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-Baldur-
2009-11-12, 10:54 PM
Wand Walker
{table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Craft Specialised Wand, Wand Quarell (1)

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Wand Slot Modification, Wand Effect Modification

3rd|+2|+1|+1|+3|Craft Improved Specialised Wand

4th|+3|+1|+1|+4|Wand Quarell (2), Mechanical Insight

5th|+3|+1|+1|+4|Wand Craft Master, Wand Effect Modification

6th|+4|+2|+2|+5|Wand Slot Modification, Spell Swap

7th|+5|+2|+2|+5|Wand Quarell (3), Mechanical Integration

8th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+6|Wand Craft Prefect, Wand Effect Modification

9th|+6/+1|+3|+3|+6|Spell Sink (Lesser),

10th|+7/+2|+3|+3|+7|Wand Craft Grand Master, Empowered Strike

11th|+8/+3|+3|+3|+7|Wand Slot Modification, Master Spell Swap

12th|+9/+4|+4|+4|+8|Wand Quarell (4), Wand Effect Modification

13th|+9/+4|+4|+4|+8|Spell Sink(Greater),

14th|+10/+5|+4|+4|+9|Wand Slot Modification, Improved Empowered Strike

15th|+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+9|Metawand Creation, Mechanical Mind

16th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10|Wand Quarell (5), Spell Sink (Perfect)

17th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10|Wand Slot Modification, Wand Burst (1/Day)

18th|+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11|Wand Quarell (6), Dual wand Quarell

19th|+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Wand Slot Modification, Metawand Improvement

20th|+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|Mechanical Symbiot, Mechanical Genius, Wand Burst (2/Day).
[/table]


Spell Level Wand creation
{table="head"] |0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|3|1||||||||

2nd|4|2||||||||

3rd|4|2|1|||||||

4th|4|3|2|||||||

5th|4|3|2|1||||||

6th|4|3|3|2||||||

7th|4|4|3|2|1|||||

8th|4|4|3|3|2|||||

9th|4|4|4|3|2|1||||

10th|4|4|4|3|3|2||||

11th|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|||

12th|4|4|4|4|3|3|2|||

13th|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1||

14th|4|4|4|4|4|3|3|2||

15th|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|

16th|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|3|2|

17th|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1

18th|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|3|2

19th|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|3

20th|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|4
[/table]
Alignment: Any lawful
Hit Die: 1d10

Class Skills:
Class Skills
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Skills:

Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft: Wands (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Disable Device (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Magic Device (Cha).

The Wand Walker. Part construct Part human. A bio-organic machine. The Wand Walker starts out their life as a perfectly normal human who desires more control over their own bodies, and their abilities. So they fine tune. Slowly, as more modifications are added, as more magic is infused into their very core, they become the machine they so highly respect. Able to fire off charges from Wands through their palms, able to infuse parts of their body with the magic contained within wands, and able to lay devastation to a battlefield from inside the powerful chamber they reside in, the Wand Walker is a dangerous enemy to have and more often than not, seen as an abomination by most of the general populace.

Class Features

Craft Specialised Wand Specialised wands are cheaper by 50% both in material and XP costs. For all intensive purposes, this Class feature functions as a normal Craft: Wand, however the Specialised Wand can only
ever be used by the Wand Walker. If another individual barring a divine entity or some other higher power try and use the wand, it explodes, dealing 10d4 fire damage to all nearby. Specialised wands cannot be "Cast" they must be
inserted into either a Wand Quarrell or Wand Slot. The level of spell that a Wand Walker can infuse is listed on the table above. The Wand Walker has access to all Sorceror and Wizard spells, can transcribe from scrolls, and can
learn spells from other wizards spell books. However, he cannot cast these spells. All spells must be infused into a wand.

Wand Quarrell

The Wand Walker has modified his arm so that he may fire off charges from a wand through his palm. This is a painful process, and the Wand Walker requires a month of recovery after each modification to his arms. The Quarrell can initially only fit one wand, this increases to two at fourth level, three at seventh level, four at twelfth level, five at sixteenth level, and finally six at eighteenth level. The wands must be activated as per the spells
(ranged spells fired from a distance, touch spells within melee range) and apart from being fired from the palm, function like the spells exactly identical to both wizard and sorceror spells. Spells with a casting time are converted to "Instant". It is a Swift Action to swap from one wand to another as long as it is in the Quarell. Changing a wand out of the Quarell for a new one takes one hour per wand due to mechanical fidgeting and connections.

Wand Slot Modification

The Wand Walker has become fixated with improving himself. He may now attach one wand per body slot to his person. These body slots are: Legs (2), Arms (2), Torso (1), Head (1). He may choose any slot to fit at any level. Each slot applied to his person grants him DR 1/- up to a maximum of DR 6/-. This reflects the Mechanical changes his body undergoes. The Wand Walker may only apply applicable spells to body parts. E.G Haste Wands may only ever be placed in the legs, Shield spells may only ever be placed in the torso, True Seeing spells may only ever be placed in the Head. Once a wand is placed in a body slot, that wand is semi-permanent. The Wand Walker may only ever switch out the Wand for another upon gaining a level. Effect/Targeted/Ranged spells cannot be placed in Body slots.

All spells must effect the Wand Walker directly, or protect him directly. The effects of these spells are permanent, and do not need to be cast repetitively.

Wand Effect Modification

The Wand Walker may now choose to effect any of his spells (area or targeted) at +20 ft per Wand Effect Modification gained. (2, 5, 8 and 12th level) in any direction he wishes. That is, he can gain +20 range at second
level OR +20 width, or +20 area. At 12th level he can enlarge this to a 80ft area.

Craft Improved Specialised Wand


The cost of crafting a specialised wand is now 70% of the normal base price in xp and gold. All other conditions still apply.

Mechanical Insight

Due to the Wand Walker becoming even more mechanically minded the more his body is modified, and the more he spends around mechanical systems, he is now skilled in dealing with machines and mechanisms. He gains +5 on all Disable Device and Open lock checks, and any craft checks requiring mechanical components. The Wand Walker also gains Fast healing 1 as he learns to repair himself.

