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DnDgeek13
2009-11-11, 01:21 AM
In one of my 3.5 DnD campaigns, we have this dwarf. Nice dwarf. A little crazy though. He is one of our main fighters. one of our favorite past times of annoying the Dm is to increase his strength to high numbers. we have access to cleric spells, ranger spells, and sorcerer/wizard spells.all of our characters are from 9th to 13th level. any ideas?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-11, 01:25 AM
War Hulk, Miniatures Handbook. Needs large size, however.

cupkeyk
2009-11-11, 01:28 AM
War Hulk, Miniatures Handbook. Needs large size, however.

enlarge person + permanence = war hulk dwarf.

Tavar
2009-11-11, 01:35 AM
Also, if you can cast Miracle(or suceed on the UMD check of a level 7 scroll), Miracle let's you use the Wu Gen(Complete Arcane) spell Giant Size, which gives either a +16, +24, or +32 to str. Plus, it's not enhancement, so you can still benefit from a Belt of Giant's Strength +x.

DnDgeek13
2009-11-11, 01:50 AM
Also, if you can cast Miracle(or suceed on the UMD check of a level 7 scroll), Miracle let's you use the Wu Gen(Complete Arcane) spell Giant Size, which gives either a +16, +24, or +32 to str. Plus, it's not enhancement, so you can still benefit from a Belt of Giant's Strength +x.

That is crazy.


Any possibilities that don't involve size growth?

Mongoose87
2009-11-11, 01:52 AM
That is crazy.


Any possibilities that don't involve size growth?

Book of Str +5

Tavar
2009-11-11, 01:53 AM
It's a 7th level spell that normally can only effect the caster. Not really that bad.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-11, 01:58 AM
That is crazy.


Any possibilities that don't involve size growth?Not really, at least for non-caster Dorfs that want medium size. If he's got a level of Barb and feats to spare(sorry, Fighter, so he only needs the Barb level), Frenzied Berserker works well. Also, don't forget to PAO into something with a good mod at some point.

Alleine
2009-11-11, 02:08 AM
Grafts from Lords of Madness, specifically the Sithilar grafts that adds a +2 untyped bonus. Expensive though. Another alternative, get bitten by a were creature. It'll add to his HD, which is probably not something you want, but who knows? It might be fun.

Unfortunately, most ranger spells that give you a +str are personal only, so unless the dwarf IS the ranger, those will be largely useless. However you might wanna check out the Spell Compendium. Its got tons of spells.

DnDgeek13
2009-11-11, 02:26 AM
if i'm correct, he is a level 13 fighter.

Iku Rex
2009-11-11, 02:28 AM
Elation (BoED) (Brd2, Clr2, Sor/Wiz3) is +2 Str (morale).

Fuse arms (SpC) (Clr2, Sor/Wiz2) is +4 Str (unnamed) with one arm. Combine with girallon's blessing (SpC) (Clr3, Drd3, Sor/Wiz3) to keep two arms.

Polymorph is always a favorite when it comes to boosting Str. Treant, annis hag, fire giant, cave troll (MM3), war troll (MM3) and firbolg (MM2) are good high Str forms. Certain other forms work well with fuse arms...


If you want Str for reasons other than combat, magic items like armbands of might (MIC), torc of the titans (MIC) and belt of the champion (MIC, requires feat) improve Str checks.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-11, 02:31 AM
if i'm correct, he is a level 13 fighter.The majority of what we can do will require some measure of retraining. We can get you a melee Dorf 13 with 40+ Str, but most of what we can do requires more flexibility than what a pre-built character has.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-11, 02:47 AM
A few levels in factotum (specifically, three) will allow him to add his Intelligence modifier to his attack rolls, damage rolls, and his Str and Dex checks (including initiative), and Str- and Dex-based skill checks. If he has a 14 Intelligence, it's essentially the same as adding a +4 untyped bonus to Strength. Boosts to Int will act like boosts to Str, allowing you to get additional enhancement and other types of bonuses for far cheaper overall than adding them all to Str alone (for instance, two +2 enhancement items are quite a bit cheaper than one +4 item - and you can afford tomes earlier, as well).

Adding a level in ranger, wizard, cleric, or druid will allow him to use items off of the ranger, wizard, cleric, or druid spell lists, respectively.

If he buys himself a psychoactive skin of proteus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#skinofProteus) he can use the psionic version of polymorph at will. Form of doom (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm) will give you a +4 untyped bonus, but it won't stack with polymorph-type effects. Strength of my enemy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/strengthofMyEnemy.htm) allows up to +8 to Str unaugmented, but for one, it's an enhancement bonus (won't stack with belts or gauntlets), and two, it has to be drained from enemies 1 point at a time (which is bad, because it's not instant gratification, but is good because it's a debuff).

