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Hzurr
2009-11-12, 01:35 PM
So, In listening to a few podcasts, and seeing how some other people play 4E, I've come to realize that my group tends to deal with short rests differently than other people

It seems that most groups, when they get to a short rest, simply say "Ok, everyone's powers re-charge, and you can spend as many healing surges as you need." Straightforward, simple, no problem

My group, however, tends to sit down and look at all the various healing powers of the PC, and figure out how to maximize healing using the fewest number of surges possible. (This started to get really tricky when we had to deal with a Shaman and her spirit companion).

Now, technically, the only real drawback to the way the group does it that you technically need to wait an additional 5 minutes to let encounter powers recharge, but I find that this is rarely an issue. That, and it's slightly more complicated when you have multiple leaders

So what seems to be typical in your group? Quick and Easy, or long and efficient?

dsmiles
2009-11-12, 01:39 PM
Personally, I'm a long and efficient type of player. As a DM, I don't really care, if they want to expend healing surges, I let them.

Izmir Stinger
2009-11-12, 01:51 PM
The restful healing feat seems to imply that your group's method was not overlooked as a possibility, or even the norm.

Douglas
2009-11-12, 02:02 PM
Wait, there are people who don't use Healing Word and similar abilities for every last bit of their healing during rests?:smallconfused:

Inyssius Tor
2009-11-12, 02:18 PM
Wait, there are people who don't use Healing Word and similar abilities for every last bit of their healing during rests?:smallconfused:

I was gonna say.

Mando Knight
2009-11-12, 02:19 PM
Wait, there are people who don't use Healing Word and similar abilities for every last bit of their healing during rests?:smallconfused:

Indeed. The only time I won't consider doing this is if negligible damage was dealt over the last encounter, or if there isn't time for two short rests for the leader's sake. (If the Paladin's got several uses of LoH left, and it's late enough in the adventuring day, I'd consider using that as well...)

Curmudgeon
2009-11-12, 02:21 PM
The only optimization my group commonly uses is for everybody who hasn't spent a healing surge to do so just as the last enemy drops, so as to take advantage of the per encounter option. This is a precaution just in case there's another wave ready to pounce before 5 more minutes have passed.

Mark Hall
2009-11-12, 03:05 PM
Short rest? When in the last 3 sessions have we had anything LIKE a short rest? :smalltongue:

Seriously, though, it's just good tactics and resource usage. Generally, we can afford to spend TIME, but we can't afford to be spendthrift with healing surges. That means looking at our surges, who heals the most, and how to get the most out of their abilities. With the artificer, that means that folks who don't use a lot of healing surges (like my bashy cleric who heals himself a lot... and loves the 8 regen from one of his daily powers) can donate to those who don't have many (like our glass cannon wizard).

Oracle_Hunter
2009-11-12, 04:01 PM
Yeah, the podcast players often seem unaware of basic rules-mastery strategies (and, very often, what the heck their character can do).

Though, to be honest, none of the people in my experience (except for me, when I played an Elven Cleric :smalltongue:) actually bother with Short Rest strategies. Then again, none of them have particularly long adventuring days, so Surge optimization is rarely important.

Huh. I need to figure out how to stretch out the days in the games I DM. Time to set up some "beat the clock" dungeons, I guess :smallamused:

Mark Hall
2009-11-12, 04:34 PM
Huh. I need to figure out how to stretch out the days in the games I DM. Time to set up some "beat the clock" dungeons, I guess :smallamused:

Another thing you can throw in (and another thing for which my fellow players will beat me for suggesting to Hzurr) is watch rotations. If the dungeon or area is inhabited, a patrol going through the halls, checking on things, is a great way to mess with parties that "hide out in a room." You can either have the enemy attack en masse while they rest (extend the adventuring day via keeping them from resting), through the secret passage they neglected to find, or both.

What I have found, however, is that, in our usual session of 4-5 hours, we can manage about one encounter (used to be two, but levels went up, and it takes longer to pound bad guys into the negatives... especially when they FEAR you and MAKE YOU RUN AWAY! razzafrackin beholders). If that encounter is the only one that happens that session, it's also a lot easier to say that it's the only one that happens that day... which changes the metric of the game CONSIDERABLY. Even blowing all our powers in the last combat, fights can take a long time.

Arbitrarity
2009-11-12, 04:49 PM
Yeah, our party will spend ~15 minutes on a short rest, but we typically only need a few moments to calculate health, since our Healer cleric just massively overkills everyone's damage. It's actually really funny, because we've only had to use Healer's Mercy once in about 6 encounters, when we got hit by mortar fire in the middle of a fight.

Katana_Geldar
2009-11-12, 05:15 PM
I have found that anything to enhance a spent healing surge is quite beneficial to the whole party, like my Bard's Song of Rest which gives +5 hp to each healing surge spent due to my uber high Charisma score.

Arbitrarity
2009-11-12, 05:18 PM
Cleric is more like "Here, take a Healing word. Oh look, you get 18 (2d6 +1d6 from pacifist healer, maximized via restful healing)+surge + 5 wis + 3 cha (pacifist healer) + 5 (Healer's Implement with +2 holy symbol, +2 healer's Brooch, +1 healer's armor). You're at full health now, right?

Oracle_Hunter
2009-11-12, 06:10 PM
Cleric is more like "Here, take a Healing word. Oh look, you get 18 (2d6 +1d6 from pacifist healer, maximized via restful healing)+surge + 5 wis + 3 cha (pacifist healer) + 5 (Healer's Implement with +2 holy symbol, +2 healer's Brooch, +1 healer's armor). You're at full health now, right?
Well, not that min/maxed, but yeah - I never spent a Word in combat unless my meatshields allies were Bloodied :smalltongue:

Hzurr
2009-11-12, 07:08 PM
What I have found, however, is that, in our usual session of 4-5 hours, we can manage about one encounter (used to be two, but levels went up, and it takes longer to pound bad guys into the negatives... especially when they FEAR you and MAKE YOU RUN AWAY! razzafrackin beholders). If that encounter is the only one that happens that session, it's also a lot easier to say that it's the only one that happens that day... which changes the metric of the game CONSIDERABLY. Even blowing all our powers in the last combat, fights can take a long time.

Eh, a couple of caveats: We have 6 PCs rather than the typical 4-5; and the last few encounters have been in situations where I know they'll be the only encounter of the day. If everything and the Kitchen sink is going to be thrown into one encounter, you need monsters that can withstand a kitchen sink. :smallsmile: Hopefully as of this next week, we should get back into 2 smaller encounters in a session rather than 1 huge encounter.


Cleric is more like "Here, take a Healing word. Oh look, you get 18 (2d6 +1d6 from pacifist healer, maximized via restful healing)+surge + 5 wis + 3 cha (pacifist healer) + 5 (Healer's Implement with +2 holy symbol, +2 healer's Brooch, +1 healer's armor). You're at full health now, right?

:smalleek: Oh my...

Mark Hall
2009-11-12, 10:33 PM
Eh, a couple of caveats: We have 6 PCs rather than the typical 4-5; and the last few encounters have been in situations where I know they'll be the only encounter of the day. If everything and the Kitchen sink is going to be thrown into one encounter, you need monsters that can withstand a kitchen sink. :smallsmile: Hopefully as of this next week, we should get back into 2 smaller encounters in a session rather than 1 huge encounter.

Bah! You confuse the issue with facts!


:smalleek: Oh my...

Wanna bet Ben wants to redesign Friar Hubert?