may choose one or the other, but once chosen, the choice is permanent. If the caller is summoning a creature that already has the celestial or fiendish templates applied, he may remove the existing template and apply the other, as appropriate within his alignment and chosen template. For example, if a 1st level, good-aligned caller was summoning a fiendish viper with the summon monster I spell, he could instead summon a celestial viper. If he summons a creature with the template appropriate to his alignment (for instance, a celestial dog for a good-aligned caller), and it already has the appropriate template applied, he may instead give it a +2 bonus to itís Str and Con for the duration of the summoning. This stacks with similar effects (such as the Augment Summoning feat). If that same caller was evil, and summoning a fiendish viper, he could instead give it a +2 Str and Con.
At level 3, he learns the ability to apply the draconic creature template.
At level 6 he learns to apply the pseudonatural template, and the winged creature template.
At level 12 he learns to apply the half-celestial, half-fey, and half-fiendish templates. Good-aligned callers cannot apply the half-fiendish template, and evil-aligned callers cannot apply the half-celestial template. Neutral callers who chose the celestial template must choose the half-celestial template, and those who chose the fiendish template must choose the half-fiend template. Once chosen, the choice is permanent.
At level 18, he learns to apply the air element creature, anarchic creature, axiomatic creature, earth element creature, fire element creature and water element creature templates. A lawful-aligned caller cannot choose the anarchic creature template, and a chaotic caller may not choose the axiomatic creature template. A neutral caller must choose either the anarchic creature or the axiomatic creature template, and once chosen, the choice cannot be changed.
At level 20 he can apply the monster of legend template.

Advanced Learning (Ex): At 3rd, 7th, 14th, and 19th level, a caller can add a new spell to his list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation. The spell must be a wizard spell of the abjuration or conjuration schools, and of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell the caller already knows. Once a new spell is selected, it is forever added to that callerís spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on the callerís list.

Defensive Abjuration (Su): At 4th level, the caller learns to enhance his defensive abjuration spells by adding half his class level to one abjuration (force) spellĎs effect. This ability is usable once a day. At 13th, he learns to instead apply his daily use of Defensive Abjuration to the DC needed to break free of planar binding and magic circle against spells. This bonus applies to the DC to dispel the spell, or dismiss/banish the creature said spell called as well.

Persistent Magic (Su): At 5th level, the caller gains the ability to give one of his spells the benefit of the Persistent Spell feat. This can only apply to an abjuration spell he knows and can cast. At 10th, he gains the ability to apply this to a conjuration spell he knows and can cast at any spell level he has access to, minus one. For example, a 10th level caller cast up to summon monster V, but if he is using the Persistent Magic class feature, he can only cast a summon monster spell up to summon monster IV. This allows him to have a long-lasting defensive spell, and at level 10, a minion that lasts all day.

Dual-Transmuting (Su): At level 15, a caller learns to apply a second template to his summoned creatures.


Caller Spell List:
1st Level Caller Spells
Alarm
Endure Elements
Entropic Shield
Mage Armor
Mount
Obscuring Mist
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Shield
Shield of Faith
Summon Monster I
Unseen Servant

2nd Level Caller Spells
Glitterdust
Glyph of Warding
Protection from Arrows
Resist Energy
Shield Other
Summon Monster II
Summon Swarm

3rd Level Caller Spells
Dispel Magic
Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Phantom Steed
Protection from Energy
Stinking Cloud
Summon Monster III

4th Level Caller Spells
Dimensional Anchor
Dismissal
Evardís Black Tentacles
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser
Leomundís Secure Shelter
Minor Creation
Planar Ally, Lesser
Solid Fog
Spell Immunity
Summon Monster IV

5th Level Caller Spells
Break Enchantment
Cloudkill
Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Dismissal
Leomundís Secret Chest
Major Creation
Mordenkainenís Faithful Hound
Mordenkainenís Private Sanctum
Planar Binding, Lesser
Spell Resistance
Summon Monster V
Wall of Stone

6th Level Caller Spells
Acid Fog
Antimagic Field
Banishment
Dispel Magic, Greater
Forbiddance
Globe of Invulnerability
Glyph of Warding, Greater
Guards and Wards
Planar Binding
Planar Ally
Repulsion
Summon Monster VI
Wall of Iron

