Dinosaurs! II

[hamishspence]

Seeing as the old thread has not been posted to for a month, I figured it was time to put up a new one.

What dinosaurs (and possibly other prehistoric creatures) do you think need re-statting?

And what do you think of the re-statted versions in the EN World thread:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/homebrews/266148-reviewing-revising-finalizing-prehistoric-animals-dinosaur-ecology.html

I was thinking of putting together stats for Deltadromeus (based on the Serpent Kingdoms ceratosaur, with extra hit dice, a speed boost and a reach boost (15 ft reach to go with its 15 ft space). As the largest ceratosaur, I figured it would be nice to stat it out.

Also, can we not derail this one into a size argument?

[Debihuman]

Those threads refer back to the old dinosaur over on Wizards of the Coast site which has been revamped and most of the links are broken. Aside from the paleoentology-obsessed, I'm fine with whatever stats come up.

Debby

[hamishspence]

Ah.

Still, at least there are a few stats in the actual thread.


Deltadromeus

Huge animal
Hit Dice: 16d8+72 (144 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (-2 size, +2 Dex, +5 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+27
Attack: Bite +17 melee (4d8+10 or Powerful Charge 4d8+10 plus 3d6)
Full Attack: Bite +17 melee (4d8+10)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Rend 2d8+10, Powerful Charge
Special Qualities: Low light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +12, Will +7
Abilities: Str 25, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Listen +10, Move Silently +8, Spot +11
Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Run, Improved Toughness, Powerful Charge
Environment: Warm forests
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (3-8)
Challenge Rating: 8
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 17-20 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: -

Measuring up to 44 feet from nose to tail, and weighing up to 7000 pounds in weight, Deltadromeus walks on two long, slender, but strong legs, and is an extremely swift runner for its size.

COMBAT

Deltadromeus tries to catch prey by surprise, then relies on its speed and its powerful jaws to make the kill. When hunting in a pack, one usually makes its presence known, causing prey to bolt into the waiting jaws of its fellows.

Rend (Ex): When Deltadromeus wins a grapple check after a successful bite attack, it establishes a hold, latching onto the opponent's body and shaking it to tear the flesh. This attack automatically deals 2d8+10 points of damage.

Also- for a link to the original Dinosaur Menageries WoTC thread- one that works- sort of:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19547154/Dinosaur_Menagerie?num=10&pg=1

(some of the links work- though not all)

I figured that it might be nice to see other people's takes on various prehistoric animals.

[hamishspence]

My best guess as to appropriate sizes for bipedal theropod dinosaurs:

Length 15 feet or less:
Medium, 1-5 Hit Dice
Raptorex (4 HD)

Length between 16 and 24 feet
Large, 6-8 Hit Dice, 5 ft reach
Australovenator (6 HD) Utahraptor (8 HD)

Length between 25 and 30 feet
Large, 9-11 Hit Dice, 10 ft reach
Ceratosaurus (9 HD) Allosaurus (10 HD) Gorgosaurus (11 HD)

Length between 31 and 39 feet
Huge, 12-17 Hit Dice, 10 ft reach
Megaraptor (12 HD) Torvosaurus (14 HD) Epanterius (15 HD)

Length between 40 and 49 feet
Huge, 18-24 Hit Dice, 15 ft reach
Tarbosaurus (18 HD), Tyrannosaurus (20 HD), Giganotosaurus (21 HD)

Length between 50 and 60 feet
Gargantuan, 25+ Hit Dice, 15ft reach: 50 ft long, 20 ft reach: 60 ft long
Spinosaurus (25 HD)

I use the Reach distance to differentiate between slightly smaller and slightly larger creatures within the same size category- there is precedent since some D&D monsters within the same size category vary in Reach- including dinosaurs.

[hamishspence]

It seems a bit quiet at the moment.

I was wondering which theropod groups are distinctive enough to deserve their own "type specimens" which can be advanced from, say, Small to Huge size.

