Arena Tournament, Round 77: Tank vs Tezx Darktongue

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 77: Tank vs. Tezx Darktongue

Map:
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee221/Kyace/glasshouse.png


XP Award: 300 XP
GP Award: 300 GP

Tank (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=156240) - BlackGodofHeat
Tezx Darktongue (http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=6785) - Corsair420

All Combatants, please roll initiative and declare final purchases, if any

[BlackGodofHeat]

Initiative: [roll0]

No purchases as of yet.

[Corsair420]

Init: [roll0]

no purchases

[Corsair420]

@ref and LoS
starting in A13 with bow in hand, I do a double move to A1

End my turn

[BlackGodofHeat]

Tank - R1

Start in Y13, draw and drink potion of mage armour.

Done, stats:
AC: 27 FF26 T11 (+8 Plating, +4 Mage Armour, +4 Tower Shield, +1 Dex)
Mage Armour: 1/100
Position: Y13

[Corsair420]

Ref and LoS: Move to E5 and pull out my grapple and rope

Done

Stats:
HP:11, AC:19, Loc: E5

[BlackGodofHeat]

Tank - R2

Refs/LoS:
Draw potion of shield of faith and ready an action to drink it upon gaining LoS.

Done, stats:
AC: 27 FF26 T11 (+8 Plating, +4 Mage Armour, +4 Tower Shield, +1 Dex)
Mage Armour: 2/100
Position: Y13

[hustlertwo]

LoS

Tank
No LoS

Tezx

No LoS

[Corsair420]

@ref and LoS:throw grapple up to try and latch onto glass roof
use rope: (1d20+6)[21]DC: 14

i forgot to close spoiler so i copy and pasted the roll so it didn't [roll0] it, i'll reroll if i need to

i think it showed the real roll below

[vollmond]

Corsair420:Note that you can adjust spoiler tags all you like without affecting the forum dice roller, as long as you leave the "roll0" or whatever tag in the post.

[BlackGodofHeat]

I don't know what that roll is for, but I guess it isn't for attack, so a skill check, interesting...

Anyway, we started with LoS, and unless you moved out of LoS that same turn, we'd still have it, my question to you is: did you move out of LoS the first turn, and if so, in which direction?

[Corsair420]

yea i don't know much about this map so i just assumed we didn't have LoS once i moved from the start since ti was more then 2 panes of glass.

also @refs: whenever i've edited a post with a roll it keeps [roll0] there instead of the actual roll so... yea i dunno

your up you can get a ref if u want

[BlackGodofHeat]

It isn't three panes of glass, I count only 1, in the middle.

So I'd still like an answer to my question. :smallwink:

[Corsair420]

well then you need to look becuase the outline of the ceiling along it's edges are walls except the entrances in the top bottom and sides that's why only part are bolded , you can look at my first spoiler to see which way i moved but i think we need a ref to sort this out before you actually do

[Lubirio]

In previous matches, the combatants start with LoS since the only barrier is in the middle. The openings to the inside glass box allow the vision through a single glass pane, giving the combatants 20% concealment and no LoE, but still LoS.

[Scorer]

Hi Ref Scorer

You have LoS on first turn always here. It requieres 32 walls to prevent LoS.

So yes, you can open first spoiler.

Edit: Ninja'd!

Edit: Sorry, typo

[vollmond]

Scorer: you mean 2 panes, right? That's how I've seen it ruled.

[Corsair420]

then why didn't you just open the spoiler instead of starting all this hubbub

i moved north at start now it's your turn

[BlackGodofHeat]

Sorry, I wasn't sure, so I decided to check.

Tank R3

Move to X15, making a lot of noise: [roll0] and being very visible: [roll1], while not seeing ([roll2]) or hearing ([roll3]) a lot. :smallbiggrin:

Then ready an action to drink the potion upon gaining LoS.

Done, stats:
AC: 27 FF26 T11 (+8 Plating, +4 Mage Armour, +4 Tower Shield, +1 Dex)
Mage Armour: 2/100
Position: X15

fixed spoiler. :smallwink:

[Corsair420]

@ref and los:
climb check to climb my rope to the top of the glass
climb: [roll0] DC:5 (knotted rope)

my turn is done

[BlackGodofHeat]

Tank - R4

Refs/LoS:
Move to V14, then ready an action to drink the potion upon gaining LoS.

Done, stats:
AC: 27 FF26 T11 (+8 Plating, +4 Mage Armour, +4 Tower Shield, +1 Dex)
Mage Armour: 4/100
Position: V14

[Lubirio]

Tezx:
The climb succeeds, but you move at one-quarter your speed, unless you make an accelerated climb (taking a -5 penalty) to move one half your speed, or make a rapid climb (taking a -20 penalty) to move your full speed.