But really? His best bet is to go factotum, then start splitting his boosts between Str and Int.

Heliomance
2009-11-11, 02:51 AM
Actually, that doesn't work. Three levels of Factotum doesn't allow you to add you r intelligence to attack and damage as a matter of course. I believe it may allow you to spend an Inspiration point to do it for one roll, but a level 3 Factotum only has 3 Inspiration points per day.

Adding it to Initiative, however, is entirely legit.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-11, 02:54 AM
Actually, that doesn't work. Three levels of Factotum doesn't allow you to add you r intelligence to attack and damage as a matter of course. I believe it may allow you to spend an Inspiration point to do it for one roll, but a level 3 Factotum only has 3 Inspiration points per day.

Adding it to Initiative, however, is entirely legit.

Well, a few feats taken as Fonts of Inspiration...

Retraining? Psychic reformation?

Of course, he does get those inspiration points every encounter, so he might not need THAT many of them...

Oh, and you can also see about doing a true mind switch, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSwitchTrue.htm) and though it's undispellable, it's also kind of risky (for obvious reasons). Expensive, too.

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-11, 02:58 AM
Polymorph Any Object into whatever you want. Duration: Temporary.

Polymorph Any Object again into the same thing. Duration: Permanent.

Use that to qualify for War Hulk. If he's dumb enough, he may even get an int boost.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-11, 03:04 AM
Polymorph Any Object into whatever you want. Duration: Temporary.

Polymorph Any Object again into the same thing. Duration: Permanent.

Use that to qualify for War Hulk. If he's dumb enough, he may even get an int boost.What's the Strength score on a sarruhk? Int 30 on that. Otherwise, if he can get the Otherworldly feat, he could get Int 22 fairly easily through a celestial or fiend from the Monster Manual.

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-11, 03:08 AM
What's the Strength score on a sarruhk? Int 30 on that. Otherwise, if he can get the Otherworldly feat, he could get Int 22 fairly easily through a celestial or fiend from the Monster Manual.

Int isn't the focus here. Sarruhk strength is the same as the other stats: Whatever it wants, with little work.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-11, 03:12 AM
Int isn't the focus here. Sarruhk strength is the same as the other stats: Whatever it wants, with little work.I'm not talking Pun-Pun here. Just getting both Str and Int sky-high. Maybe PaO into a sarruhk, then a regular polymorph into a firbolg?

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-11, 03:37 AM
I'm not talking Pun-Pun here. Just getting both Str and Int sky-high. Maybe PaO into a sarruhk, then a regular polymorph into a firbolg?

Wouldn't be permanent. If you were gonna do this, you'd wanna double PaO into a Sarrukh, then use regular Polymorph as needed for another creature.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-11, 11:28 AM
Wouldn't be permanent. If you were gonna do this, you'd wanna double PaO into a Sarrukh, then use regular Polymorph as needed for another creature.I know. That's what I was suggesting.

ericgrau
2009-11-11, 11:33 AM
Dragon disciple. It gets a lot of flak for sucking for casters, but it's a solid prestige for martial builds. 4 levels gives 4 strength (among other niceties), and level 4 is a good stopping point. So are 7 and 10 btw. You'll also need a level in a class that casts arcane spells spontaneously to meet the pre-reqs. Among other things; check the class description.

Other methods include size increases, polymorph or getting bitten by a werebear for +16.

Eldariel
2009-11-11, 11:40 AM
Dragon disciple. It gets a lot of flak for sucking for casters, but it's a solid prestige for martial builds. 4 levels gives 4 strength (among other niceties), and level 4 is a good stopping point. So are 7 and 10 btw. You'll also need a level in a class that casts arcane spells spontaneously to meet the pre-reqs. Among other things; check the class description.

10 is pretty horrible because it costs you Humanoid-type and thus Enlarge Person. 4 and 7 are both fairly good, though. Losing the third BAB at 9 kinda sucks though, though of course Wings are nice for a martial type.

Biggest draws of the class:
+4 Str
Natural Bite-attack


I'd only really consider it in Core though.

ericgrau
2009-11-11, 11:44 AM
Huh, I didn't think a bite attack was worth much. But if you got the feat to reduce it to -2, and you have a good strength mod to add, I guess it's free damage. I was thinking more about the d12 HD, good will save, and natural armor besides the strength boost. The +4 strength alone more makes up for the 2 points of BAB you lose (1 from DD, 1 from sorc or bard), then the rest is extra chocolatey goodness. Since he has 13 levels of fighter without a prestige, and didn't like the idea of size boosts, his group didn't seem that powergamey. So I left it as an option in case other options get the thumbs down.