Wand Craft Master

The cost of making a specialised wand is now 80% of the base price in gold and XP. Also, any wand with a charge is now considered infinite as long as it is inside of a Wand Quarell.

Spell Swap

Once per day, the Wand Walker may choose to switch all Wands within his self to that of another spell of Equal or lesser level. This requires half an hour of concentration, and the Wand Walker must already know the spells swapped that are being swapped to. The spells cannot be changed back until the next day. The Wand Walker must swap all spells or none, he cannot choose to swap one or two unless he has run out of spells known.


Mechanical Integration

The Wand Walker now gains +10 on all disable device checks, his open lock check remains the same. He now also gains the ability to latch himself to another construct and feed off their energy. This does not require a grapple check, and may be performed as long as the Wand Walker is behind a hostile enemy construct. The Wand Walker drains 1d4 hit points a round, which are transferred as permanent hit points back to the walker. Each round allows the construct to make a reflex save to dislodge the Walker.

Wand Craft Prefect

The Wand Walker may now craft specialised wands at 95% of the base price in gold and Xp. He may now also allow one designated individual to use one, and only one, of the wands he has created. The wand is considered infinite, but can be no higher a spell level than 1/4 of the Wand Walkers current character level, rounded down. The wand is used at the Wand Walkers Caster level.

Spell Sink, lesser

All spells cast within 50ft of the Wand Walker now have a chance of being absorbed, learned, and converted to replace one of the spells currently in either a Body Modification slot, or a Wand Quarrell slot. Once the energy
has been successfully converted, this spell is forever known to the Wand Walker unless erased via magical means. This affects spell levels 1-4, and can be both wilfully cast and given, or hostiley taken. The enemy must succeed on an oppossed Spellcraft check.


Wand Craft Grand Master

The wand walker can now craft wands for no GP cost or XP cost, crafting wands becomes a free action, and no time must be spent crafting them. The Grand Master merely summons them to his hand. Any crafted wand may now be used by two individuals, the charges are infinite and the individuals can now use a wand spell level up to the Wand Walkers level, both individuals must possess a high enough UMD check to use the wand.

Empowered Strike

The Wand Walker may now channel a wands magic and infuse whatever weapon he may be holding. This is a two hand action even if he is carrying a one handed weapon. The spell level able to be infused into the weapon is equal to half the character level of the Wand Walker, rounded down. The target takes damage from both the weapon, and the spell, all status effects also still take place.

Master Spell Swap

The Wand Walker can now switch out one or two spells instead of the entire group.

Spell Sink, Greater

The Wand Walker may now sink spell levels from 1-7 instead of 1-4.

Improved Empowered Strike

The Wand Walker may now strike one handed instead of two, allowing them to dual wield Empowered strike, or alternatively to carry a shield.

Metawand Creation

The Wand Walker may now make Metamagic wands, the Wand Walker may apply this Metamagic 10 times per wand, after which the metamagic dissipates and a new wand must be created. Using the Metamagic this often drains the Wand Walker, and after using all 10 charges of Metamagic, the Wand Walker obtains 1 negative level and 1d4 Wisdom drain for 1 full week.

Mechanical Mind

The Wand Walker can no longer be affected by Mind Altering spells or effects, additionally, upon analysying a construct for X rounds before combat, the Wand Walker gains that amount to: To hit with weapons, To surpass DR and SR, to damage with both spells and weapons. The effect also lasts for as many rounds as the Walker spent observing the target.

Spell Sink, Perfect

The Wand Walker may now sink all spell levels and the distance grows out to 70ft instead of 50ft.

Wand Burst

The Wand Walker may simultaneously fire all wands in his current spell Quarrell. All wand effects take place immediately. The Wand Walker must succeed on a Fortitutde save or be knocked unconcious for 1d6 rounds by the immense pressure on his body that this ability takes. Further, even if the Wand Walker manages to stay awake, he suffers a temporary (1d8 rounds) Constitution loss of 4 points, and Strength loss of 2 points. This is abailable
once a day until 20th level when it becomes twice a day.

Dual Wand Quarell

The Wand Walker may now fire both Quarrells simultaneously. Each shot utilising this method drains 1d6 hit points from the Wand Walker due to the kickback of the shot. The Wand Walker may only aim at two seperate targets, if the spells should be directed at the same target, the beams cross and the Wand Walker must make a fortitude save or die, causing 5D12 hit die of damage to all those surrounding within a 50ft radius.

Metawand Improvement

The Wand Walker may now apply two metamagics to each wand he creates, however the charges now only last 5 and the Wand Walker loses two temporary negative levels and 1D6 Wisdom drain at the expiration of the charges).

Mechanical Symbiot

The Wand Walker has become one with his machine, he gains the Outsider template, gains +2 Strength, +2 Intelligence and -4 charisma. He also now suffers -5 on all diplomacy checks, but gains +5 on all Intimidate checks. He gains DR 2/- which also stacks with his modification DR.

Mechanical Genius

The Wand Walker gains a further +10 on Open locks, Disable Device and all checks involving mechanisms or machines, including crafting. He now also gains the ability to study any creature, humanoid or construct with moving parts for 2 rounds, and then his next attack (At full BAB) if successfull disables that target for 5 rounds.

Temotei
2009-11-12, 11:00 PM
Your table on wand spell levels is messed up a bit. I'll check back later to read it.

-Baldur-
2009-11-12, 11:21 PM
Your table on wand spell levels is messed up a bit. I'll check back later to read it.

You make a fair point...I wonder what on earth happened there. Will try and rescue it!

Obrysii
2009-11-12, 11:21 PM
In your Wand Quarell description, you mention "Quick Action" ... there is no such term; you are looking for swift action or free action.

Otherwise - an interesting class, for sure, but I think it might be better served as a prestige class.

-Baldur-
2009-11-12, 11:25 PM
In your Wand Quarell description, you mention "Quick Action" ... there is no such term; you are looking for swift action or free action.

Otherwise - an interesting class, for sure, but I think it might be better served as a prestige class.

Was waiting to find the correct term then was going to change it, and in my hasty excitement I posted too quick. Bahaha, fixed now!

See I initially thought prestige, but honestly had no idea what on earth to Prestige it after. Mage seemed weak and silly, fighter was a bad choice, bard....maybe, but the Bards abilities become useless in this class, thief definitely not, the abilities don't synergise well.

