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Myrmex
2009-11-09, 12:43 AM
I am going to be playing a 3e one-shot dungeon crawl with a few friends on Wednesday, at level 1. I have an overwhelming urge to play a warforged cloistered cleric with DMM persist: lesser vigor & adamantine body.

This will pretty much be an unstoppable machine of death, if only because he will be ignoring so much damage/round and never have to worry about healing.

I mean, I really want to play an unstoppable machine of death (complete with HK-47 quips), but it's going to piss the DM off and mighty irritate the other players.

Wot should I do? I already said I'd play the tank (heh heh heh), but with a three man group in need of some healing, I don't know how to tank out effectively and cover the medic role.

lsfreak
2009-11-09, 12:49 AM
Crusader making liberal use of Martial Spirit and Crusader's Strike would be infinitely less cheesy and still able to provide a decent amount of healing at first level, I would think. If flaws are allowed, spiked chain tripper to really cover the tank part.

jiriku
2009-11-09, 12:50 AM
Maybe I'm just a powergamer at heart, but I don't see how fast healing 1 on a guy who's supposed to take damage breaks the game. And really, since you don't have the spell slots at 1st level prep both cure and repair spells, how else were you going to handle healing the party? As for healing, ensure that everyone worships the same deity you do, and prep faith healing (SC), which will heal 9 points per casting; at your level, that probably full-heals the other party members.

As far as avoiding a piss-off experience, I'd say just don't brag about your combo or even discuss how powerful your character is. Just steer the conversation to other player's characters; ask them about their characters and ask if there are any 1st-level spells you could prepare that they'd like for buffing purposes. (Bless is good.) If you're modest about your character, show an interest in their stuff, and put yourself at the group's disposal, I should think everyone will welcome your participation.

Myrmex
2009-11-09, 12:51 AM
Crusader making liberal use of Martial Spirit and Crusader's Strike would be infinitely less cheesy and still able to provide a decent amount of healing at first level, I would think. If flaws are allowed, spiked chain tripper to really cover the tank part.

No ToB cause no one's got the book. Otherwise I'd be all over that.

Ponce
2009-11-09, 12:54 AM
Is your ability to tank for everyone else (thus making reasonably sure that no one dies early and has to sit the rest of the game out) somehow going to reduce the enjoyment of everyone else? If not, then I don't see why you shouldn't play it.

Draz74
2009-11-09, 12:54 AM
I've seen an interpretation where Fast Healing 1 does nothing to benefit a Warforged, since they take half effect from healing and D&D rounds fractions down.

That would talk you out of it, no? :smallwink:

Myrmex
2009-11-09, 12:55 AM
Maybe I'm just a powergamer at heart, but I don't see how fast healing 1 on a guy who's supposed to take damage breaks the game. As for healing, ensure that everyone worships the same deity you do, and prep faith healing (SC), which will heal 9 points per casting; at your level, that probably full-heals the other party members.

The warforged is a LE godless cleric of undeath & planning. I doubt any of the fleshlings will even remotely share his faith.

At 25 gp each, I'm going to start with two scrolls of lesser vigor. That should patch guys up when things get nasty.

Low levels are all about being painfully aware of how few HP you have, and how very precious they are.


As far as avoiding a piss-off experience, I'd say just don't brag about your combo or even discuss how powerful your character is. Just steer the conversation to other player's characters; ask them about their characters and ask if there are any 1st-level spells you could prepare that they'd like for buffing purposes. (Bless is good.) If you're modest about your character, show an interest in their stuff, and put yourself at the group's disposal, I should think everyone will welcome your participation.

I am only going to get one bonus 1st level spell from wisdom, 1 from being a cleric, and a useless domain spell. This means only one spell outside of vigor for allies.

Also, I feel like if I don't explain exactly how I built the terminator at level 1, it'll look like I'm cheating.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-09, 12:59 AM
I've seen an interpretation where Fast Healing 1 does nothing to benefit a Warforged, since they take half effect from healing and D&D rounds fractions down.

That would talk you out of it, no? :smallwink:

It works on warforged because it's not Conjuration [Healing]. Or so I hear.

Myrmex
2009-11-09, 01:03 AM
It works on warforged because it's not Conjuration [Healing]. Or so I hear.

It is conjuration [healing], but it grants fast healing.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-09, 01:10 AM
Right, something like that.

Harperfan7
2009-11-09, 01:20 AM
Regardless, clerics CAN make new spells. Vigor repair.

Innis Cabal
2009-11-09, 01:21 AM
If you want talked out of it, then you probably don't want to do it. So don't. Simpel as that.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-09, 01:32 AM
Play an evolved undead necropolitan cleric instead, using an Ocular Spell'd, Chain Spell'd shield other to take everyone else's damage, and likewise distribute it around to other evolved undead minions. (That Fast Healing is good stuff.)

Myrmex
2009-11-09, 02:08 AM
Play an evolved undead necropolitan cleric instead, using an Ocular Spell'd, Chain Spell'd shield other to take everyone else's damage, and likewise distribute it around to other evolved undead minions. (That Fast Healing is good stuff.)