Come to think of it, I'd consider dipping dragon disciple and then 1 level of dwarven defender purely for the +4 to will saves, other minor bonuses, and little if anything sacrificed.

Starbuck_II
2009-11-11, 11:49 AM
Barb with Reckless Rage at 1st gets +6 Str/Con, -4 AC penalty when raging.

Reckless improves Rage and Frenzy so a Frenzied berserker gets it boosting both.

Dimers
2009-11-11, 03:02 PM
There are a couple spell in Magic of Faerun that provide a circumstance bonus to Strength, which would stack with almost any other available bonus. Sadly, they're spells you cast on enemies, because they also cause daze and penalties to most rolls. Immunize the dwarf against dazing, and it might be worth it just to annoy the DM. :smalltongue:

Eldariel
2009-11-11, 04:35 PM
Huh, I didn't think a bite attack was worth much. But if you got the feat to reduce it to -2, and you have a good strength mod to add, I guess it's free damage. I was thinking more about the d12 HD, good will save, and natural armor besides the strength boost. The +4 strength alone more makes up for the 2 points of BAB you lose (1 from DD, 1 from sorc or bard), then the rest is extra chocolatey goodness. Since he has 13 levels of fighter without a prestige, and didn't like the idea of size boosts, his group didn't seem that powergamey. So I left it as an option in case other options get the thumbs down.

Well, the Bite-attack is simply a free extra attack at -5; that's like an extra second iterative (with obviously worse damage 'cause you can't two-hand bite). With a high-Str type, it's got quite a decent chance of hitting, and fair damage output; tossing ~20-30 extra damage into the deal is really nice and if you happen to have a Druid with extra Greater Magic Fang handy...

I wouldn't take Multiattack just for it; spending feats for a +3 on a secondary attack is kinda meh. But if his Str is going to be in the clouds anyways, and he has otherwise full BAB, I see quite a good chance of hitting with it.

ericgrau
2009-11-11, 05:07 PM
20-30? From 1d6+strength mod? That'd put his strength at around 40-60, which seems a bit crazy to pull off unless he does all the retraining, large size, etc. people are talking about. Or has shock trooper, which seems iffy given that his build is fighter 13. And at the -5 penalty it only hits 1/2-2/3 of the time. Well, it is free <shrug>.

Eldariel
2009-11-11, 05:16 PM
20-30? From 1d6+strength mod? That'd put his strength at around 40-60, which seems a bit crazy to pull off unless he does all the retraining, large size, etc. people are talking about. Or has shock trooper, which seems iffy given that his build is fighter 13. And at the -5 penalty it only hits 1/2-2/3 of the time. Well, it is free <shrug>.

I was assuming the enhancement bonus (Greater Magic Fang) and some PA (as you're probably using it with your primary attack). I mean, you'll have +4 Str from Dragon Disciple and probably your largest number from the character creation in Str, along with probably the best enhancement you can afford and all level-ups, meaning you can reach ~30 Str or so by teens.

And then maybe +3-+4 weapon and couple of points of PA (from your primary attacks). 1d6+10+3+3 is ~20. 30 was a tad on the high side before ~16-20, though; I just threw the numbers in there without math.

ericgrau
2009-11-11, 05:29 PM
Already thought of that when I said "shock trooper". Without shock trooper you aren't going to want to PA on a full attack; it hurts your chances of hitting too much on the multiple secondary attacks. Even with the AB boost from a 30ish strength, which i consider standard. The boost from dragon disciple comes with a BAB penalty so strength and damage go up (making misses even more painful) but AB stays the same. But if he agreed to some tricks others mentioned and managed a 40-60 strength, or got shock trooper, then his AB might be high enough to PA.

Eldariel
2009-11-11, 05:33 PM
I've found you can generally profittably PA for a couple of points when you pimp out your To Hit vs. CR appropriate opponents (and for more as the levels go up, of course). I've just used this (http://donjon.bin.sh/d20/power/) to do the math.

ericgrau
2009-11-11, 05:37 PM
1 or 2 points to PA sounds plausible, though only part of that is real damage once you count what you lose to misses. Going back and rereading, your second damage estimate sounds close enough anyway. And free is free. The other things listed about the class are nice too. So yeah, if the OP doesn't want some uber splatbook prestige, dragon disciple is a solid option.

In semi-related news, my half-dragon character plans on paying attention to his bite attack now.