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Narazil
2009-11-11, 04:06 PM
Hi guys. So, I'm making a Cloistered Cleric, he's an old bookworm kinda-guy, with low physical scores and high int/wis. Mostly done, except Feats..
What to do?! Obviously, I'm not going for a CoDzilla or the likes. He's a weak, fragile man, and he's not going to Persist Holy Power and what not.
If it helps, he has the Travel, Knowledge and Protection domains, he's quiet and concerned, and helps by mostly debuffing and buffing in combat. He's pretty non-combat orientented with a spellselection like Detect Thoughts, Tounges ect.

subject42
2009-11-11, 04:41 PM
Hi guys. So, I'm making a Cloistered Cleric, he's an old bookworm kinda-guy, with low physical scores and high int/wis. Mostly done, except Feats..
What to do?! Obviously, I'm not going for a CoDzilla or the likes. He's a weak, fragile man, and he's not going to Persist Holy Power and what not.
If it helps, he has the Travel, Knowledge and Protection domains, he's quiet and concerned, and helps by mostly debuffing and buffing in combat. He's pretty non-combat orientented with a spellselection like Detect Thoughts, Tounges ect.

We have a Cloistered Cleric in our ToH spare character pile. She's been using DMM (Quicken) along with lots of turn attempts to get off two spells in every round.

Depending on your level, it could work.

Eldariel
2009-11-11, 04:42 PM
Focus on spellcasting? You can still do great stuff with DMM: Persistent, persisting stuff like Mass Lesser Vigor, Conviction, Recitation, Holy Star, Surge of Fortune, etc. for massive bonuses to yourself and others.

You have other options too though. Metamagic is never amiss and I'd always have Extend Spell anyways. Quicken Spell too. Also, Divine Spell Power is really, really nice for a casterish Cleric. Domain Spontaneity is also a nice Divine feat if you've got a bunch of Domains with handy solution-type spells. Extra Turning can be great if you find yourself with a ton of different things consuming your Turn Undead-attempts.


Then there are the Devotion-feats in Complete Champion like Travel Devotion, Protection Devotion, etc. Many of them especially shine on a combatant, but there's a bunch that are useful for a caster-focused one too.

See if you could refluff Whispered Secrets for whoever you serve; getting Spot and Listen in class would make you a great scout. Overall, focusing on things your high Wis benefits seems like a good idea. Skills are a nice thing to focus on as a Cloistered Cleric, but given that the spellcasting is gonna be your primary contribution, go there first and enhance the crap out of it.

jiriku
2009-11-11, 04:58 PM
It's already been mentioned, but QFT Quicken and Persistent spell become much more handy with Divine Metamagic. Chain Spell and Reach spell are highly useful for a buffer, allowing you to apply touch-only spells both at range and to mass targets. The limitations on the chain spell feat are entirely negated if you use it to buff allies.

Divine Spell Power plus Heighten Turning will allow you to consistently increase your caster level by +4. That's enough to squeeze an extra +1 out of spells like mass conviction, chained greater magic weapon, and chained reach magic vestment.

If you plan to use a lot of ray spells (rare for a cleric, but possible), the precise shot and split ray feats are helpful.

Thurbane
2009-11-11, 09:42 PM
Have you chosen race yet? If not, consider Gnome, and the Trivial Knowledge feat...roll twice for all Knowledge and Lore checks. :smallsmile:

Narazil
2009-11-12, 08:49 AM
Human, level 6. Thanks for the advice - DMM has been approved. However, I "only" have 9 turning attempts per day. Blowing 7 on a Persist is going to hurt.
So far I've DMM: Extend, Persistent, Quicken, Domain Spontaneity (Knowledge), Extra Turning.

Simba
2009-11-12, 09:40 AM
That's a total of 8 feats!

As per the errata for DMM you have to take the metamagic feat first, then DMM it specifically, then the next metamagic feat, then DMM that, etc...



When you take this feat, choose a metamagic feat that
you have. This feat applies only to that metamagic feat.
As a free action, you can take the energy from turning
or rebuking undead and use it to apply a metamagic feat
to divine spells that you know. . . .

Narazil
2009-11-12, 09:42 AM
Oh. Crap. *Goes back to his sheet and corrects*.
Well that sucks.
Extend Spell, Divine Metamagic: Extend Spell, Quicken Spell, Divine Metamagic: Quicken Spell, Domain Spontaneity (Knowledge) then.

5 turning attempts per day is going to hurt.

Simba
2009-11-12, 09:44 AM
The errata is already 4-5 years old, but still ignorant DMs all over the world let their players play with this absolutely overpowered version :)
The new version is nice, but not overpowered.

The real problem is with nightsticks, that make DMM gamebreaking imo.

Narazil
2009-11-12, 09:47 AM
The errata is already 4-5 years old, but still ignorant DMs all over the world let their players play with this absolutely overpowered version :)
The new version is nice, but not overpowered.

The real problem is with nightsticks, that make DMM gamebreaking imo.
Obviously this can be abused and broken. My statline's 8, 8, 12, 16, 18, 15, so I won't be Persisting Holy Power to break faces anyway.

jiriku
2009-11-12, 09:49 AM
A reliquary amulet from the Magic Item Compendium costs only 1,000gp and will net you two additional turn undead attempts, plus it doubles as a holy symbol. A nightstick from Libris Mortis gets you four additional turn undead attempts. Nightstick-stacking is considered the height of clerical cheese, but personally I don't think there's anything wrong with getting just one. Abuse occurs when you buy multiples.

Also, remember that if you're willing to burn a spell slot in the name of DMM, you can cast eagle's splendor in the morning for two additional turn undead attempts, persist your spells, and you're off to the races.

Simba
2009-11-12, 09:52 AM
My houserule is that nightsticks can only be used for turning, not for powering feats. Easy...

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-12, 01:21 PM
Oh. Crap. *Goes back to his sheet and corrects*.
Well that sucks.
Extend Spell, Divine Metamagic: Extend Spell, Quicken Spell, Divine Metamagic: Quicken Spell, Domain Spontaneity (Knowledge) then.

5 turning attempts per day is going to hurt.Why DMM:Extend? Quicken is more than enough for your current number of uses.

Draz74
2009-11-12, 01:23 PM
Meh ... How broken it is totally depends on which metamagic you're applying to it. For Extending spells via DMM, I'd say "knock yourself out" with Nightsticks, no limits.

For Persist, I wouldn't allow using Nightstick turn attempts at all.

For Quicken, I might allow one Nightstick but no stacking.