A possible list of major groups- and the largest members of each:

Coelophysoidea-
Gojirasaurus

Ceratosauria-
Deltadromeus
Ceratosauridae- Ceratosaurus
Abelisauridae- Rajasaurus
Carnotaurini- Carnotaurus

Dilophosauridae-
Dilophosaurus

Tetanurae:
Megalosauroidea
Megalosauridae- Torvosaurus
Spinosauridae- Spinosaurus

Carnosauria
Sinraptoridae- Yangchuanosaurus magnus
Allosauridae- Allosaurus amplexus
Carcharodontosauria
Giganotosaurinae- Giganotosaurus
Neovenatoridae-
Chilantaisaurus
Megaraptora- Aerosteon

Coelurosauria
Tyrannosauroidea- Tyrannosaurus
Compsognathidae- Sinocalliopteryx
Ornithomimosauria- Deinocheirus
Maniraptora
Oviraptoridae- Gigantoraptor
Therizinosauridae- Therizinosaurus
Dromaeosauridae- Utahraptor
Troodontidae- Troodon

Does this seem like a reasonable list of major theropod groupings on which to build?

[hamishspence]

I'm sort of surprised this thread hasn't had more input- seeing how active the previous Dinosaurs! thread was.

Still, if it doesn't, it doesn't.

[Bhu]

Threads vary at times. The only reason the dino thread keeps going at wizards is because some of us continue posting regardless of comments. Its stuck around so long people drop out, but new people find it and drop in.

[hamishspence]

True.

On the bright side, the EN World one is thriving.

[Latronis]

Those threads refer back to the old dinosaur over on Wizards of the Coast site which has been revamped and most of the links are broken. Aside from the paleoentology-obsessed, I'm fine with whatever stats come up.

Debby

i was when i was a little fella.

Also your name is awesome, gotta appreciate a good pun.

But to stay on topic, I'm not big on stating out creatures, I find it the most boring aspect of homebrew. Still I will definately keep an eye on this

[Bhu]

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/091210_tawa

[hamishspence]

Now this is interesting.

Though if Herrerasaurus is a theropod (and one of the earliest) at what point did the theropods and sauropodomorphs diverge?

[Bhu]

SOuth America does seem to be the paleontologists dream of late doesnt it?

[AceofDeath]

My best guess as to appropriate sizes for bipedal theropod dinosaurs:

Length 15 feet or less:
Medium, 1-5 Hit Dice
Raptorex (4 HD)

Length between 16 and 24 feet
Large, 6-8 Hit Dice, 5 ft reach
Australovenator (6 HD) Utahraptor (8 HD)

Length between 25 and 30 feet
Large, 9-11 Hit Dice, 10 ft reach
Ceratosaurus (9 HD) Allosaurus (10 HD) Gorgosaurus (11 HD)

Length between 31 and 39 feet
Huge, 12-17 Hit Dice, 10 ft reach
Megaraptor (12 HD) Torvosaurus (14 HD) Epanterius (15 HD)

Length between 40 and 49 feet
Huge, 18-24 Hit Dice, 15 ft reach
Tarbosaurus (18 HD), Tyrannosaurus (20 HD), Giganotosaurus (21 HD)

Length between 50 and 60 feet
Gargantuan, 25+ Hit Dice, 15ft reach: 50 ft long, 20 ft reach: 60 ft long
Spinosaurus (25 HD)

I use the Reach distance to differentiate between slightly smaller and slightly larger creatures within the same size category- there is precedent since some D&D monsters within the same size category vary in Reach- including dinosaurs.

Just as I did on the former tread I do mostly agree with you definition of the size of the different kind of Dinosaurs and also the hit die you have given them.
Though Spinosaurus HD 25? why? I would just like to ask, sure it is longer then any other Theropod, as far as I know, but its pure physic wouldn't be quite as massive as giganotosaurus or tyrannosaurus, would probably only give it HD of the same amount as giganotosaurus OR just give the to later much higher Con score, which I'm while writting this down now realize would be obvious.....:smalltongue:

[hamishspence]

Spinosaurus weight estimates I've seen usually max out at around 9 tons. (there was a 16-20 ton estimate, but it was heavily criticised)

Tyrannosaurus weight estimates for Sue-sized specimens seem to be around 7 tons.

And Giganotosaurus weight estimates actually seem to be lower than Tyrannosaurus ones- around 5-6 tons:

http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Giganotosaurus

Given that, combined with this, length estimates for the Spinosaurus run to up to 59 ft long, whereas the other two seem to max out at around 44 ft long, I figured Spinosaurus can be justified as being in a higher size category.