PRC - Lethal Grappler

[Mongoose87]

Opinions requested.
Prerequisites:
Feats: Improved Grapple
BaB: +3


Lethal Grappler
Class Skills: Climb, Craft, Escape Artist, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Profession, Ride, Spot, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope
Skill Points: 6+int
Hit Die: D8
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Grapple Training, Deadly Wrestling

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|Grapple Maneuver

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|Superior Grappling

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|Grapple Maneuver

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1|

6th|
+6|
+5|
+5|
+2|Grapple Maneuver

7th|
+7|
+5|
+5|
+2|

8th|
+8|
+6|
+6|
+2|Grapple Maneuver

9th|
+9|
+6|
+6|
+3|

10th|
+10|
+7|
+7|
+3|Intrepid Hold[/table]

Class Features:

Grapple Training: The Lethal Grappler is always working to improve his techniques. Thanks to his dedication to constant training, he gains his level as a competence bonus to grapple checks.

Deadly Wrestling: Any time a lethal wrestler uses a light weapon or natural attack to deal damage in a grapple, he deals bonus damage as a Monk of his size and class level, in addition to his base damage. For example, a Medium 5th level Lethal Grappler who hits with a dagger would deal 1d8 damage in addition to his normal melee damage.

Grapple Training: At every even level, the Lethal Grappler chooses one grapple maneuver to learn.

Superior Grappling: A Lethal Grappler is much more difficult to restrain. Even if he loses a grapple check, he may still use light weapons to attack in the grapple. Furthermore, for every 10 damage he does with his Deadly Wrestling Ability, he imposes a -1 penalty on his opponent's grapple checks. This penalty is cumulative, but can only be achieved with bonus damage.

Intrepid Hold: The Lethal Grappler's training makes him a formidable foe, nigh on inseparable from an opponent, when he wants to be. Freedom of motion no longer works as normal, against a Lethal Grapple – it now only gives a +20 to grapple checks. Any spell cast upon someone grappled by the Lethal Grappler also affects the Lethal Grappler. This includes spells with a range of “personal.”

Grapple Maneuvers:

A Sizable Advantage: Though he may not be capable of restraining them, a Lethal Grappler with this maneuver is still capable of finding inconvenient places to cling to larger foes. When a Lethal Grapple initiates this maneuver, he transforms his opponent's size bonus to grapple into a penalty, for purposes of grappling the Lethal Grappler. However, the grappled opponent is still capable of moving taking actions if grappled, but with penalties. They suffer a 25% chance of spell failure, a -4 penalty to skill checks involving physical attributes, have their movement reduced by 1/3 and provoke an attack of opportunity from the Lethal Grappler every round they fail to remove him. The Lethal Grappler essentially rides his foe, doing his best to impede their every action.

Constrictor's Hold: Like a constrictor snake, the Lethal Grappler slowly crushes his foe to death. If he succeeds on a grapple check with a DC of 20+his opponent's Grapple modifier, the opponent must make a Fort save with a DC of 10+ class level + STR or lose 20% of his hitpoints. Each consecutive round the Constrictor's Hold is used imposes a -2 to this save. The opponent must already be grappled to initiate this maneuver. Objects with no discernible anatomy are immune to this.

Ties that Bind: A Lethal Grappler trained in this maneuver is adept at restraining a foe with rope, chain, shackles or the like. He may bind any character he has grappled (however, not using the “A Sizable Advantage Maneuver”). Any Escape Artists check made to remove his bindings are made against his grapple check, not a Use Rope check. The +10 bonus versus a a would-be escapee still applies.

Separation Anxiety: A Lethal Grappler is always of loathe to end a tussle. One trained in this maneuver is skilled at making foes pay for leaving his grasp. Any time he releases an opponent from a grapple, or fail a grapple check, he may make an attack of opportunity. If it hits, a Fortitude save at a DC of 10 + level + STR modifier is required, or the opponent is stunned.

Wall of Flesh: A Lethal Grappler trained in this technique is adept at using his opponents to shield himself from blows. When already grappling an opponent, he may take a grapple check with a -5 penalty to use an opponent as a shield. He gains an effective 50% miss chance, however, misses from this hit his shield. With an additional -5 penalty, he may do this maneuver with one hand.

Martial Throw: A Lethal Grappler proficient with this maneuver may hurl a foe he has grappled. He does not take the -4 penalty for using an improvised weapon, and both the thrown foe and any foes hit take damage equal to his Deadly Wrestling damage, plus his strength modifier, plus 1d6 for every size category above medium. This cannot be used in conjunction with the “A Sizable Advantage” maneuver.

Obviously, I need more maneuvers

[Temotei]

A Sizable Advantage: Though he may not be capable of restraining them, a Lethal Grappler with this maneuver is still capable of finding inconvenient places to cling to larger foes. When a Lethal Grapple initiates this maneuver, he transforms his opponent's size bonus to grapple into a penalty, for purposes of grappling the Lethal Grappler. However, the grappled opponent is still capable of moving taking actions if grappled, but with penalties. They suffer a 25% chance of spell failure, a -4 penalty to skill checks involving physical attributes, have their movement reduced by 1/3 and provoke an attack of opportunity from the Lethal Grappler every round they fail to remove him. The Lethal Grappler essentially rides his foe, doing his best to impede their every action.