7th Level Caller Spells
Drawmijís Instant Summons
Mordenkainenís Magnificent Mansion
Planar Binding, Greater
Planar Ally, Greater
Summon Monster VII

8th Level Caller Spells
Antimagic Field
Dimensional Lock
Incendiary Cloud
Prismatic Wall
Protection from Spells
Summon Monster VIII

9th Level Caller Spells
Freedom
Gate
Imprisonment
Mordenkainenís Disjunction
Prismatic Sphere
Summon Monster IX


Please give me some input, thoughts, suggestions, and advice. This is the first base class i've written, so bear with me here. And please, just constructive criticism.

Person_Man
2009-10-23, 03:48 PM
This belongs in the homebrew forum. You should also consider putting it into a chart (just go to the homebrew forum, find one in someone else' post, "Quote" it, and then edit it. It's easy to to in Excel) so that it's more legible. You also need to re-word the spellcasting section so that it's more like other spontaneous casters (like the Sorcerer), and come up with some abilities for the dead levels. I'd also say that the class is extremely powerful (which may or may not be your goal).

Zeta Kai
2009-10-23, 03:49 PM
Well, I've seen many threads in the Homebrew forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=15) that don't belong there, but I almost never see a thread that should go there anywhere else. :smallconfused:

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Abjuration's Warden, Calling (extended summoning), Templated Summoning: Celestial/Fiendish)
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Augment Summoning
3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Templated Summoning: Draconic, Advanced Learning
4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Defensive Abjuration
5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Calling (Fast Casting: Standard Action ), Persistent Magic
6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Templated Summoning: Half-Elemental, Winged
7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Advanced Learning
8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|Calling (Fast Casting: Move Action)
9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|
10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Persistent Magic
11th|+5|+3|+3|+7|
12th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8|Templated Summoning: Half-Celestial, Half-Fey, Half-Fiend
13th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8|Defensive Abjuration
14th|+7/+2|+4|+4|+9|Advanced Learning
15th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+9|Dual-Transmuted Summoning
16th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10|
17th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10|
18th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Templated Summoning: Air Element Creature, Anarchic Creature, Axiomatic Creature, Earth Element Creature, Fire Element Creature and Water Element Creature
19th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Advanced Learning
20th|+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|Templated Summoning: Monster of Legend[/table]

Johanas
2009-10-23, 04:03 PM
1. WOW Thanks to both of you, that pretty much solves my grid problem! :smallsmile:

2. Can I move a thread to another forum once it's been posted?

3. How powerful we talking? Like Tier 1? or somewhere in Tier 2 (which was about where I was trying for)?

4. Thanks again!

Akal Saris
2009-10-23, 05:05 PM
Hey Johanas, I like the class. I'd say that taking it straight through would probably be a tier 3 class, and mixed with multi-classing it could potentially be tier 1-2.

Suggestions:
-Remove the martial weapon - neither conjuration nor abjuration really favors weaponry. Maybe a whip or lasso or net would be appropriate.

-I'd replace Augment Summoning with Extended Abjurations. Make the caster take the feat, and give him a unique ability instead!

-Fast Calling: at higher levels, 3/day is not going to be enough times/day I think - maybe fill in the dead levels for the class with more times/day. Also, 3.5 has no other classes with move action casting - this should probably become swift action casting instead.

-I'd add another Advanced Learning at 11th to avoid a dead level - besides, 7 levels is a long time in between new 'other book' spells!

-Persistent Magic: I would seriously consider removing this ability - It's not even necessary really, given that you can cast Lesser Planar Binding at this level. It's also potentially game-breaking, as some abjurations have a very short duration but are extremely powerful.

-Templated casting: I'd get rid of monster of legend at the end, and put dual-transmuted summoning there instead. In place of dual-transmuted I'd probably put the axiomatic/anarchic templates.

Spells:
Add: Some non-core or unique spells would be good, and maybe 1-2 spells to buff your summons such as Animal Growth or Haste. The Spell Compendium has a few of these worth looking into.