All these things are move actions, so you would still have one move left, but your turn ended so you don't get it, sorry.

[Corsair420]

@ref and LoS: yea i realized that after i did it also climbing a knotted rope with a wall is a dc 0 isn't it? so... i lost where i was going with that

accelerated climb: [roll0]
check 2: [roll1]

my turn is over

[BlackGodofHeat]

This pace is nice. :smallbiggrin:

Tank - R5

Run to R10, making myself almost audible throughout the whole of the map. :smallbiggrin:

Done, stats:
AC: 27 FF26 T11 (+8 Plating, +4 Mage Armour, +4 Tower Shield, +1 Dex)
Mage Armour: 5/100
Position: R10

[Lubirio]

Refs:
That's loud, base DC -35 to hear the guy running, Tezx hears him and pinpoints him.

LoS:

Tezx:
You're good to go, on the first climb you make it up and you would have had 1 standard action left. You hear Tank running to R10, making a great amount of noise.

Tank:
No LoS.

[Corsair420]

@refs need to know if i'm up top and if i know where he is

not done, waiting for refs

[Lubirio]

Tezx:
You made it to the top last turn, and wasted a standard action, and you clearly heard him running to R10.

[Corsair420]

@ref and LoS: double move to M13

i'm done

[Lubirio]

Tezx:
You have to stand up from prone first, then you can move. :smallwink:

[Corsair420]

@ lubirioi see nothing that says i'm prone after i climb up, i'm looking at the SRD right now

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm

[Lubirio]

Tezx:
Sorry, my mistake, it just seemed more logical, which D&D has proven yet again that it doesn't use, logic. :smallbiggrin:

Carry on.

[BlackGodofHeat]

Tank - R6

Refs/LoS:
Move to P9, and ready an action to drink the potion upon gaining LoE.

End turn, stats:
AC: 27 FF26 T11 (+8 Plating, +4 Mage Armour, +4 Tower Shield, +1 Dex)
Mage Armour: 6/100
Position: P9

[Corsair420]

@ref and LoS: move to M7

not done yet need a ref to answer a question first

[Corsair420]

rest of turn: i'm going to draw my longsword, keeping my bow in my off hand

i'm done now

[BlackGodofHeat]

I'm waiting for LoS, if you think it isn't needed for any reason, please tell me.

[Corsair420]

I can see you if that's what you mean, but i dunno if you can automatically see me, so i'd get a ref just to be sure

[Lubirio]

Refs:
Some random stuff here...

LoS:

Tezx:
You can't see Tank, you could only pinpoint him last turn because he made so much noise, you still hear him, but can't pinpoint him this time, he's east and a little south of you, obviously at the bottom.

Tank:
No LoS.

[Corsair420]

@refs:when he did that he posted his location that loc should be like 25 ft ahead of me and through one pane of glass, are oyu sure i can't see him?

[Lubirio]

Tezx:
The 3D confuses me, but I think I was wrong again, sorry, real LoS below... :smallredface:

LoS: For real this time

LoS is established as Tezx ends his movement in M7, seeing Tank standing in P9.

[BlackGodofHeat]

In that case:

Tank - R7

Drink potion and draw loaded crossbow.

Done, stats:
AC: 29 FF28 T13 (+8 Plating, +4 Mage Armour, +4 Tower Shield, +1 Dex, +2 Shield of Faith)
Mage Armour: 7/100
Position: P9

[Corsair420]

whoa wait a second, where did you get that bow, i KNOW you didn't have it before this match because that is why i'm using the tactics i'm using and you never declared any purchases

[BlackGodofHeat]

Sorry, drop the potion before drawing the (light) crossbow.

As for the issue of having it before the match started, I did in fact, have it, you might have not have noticed it when you were looking over my sheet, sorry. :smallredface:

[Corsair420]

well i'm calling BS, i know you didn't have it before because i looked over everything and i went "wow no ranged, if i can get on top he won't be able to hit me thats a big miss on his part", but since I can't prove it theres not much i can do

also waiting fro a ref to answer my question in the waiting room

[BlackGodofHeat]

I'm truly sorry you missed it, if you want to restart the match with this new knowledge I won't complain and you're perfectly allowed to. Because I can't prove I did have it on my sheet I guess you'll just have to trust me on that part. :smalltongue:

[Corsair420]

i'm going to attack the glass in N7
attack:[roll0]
damage:[roll1]

then take a 5 foot step to M6

i'm done

[BlackGodofHeat]

Tank - R8

I'll move to Q11, and ready an action:
Shoot once LoE is established.