Suggestions?

Temotei
2009-11-12, 11:30 PM
Quarrel. Not Quarell.


The Wand Walker has become one with his machine, he gains the Outsider template, gains +2 Strength, +2 Intelligence and -3 charisma. He also now suffers -5 on all diplomacy checks, but gains +5 on all Intimidate checks. He gains DR 2/- which also stacks with his modification DR.

-3 Charisma is really random. You should probably make it -2 or -4. +5 for skills is a little weird, too, but not quite as odd. Those should be fine.

-Baldur-
2009-11-12, 11:37 PM
Quarrel. Not Quarell.



-3 Charisma is really random. You should probably make it -2 or -4. +5 for skills is a little weird, too, but not quite as odd. Those should be fine.

Hello my wonderful critiqueing friend. Changed and changed.

How do you feel about the balance? Brokeness? Abusable?

I feel on the more powerful abilities I gave him a hard enough kick in the stomach to warrant no player abusing them frequently.

I think he becomes a hard hitter/good all rounder at later levels. Especially for the clever player who applys skill improvement wands to the hands area. Should be a very versatile class.

But opinions?

Could he become supremely cheesy?

Temotei
2009-11-13, 01:32 AM
Hello my wonderful critiqueing friend. Changed and changed.

Hello. :smallcool: :smallbiggrin: I don't mean to pick on this, but quarrel is still misspelled in some places. Just saying. :smallwink:

You've also misspelled sorcerer in a few places.


Hit Die: 1d10

Class Skills:
Class Skills
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Skills:

Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft: Wands (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Disable Device (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Magic Device (Cha).

That's kind of messed up, too. :smallsmile: Put the class skills above skill points per level, where you have the first class skills section heading. Hit Die should be d10, not 1d10. Otherwise, you'd only get one hit die. That would suck. :smalltongue:


If another individual barring a divine entity or some other higher power try and use the wand, it explodes, dealing 10d4 fire damage to all nearby.

This is simply powerful at 1st level. Of course, you have to spend the XP and gp on making the wand in the first place, so I suppose it's sort of justified. Still...maybe change it to be 1d6/class level to a maximum of 10d6. Similar to a fireball spell, but more expensive. Otherwise, a 1st level wand walker could make a wand, then leave it out as a trap for someone, almost guaranteeing a kill at the CR of creatures at that level. Also, include a reflex save for half damage.


This is a painful process, and the Wand Walker requires a month of recovery after each modification to his arms.

I love this fluff, but a month of recovery is a long time, especially for an adventurer. Also, does this recovery only apply to the arms?


The Wand Walker has become fixated with improving himself. He may now attach one wand per body slot to his person. These body slots are: Legs (2), Arms (2), Torso (1), Head (1).

Do the numbers mean you can attach one wand per leg and arm (which is another question...do you get another slot for the arms?)?


Each slot applied to his person grants him DR 1/- up to a maximum of DR 6/-.

That's pretty powerful, especially for a "spellcaster." They also get d10 hit dice, which is really impressive.


This reflects the Mechanical changes his body undergoes.

Mechanical should be mechanical, unless you refer to a subtype or something.


Changing a wand out of the Quarell for a new one takes one hour per wand due to mechanical fidgeting and connections.

I like this, because it's like making them prepare spells, without making them...prepare spells. If you catch my drift.


E.G Haste Wands may only ever be placed in the legs, Shield spells may only ever be placed in the torso...

This is up for interpretation. I could easily argue that Haste is an arm slot, and shield is, too.


Effect/Targeted/Ranged spells cannot be placed in Body slots.

I imagine you mean every slot but arms...unless I'm missing the drift, here, and the wand quarrel ability uses your hands like a weapon. That would make sense...and it clears my confusion a little if so.


The effects of these spells are permanent, and do not need to be cast repetitively.

This could be abused fairly easily. Imagine an Enlarge Person on your torso, Bull's Strength in your arms...etc. Or a Stoneskin wand in your torso. I recommend making them like normal wands. Or, if you wanted a more constant enchantment, you could increase the length of these wands' spells by 1 round/level if it depends on rounds, or 1 minute/level if that's the case. 1 hour/level for the hourly ones...yep.


The Wand Walker may now choose to effect any of his spells (area or targeted) at +20 ft per Wand Effect Modification gained. (2, 5, 8 and 12th level) in any direction he wishes. That is, he can gain +20 range at second
level OR +20 width, or +20 area. At 12th level he can enlarge this to a 80ft area.

Personally, I'd never take range in this case. Unless I could have healing spells in my wands. Then I might. But then again, this doesn't say I can't add an area effect to a spell that doesn't originally have an area. You should clarify on that. Imagine a fireball that can destroy a small town because of increased area. :smallbiggrin: Pretty powerful.


The cost of crafting a specialised wand is now 70% of the normal base price in xp and gold. All other conditions still apply.

Ugh. 70% of 50%...That's a headache without a calculator. Maybe just bite down and make it another 50%.


The cost of making a specialised wand is now 80% of the base price in gold and XP. Also, any wand with a charge is now considered infinite as long as it is inside of a Wand Quarell.

...80% of 70% of 50% of the base price. :smalleek: That infinity ability is pretty crazy, if you think about it. Imagine an infinite Dispel Magic wand, or even Explosive Runes. You could make a wall of explosives in front of you.


he cannot choose to swap one or two unless he has run out of spells known.

You can't run out of spells known--only spells per day. And this class doesn't even cast. Unless I missed something in the class.


He now also gains the ability to latch himself to another construct and feed off their energy. This does not require a grapple check, and may be performed as long as the Wand Walker is behind a hostile enemy construct. The Wand Walker drains 1d4 hit points a round, which are transferred as permanent hit points back to the walker.

If it's not a grapple, latching themselves to a construct is probably not the right wording. Is it a touch attack? Also, you should specify that the wand walker can't get more hit points than their maximum.


Each round allows the construct to make a reflex save to dislodge the Walker.

What's the DC?


The Wand Walker may now craft specialised wands at 95% of the base price in gold and Xp.

