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View Full Version : [3.5/PF] Tarrasque level progression?



Rixx
2009-10-28, 03:23 PM
I always thought a neat hook for a campaign would be the adventuring party stumbling across a Tarrasque in its infancy, and being charged with raising it to not become an engine of wanton mindless destruction. For some reason, I just love the image of a cheery band of adventurers walking down a dusty road, the party's halfling rogue perched happily atop his Medium-sized Tarrasque friend.

Is there a 1 to whatever-level-I-don't-even-know progression for a Tarrasque that can be modified to include size category advancements? How would one typically go about making a monster racial progression, anyhow?

t_catt11
2009-10-28, 03:40 PM
this... this is mind boggling.

jiriku
2009-10-28, 03:45 PM
Well, for a start, just take the monster advancement rules in the back of the MM and reverse them to de-level it. You'll probably need to shrink its natural armor and physical ability scores too. The progression charts for dragons should be a handy reference for devising a way to de-level those attributes.

zagan
2009-10-28, 03:45 PM
I love this idea, an I hereby proclam it awesome !

As for a progression, that's harder the tarrasque as 48HD that's a long progession.
Sorry, I can't be of more help.

Rixx
2009-10-28, 04:33 PM
Well, perhaps it would gain two hit dice per level? Pathfinder seems to go with the general rule that CR is a good ballpark for level, and the Tarrasque is CR 25 in the Bestiary, so 2HD per level would give it 48 hit dice by level 24.

I'd imagine it'd have a smooth progression for spell resistance and natural armor, as well, and gain its reflective carapace ability at mid-to-high levels (with the percent chance of a spell reflecting increasing to rest at 30%).

Shadwen
2009-10-28, 04:36 PM
I want a tarrasque pet....

hamishspence
2009-10-28, 04:55 PM
I remember reading somewhere that there was a sphere full of tarrasques in the Spelljammer setting- and that just because it is assumed that there is 1 per world- does not mean that this is always the case.

I could be remembering wrong though.

The notion of "baby tarrasques" is an interesting one.

There is already a CR 30 one in Dragon Magazine (the last printed issue) so it does not seem all that off, for there to be ones that are less than the normal CR.

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-28, 04:56 PM
1: It's been done, but it requires a Psion and shenanigans.

2: Totemist 20 covers most of the rules you need. Home Brew what's left.

Rixx
2009-10-28, 05:02 PM
There's also the issue of giving the players an ally that's essentially.. invulnerable. And probably more powerful than any of them, even in its infancy.

Though, the GM controlling the Tarrasque could rule that successful Handle Animal checks are required to get it to do what the players want (or to do anything at all) and it will only step in to protect the players if they've been especially kind to it.

Tanaric
2009-10-28, 05:04 PM
Personally, I'd make it require a complex skill check for Handle Animal - four successes, maximum of one failure. DC scales with the HD?

I mean, c'mon. It's the Tarrasque. Handling it like any other animal just seems too simple.

Rixx
2009-10-28, 05:11 PM
At the same time, requiring a complex skill check every time you want to give the Tarrasque an order would bog down combat something fierce.

I'd imagine the Tarrasque to be dangerous to even be around. Ironically, the players' role in combat would likely be to protect the Tarrasque, even though it's in the least danger of all - but if it consistently gets hurt in the presence of the players, it may come to regard them as dangerous, and might run away - or worse, lash out at them.

On the other side of the coin, if the players treat the Tarrasque as one of their own, feed it often (very often - I'm talking GP a day in food), protect it, and give it plenty of attention, the Tarrasque may end up defending them of its own volition, and be more receptive to commands and training.

Jastermereel
2009-10-28, 08:04 PM
There's also the issue of giving the players an ally that's essentially.. invulnerable. And probably more powerful than any of them, even in its infancy.

Though, the GM controlling the Tarrasque could rule that successful Handle Animal checks are required to get it to do what the players want (or to do anything at all) and it will only step in to protect the players if they've been especially kind to it.

Perhaps it is encouraging it to join in on your daily combat that makes it a rampaging menace. Instead of acting as a reliably powerful ally, it could be a considerable hindrance, with one or more players distracted from the threat of the day in an attempt to keep the Big-T from developing a taste for blood.

Cieyrin
2009-10-28, 08:39 PM
Probably a good source for making a progression would be taking a look at Savage Species with its Monster Classes. They're useful for determining adolescent versions of high HD creatures and for building up to higher power levels.

Starbuck_II
2009-10-28, 09:04 PM
I always thought a neat hook for a campaign would be the adventuring party stumbling across a Tarrasque in its infancy, and being charged with raising it to not become an engine of wanton mindless destruction. For some reason, I just love the image of a cheery band of adventurers walking down a dusty road, the party's halfling rogue perched happily atop his Medium-sized Tarrasque friend.

