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The Orange Zergling
2009-11-04, 02:51 PM
So, since the holidays are a vague speck on the horizon, I've begun to put thought on things to ask for. A 3.X D&D book crossed my mind, and then I realized that I had absolutely no idea what to decide on.

For the most part I'm looking for a mechanically good book, unless the fluff in it is really good or there is some other factor that would make it worth getting.

My current list of books is:

Player's Handbook
Player's Handbook II
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Eberron Campaign Setting
Complete Adventurer
Complete Warrior
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Tome of Battle
Cityscape
Exemplars of Evil
Frostburn
Sandstorm
Stormwrack
Savage Species
Libris Mortis

So yeah, anything that's worth checking out and not on the list?

lsfreak
2009-11-04, 03:02 PM
Magic of Incarnum is mechanically good and fluff-wise awesome. Takes a few readthroughs to grasp entirely, but a very good book.

Tome of Magic is almost worth it just for the binder. I'd rank it as fluff-wise the best class there is, there's just so much you can do with it. And it's mechanically powerful and can fill almost any role you can think of - tank, damager, caster, healer, party face, whatever. Shadowcaster is decent if you implement a few simple fixes.

Complete Scoundrel has some really good feats, introduces skill tricks (which are good), and has some really good prestige classes. Complete Mage likewise. Complete Champion isn't quite as good I'd say, but does offer a few very good things (Knowledge Devotion, Travel Devotion, and Lion Totem Barbarian essentially give Favored Enemy, Spring Attack, and every melee what they should have been from the start).

Thorcrest
2009-11-04, 03:02 PM
Another Monster Manual, either II or III, because in combat, more monsters=more fun

It gets boring fighting the same monsters game after game, session after session

Sinfire Titan
2009-11-04, 03:02 PM
Magic of Incarnum, Elder Evils, and the Eberron splats are all worth looking into.

DragoonWraith
2009-11-04, 03:07 PM
I definitely recommend Complete Scoundrel; it's my favorite of the Complete series, easily. Skill Tricks + class stacking feats + Malconvoker = win.

Magic of Incarnum is awesome, too.

Eldariel
2009-11-04, 03:09 PM
Dungeonscape has interesting stuff, including the Factotum and a lot of handy ACFs. You also already have Cityscape so adding it to the mix would just make all sorts of sense.

Complete Scoundrel is also great as is Complete Mage, and Complete Champion has a lot of great material even though it has its faults. Also, Magic of Incarnum is awesome and Tome of Magic has Binders which rock; Shadowcasters also have a decent fix package available online which helps them making them a usable part of the book too. Truenamers suck, but one great and one usable part is enough to make the book as a whole worthwhile.


Other than that, Spell Compendium & Dragon Magic are fine options if you're interested in adding just plain more spells to the game (Spell Compendium also somewhat balances a bunch of old nutty-good spells). And the Races of-series has really solid crunch, though obviously focused on the Races the book covers. There's some stuff for everyone.


But yeah, I'd start with Dungeonscape, Complete Scoundrel & Complete Mage and then look at Magic of Incarnum & Tome of Magic. Then Spell Compendium, Dragon Magic and then Complete Champion and the Races of-books.

alchemyprime
2009-11-04, 03:39 PM
My favorite book was Dragon Compendium. Why? Overall usefulness. New feats, new races, new classes, new PrCs (even if a few were weaksauce) and new monsters. And my favorite bits, the critical hit variant and the special poisons with descriptions. My players now fear pineapples. :smallbiggrin:

BooNL
2009-11-04, 03:49 PM
Dragon Magic is awesome, if you're into that sort of thing.

Any Races of X book is good, just pick your favourite race and presto, new options!

Magic Item Compendium and Spell Compendium are must haves (though I usually end up only using core spells most games... huh...), but don't really add any mechanics, just more options.

The Orange Zergling
2009-11-04, 03:53 PM
Thanks for your input, guys. :smallsmile:

Currently leaning towards Magic of Incarnum or Complete Scoundrel, but still haven't committed to anything.

peacenlove
2009-11-04, 04:11 PM
A player of yours wants to play a full caster with a theme based on darkness but the rest of your party is new (or not very well optimized)?

Tome of Magic's Shadowcaster + this homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74519) = The answer to your problems.
(tested on a campaign lasting 1,5 years and spanning till level 15)

Also i will second (or third or whatever) Magic Item Compendium and Spell COmpendium. They are must haves on a gaming table and reduce preparation time for the DM.

aje8
2009-11-04, 05:09 PM
You really want Magic Item and Spell Compendiums. They're something that will make almost any DnD game better.