Xp should be XP...95% of 80% of 70% of 50% of the base price...:smallfrown: You can also say gp instead of gold.


The wand is considered infinite, but can be no higher a spell level than 1/4 of the Wand Walkers current character level, rounded down.

It's odd that at 5th level, the wand walker can use infinite wands that hold 3rd level spells, but when you get to 8th level, you can only use 2nd level infinite wands. 1/4 is a good balance mechanism, but when you only apply it to one ability, it doesn't work.


All spells cast within 50ft of the Wand Walker now have a chance of being absorbed, learned, and converted to replace one of the spells currently in either a Body Modification slot, or a Wand Quarrell slot. Once the energy
has been successfully converted, this spell is forever known to the Wand Walker unless erased via magical means. This affects spell levels 1-4, and can be both wilfully cast and given, or hostiley taken. The enemy must succeed on an oppossed Spellcraft check.

Why 50 feet? It seems random. 30 - 60 feet works fine. Wilfully should be willfully. Oppossed should be opposed. And hostiley...well, I'm not sure what you mean. :smalltongue: Hostilely, maybe? Forcefully flows better.


The wand walker can now craft wands for no GP cost or XP cost, crafting wands becomes a free action, and no time must be spent crafting them.

This is certainly a lot simpler than before. Crafting wands becomes a free action? That's like giving them any spell, at any time, that they know. With spell sink, they could easily know many, many spells to circumvent obstacles everywhere. Also, the "and no time must be spent crafting them" part is unnecessary. It's redundant.



Any crafted wand may now be used by two individuals, the charges are infinite and the individuals can now use a wand spell level up to the Wand Walkers level, both individuals must possess a high enough UMD check to use the wand.

Two individuals not including, or including the wand walker?


The Wand Walker may now channel a wands magic and infuse whatever weapon he may be holding. This is a two hand action even if he is carrying a one handed weapon. The spell level able to be infused into the weapon is equal to half the character level of the Wand Walker, rounded down. The target takes damage from both the weapon, and the spell, all status effects also still take place.

Do area effect spells work, too? Up top, "wands" should be wand's. By "two hand action," do you mean you have to attack with both hands? You should also consider applying only 1/2 the class level of the wand walker, instead of character level. "...both the weapon, and the spell,..." should be "...both the weapon and the spell,..." This is pretty powerful, too, especially if your weapon is enchanted. How many attacks does the spell stay infused in the weapon for?



The Wand Walker may now strike one handed instead of two, allowing them to dual wield Empowered strike, or alternatively to carry a shield.

Are you able to infuse two weapons at once, or do you have to cast separately for each? Can you infuse a shield with a spell, if you plan on shield bashing?


The Wand Walker may now make Metamagic wands, the Wand Walker may apply this Metamagic 10 times per wand, after which the metamagic dissipates and a new wand must be created. Using the Metamagic this often drains the Wand Walker, and after using all 10 charges of Metamagic, the Wand Walker obtains 1 negative level and 1d4 Wisdom drain for 1 full week.

That's a huge penalty for just having some metamagic casting. A caster would be inclined to cast nine times, then discard it before the tenth casting. I recommend revising this, although I don't know how to go about it.



The Wand Walker can no longer be affected by Mind Altering spells or effects, additionally, upon analysying a construct for X rounds before combat, the Wand Walker gains that amount to: To hit with weapons, To surpass DR and SR, to damage with both spells and weapons. The effect also lasts for as many rounds as the Walker spent observing the target.

This is cool, but might need a bit of refining. First of all, analyzing. Not analysying. :smalltongue: I think there's an alternate British spelling of analysing too. It seems like you're using some spellings that are inherently British, so just pointing that out. Does being immune to "mind altering" spells include mind-affecting spells (or effects)?


The Wand Walker may now sink all spell levels and the distance grows out to 70ft instead of 50ft.

Again, 70 feet is really random. I recommend 60 feet for this, and 30 feet for the previous versions.



The Wand Walker may simultaneously fire all wands in his current spell Quarrell. All wand effects take place immediately. The Wand Walker must succeed on a Fortitutde save or be knocked unconcious for 1d6 rounds by the immense pressure on his body that this ability takes. Further, even if the Wand Walker manages to stay awake, he suffers a temporary (1d8 rounds) Constitution loss of 4 points, and Strength loss of 2 points. This is abailable
once a day until 20th level when it becomes twice a day.

Interesting. Fortitude, not Fortitutde; unconscious, not unconcious; available, not abailable. Otherwise, I really like this ability. I'd say make Strength drop 4 points, instead of 2. Firing all the wands at once is really powerful, considering you could easily have many powerful destruction spells. Consider even making the penalties steeper. It doesn't even affect the wand walker's "wand-casting" abilities, so it could help balance it more. Especially since your grand master version of wand craft lets you craft a wand of a spell level equal to your level. Technically, that means you could create epic spells at 10th level...maybe you should change that. In fact, do that.


The Wand Walker may now fire both Quarrells simultaneously. Each shot utilising this method drains 1d6 hit points from the Wand Walker due to the kickback of the shot. The Wand Walker may only aim at two seperate targets, if the spells should be directed at the same target, the beams cross and the Wand Walker must make a fortitude save or die, causing 5D12 hit die of damage to all those surrounding within a 50ft radius.

Separate, not seperate. I imagine utilising is British for utilizing. :smallsmile: This might be too powerful. It's like having a quickened spell and a not-quickened spell, without the additional costs a wizard or sorcerer has to pay. Fortitude for some reason is always capitalized in D&D when it talks of the saving throw. So capitalize that, as well. Does the 5d12 damage go around the wand walker, or does it center on the crossed part of the beams (halfway between you and the target seems reasonable), or on the target? Also, does the same thing happen if your wands are touch spells? It would seem odd to have that.


The Wand Walker may now apply two metamagics to each wand he creates, however the charges now only last 5 and the Wand Walker loses two temporary negative levels and 1D6 Wisdom drain at the expiration of the charges).

Harsh, man. :smallcool: The parenthesis is unnecessary at the end.



Mechanical Symbiot

Should be mechanical symbiote, or mechanical symbiosis, depending on what you are going for. Are you describing the process, or the wand walker themselves?