Constrictor's Hold: Like a constrictor snake, the Lethal Grappler slowly crushes his foe to death. If he succeeds on a grapple check with a DC of 20+his opponent's Grapple modifier, the opponent must make a Fort save with a DC of 10+ class level + STR or lose 20% of his hitpoints. Each consecutive round the Constrictor's Hold is used imposes a -2 to this save. The opponent must already be grappled to initiate this maneuver. Objects with no discernible anatomy are immune to this.

Hmm...I like the idea of coming up to a great, hulking giant, and being able to crush it to death. :smallbiggrin:

Of course, as you said, you need more maneuvers. I would also recommend coming up with a capstone ability.

[Mongoose87]

Hmm...I like the idea of coming up to a great, hulking giant, and being able to crush it to death. :smallbiggrin:

Of course, as you said, you need more maneuvers. I would also recommend coming up with a capstone ability.

I was thinking about a capstone. Unfortunately, one was not forthcoming. There's only so much one can do with grappling. Hopefully something will come to me. As for maneuvers, I'm open to suggestions.

[Temotei]

Perhaps a maneuver that allows the lethal grappler to end a grapple on a painful note, in case of a failed check. That's all I've got so far. :smallconfused:

[DracoDei]

Bhu's Cat Burglar thread, of all places, has some rather interesting grappling maneuvers as PrC abilities and feats (at least I THINK a good number of them are feats)...

[DragoonWraith]

I'd comment that a lot of people are going to flip out about a PrC enterable at level 4. People don't like that (I do, but then I hate single-classing). Maybe add a requirement of 8 ranks in something appropriate? "Any Strength-related skill", perhaps? Or maybe Climb in particular, it seems most related to Grappling...

[Mongoose87]

I specifically want it to be either early entry for a high Bab, or regular for a Monk. I like it that way. Besides, it's a grapple-focused melee-type. It's not exactly the most insane thing in the world.

Also, I've just added some new maneuvers, if you check the first post, FYI.

EDIT: Still looking for a capstone. For some reason I envision some sort of "grapple over a distance" ability, but that's absurd.

[Temotei]

Separation Anxiety: A Lethal Grappler is always of loathe to end a tussle. One trained in this maneuver is skilled at making foes pay for leaving his grasp. Any time he releases an opponent for ma grapple, or fail a grapple check, he may make an attack of opportunity. If it hits, a Fortitude save at a DC of 10+level + STR is required, or the opponent is stunned.

I see you liked my idea. Good fluff. "for ma" should be "from a," and "10+level + STR" should be "10 + level + Str modifier." If it was just plain old strength, that would be insanely hard to avoid.

EDIT: Also...consider using the name "Meat Shield" for the current "Wall of Flesh." :smallbiggrin:

[Mongoose87]

I see you liked my idea. Good fluff. "for ma" should be "from a," and "10+level + STR" should be "10 + level + Str modifier." If it was just plain old strength, that would be insanely hard to avoid.

EDIT: Also...consider using the name "Meat Shield" for the current "Wall of Flesh." :smallbiggrin:

Ack! Meat shield is exactly what I was trying not to call it!

[DragoonWraith]

Skill Points: 6+int
Kinda high for a martial type. 4+Int seems more... well, more in line with other martial types. Debatable whether that is a good thing.


Hit Die: D8
This is definitely low. Grapplers should have d10.


Grapple Training: The Lethal Grappler is always working to improve his techniques. Thanks to his dedication to constant training, he gains his level as a competence bonus to grapple checks.
Total level or class level?


Deadly Wrestling: Any time a lethal wrestler uses a light weapon or natural attack to deal damage in a grapple, he deals bonus damage as a Monk of his size and class level, in addition to his base damage. For example, a Medium 5th level Lethal Grappler who hits with a dagger would deal 1d8 damage in addition to his normal melee damage.
Good idea.


Superior Grappling: A Lethal Grappler is much more difficult to restrain. Even if he loses a grapple check, he may still use light weapons to attack in the grapple. Furthermore, for every 10 damage he does with his Deadly Wrestling Ability, he imposes a -1 penalty on his opponent's grapple checks. This penalty is cumulative, but can only be achieved with bonus damage.
I'm kind of confused what the point of the Grapple check even is if he can do damage even on a failure? You should also state that the penalty goes away if the grapple ends, and further you should put a cap on it.


A Sizable Advantage: Though he may not be capable of restraining them, a Lethal Grappler with this maneuver is still capable of finding inconvenient places to cling to larger foes. When a Lethal Grapple initiates this maneuver, he transforms his opponent's size bonus to grapple into a penalty, for purposes of grappling the Lethal Grappler. However, the grappled opponent is still capable of moving taking actions if grappled, but with penalties. They suffer a 25% chance of spell failure, a -4 penalty to skill checks involving physical attributes, have their movement reduced by 1/3 and provoke an attack of opportunity from the Lethal Grappler every round they fail to remove him. The Lethal Grappler essentially rides his foe, doing his best to impede their every action.
Interesting. Not certain that it's enough, but it is interesting.