Aside from those, Heroes of Horror is sweet. Arhivist and Dread Necromancer are both cool classes and the book as a whole has great fluff.

JonestheSpy
2009-11-04, 05:23 PM
Lords of Madness will give you all sorts of wonderful ways to wreck your players' day. Really good stuff there.

arguskos
2009-11-04, 05:27 PM
My favorite book was Dragon Compendium. Why? Overall usefulness. New feats, new races, new classes, new PrCs (even if a few were weaksauce) and new monsters. And my favorite bits, the critical hit variant and the special poisons with descriptions. My players now fear pineapples. :smallbiggrin:
Yes! THIS SO YES OMG! Dragon Compendium is like the best book ever. It's got a ton of great material in it, so much so that I can't even begin to explain how awesome it is. :smallamused:

It's a massive boon as a player, since it has new races, classes, prestige classes, gear, and feats. It's got new poisons, monsters, adventure advice, idea generators, and more, for the DM.

Best book ever. :smallamused:

Gnorman
2009-11-04, 09:12 PM
If you haven't already picked up the Fiendish Codices, I highly recommend both of them - the second is superior, but the first one's very, very good as well. They're going to be the handiest in a planehopping campaign, but they have other merits as well - Fiendish Codex II, for example, does a much better job of describing, explaining, and even justifying evil than the Book of Vile Darkness ever did. They're a bit light on player options, but if you're a DM, they're full of fiendish monsters to round out your catalogue, giving you demons and devils to throw at your players from level one all the way to level 20 and beyond.

If you're going to pick up a Monster Manual, get III or V. II is 3.0 and is full of CR misjudgments, uninteresting monsters, and meager fluff, while IV is basically about 50% monsters-with-class-levels / 20% Spawn of Tiamat, and therefore notably uninspired. MMII has a good spread of creature types for setting up a variety of encounters, while MMV's worth it for Xorvintaal and Thoon alone.

I second Complete Scoundrel (Malconvoker love from here unto infinity), as it's full of character options that make sense for any character, not just rogueish types. Complete Mage is an excellent resource for mages as well, but it's a little on the overpowered side (Master Specialist makes wizards just plain better). Lords of Madness is one of the best books in terms of fluff, but is still full of tons of useful crunch for an aberration-based campaign (though if you're going that route, I highly recommend MM V - THOON THOON THOON).

The Binder is one of the best-designed classes that WotC has ever printed, though it can be a bit daunting at first. It oozes flavor, is solidly balanced around the upper levels of Tier 3, and really does the jack-of-all-trades archetype up right. The section on Truenaming has wonderful fluff, but Wizards still can't figure out how to make the mechanic work properly.

In summary,

As a DM: Fiendish Codex I, Fiendish Codex II, Lords of Madness, MMII & MMV.

As a player: Complete Scoundrel, Complete Mage, & Tome of Magic.

As both: Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium are just plain fun. Tons of new options; relatively balanced. Just beware of the Belt of Battle.

Iku Rex
2009-11-04, 09:52 PM
Spell Compendium
Magic Item Compendium
Dungeonscape

The Orange Zergling
2009-11-04, 11:21 PM
Okay, I think I've made my choice with Complete Scoundrel and Magic of Incarnum, then. Thanks everybody! I'll keep the others in mind (particularly the more-suggested ones) for when I have more money. :smallsmile:

Vangor
2009-11-04, 11:39 PM
Spell Compendium as I cannot imagine attempting to play a caster anymore without this. As well, Lords of Madness offers a great deal of information for the most wonderful creature type possible: Aberration. My campaigns contain Aboleth, Beholders, Illithids, and Grell constantly with Half-Far Spawn, Pseudonatural, and Elder Eidolon creatures. The concepts are bizarre enough, if implemented well into a campaign, to keep adventurers alert and wary.

Zeta Kai
2009-11-04, 11:43 PM
Spell Compendium
Magic Item Compendium
Dungeonscape

This, basically. Plus Dragon Compendium (which has little to do with dragons, really).

arguskos
2009-11-04, 11:48 PM
This, basically. Plus Dragon Compendium (which has little to do with dragons, really).
I'd echo this, just for kicks. Dragon Compendium really can't be overstated enough!

AslanCross
2009-11-05, 03:49 AM
Monster Manual III is a pretty good monster book. What's particularly good about it is that it tells you how the monsters fit into Eberron. (It also has the Warforged Scout in it, which is a pretty cool alternative warforged race.)

Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium are also definitely good.

Finally, an Eberron splatbook would be nice---my favorite so far is either Races of Eberron or Magic of Eberron. Both have a great deal of interesting options.