Not. Helping.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-09, 02:33 AM
Not. Helping.

Oops. Well, you could try for a strongheart halfling artificer with Legendary Artisan, Extraordinary Artisan, and a bunch of crafted scrolls of cure light wounds. Grab yourself a riding dog, boost your Handle Animal, and go to town. Or to the forest. Or into a dungeon. Whatever you like.

Alternately, that same strongheart halfling, but play a stock-standard druid? With a nice, beefy animal companion?

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-11-09, 03:06 AM
Play an evolved undead necropolitan cleric instead, using an Ocular Spell'd, Chain Spell'd shield other to take everyone else's damage, and likewise distribute it around to other evolved undead minions. (That Fast Healing is good stuff.)

Evolved Undead Necropolitan Dread Necromancer. Make sure the rest of the party has the feat that lets them heal from negative energy (Tomb Tainted). Unlimited healing for the party!

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-09, 03:11 AM
Well, Fast Healing isn't precisely healing, persay. It operates mostly like natural healing (the 1hp per level per day thing), with accelerated rate, and certain limitations.

So the real question is: Do warforged heal when resting?

If so, then it should work fine.

jmbrown
2009-11-09, 03:27 AM
How exactly does this combo work? If I understand correctly you're saying you can use divine metamagic to use persistent casting to cast lesser vigor on yourself? This is the first time I've encountered this but how is it possible as a level 1 character?

You need three feats to do that (extend spell, persistent metamagic, divine metamagic). That's going to be pretty difficult as a level 1 warforged with adamantine armor on top of that.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-09, 03:28 AM
How exactly does this combo work? If I understand correctly you're saying you can use divine metamagic to use persistent casting to cast lesser vigor on yourself? This is the first time I've encountered this but how is it possible as a level 1 character?

You need three feats to do that (extend spell, persistent metamagic, divine metamagic). That's going to be pretty difficult as a level 1 warforged with adamantine armor on top of that.

Look at his domains.

jmbrown
2009-11-09, 04:34 AM
Look at his domains.

Okay, so he's padding out the two missing feats with flaws.

If this weren't a one-shot I'd say "don't do it." I've had bad experiences with flaws ever since an entire group, through sheer coincidence, all picked inattentive and shaky.

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-09, 06:18 AM
Okay, so he's padding out the two missing feats with flaws.

If this weren't a one-shot I'd say "don't do it." I've had bad experiences with flaws ever since an entire group, through sheer coincidence, all picked inattentive and shaky.

Yeah, you take 2 Flaws for 3 Feats, and take Undeath (Extra Turning) and Planning (Extend Spell). Now, Persist Spell, DMM Persist, and Adamantine Body round it out. With a Cha of 10 or higher, you have enough to persist.

Kaiyanwang
2009-11-09, 06:21 AM
Vigor does not work that way.

Look at SC. The duration is maxed to X round (25 IIRC) and FAQs accord on this: persist does not improve vigor duration.

Starbuck_II
2009-11-09, 07:18 AM
Yeah, Persist is a lousy idea. You get 25 rds of healing then it ends.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-11-09, 08:29 AM
Regardless of what the FAQ says about the max durations of the Vigor line of spells, the one you are intending to use cannot even be affected by Persistent Spell. Lesser Vigor has a range of Touch, which is not a fixed range (it varies depending on reach) and therefore cannot be made Persistent. Only the Mass versions of the Vigor line of spells are valid targets, as their ranges are a fixed distance. The earliest you can do this is with Mass Lesser Vigor, which is a 3rd level spell.

I'd probably go with a Warforged Dragonfire Adept, from Dragon Magic. Get Entangling Exhalation in Races of the Dragon, heavy armor or Adamantine Body if you can use flaws, and carry a tower shield. Use Endure Exposure on your party every day, and spam entangling breath attacks every round. Your spell failure for armor doesn't apply to your breath attack, and your nonproficiency penalties won't matter because you'll never need to make an attack roll. Nothing will hit your AC, you'll contribute a fair amount of damage due to the 1d6/round they're entangled, the opponents will be severely hindered by the debuff, and your party will be at a significant tactical advantage in every battle.

Myrmex
2009-11-09, 02:15 PM
If touch range spells aren't a fixed range because they vary with reach, then fixed range spells aren't really fixed, because they vary with whether or not someone has enlarged them.

jiriku
2009-11-09, 02:37 PM
There, Biff has got it for you. Take a conservative interpretation of Persistent spell. This invalidates your combo and thus your build. So you'll have to play another character. Which is what you wanted. :D

Volos
2009-11-09, 04:11 PM
Powergamer, powergamer, does whatever a loophole can.

Myrmex
2009-11-12, 03:31 PM
Went with Focused Specialist Transmuter.
FS is REALLY REALLY good. The bonus spells are very noticeable.

TheThan
2009-11-12, 03:59 PM
Play a druid,

A warforged urban druid. Just make sure to say transform and roll out! when you ride off into the sunset.