The Wand Walker gains a further +10 on Open locks, Disable Device and all checks involving mechanisms or machines, including crafting. He now also gains the ability to study any creature, humanoid or construct with moving parts for 2 rounds, and then his next attack (At full BAB) if successfull disables that target for 5 rounds.

Successful, not successfull. I like this ability. Disabling is pretty powerful.


The Wand Walker has become one with his machine, he gains the Outsider template...

Wouldn't it make more sense to say they become a construct? Did I miss them becoming a construct before? Also, it adds +2 Str, +2 Int, and -4 Cha. It would almost make more sense to add +2 Con, +2 Int, and -4 Cha, instead. Your call, though.

That's all I've got for now. Oh, and don't capitalize the ability or class name when using it in a sentence. The only time you capitalize those are in the table if they're the first ability in the level, or in their headings. For the class name capitalization, it happens mainly when you're labeling the table, and when you present it. Capitalize on the top of the page.

EDIT: Sorry for the super-long post. :smallredface: Hehe.

-Baldur-
2009-11-13, 05:45 AM
Hello. :smallcool: :smallbiggrin: I don't mean to pick on this, but quarrel is still misspelled in some places. Just saying. :smallwink:

You've also misspelled sorcerer in a few places.



That's kind of messed up, too. :smallsmile: Put the class skills above skill points per level, where you have the first class skills section heading. Hit Die should be d10, not 1d10. Otherwise, you'd only get one hit die. That would suck. :smalltongue:



This is simply powerful at 1st level. Of course, you have to spend the XP and gp on making the wand in the first place, so I suppose it's sort of justified. Still...maybe change it to be 1d6/class level to a maximum of 10d6. Similar to a fireball spell, but more expensive. Otherwise, a 1st level wand walker could make a wand, then leave it out as a trap for someone, almost guaranteeing a kill at the CR of creatures at that level. Also, include a reflex save for half damage.



I love this fluff, but a month of recovery is a long time, especially for an adventurer. Also, does this recovery only apply to the arms?



Do the numbers mean you can attach one wand per leg and arm (which is another question...do you get another slot for the arms?)?



That's pretty powerful, especially for a "spellcaster." They also get d10 hit dice, which is really impressive.



Mechanical should be mechanical, unless you refer to a subtype or something.



I like this, because it's like making them prepare spells, without making them...prepare spells. If you catch my drift.



This is up for interpretation. I could easily argue that Haste is an arm slot, and shield is, too.



I imagine you mean every slot but arms...unless I'm missing the drift, here, and the wand quarrel ability uses your hands like a weapon. That would make sense...and it clears my confusion a little if so.



This could be abused fairly easily. Imagine an Enlarge Person on your torso, Bull's Strength in your arms...etc. Or a Stoneskin wand in your torso. I recommend making them like normal wands. Or, if you wanted a more constant enchantment, you could increase the length of these wands' spells by 1 round/level if it depends on rounds, or 1 minute/level if that's the case. 1 hour/level for the hourly ones...yep.



Personally, I'd never take range in this case. Unless I could have healing spells in my wands. Then I might. But then again, this doesn't say I can't add an area effect to a spell that doesn't originally have an area. You should clarify on that. Imagine a fireball that can destroy a small town because of increased area. :smallbiggrin: Pretty powerful.



Ugh. 70% of 50%...That's a headache without a calculator. Maybe just bite down and make it another 50%.



...80% of 70% of 50% of the base price. :smalleek: That infinity ability is pretty crazy, if you think about it. Imagine an infinite Dispel Magic wand, or even Explosive Runes. You could make a wall of explosives in front of you.



You can't run out of spells known--only spells per day. And this class doesn't even cast. Unless I missed something in the class.



If it's not a grapple, latching themselves to a construct is probably not the right wording. Is it a touch attack? Also, you should specify that the wand walker can't get more hit points than their maximum.



What's the DC?


Xp should be XP...95% of 80% of 70% of 50% of the base price...:smallfrown: You can also say gp instead of gold.



It's odd that at 5th level, the wand walker can use infinite wands that hold 3rd level spells, but when you get to 8th level, you can only use 2nd level infinite wands. 1/4 is a good balance mechanism, but when you only apply it to one ability, it doesn't work.



Why 50 feet? It seems random. 30 - 60 feet works fine. Wilfully should be willfully. Oppossed should be opposed. And hostiley...well, I'm not sure what you mean. :smalltongue: Hostilely, maybe? Forcefully flows better.



This is certainly a lot simpler than before. Crafting wands becomes a free action? That's like giving them any spell, at any time, that they know. With spell sink, they could easily know many, many spells to circumvent obstacles everywhere. Also, the "and no time must be spent crafting them" part is unnecessary. It's redundant.



Two individuals not including, or including the wand walker?



Do area effect spells work, too? Up top, "wands" should be wand's. By "two hand action," do you mean you have to attack with both hands? You should also consider applying only 1/2 the class level of the wand walker, instead of character level. "...both the weapon, and the spell,..." should be "...both the weapon and the spell,..." This is pretty powerful, too, especially if your weapon is enchanted. How many attacks does the spell stay infused in the weapon for?



Are you able to infuse two weapons at once, or do you have to cast separately for each? Can you infuse a shield with a spell, if you plan on shield bashing?



That's a huge penalty for just having some metamagic casting. A caster would be inclined to cast nine times, then discard it before the tenth casting. I recommend revising this, although I don't know how to go about it.



This is cool, but might need a bit of refining. First of all, analyzing. Not analysying. :smalltongue: I think there's an alternate British spelling of analysing too. It seems like you're using some spellings that are inherently British, so just pointing that out. Does being immune to "mind altering" spells include mind-affecting spells (or effects)?



Again, 70 feet is really random. I recommend 60 feet for this, and 30 feet for the previous versions.



Interesting. Fortitude, not Fortitutde; unconscious, not unconcious; available, not abailable. Otherwise, I really like this ability. I'd say make Strength drop 4 points, instead of 2. Firing all the wands at once is really powerful, considering you could easily have many powerful destruction spells. Consider even making the penalties steeper. It doesn't even affect the wand walker's "wand-casting" abilities, so it could help balance it more. Especially since your grand master version of wand craft lets you craft a wand of a spell level equal to your level. Technically, that means you could create epic spells at 10th level...maybe you should change that. In fact, do that.