End turn:
AC: 29 FF28 T13 (+8 Plating, +4 Mage Armour, +4 Tower Shield, +1 Dex, +2 Shield of Faith)
Mage Armour: 7/100
Shield of Faith: 2/10
Position: Q11

[Corsair420]

getting a ref check

[BlackGodofHeat]

Are we still waiting for a ref?

Edit: I have patience, so I won;t have you DQ'd anytime soon. :smallwink:

[Corsair420]

posted in the waiting room i guess it was ignored, i'll repost

[Corsair420]

i think all the refs forgot about us...

[HCL]

So what do you need a ref for? Looks like both of you posted your locations in your post so its not for LOS. I believe that the glass pane you are attacking breaks as you hit it for 8 (it might be reduced to 4 if you are using a piercing weapon as you did not specify a weapon, but that still breaks it with hardness 1 hp 3)

EDIT: Corsair 420 shouldn't your small longsword hit for 1d6+2 not 1d8+2?

[Corsair420]

i did say that i had my longsword in hand with my bow in my off hand so i did use my sword, also your right about the damage i forgot about small weapons

also the ref check was as I said to see if I still had line of effect on him through the pane of glass i broke, he moved and i moved so i wanted to know if i still had it or not

[Corsair420]

ok it's not worth waiting anymore

Move to P11 and ready an action:
ready action to shoot if he breaks any glass panes that grant LoE

your up

[BlackGodofHeat]

I guess I'll just go then...

Tank - R9

Undon the Tower Shield, then shoot the pane right underneath you, in P11.
Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]
then don the Tower Shield again.

Done, stats:
AC: 29 FF28 T13 (+8 Plating, +4 Mage Armour, +4 Tower Shield, +1 Dex, +2 Shield of Faith)
Mage Armour: 8/100
Shield of Faith: 2/10
Position: Q11

[Corsair420]

i'm pretty sure thats 3 actions so you'd have to wait before you could re don the shield, i'm gonna get a ref here, mostly because i think i'm going to fall

[hustlertwo]

Yeah, it's a move action both to unfasten and refasten a shield.

[BlackGodofHeat]

I will then not refasten it, since my other actions were perfectly legal, I would like to keep those (and the rolls :smallbiggrin:).

[hustlertwo]

No prob, Bob.

[Corsair420]

so how about getting an actual LoS and answer to my question other then just telling him he can't refasten his shield and then a pointless comment like i asked the first time

[HCL]

Initiate ref HCL:

Blackgod, How are you getting 1d20+3 and 1d8+4 on your crossbow rolls? You have a +2 ranged attack bonus on your sheet, and you do not normally get your strength bonus on crossbow attacks unless you have a feat I am not aware of

However even with an attack roll of 7 and damage of 8 you still would break the glass assuming it has AC of 5

I believe you fall, and that your readied action triggers before you fall. You might be entitled to a reflex save or tumble check or something I am not clear on the specifics, but it is 1d6 per 10 feet I believe.

first 10 feet [roll0]
second 10 feet [roll1]

[Scorer]

Hi Ref Scorer

Remember that ranged weapons do half damage to inanimate objects.

[Corsair420]

and he brought up a valid point, how the hell do you have +4 to a crossbow attack, a +4 mighty xbow would be like 12 or 1500 gp

[HCL]

Hi Ref Scorer

Remember that ranged weapons do half damage to inanimate objects.

An 8 still breaks it, unless you want him to reroll just because he got the bonuses wrong. People get bonuses wrong all the time though, I think what counts is that he used the right die size which I believe he did. So an 8 deals 4 damage, which breaks the glass with 3 hardness 1 hp.

[Corsair420]

ok, so what happens when I fall? i had a ready action, do i take that before I fall or after? do i get any kind of reflex save? the falling damage was already rolled

[HCL]

You don't have any ranks in tumble so you take the 7 damage if you fall. I think you should take your readied action and then continue with your turn, if another ref says you get a reflex save of some sort (I am not aware of any rules about the floor falling out beneath you and none of the other refs have said anything) they can have you rewind.

[Corsair420]

i've posted about this match atleast 3 times and this is the first straight answer. Since you say my ready action goes off i'll take it and if we need ot rewind we can just so this match is actually moving

Ready action to attack if any panes that grant LoE are broken

Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

Then move to M7

Done
Stats:AC:19
HP: 4/11
Loc: P11, ground level

[Psionic Dog]

High Ref PsiDog

I'm not 100% certain what answere this is waiting on so I'll try answering every question I've seen. Shout out if I missed a question that needs answering.