Constrictor's Hold: Like a constrictor snake, the Lethal Grappler slowly crushes his foe to death. If he succeeds on a grapple check with a DC of 20+his opponent's Grapple modifier, the opponent must make a Fort save with a DC of 10+ class level + STR or lose 20% of his hitpoints. Each consecutive round the Constrictor's Hold is used imposes a -2 to this save. The opponent must already be grappled to initiate this maneuver. Objects with no discernible anatomy are immune to this.
Whoa. I'm not familiar with anything that does %-based HP damage. That's pretty powerful. Also, can he do this repeatedly?

I really like the image of this, though, thinking about it.


Ties that Bind: A Lethal Grappler trained in this maneuver is adept at restraining a foe with rope, chain, shackles or the like. He may bind any character he has grappled (however, not using the “A Sizable Advantage Maneuver”). Any Escape Artists check made to remove his bindings are made against his grapple check, not a Use Rope check. The +10 bonus versus a a would-be escapee still applies.
OK, a neat little ability. I don't see a lot of Lethal Grapplers taking it, though.


Separation Anxiety: A Lethal Grappler is always of loathe to end a tussle. One trained in this maneuver is skilled at making foes pay for leaving his grasp. Any time he releases an opponent from a grapple, or fail a grapple check, he may make an attack of opportunity. If it hits, a Fortitude save at a DC of 10 + level + STR modifier is required, or the opponent is stunned.
Wow. That seems quite good.


Wall of Flesh: A Lethal Grappler trained in this technique is adept at using his opponents to shield himself from blows. When already grappling an opponent, he may take a grapple check with a -5 penalty to use an opponent as a shield. He gains an effective 50% miss chance, however, misses from this hit his shield. With an additional -5 penalty, he may do this maneuver with one hand.
AWESOME!


Martial Throw: A Lethal Grappler proficient with this maneuver may hurl a foe he has grappled. He does not take the -4 penalty for using an improvised weapon, and both the thrown foe and any foes hit take damage equal to his Deadly Wrestling damage, plus his strength modifier, plus 1d6 for every size category above medium. This cannot be used in conjunction with the “A Sizable Advantage” maneuver.
Hahaha, this is really cool too.


Obviously, I need more maneuvers
I think the most obvious thing is he needs an answer to Freedom of Movement.

[Mongoose87]

I think the most obvious thing is he needs an answer to Freedom of Movement.

Permanent Anti-Magic field? Heh, I don't know, that one's a doozy. If I ever get to sleep, I'll sleep on it.

Oh, and all abilities are class level based, not character. Sorry about the confusion.

I'm thinking it might not make sense to allow "Constrictor's Hold" and "Sizable Advantage" to work together.

I should have been more clear about superior grappling What I meant is that, even if someone grapples him he can use his light weapons, though my memory is telling me that's actually normal.

[Temotei]

EDIT: Still looking for a capstone. For some reason I envision some sort of "grapple over a distance" ability, but that's absurd.

Ranged Pin is a feat that allows you to pin a bit of clothing to a nearby surface. It's in Complete Warrior, if you care to look. Page 104.

[King of Nowhere]

I think the bonus to grapple check equal to his class level is too unbalaced. If you get a +10 to grappling your opponent almost for free, there's no way he can survive. I would let this ability, but lower the bab of the grappler to that of a cleric or a wizard. That way he would "only" get a +7 or +5 on a regular fighter, and it would accentuate his specialization in grappling

[Gnomo]

I think the capstone ability should negate Freedom of Movement and Dim Door from the enemy, maybe even more similar spells/powers.

[Mongoose87]

I think the capstone ability should negate Freedom of Movement and Dim Door from the enemy, maybe even more similar spells/powers.

This is what I've been leaning towards. Possibly something that cancels out Freedom of Movement and gives a chance of spell failure ,so there's still a chance of the wizard escaping.

[Barbarian MD]

I would suggest something that allows the grappler to hang on during a dimension door or freedom of movement.

As in:

Wizard: "I dimension door 30 feet away."
Grappler: "I hang on to the Wizard. I'm now 30 feet away, too." :smallwink:

For added bonus, you could even toss in a miss chance on the teleport, since you're screwing with the wizard's ability to aim his dimension door, but that's more flavor than useful.

And definitely negate freedom of movement, or at least counteract it. I saw in one of the fighter variants on this board the idea that freedom of movement is no longer an auto-win, but does gain a +20 to the check against someone with the feat.

[Mongoose87]

I would suggest something that allows the grappler to hang on during a dimension door or freedom of movement.

As in:

Wizard: "I dimension door 30 feet away."
Grappler: "I hang on to the Wizard. I'm now 30 feet away, too." :smallwink:

For added bonus, you could even toss in a miss chance on the teleport, since you're screwing with the wizard's ability to aim his dimension door, but that's more flavor than useful.

And definitely negate freedom of movement, or at least counteract it. I saw in one of the fighter variants on this board the idea that freedom of movement is no longer an auto-win, but does gain a +20 to the check against someone with the feat.

You just gave me the best idea, which will be up in two seconds.