Separate, not seperate. I imagine utilising is British for utilizing. :smallsmile: This might be too powerful. It's like having a quickened spell and a not-quickened spell, without the additional costs a wizard or sorcerer has to pay. Fortitude for some reason is always capitalized in D&D when it talks of the saving throw. So capitalize that, as well. Does the 5d12 damage go around the wand walker, or does it center on the crossed part of the beams (halfway between you and the target seems reasonable), or on the target? Also, does the same thing happen if your wands are touch spells? It would seem odd to have that.



Harsh, man. :smallcool: The parenthesis is unnecessary at the end.



Should be mechanical symbiote, or mechanical symbiosis, depending on what you are going for. Are you describing the process, or the wand walker themselves?



Successful, not successfull. I like this ability. Disabling is pretty powerful.



Wouldn't it make more sense to say they become a construct? Did I miss them becoming a construct before? Also, it adds +2 Str, +2 Int, and -4 Cha. It would almost make more sense to add +2 Con, +2 Int, and -4 Cha, instead. Your call, though.

That's all I've got for now. Oh, and don't capitalize the ability or class name when using it in a sentence. The only time you capitalize those are in the table if they're the first ability in the level, or in their headings. For the class name capitalization, it happens mainly when you're labeling the table, and when you present it. Capitalize on the top of the page.

EDIT: Sorry for the super-long post. :smallredface: Hehe.

SWEET HOLY LORD MAN!!! lol.

Wow when you critique....You really critique. lol. Like....Really.

However, I appreciate every single little comment. I will work on everything you mentioned this weekend. Piece by piece, and come Monday/Tuesday, we shall see how we go with what you've suggested.

Some issues you brought up REALLY throw balance. However I like the idea of infinite dispel magic. That'd really shove it up The Batman Wizard eh? lol.

I will get onto all this! Thanks man!!

Dante & Vergil
2009-11-13, 02:21 PM
Disclaimer: If you want to skim through this, the problems I address are in Red and the solutions I suggest for them are in Blue. (Colors of Dante plus Vergil respectively.:smallbiggrin:)

I have to say something that I don't think has been caught yet. Usually wands can only hold spells of levels 1-4 and use fixed DCs and caster level, and I'm pretty sure that would clash with your class. You may need to specify that you can break all of these barriers, and have it scale with you, like what a staff does but with only 1 spell per wand.

Also, you need to change the wording on the cost-reducing abilities of the class because as they stand now, by the way it's worded, it actually gets worse.


Craft Specialised Wand Specialised wands are cheaper by 50% both in material and XP costs. For all intensive purposes, this Class feature functions as a normal Craft: Wand, however the Specialised Wand can only
ever be used by the Wand Walker. If another individual barring a divine entity or some other higher power try and use the wand, it explodes, dealing 10d4 fire damage to all nearby. Specialised wands cannot be "Cast" they must be
inserted into either a Wand Quarrell or Wand Slot. The level of spell that a Wand Walker can infuse is listed on the table above. The Wand Walker has access to all Sorceror and Wizard spells, can transcribe from scrolls, and can
learn spells from other wizards spell books. However, he cannot cast these spells. All spells must be infused into a wand.

...

Craft Improved Specialised Wand


The cost of crafting a specialised wand is now 70% of the normal base price in xp and gold. All other conditions still apply.

...

Wand Craft Master

The cost of making a specialised wand is now 80% of the base price in gold and XP. Also, any wand with a charge is now considered infinite as long as it is inside of a Wand Quarell.

...

Wand Craft Prefect

The Wand Walker may now craft specialised wands at 95% of the base price in gold and Xp. He may now also allow one designated individual to use one, and only one, of the wands he has created. The wand is considered infinite, but can be no higher a spell level than 1/4 of the Wand Walkers current character level, rounded down. The wand is used at the Wand Walkers Caster level. ...

You start out by paying 50% of the cost. (Which before this is half the market price in gp and 1/25 of the market price in xp.) Then it becomes 70% of the base price, which is paying more than the 50% beforehand, and after that it becomes 80%, then 95%. It keeps going up until you Wand Craft Grandmaster (too many spaces for my taste) which drops the price to 0. For all of these wordings you should say "You may now craft specialised wands using N% less of the base price in gold." and I would think you wouldn't want these to stack with eachother as well so add "This overides the previous abilities this class obtained that reduce the gp and xp costs." to them as well.

And last but not least, you have abilities that make you cast spells all day long or that last indefinitely. This wouldn't be a problem as you have to pay a pretty hefty cost to craft those anyway when you craft the wands, but when making them becomes free, I know people aren't going to let that sit with them as it is going to get pretty out of hand. I'm going to suggest that you do something to change it. Don't flat out say that the class can't use them, because people don't like having their options limited. I say you use half of the percentage the class uses for cost reduction for reducing the price of expensive material components and experience point costs. (With Wand Craft Grandmaster reducing the cost by 50%.)

Temotei
2009-11-13, 05:08 PM
You start out by paying 50% of the cost. (Which before this is half the market price in gp and 1/25 of the market price in xp.) Then it becomes 70% of the base price, which is paying more than the 50% beforehand, and after that it becomes 80%, then 95%. It keeps going up until you Wand Craft Grandmaster (too many spaces for my taste) which drops the price to 0. For all of these wordings you should say "You may now craft specialised wands using N% less of the base price in gold." and I would think you wouldn't want these to stack with eachother as well so add "This overides the previous abilities this class obtained that reduce the gp and xp costs." to them as well.

Yeah. That was one of my issues. I figured he meant to lower the "base cost" of creation for the wand walker. In other words, the base cost is changed for the wand walker to 50% at the first upgrade, so that's the new base cost. That was my interpretation. Either way, clearer wording would be great.