Q: How did Tank get a +3 to hit and +4 damage?
A: He doesn't. However as HCL pointed out, it still hits and breaks the glass.
Edit: Ah, dropped the shield for the +3 to hit. The +4 damage is still off however.

Q: Does that trigger a readied action?
A: By the strange rules of raw the readied action triggers before Texz starts to fall.

Q: Can he save himself?
A: Precedent has allowed a DC 15 reflex save to grab a ledge when a character is bull rushed off a ledge and is capable of grabbing said ledge. I believe we can extend the same here.

Q: Can he make a tumble check to reduce damage if he does fall?
A: No. Tumble/Jumps checks to reduce falling damage are only possible if a character deliberately jumpes down.

[Lubirio]

the +3 to hit is legit I think, he dropped the shield to get it, but regardless, the damage was messed up and fixed now. I think we're waiting on him to take his turn as well though, and in case he doesn't know, he does now. :smallbiggrin:

[Corsair420]

Thank you, that answered all the questions I think, based on what was said I get my reflex save first I think? i didn't know so i took my turn to move the match along but if I get a reflex i'd like a rewind

[Psionic Dog]

You get the save after the readied attack triggers, so the readied attack rolls stand. You may however take a rewind if you wish on the turn following the readied attack.

[Corsair420]

well after i used my ready action I fell and took damage then I moved to keep the match moving but if I get a reflex i should get a rewind to before I fell but after my ready action... thats what I meant

[Lubirio]

I see no reason against that, go ahead and roll your reflex save.

[Corsair420]

Thank you, i jsut wanted to be clear before doing anything

Reflex: [roll0]

[Lubirio]

Close one, you stay up there, but now the question lies as to where you end up?

[Corsair420]

well if i get to pick i'd like to be in O11

[BlackGodofHeat]

Excuses for my inactivity, I am ill, I am still not feeling very well, so I'm going to go all out, because the next time I'll be able to post will probably not be very soon.

If you take the readied action, and then make the reflex save to stay up there, ending in O11, you still need to finish your turn for me to go, am I right?

The +3 to attack included the dropping of the shield, but the original +2 was without the shield penalty, so it is supposed to be +2 to hit. The +4 to damage however, is an err on my part, it has been corrected.

If it is supposed to be my turn for some reason I'm unaware of, this will be my turn: (disregard if it isn't my turn)
I'll reload my crossbow, and ready an action:
shoot once LoE is established.

And stats:
AC: 25 FF24 T13 (+8 Plating, +4 Mage Armour, +1 Dex, +2 Shield of Faith)
Mage Armour: 9/100
Shield of Faith: 3/10
Position: Q11

Of course, if it was my turn, you are no up, and can go ahead.

[Corsair420]

well i had a ready action so that was half my turn then the reflex save and following time to pull myself up into O11 would have been the other half of my turn, so i think it was your turn, i'll ask for LoS and see what the ref says

[Lubirio]

We have Tank in Q11, Tezx in O11 on the roof, and a hole in the roof in P11. Looking from the side, you can visualize this as Tank standing in S17 (ground level is an imaginary wall just below him), and upward of him (north on the map), there's Tezx in Q13, the space in R13/14 is there, but a wall from S13/14 and on. (Can you see what I'm doing here?)

Long story short: Tank can shoot at Tezx, but he would have cover from his attacks. So right after he readies it, Tank's action is triggered, essentially making it a regular attack.

I guess this timely answer isn't of much use to you, as BlackGodofHeat is sick, (I think) excusing him from being DQ'd for a limited period of time.

[Corsair420]

illness never stopped DQ's before, unless he said he'd be out fro awhile in the waiting room or something or the holiday no DQ started he still can ve

[Lubirio]

And so the race against time begins...

[HCL]

well i had a ready action so that was half my turn then the reflex save and following time to pull myself up into O11 would have been the other half of my turn, so i think it was your turn, i'll ask for LoS and see what the ref says

Taking a readied action does not cut in to your next turn.

From what I understand there won't be any DQs until after new years or something like that, though I would really like to get this round moving as we have been stuck for a while.

[Corsair420]

to my knowledge that starts next week

[Psionic Dog]

High Ref PsiDog


We have Tank in Q11, Tezx in O11 on the roof, and a hole in the roof in P11. Looking from the side, you can visualize this as Tank standing in S17 (ground level is an imaginary wall just below him), and upward of him (north on the map), there's Tezx in Q13, the space in R13/14 is there, but a wall from S13/14 and on. (Can you see what I'm doing here?)