JellyPooga
2009-11-05, 04:15 AM
Tome of Magic is almost worth it just for the binder. I'd rank it as fluff-wise the best class there is, there's just so much you can do with it.

Really? I've always thought it of a fairly restrictive class fluff-wise. It pretty much pidgeon-holes you into one character type, you don't have a huge number of options RE: PrCs and Feats and the Vestiges are somewhat limited in number and very specifically described. All these add to to mean that unless you start creating your own Vestiges or PrCs, you're quite limited in who and how you play one. That is, of course, without using it for dips or Multiclass characters, but even then you're still limited by the material that's been published.

Having said that, Tome of Magic isn't a bad book and Binder isn't a bad class either. The only problem with it is that there's not a lot of support for the material found there. Binders don't have many extra Vestiges, Shadowcasters only have the Mysteries found there and Truenamers...well, we don't talk about Truenamers. All said and done, I like it on the whole.

On the subject of Monster Manuals, MM III is far and above the best IMO. Poisondusk/Blackscale Lizardfolk, Harsaaf, Warforged (plus WF-Scouts and Chargers) and Arrow Demons head the list of a nice selection of (to my mind) well balanced critters that are useable from the Forgotten Realms to Eberron.

The Fiendish Codices are good for fluff, but a little lacking in mechanics. The Fiendish Heritor feats from FCI are frankly trash for such a potent idea (much like all the Heritage feats, I guess). Lords of Madness is similar...good for fluff, but not a lot of crunch you can sit down and play with.

Though the decision has already been made, my personal recomendation would be Heroes of Horror. I like both the fluff and cunch presented in it...unlike some splat books (Complete Champion, I'm looking at you :smallannoyed: ) it doesn't ramp the power level up and the classes and PrC's in it are interesting, thematic and well balanced.

arguskos
2009-11-05, 04:33 AM
Though the decision has already been made, my personal recomendation would be Heroes of Horror. I like both the fluff and cunch presented in it...unlike some splat books (Complete Champion, I'm looking at you :smallannoyed: ) it doesn't ramp the power level up and the classes and PrC's in it are interesting, thematic and well balanced.
Emphasis added. Also, yes, yes it does. Archivist is one of the Big 6 for a reason, not just for kicks. :smallwink: Beyond that, yeah, you're pretty much spot on, but Archivist deserves special mention for being bat**** crazy strong.

Note: I still LOOOOVE HoH. Fully recommended from me. Dragon Compendium! :D

JellyPooga
2009-11-05, 06:13 AM
Emphasis added. Also, yes, yes it does. Archivist is one of the Big 6 for a reason, not just for kicks. :smallwink: Beyond that, yeah, you're pretty much spot on, but Archivist deserves special mention for being bat**** crazy strong.

Note: I still LOOOOVE HoH. Fully recommended from me. Dragon Compendium! :D

Well, ok, Archivist is one of the big 6 but it's really just Wizard with a difference. It's not like HoH introduced Archivist before Wizards broke the game anyway. I don't see it a power-level increase, just a new top tier class. If it was really increasing power, it would have some feat or PrC that gave one of the Tier-1 classes even more power (like Complete Champion does with the Domain Feats).

Sinfire Titan
2009-11-05, 09:43 AM
I'd echo this, just for kicks. Dragon Compendium really can't be overstated enough!

YMMV really. It's 3rd party, and a lot of it is unbalanced one way or the other (Death Master is Dread Necromancer+, the PrCs are fairly underpowered, the feats are not really that good either). Paizo isn't known for being good at game design; they're better at Dungeons and Module design than anything.


The Crit chart is stupid and counter-intuitive though. You end up punishing the players more than helping them. I've used it in an actual campaign before, and the Fumbles are just too harsh to be used (DC 20 Dex Check or fall prone and be Stunned for 1d4 rounds?).

Necron
2009-11-05, 09:54 AM
If you're the DM then Unearthed Arcana can be pretty useful.

But otherwise I'd definately add my vote for the Spell Compendium... as that book will likely give you the most enhancement out of any particular supplement.

If you play more gear dependant classes then Magic Item Compendium isn't too shabby either.

Kaiyanwang
2009-11-05, 10:24 AM
I'd second UA, Complete Scoundrel and Spell Compendium (in this order), but seeing your list, the fisrt thing that came in my mind is:

"More monsters manuals!!!11!1!!"

EDIT: I meant MMII-V (first and foremost, MMIII), but do not overlook Fiend Folio.

Just, you could chew away a page with a metallic violet humanoid eagle that plays with time.