And last but not least, you have abilities that make you cast spells all day long or that last indefinitely. This wouldn't be a problem as you have to pay a pretty hefty cost to craft those anyway when you craft the wands, but when making them becomes free, I know people aren't going to let that sit with them as it is going to get pretty out of hand. I'm going to suggest that you do something to change it. Don't flat out say that the class can't use them, because people don't like having their options limited. I say you use half of the percentage the class uses for cost reduction for reducing the price of expensive material components and experience point costs. (With Wand Craft Grandmaster reducing the cost by 50%.)

Or having zero (or a very small) XP cost, but keep gp costs higher. This could still be abused, I suppose, though. Especially at higher levels, when gold is the major encumbrance factor for adventurers.

-Baldur-
2009-11-13, 05:58 PM
Yeah. That was one of my issues. I figured he meant to lower the "base cost" of creation for the wand walker. In other words, the base cost is changed for the wand walker to 50% at the first upgrade, so that's the new base cost. That was my interpretation. Either way, clearer wording would be great.



Or having zero (or a very small) XP cost, but keep gp costs higher. This could still be abused, I suppose, though. Especially at higher levels, when gold is the major encumbrance factor for adventurers.

You are both correct. I meant that it overrides previous abilities *smiles* So yes, clearer wording will definitely be needed. Tam, I'm still writing down all the issues in your last post and working out how on earth I'm going to fix them all. lol.

I know wands are usually levels 1-4, this class does override that, but restricts other pc's from using the created wands (til later levels).

I like the idea of using gold but not XP, but I'd still like to keep the gold somewhat lower, because if he has to pay for it he will eventually run out unless he adventures indefinitely.

The body slot permanent ones I like...but I think I will definitely have to note some restrictions (nothing that changes your base shape etc).

Any suggestions on abusable spells that should definitely be restricted?

Temotei
2009-11-13, 06:08 PM
Any suggestions on abusable spells that should definitely be restricted?

Wish/Miracle? Since they're wands, I don't think there's an XP cost, is there? :smallwink: Infinite casts...yeah.

Maybe you should restrict the "infinity wands" to being 5th level or less? Or something?

-Baldur-
2009-11-15, 04:13 PM
Wish/Miracle? Since they're wands, I don't think there's an XP cost, is there? :smallwink: Infinite casts...yeah.

Maybe you should restrict the "infinity wands" to being 5th level or less? Or something?

Hmmmm not a bad idea, not a bad idea at all. In fact, amongst your novel worth of advice, I think I will also make this a definite change. Well done my good man. Bahaha.

Temotei
2009-11-15, 08:39 PM
Craft Specialised Wand Specialised wands are...

Going by the rest of your abilities, "Craft Specialised Wand" should be above the description.


Craft Improved Specialised Wand


The cost of crafting a specialised wand is...

Also going by the rest of your abilities, there should be one less line of space in between "Craft Improved Specialised Wand" and the description.


Hmmmm not a bad idea, not a bad idea at all. In fact, amongst your novel worth of advice, I think I will also make this a definite change. Well done my good man. Bahaha.

:smallbiggrin: Thanks. I love to help.

EDIT: Oh, and put the types of abilities after each name. (Ex), (Sp), and (Su).

-Baldur-
2009-11-15, 09:20 PM
Going by the rest of your abilities, "Craft Specialised Wand" should be above the description.



Also going by the rest of your abilities, there should be one less line of space in between "Craft Improved Specialised Wand" and the description.



:smallbiggrin: Thanks. I love to help.

EDIT: Oh, and put the types of abilities after each name. (Ex), (Sp), and (Su).

See now that's ALWAYS confused me with homebrewing. How on earth do I decide which one it is? What's the difference? What does it affect? Help. Meep.

Temotei
2009-11-15, 09:23 PM
Special Abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#specialAbilities)

That. Take a look at some other homebrews, and learn from them. You can always use my radiant monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129793) as an example.

-Baldur-
2009-11-15, 09:33 PM
Special Abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#specialAbilities)

That. Take a look at some other homebrews, and learn from them. You can always use my radiant monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129793) as an example.

You're like the most resourceful little bugger ever aren't you? lol.

Temotei
2009-11-15, 09:37 PM
You're like the most resourceful little bugger ever aren't you? lol.

Yes. :smalltongue: Not counting Chuck Norris...obviously.

Delandel
2009-11-15, 09:51 PM
I really think you should read up on the Artificer class if you have access to the Eberron Campaign setting. I think it's very close to what you're aiming for, just a different fluff.

I haven't read the entire class because, well, there's alot to read. I'd suggest trying to simplify the enormous quantity of abilities into a small package. Having access to spells even before the mighty wizard is a serious red flag though. Also keep in mind there's many feats that reduce crafting costs, this could easily drop his wand crafting to free, and that could be really really bad.

Milskidasith
2009-11-15, 10:25 PM
Wait, I'm confused. Why are we not pointing out the fact that this has full wizard spellcasting (though it doesn't list it anywhere) and a bunch of additional abilities? Unless the wands use spell slots (which is just weird; since when did wands use spell slots to activate) this is strictly better than wizard, which is already a big 6 class. If it does require wands to cast, then the entire concept of spell slots makes no sense, and it's useless at level 1 since, well, when are you going to have enough for crafted wands at that level? You wouldn't have the EXP.

Also, why are Spellcraft and Concentration not class skills? It makes no sense.

Temotei
2009-11-15, 10:27 PM
Wait, I'm confused. Why are we not pointing out the fact that this has full wizard spellcasting (though it doesn't list it anywhere) and a bunch of additional abilities? Unless the wands use spell slots (which is just weird; since when did wands use spell slots to activate) this is strictly better than wizard, which is already a big 6 class.

Also, why are Spellcraft and Concentration not class skills? It makes no sense.

The class doesn't use spells. It uses wands to use spells. So it's technically not a spellcasting class...

EDIT: He also lowered the cost of wands with the class feature. At 1st level, it might be a little too expensive, though, I agree...since wands are, I think, 750 gp x spell level. Or something like that. I think there's a modifier, too.

Milskidasith
2009-11-15, 10:28 PM
The class doesn't use spells. It uses wands to use spells. So it's technically not a spellcasting class...

Ah, so it's useless at first level and has a weird table where, unlike every other class, it has a limitation on when it can use wands. So... yeah, still doesn't make sense, but at least every spell he casts is auto quickened and can be used to react to anything (all spells have a casting time of instantaneous).

