PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Star Hammer



Tetsubo 57
2009-11-07, 03:25 PM
OK. I'm trying out an idea for a 'spiked chain' that isn't stupid. Here is my attempt.

Star Hammer (Exotic, two handed)

The star hammer is a spiked ball on a length of chain.

25 gp, 1d6 (Small), 2d4 (Medium) 2, 5 lb., Bludgeoning and Piercing.

A star hammer has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against an adjacent foe.

You can make trip attacks with the chain. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the chain to avoid being tripped.

When using a star hammer, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails).

Berserk Monk
2009-11-07, 03:27 PM
First thing I thought when I saw this thread was Homestar Hammer.:smallbiggrin:

Cieyrin
2009-11-07, 05:12 PM
So morningstar on a chain that's non-finessable, huh? I suppose it's reasonable, though I'd just make it a bludgeoning weapon, so we can avoid that, by RAW, it works fine underwater.

Tetsubo 57
2009-11-07, 05:23 PM
So morningstar on a chain that's non-finessable, huh? I suppose it's reasonable, though I'd just make it a bludgeoning weapon, so we can avoid that, by RAW, it works fine underwater.

It does both Bludgeoning damage and Piercing damage. Since this happens simultaneously it won't function underwater and does not have the spiked chains issue.

Starbuck_II
2009-11-07, 05:56 PM
It does both Bludgeoning damage and Piercing damage. Since this happens simultaneously it won't function underwater and does not have the spiked chains issue.

Nope, you get the benefit of piercing then. Reread the weapon section of PHB.
You get the better of either type.

Tetsubo 57
2009-11-07, 06:06 PM
Nope, you get the benefit of piercing then. Reread the weapon section of PHB.
You get the better of either type.

The game world trumps the rules. Since you can not separate the spikes from the striking head, you can not separate the Bludgeoning damage from the Piercing damage. The solid Bludgeoning striking head delivers the Piercing spikes to your target. It's like trying to separate the arrow shaft from the arrow head.

If someone tried to tell me they were going to do Piercing damage with a morningstar but not do Bludgeoning damage as well I would say, no. I don't care if RAW says otherwise.

Feel free to do whatever you wish with the weapon I have posted.

Vic_Sage
2009-11-07, 06:13 PM
All you did was refluff a Spiked Chain and make it non-finessable. Congratulations, you barely changed anything!

DragoonWraith
2009-11-07, 06:18 PM
The game world trumps the rules.
So, in other words... you didn't actually have to homebrew anything?

sonofzeal
2009-11-07, 06:31 PM
I'm not really sure why it's non-finessable. I mean, it would require some strength to use, but so does a bow or sling or throwing dagger or shortsword or handaxe.

jiriku
2009-11-07, 06:44 PM
This weapon is well-balanced against other good exotic weapons. I'd certainly accept it in my campaign.

sonofzeal
2009-11-07, 07:11 PM
This weapon is well-balanced against other good exotic weapons. I'd certainly accept it in my campaign.
Would having it finesseable make it overpowered? The only real reason to use one for anything more than flavour is the trip, and trip + finesse is a bizarre combination. I don't think this is a significant balance concern.

Also, are exotic weapons balanced in general? Kama is useless (bad crit, no call for light tripping weapons). Nunchuk is worse than useless (disarms, but doesn't even counteract the penalty for being light). Sai is slightly better than the Nunchuck in that it actually counters its own penalty, but with 1d4 damage and no crit I can't see a valid reason for it. Siangham, worse than useless, absolutely no justification whatsoever. Bastard Sword / waraxe are an improvement, but you're paying a feat for +1 average damage, objectively worse than Weapon Spec, itself a rather weak feat (worth it if you get it for free though). Whip is pretty useless outside a couple CS skilltricks. The five double weapons are useless. The exotic ranged weapons are half decent though.

So, of all the exotic melee weapons in core, there's only two that would be worth using over Martial weapons, and even those two aren't worth a feat. Making Spiked Chain / Star Hammer balanced with them seems like going the wrong direction, it would be much better to try to make them balanced with it.

Starbuck_II
2009-11-07, 07:15 PM
Would having it finesseable make it overpowered? The only real reason to use one for anything more than flavour is the trip, and trip + finesse is a bizarre combination. I don't think this is a significant balance concern.