Is there a 1 to whatever-level-I-don't-even-know progression for a Tarrasque that can be modified to include size category advancements? How would one typically go about making a monster racial progression, anyhow?

So it would grow Savage Species-like? Main issue it has 48 HD and at least 1 LA.
What are its scores?
Str +34, DEx +6, Con +24, Int -6, Wis +4, and Cha +4.

Base Stats: +2 Str, +2 Con, -6 Int
From there it increases every level by +1 to a stat (Str, Dex, Con, Cha, or Wis) till reach full allotment.
AC: +30 NA
Abilities: DR, Immunities, Scent, SR, Carapace, Frightful Presence, Imp Grab, Swallow whole, rush, augmented Crit. Bite Attack.

Base Stats: +2 Str, +2 Con, -6 Int. DR 1/Epic. Swallow Whole (small or smaller) after biting foe. Rush (90 ft).

Level 1: 1d10, BAB +1, Base Will +0, Reflex/Fort +2. Grants Bite (1d8), 2 Claw (1d6), 2 horns (1d4), and 1 tail slap (1d6). +1 Str, +1 NA

I suggest Frightful presence around level 5.

UglyPanda
2009-10-28, 09:16 PM
I always thought the Big T was already a baby. It's like a kitten. It sleeps all day, then gorges, then sleeps some more.

sofawall
2009-10-28, 10:01 PM
What differences are there between 3.5 and PF Tarrasque?

Can it fly? Does it have a ranged attack?

If both of those are 'no', it's not even a CR 12, in my book.

EDIT: Or teleport, I guess... But no, you need some way to hit the Warlock flying above you hitting you, 24 hours a day (seeing as how they have at-will flight and ranged attacks).

Cieyrin
2009-10-28, 10:02 PM
So it would grow Savage Species-like? Main issue it has 48 HD and at least 1 LA.
What are its scores?
Str +34, DEx +6, Con +24, Int -6, Wis +4, and Cha +4.

Base Stats: +2 Str, +2 Con, -6 Int
From there it increases every level by +1 to a stat (Str, Dex, Con, Cha, or Wis) till reach full allotment.
AC: +30 NA
Abilities: DR, Immunities, Scent, SR, Carapace, Frightful Presence, Imp Grab, Swallow whole, rush, augmented Crit. Bite Attack.

Base Stats: +2 Str, +2 Con, -6 Int. DR 1/Epic. Swallow Whole (small or smaller) after biting foe. Rush (90 ft).

Level 1: 1d10, BAB +1, Base Will +0, Reflex/Fort +2. Grants Bite (1d8), 2 Claw (1d6), 2 horns (1d4), and 1 tail slap (1d6). +1 Str, +1 NA

I suggest Frightful presence around level 5.

Frightful Presence should probably occur after it gets to large size, at least, maybe even huge.

Mauril Everleaf
2009-10-28, 10:22 PM
Big T gains a ranged attack in Pathfinder. Check it out here. (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/tarrasque.html#tarrasque)

Ranged 6 spines +25 (2d10+15/3)

Random832
2009-10-28, 11:02 PM
So it would grow Savage Species-like? Main issue it has 48 HD and at least 1 LA.

Says who? Something carrying that many monster HD doesn't necessarily need an LA - maybe it should even have a negative LA - it is only a CR20, and it doesn't have any of those fancy "abilities that are much more powerful in the hands of players than monsters".

{table]ECL|HD|
1|1d10|Feat
2|2d10|
3|3d10|Feat
4|4d10|Feat
5|6d10|Feat
6|8d10|Feat
7|10d10|Feat
8|12d10|
9|15d10|Feat
10|18d10|Feat
11|21d10|Feat
12|24d10|Feat
13|27d10|Feat
14|30d10|
15|33d10|Feat
16|36d10|Feat
17|39d10|Feat
18|42d10|Feat
19|45d10|Feat
20|48d10|[/table]
The feat progression replaces the ordinary one of 1st level + every level divisible by three (since The T has 17 feats, the progression has to end with 17)

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-10-28, 11:07 PM
Just give it a ring of sustenance while its still young, and you're set for life. Or until some BBEG disjunctions it.I could even see that work against the full-grown version. You just have to trap it for a week. That shouldn't be hard. And the awesome points IMHO would outweigh the added difficulty.

Random832
2009-10-28, 11:12 PM
I could even see that work against the full-grown version. You just have to trap it for a week. That shouldn't be hard. And the awesome points IMHO would outweigh the added difficulty.

Trap it? You misspelled "lead it on a merry chase"

Eldariel
2009-10-29, 04:09 AM
Big T gains a ranged attack in Pathfinder. Check it out here. (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/tarrasque.html#tarrasque)

Ranged 6 spines +25 (2d10+15/3)

Woah...it lost half its HP. And most of its To Hit. Now a single level 20 Fighter could solo it :( WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO THE TARRASQUE?! It still doesn't have immunity to Ability Drain either (though at least Mind-Affecting Immunity helps) :/

That said, I think Random's progression seems right. Progressing it by CR just feels much more appropriate than progressing it by HD. And that means it gets progressively much harder to keep mellow.