Long story short: Tank can shoot at Tezx, but he would have cover from his attacks. So right after he readies it, Tank's action is triggered, essentially making it a regular attack.

I guess this timely answer isn't of much use to you, as BlackGodofHeat is sick, (I think) excusing him from being DQ'd for a limited period of time.

Not quite.
To the best of my knowledge the save was an extension of the Failed Jump result to apply to any situation where a character found themselves unexpectedly over open air within 5ft of a ledge or surface.

Long Jump

A long jump is a horizontal jump, made across a gap like a chasm or stream. At the midpoint of the jump, you attain a vertical height equal to one-quarter of the horizontal distance. The DC for the jump is equal to the distance jumped (in feet).

If your check succeeds, you land on your feet at the far end. If you fail the check by less than 5, you don’t clear the distance, but you can make a DC 15 Reflex save to grab the far edge of the gap. You end your movement grasping the far edge. If that leaves you dangling over a chasm or gap, getting up requires a move action and a DC 15 Climb check.

As such Tezx is currently dangling in P11 at somewhere between +15 and +20 elevation while clinging to the P11/O11 edge. Moving to O-11 will require 5ft of climbing at DC 15.


As stated by the other refs, readied actions are continuations of past turns that do not affect your next turn. Tank took a move and standard action, Texz interrupted with a readied action. BlackGodofHeat has indicated there was nothing left he intended to do, and ended his turn.

It is now Tezx's R-10 turn.

BlackGodofHeat has requested an extension, and the rules do allow 1-week extensions upon request. When his turn comes he will have 1-week from his request or the usual 2-days after Tezx's turn completes - whichever is longer.

[Lubirio]

That all sounds very logical, and I had those things in mind, but the current problem we're facing is the fact that Tank's readied action was triggered the moment he readied it, as the condition was already fulfilled.

Do we roll for him and have the possibility of him blaming us for a bad roll, or do we wait for him (for a possibly very long time) to take the readied action, and then proceed?

Oh wait, I'm confused, it is now Tezx's turn from the one right after Tank shot the ceiling? (his round 10 turn?)

Also, BlackGofofHeat mentioned his next possible turn, but told us to disregard it if it wasn't his turn, so all is well, Tezx is up. Sorry for my misunderstanding the explanation. :smallredface: And I'm not even in the match...

[Corsair420]

ok so my understanding i'm hanging off the edge and I need to make a DC15 climb check and if I fail by 4 or less I don't fall but I don't get up if i fail by 5 or more i fall

Climb: [roll0]
and another if needed
Climb2: [roll1]

Ok so since I made that check I now have just a move action?

[Lubirio]

You have spent a move action climbing, you still have a standard action left, additionally: you can shoot Tank, and he won't have cover.

[Corsair420]

oh sweet I thought skill checks were standard actions that makes this better, I shoot him, and i hope it pokes his eye out(NOT a called shot)

Attack:[roll0]
Damage:[roll1]

then i'm done

[Lubirio]

Oh sorry (:smallredface:), you climb up, but are now prone. You can still attack with ranged but take a -4 to all ranged attack rolls, and stand up as a move action, does hat change anything?

[Psionic Dog]

High Ref PsiDog

Actually, while one might find that logical the Anena doesn't work that way. There is nothing that states or implies that a climbing character is prone at the top of their climb, so Tezx would be standing, not prone.

Further, the -4 attack penalties are for melee attack rolls only. There is no such penalty for ranged attacks while prone, although only shuriken or crossbows may be used to make ranged attacks while prone.

[Lubirio]

Oops, sorry then. Go on.:redface:

[Corsair420]

I made my attack and missed so we're just waiting on him

[BlackGodofHeat]

I apologize for my absense, I feel a lot better, and I expect to be posting about once every 2 days during the christmas holidays, and maybe once a day afterward. Your attack misses.

Tank - R10 (I think?)

Reload crossbow, shoot Tezx:
Attack: [roll0] I believe it's been said you have cover from this attack.
Damage: [roll1]

Now the rolls are all good.

Done, stats:
AC: 25 FF24 T13 (+8 Plating, +4 Mage Armour, +1 Dex, +2 Shield of Faith)
Mage Armour: 9/100
Shield of Faith: 3/10
Position: Q11

[Corsair420]

Tezx R11?

I think this is gonna be like that cleric fight in the comic... "made my save" "made my save" but in this case, our AC are really high

I shall attack as well

Attack:[roll0]
Damage:[roll1]

i'm done

Stats:AC:19, HP: 11/11, Loc: O11

[Psionic Dog]

High Ref PsiDog


Ref Lighting Reactivated: ZAP

Tank is DQed, leaving Tezx the victor