Fighter Fix: Sealed Techniques

[Corporate M]

http://www.bleach7.com/member/images/screencaps/thumbs/e003%20-%2005.jpg
When I hear the term "weaboo fighting magic", I actually rather hope it's as such. Tome of Battle was definitely a good starting point, but if you asked me wasn't thought out. For one, there wasn't enough diversity in manuevers and alot of them were redundant. Secondly, they were never added upon. Even psionics, which was another bastard child of 3.5 got more attention then Tome of Battle! It seems if it was awesome, wotc ignored it.

"Bankai" which we all know from the shonen anime Bleach, means "ban release". Unlike internet forums and 4chan. Bans are temporary, and most often only last for like.. five minutes given how often they tend to use their techniques. Simarly, the fighter might have bankai. And unlike say, a spellcaster, who's limited by spells per day, or a psion who has a powerpoints reserve. The only way to "unlock" these techniques is by taking feats as a fighter. Fighters can somehow make use of feats that noone else can. Here's an example;


Acrobatic:
Gain +2 on balance and escape artist checks.

Sounds pretty simple right? But what if a fighter had taken this feat? Well then he'd get an addition bonus that only applied to the fighter...

Fighter Bonus: 1/day as a counter action you may make a balance check inorder to avoid a melee or ranged attack.


Suddenly those fighter bonus feats aren't looking half bad knowing they all come with a hidden surprise. Some of these techniques might scale, some might not, some might even incur penalties like fatigue or whatever. The possibilities are endless. Here's another example:

Cleave:
If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round.

Fighter Bonus: 2/day you can deal an extra +2d10 damage with your attack. After the attack is made with the extra die, you must make a fortitude save DC 15 or your speed is halved and all damage done to you is increased by +2 for the next five rounds. This ability cannot stack. (So no +4d10)


What'cha think? It ceartainly is an incentive to play a fighter from level 1 to level 20. Albeit it might make the level system a little iffy. Cause at early levels fighters with well picked feats will be unstoppable, but by mid and higher levels, they still won't hold a candle to a competent spellcaster. Just be a wee bit more competitive. Not all their techniques would be combat oriented either. I'm just trying to pitch the idea...


It still does not help a slew of other martial classes who equaly get screwed. Like the barbarian, rogue, scout, and probably most of all, the swashbuckler.. But it's definitely a start. Infact, perhaps this "fighter fix" could apply to all martial classes. Even some dabbling classes like paladin and ranger. Where as different classes unlock different "bankai". Which would create a whole new metagame of multiclassing. Some techniques might require a specified level in a ceartain class. Especially with the paladin who basicaly i a waste of levels after early ones.

[elliott20]

now define what it means to be a "martial" class.

what you're effectively doing is creating new feats for people to take with this. It's not a bad idea, but then it will entail a whole boatload of work and then you need to write it for every single class, which is no small undertaking.

[PersonMan]

now define what it means to be a "martial" class.

what you're effectively doing is creating new feats for people to take with this. It's not a bad idea, but then it will entail a whole boatload of work and then you need to write it for every single class, which is no small undertaking.

+1.

Also, you'd probably want tiers of feats. Say, X feat is really great, but you can only get it if you have Y feat and Z levels in fighter. Or, you can choose either 2 "lower tier" not-as-great feats or a single better one. But you might start running out of feats.

Anyways, work. Lots of it for this, especially if you're expanding this to other classes.

[Nero24200]

I think you might be mising why some people dislike the wuxia feel of TOB, it's because they want their mundane warriors to be...well...mundane.

Not everyone wants their high level fighters to be able to unleash magical energy blasts at foes or leap 50ft in the air. Breaking the laws of physics is meant to be the spellcasters role.

[Mulletmanalive]

You've also got Bankai misrepresented. It uses the character for absolute and samsara, which is read in On readings [when used in compound] as Ban. It looks like a swastika [mostly because it is...].

Ban-kai in these terms means ultimate or final/irrevokable release. Never really understood why Viz called it the 'Ban release,' as that doesn't actually mean anything...

Japanese students HO! :smallbiggrin:

[Eldan]

Actually, if you think that there isn't enough martial stuff, dig through the homebrew section on these fora. There's quite a little stuff around here:

New Disciplines (there's probably more, but those are the ones I know):

Army of One (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5710173)
Black Lotus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124905)
Black Rain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5471518)
Coin's Edge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75548)
Dread Crown (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76218)
Far Realm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3410915&postcount=5%20Maneuvers%20of%20Madness)
Fool's Grip (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67879)
Golden Saint (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76150)
Kaleidoscopic Dream (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86163)
Oncoming Storm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54816)
Quicksilver Aegis (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86266)
Scarlet Bravura (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5569037)
Sleeping Godess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5408276)
Twin Spirit (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40991)


With this and probably around a hundred martial PrCs by Krimm Blackleaf, you should have more than enough to outfit any supernatural fighter. However, people really think that the normal fighter should stay mundane.