Random832
2009-10-29, 07:50 AM
Well I'd partially been thinking in terms of a Tarrasque PC.

Starbuck_II
2009-10-29, 09:02 AM
Woah...it lost half its HP. And most of its To Hit. Now a single level 20 Fighter could solo it :( WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO THE TARRASQUE?! It still doesn't have immunity to Ability Drain either (though at least Mind-Affecting Immunity helps) :/

That said, I think Random's progression seems right. Progressing it by CR just feels much more appropriate than progressing it by HD. And that means it gets progressively much harder to keep mellow.

It doesn't have immunity, but it is now immortal. Wish isn't able to kill it anymore.

UglyPanda
2009-10-29, 09:30 AM
But doesn't that just mean you need two wishes then?

I wish my next wish is capable of stopping its regeneration.
I wish Big T stopped regenerating.

Devilboy
2009-10-29, 01:36 PM
It doesn't have immunity, but it is now immortal. Wish isn't able to kill it anymore.

If I recall, doesn't something like Flesh to Stone remove regeneration anyway?

Volos
2009-10-29, 02:23 PM
A Tarrasque as a pet... if you felt like god-slaying, this would be an awesome idea. Other then that, it would be kinda akward to figure out. That critter is perhaps the most difficult thing to kill ever, aside from a few of my own homebrew characters... shh... don't tell my players. Hmm... this idea is awesome, but perhaps a different monster?

Lord Denyuar
2009-10-29, 02:38 PM
I keep seeing people mentioning the Tarrasque as a pet. Everytime I just imagine a D&D dungeon Jabba's-Palace-style with Tarrasque instead of a rancor.

Eldariel
2009-10-29, 02:51 PM
It doesn't have immunity, but it is now immortal. Wish isn't able to kill it anymore.

Eh, without Ability Drain immunity, immortality is pretty useless. Getting drained to 0 Con kills it anyways and getting drained to 0 anything else effectively kills it anyways. And placing it in temporal stasis outside the timestream seems trivial. Hell, it'll take forever to even find its way out of a Maze. I'm underwhelmed by its immortality.

Lycanthromancer
2009-10-29, 02:54 PM
Don't forget about opening a gate to the elemental plane of water. Drowning is unaffected by regeneration.

Brendan
2009-10-29, 04:31 PM
Maybe it should be Awakened. a Tarrasque with 3d6+2 intelligence would be fantastic! If it rolls well it might eventually become a wizard, if possible, and that would just be deadly. A wizard with all of the regenerating abilities is a wizard who would never EVER go to -10hp.

Eldariel
2009-10-29, 05:04 PM
Maybe it should be Awakened. a Tarrasque with 3d6+2 intelligence would be fantastic! If it rolls well it might eventually become a wizard, if possible, and that would just be deadly. A wizard with all of the regenerating abilities is a wizard who would never EVER go to -10hp.

I'd fear a Cleric Tarrasque more. It has the Wis to pull it off anyways. Can you imagine a truly BUFFED-UP MELEE TARRASQUE? That Teleports all around the place, dispels all your defenses and eats your brains?

Cieyrin
2009-10-29, 07:07 PM
I'd fear a Cleric Tarrasque more. It has the Wis to pull it off anyways. Can you imagine a truly BUFFED-UP MELEE TARRASQUE? That Teleports all around the place, dispels all your defenses and eats your brains?

And eats everything else, too. It's not an illithid, for crying out loud! The Tarrasque knows nothing about serving sizes and proper portions!

Eldariel
2009-10-30, 02:54 AM
And eats everything else, too. It's not an illithid, for crying out loud! The Tarrasque knows nothing about serving sizes and proper portions!

One Shapechange later...

Cieyrin
2009-10-30, 10:54 AM
One Shapechange later...

And then people run in fear of a Cthulhu lookalike rampaging across the landscape.

http://www.macguff.fr/goomi/unspeakable/WEBIMAGES/CARTOON/v106_redhook.jpg

Lapak
2009-10-30, 11:06 AM
I always thought the Big T was already a baby. It's like a kitten. It sleeps all day, then gorges, then sleeps some more.This is amazing, and forces me to ask:

What does a Tarrasque grow up into?

Hat-Trick
2009-10-30, 06:47 PM
This is amazing, and forces me to ask:

What does a Tarrasque grow up into?

The next big bang?

Lycanthromancer
2009-10-30, 06:54 PM
The next big bang?

No, that's where baby tarrasques come from.

Hat-Trick
2009-10-30, 07:17 PM
I got it, Spheres of Annihilation!