Good luck with the class - I know I'd play it if given the opportunity =)

Johanas
2009-10-23, 05:19 PM
Thanks. That is a lot of great input. Exactly what I was looking for. I was kinda on the fence about the martial weapon, and adding more advanced learning already, so those changes will definitely be made. I think you're right about moving the rest around too. One problem I had with it was too many levels with a whole bunch of stuff, and a few too many dead levels. Needs more balancing.

Any thoughts on the spell list?

Johanas
2009-10-24, 05:57 PM
Aaaaaaaaand moved to the homebrew forums. Thanks to the Sheriff.

Baron Corm
2009-10-24, 06:18 PM
Why does "The Caller" cast Abjuration spells? I think you need to work on the flavor of this class a bit. What sort of class combines warding and summoning?

Johanas
2009-10-24, 06:25 PM
Every summoning class casts warding and summoning spells. It's both a flavor thing and a balance thing. Flavor, in that it is very cliche to be summoning outsiders who're trapped in a severely warded summoning circle, and balance, because, frankly...just summoning can be kinda boring. This gives the class more to do in combat than just summon, and a whole lot more out of combat as well. Not to mention, making the relevant spells on the spell list a much more expanded list. Not just 4-5 spells a level.

Set
2009-10-24, 06:34 PM
Why does "The Caller" cast Abjuration spells? I think you need to work on the flavor of this class a bit. What sort of class combines warding and summoning?

That's the whole point of the traditional Summoner. It's not enough to call things up, you also have to able to draw magic circles to hold them. These two schools were pretty much made to go together in this way (in fact, without magic circle of X, he wouldn't be able to use Planar Binding at all, which would make him a pretty lame 'caller,' being forbidden to use the primary 'Calling' spells of Conjuration. :)

Plus there's this helpful bit of arcane advice;
"Do not call up what you cannot put down."

It's a pretty potent class, and seems like it would be every bit as fun as the Dread Necromancer.

My quibble would be the use of Extend Spell as a 'freebie.' I'd give the Caller the ability to add his Cha modifier (minimum 1) as bonus CL to determine the duration of Abjuration and Conjuration spells. A 1st level Caller with Cha 16 casting Shield or Summon Monster I would get 4 rounds of duration out of it, while a 10th level Caller with Cha 20 would get 15 round of duration from those spells. This would give the caster a reason to actually take and benefit from the Extend Spell feat (which double the total duration, since it would be a bonus to effective CL to determine duration).

Johanas
2009-10-24, 06:46 PM
That's the whole point of the traditional Summoner. It's not enough to call things up, you also have to able to draw magic circles to hold them. These two schools were pretty much made to go together in this way (in fact, without magic circle of X, he wouldn't be able to use Planar Binding at all, which would make him a pretty lame 'caller,' being forbidden to use the primary 'Calling' spells of Conjuration. :)

Plus there's this helpful bit of arcane advice;
"Do not call up what you cannot put down."

It's a pretty potent class, and seems like it would be every bit as fun as the Dread Necromancer.

My quibble would be the use of Extend Spell as a 'freebie.' I'd give the Caller the ability to add his Cha modifier (minimum 1) as bonus CL to determine the duration of Abjuration and Conjuration spells. A 1st level Caller with Cha 16 casting Shield or Summon Monster I would get 4 rounds of duration out of it, while a 10th level Caller with Cha 20 would get 15 round of duration from those spells. This would give the caster a reason to actually take and benefit from the Extend Spell feat (which double the total duration, since it would be a bonus to effective CL to determine duration).

That is an incredibly useful idea. I will definitely make that revision. I am making a few revisions on the side, and will post the updated class soon. Thank you Set. I may take out Augment Summoning, and give a similar class feature that stacks or something too. I know there aren't too crazy many feats out there for summoners, so I want to make sure they have something they feel that they can take to fit the class.

ShadowsGrnEyes
2009-10-25, 05:55 PM
I like it, deffinetly a class i would like to play, i've always been fond of summoner flavor but standard summons are usually so weak. this really seems to compensate.

Frosty
2009-10-25, 06:40 PM
Hmm...if you PrC into Malconvoker...

deuxhero
2009-10-25, 06:43 PM
Level 8 seems too early to break the action economy like making key spells use move actions instead of standard actions.