Of course, they often forget that "mundane", as in "worldly", from latin "mundus", "world" actually stops at about level 5. People in our world aren't above level 5.
After that? Fighters can already do stuff people in our world never can just by jump checks. They can jump off mount Everest and survive the falling damage, then run for two days in full plate and a 100 pound backpack, fight an army and then still climb back up that mountain.
So, really, giving them abilities that let them jump 50 feet or let them do bonus damage really aren't out of the question. You are a legendary hero, after all, and legendary fighters in various legends could do stuff like that.

[elliott20]

people also don't like TOB because of the misconception that all TOB stuff has to be flashy and anime-esque, when the fluff for most non-swordsage disciplines can just easily be re-done to look like just good techniques. That and people often think that european martial arts do not have intricate and complex systems rivaling that of eastern martial arts.

[Nero24200]

After that? Fighters can already do stuff people in our world never can just by jump checks. They can jump off mount Everest and survive the falling damage, then run for two days in full plate and a 100 pound backpack, fight an army and then still climb back up that mountain.
So, really, giving them abilities that let them jump 50 feet or let them do bonus damage really aren't out of the question. You are a legendary hero, after all, and legendary fighters in various legends could do stuff like that.

Again, I think you're missing the point


Not everyone wants their high level fighters to be able to unleash magical energy blasts at foes or leap 50ft in the air. Breaking the laws of physics is meant to be the spellcasters role.


people also don't like TOB because of the misconception that all TOB stuff has to be flashy and anime-esque, when the fluff for most non-swordsage disciplines can just easily be re-done to look like just good techniques. That and people often think that european martial arts do not have intricate and complex systems rivaling that of eastern martial arts. Even though in the book itself the writers admit that their inspiration from the book came from anime and anime themed RPG's like Soul Calibur and Final Fantasy?

And well...well about manuvuers that say...create earthquakes? That certainly isn't mundane and it's a maneuver in a school accesssable to all martial characters.

What about dealing wisdom damage, again, in the Diamond Mind school which is *gasp* avaliable to the "mundane" warblade class. Or maybe it's just this.

Spell Description Format
Name: X
Casting Time: X
Target: X
Duration: X
And so on, then a description

Martial Maneuver Format
Name: X
Initiation Time: X
Tagert: X
Duration: X

The gripe I have about TOB is that it's too close to magic. What few games I've used TOB I've used in place of most magical classes.

I'm not trying to say the book is poor or anything like that, but quite frankly, call a spade a spade and not a shovel. [/endrant]

[elliott20]

alright, I'm not going to turn this into another ToB thread, since the OP clearly is gonna want more feedback on his work than TOB stuff.

we can always just refer to one of the THOUSANDS of TOB threads out there for the transcript.

[Oslecamo]

people also don't like TOB because of the misconception that all TOB stuff has to be flashy and anime-esque, when the fluff for most non-swordsage disciplines can just easily be re-done to look like just good techniques.

My drow warblade who can shut down the sun by flexing his muscles and throw great axes as if they were boomerangs would like a word with you.

[Godskook]

My drow warblade who can shut down the sun by flexing his muscles and throw great axes as if they were boomerangs would like a word with you.

A TOB thread would be preferable to a "IHS iz teh br0k3n" thread, so please, stay on target.
IHS isn't broken, by any sane reading of the rules, but that's a discussion for white-text and PMs
----------------------

@OP, I always dislike x/day abilities, and within the context of the non-magical, I find it down right distasteful. And the sad thing is, it isn't even necessary, balance-wise, half the time. For instance, your example feat offers spending an immediate action to help negate an incoming attack*. In the grand scheme of things, using that every turn is still not overpowered because the fighter is likely to be seeing 4+ attacks against him, every turn.

*The feat is lacking a few important pieces of technical wording, assuming this is meant for 3.5. Primarily, how is the attack negated? An opposed role of balance against the initial attack roll? Also, is this something that can be done 'after' the hit is confirmed, or is it something you must do before you know the result of the incoming attack roll?

[Nero24200]

alright, I'm not going to turn this into another ToB thread, since the OP clearly is gonna want more feedback on his work than TOB stuff.

we can always just refer to one of the THOUSANDS of TOB threads out there for the transcript.
Yeah I agree here, back to the topic.

@Op: If you're looking for a Bankai-esc system for martial characters I beleive theres a few BleachD20 converstions around here somewhere. Even if they're not what you're looking for it's still food for thought.

[DracoDei]

Actually, if you think that there isn't enough martial stuff, dig through the homebrew section on these fora. There's quite a little stuff around here:

New Disciplines (there's probably more, but those are the ones I know):

Army of One (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5710173)
Black Lotus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124905)
Black Rain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5471518)
Coin's Edge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75548)
Dread Crown (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76218)
Far Realm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3410915&postcount=5%20Maneuvers%20of%20Madness)
Fool's Grip (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67879)
Golden Saint (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76150)
Kaleidoscopic Dream (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86163)
Oncoming Storm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54816)
Quicksilver Aegis (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86266)
Scarlet Bravura (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5569037)
Sleeping Godess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5408276)
Twin Spirit (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40991)



Should I feel slighted that you forgot Falling Anvil, even though you have responded to my threads and it is in my sig?

[Eldan]

Sorry... that wasn't in my list of ToB homebrew, because, as fun as it is, I probably wouldn't use it in most games.
And I just typed it off TDO's and Krimm's Sigs.