Who finesses a Str encouraging weapon?



So, of all the exotic melee weapons in core, there's only two that would be worth using over Martial weapons, and even those two aren't worth a feat. Making Spiked Chain / Star Hammer balanced with them seems like going the wrong direction, it would be much better to try to make them balanced with it.

Agreed. If a DM said Spiked Chain are no longer finesseable I'd shrug and say "um, whatever, I never do that."

Well, Gnomes can get Brave Brado Prc to use them well, but that is a specialized build.

Teron
2009-11-07, 07:43 PM
I don't suppose it was intended, but mechanically, the mixed damage types are actually better than being finessable. It beats a few more creatures' DR, lets you damage objects, and you can cast (greater) mighty wallop on it. The drawback only arbitrarily screws over high Dex-based characters who might want to use it for flavour, as if the feat tax and the fact that damage and tripping are Str-based weren't enough.

Tetsubo 57
2009-11-07, 08:15 PM
So, in other words... you didn't actually have to homebrew anything?

I consider the mechanical changes important. Also the physical description makes sense while the spiked chain doesn't. In addition this is a modification of the meteor hammer, a real world weapon. These things matter to me. You can do what you wish.

Tetsubo 57
2009-11-07, 08:18 PM
I'm not really sure why it's non-finessable. I mean, it would require some strength to use, but so does a bow or sling or throwing dagger or shortsword or handaxe.

This is a high strength weapon. The amount of force required to wield such a weapon is considerable. Again, I just presented it for other peoples consideration. If you find it wanting, ignore it, it isn't core.

SparkMandriller
2009-11-07, 08:28 PM
Are we allowed to put in requests? Because I think you should totally do a reworked HP system next.

Tetsubo 57
2009-11-07, 08:32 PM
Are we allowed to put in requests? Because I think you should totally do a reworked HP system next.

That might just be beyond my scope. :)

I like to play with weapons. Heck, it's the only thing I sketch. :)

Check my Deviant Art page if you like. I am more receptive to sketch requests. :)

Out of curiosity, what are you looking for in a HP system? What is your gripe with the current one? Not that you may not have a completely legitimate gripe with it mind you.

Yukitsu
2009-11-07, 08:36 PM
I think he's being sarcastic, pointing out that slightly obtuse weaponry is the least of the systems flaws.

Tetsubo 57
2009-11-07, 08:43 PM
I think he's being sarcastic, pointing out that slightly obtuse weaponry is the least of the systems flaws.

Hey, I've had odder requests. :)

Weapons are important to me. I've been researching them for 30+ years. My collection of reference books is larger than my city library. I've been sketching them for almost as long. Though my decent work is fairly recent. I have not purchased gaming books because the weapon illustrations were poorly done. I just really like weapons. Heck, there's a bow and a sword within 5' of me. :)

SparkMandriller
2009-11-07, 08:54 PM
That might just be beyond my scope. :)

Yeah, fixing 3.5 honestly seems like the sort of work that ends with someone sacrificing their life force to act as a seal for all eternity. And, I mean, it's DnD, when was the last time that worked for more than 5 minutes?

sofawall
2009-11-07, 10:22 PM
The only real reason to use one for anything more than flavour is the trip,

So people only use Spiked Chain for tripping? I thought it was for the tripping, the reach, the lack of dead-zone within the reach, the bonus on disarming (if you are so inclined), and the ability to two-hand it for Str and Power Attack bonuses.

Starbuck_II
2009-11-07, 10:27 PM
So people only use Spiked Chain for tripping? I thought it was for the tripping, the reach, the lack of dead-zone within the reach, the bonus on disarming (if you are so inclined), and the ability to two-hand it for Str and Power Attack bonuses.

Kusa-gari has same trip/disarm, no dead zone, and one handed.
Both can be 2 handed for Str/Power attack if so inclined.

The whip dagger is just as good since they nerfed the whip to not hurting anything.

sofawall
2009-11-07, 10:39 PM
Kusa-gari has same trip/disarm, no dead zone, and one handed.
Both can be 2 handed for Str/Power attack if so inclined.

The whip dagger is just as good since they nerfed the whip to not hurting anything.

...My point was entirely missed.

The poster said that people only use it for tripping, so something should be added. Sure, some things are as powerful as it. I don't really care. In fact, that is worse, if anything.