Plus Wand Grand Master lets him make wands of level 20 spells, which is... rather broken. Even if it were limited to a normal level, it's still a free action to create a wand (he can't immediately use, granted), and he can cast all those level 20 spells as instant actions twice per round (and another two times per round if he can willingly cast spells as a standard action).

So it's still broken, woo!

-Baldur-
2009-11-15, 10:32 PM
Wait, I'm confused. Why are we not pointing out the fact that this has full wizard spellcasting (though it doesn't list it anywhere) and a bunch of additional abilities? Unless the wands use spell slots (which is just weird; since when did wands use spell slots to activate) this is strictly better than wizard, which is already a big 6 class. If it does require wands to cast, then the entire concept of spell slots makes no sense, and it's useless at level 1 since, well, when are you going to have enough for crafted wands at that level? You wouldn't have the EXP.

Also, why are Spellcraft and Concentration not class skills? It makes no sense.

The class is more aimed at being a wizard killer. Though I haven't written any fluff so I can see why you wouldn't think that.

Plus, they don't get the full spell casting versatility that Wizards do. They have whole spell levels worth of options. These guys basically have a quarrell of 6, and 6 body slots. (Admittedly they get the ability to use their Spell Sink levels and swap these out). But if I do amp the creation GP cost (Which I think I will) then they're paying for every Wand they make/give/break. Wizards don't pay for spells. Well at least not heavily enough.

And huge Oops on Spellcraft and Concentration not being on the Class list.

Milskidasith
2009-11-15, 10:38 PM
The class is more aimed at being a wizard killer. Though I haven't written any fluff so I can see why you wouldn't think that.

Plus, they don't get the full spell casting versatility that Wizards do. They have whole spell levels worth of options. These guys basically have a quarrell of 6, and 6 body slots. (Admittedly they get the ability to use their Spell Sink levels and swap these out). But if I do amp the creation GP cost (Which I think I will) then they're paying for every Wand they make/give/break. Wizards don't pay for spells. Well at least not heavily enough.

And huge Oops on Spellcraft and Concentration not being on the Class list.


12 spells is a pretty good amount when you consider they can create free action wands of, I don't know, Empowered Maximized Fell Drained Twinned Wish and cast it as an instant action. Hell, use that to recreate, say, Ressurection, and you can revive your party members for no EXP cost as an instant action (granted, the intensified and twinned don't work out there, but you can just use that for when you wish to replicate an eight level direct damage spell).

So yeah, they have every eighth level spell at tenth level (free action 10th level spell wands; +1 metamagic on Wish for the win!) So they're really a hell of a lot better than wizards. Like, tier 0 level.

EDIT: And I STILL have no clue why you have a table for spells cast per day. Wands work by UMD, not by requiring spellcasting. The table seems out of place and is not referenced anywhere else.

-Baldur-
2009-11-15, 10:40 PM
Ah, so it's useless at first level and has a weird table where, unlike every other class, it has a limitation on when it can use wands. So... yeah, still doesn't make sense, but at least every spell he casts is auto quickened and can be used to react to anything (all spells have a casting time of instantaneous).

Plus Wand Grand Master lets him make wands of level 20 spells, which is... rather broken. Even if it were limited to a normal level, it's still a free action to create a wand (he can't immediately use, granted), and he can cast all those level 20 spells as instant actions twice per round (and another two times per round if he can willingly cast spells as a standard action).

So it's still broken, woo!

Working on lowering the body slots to only levels 1-5. Which will further nerf him. But don't forget, using six spells as a way to damage isn't that unlike that of a wizard. Granted he's getting wands for free, but he can really only use six at a time, and even then once per round, and if he decides to fire off two he's penalized, and if he fires off all of them he's SEVERELY penalised, if he decides to add Metamagic he's even further penalised. The wizard isn't penalised for his spell casting.

Any who. Start with suggestions, I'll work on the modifications!

Milskidasith
2009-11-15, 10:45 PM
Instantaneous spells is still broken. Your penalties don't have any effect in combat in terms of creating wands. Actually, since you can create wands freely, you just cast a wand with metamagic 9/4 times and then dump it for a new instantaneously created wand Your penalties for firing two spells are incredibly minimal, as well. There is no fortitude save listed for casting all your spells at once.

The problem is all spells are INSTANTANEOUS. That's like getting an uber quicken, for free (quicken makes them swift actions, instantaneous means you can cast any time during the opponent's turn, and once on your round). The fact you can create spell level = your class level wands is also absurd, because, quite frankly, level 10 spells at level 10 is nuts. Dual wand quarrel is 1d6 damage. That is nothing. Even without it, you still get two spells a round.

-Baldur-
2009-11-15, 10:53 PM
Instantaneous spells is still broken. Your penalties don't have any effect in combat in terms of creating wands. Actually, since you can create wands freely, you just cast a wand with metamagic 9/4 times and then dump it for a new instantaneously created wand Your penalties for firing two spells are incredibly minimal, as well. There is no fortitude save listed for casting all your spells at once.

The problem is all spells are INSTANTANEOUS. That's like getting an uber quicken, for free (quicken makes them swift actions, instantaneous means you can cast any time during the opponent's turn, and once on your round). The fact you can create spell level = your class level wands is also absurd, because, quite frankly, level 10 spells at level 10 is nuts. Dual wand quarrel is 1d6 damage. That is nothing. Even without it, you still get two spells a round.

Ok. How's this? lol:

We cut off Instantaneous, make it half time. We uber power the damage taken for Dual Firing a wand. Say 2D10, or 3D10, that would hurt a lot. But you'd gain something from doing it. So it'd be worth it in a bad situation.

Then we nerf metamagic. Say they take a penalty of 1D4 every time they fire off a metamagiced spell. That way their High Hit points are accounted for, plus it related to the fluff (The mechanised walker uses it's own blood to fuel it's wand creation) and then we have a High hit point, pays in blood, nerfed version of what I created. Opinions? :-D

Milskidasith
2009-11-15, 10:58 PM
[QUOTE=-Baldur-;7323790]
We cut off Instantaneous, make it half time. We uber power the damage taken for Dual Firing a wand. Say 2D10, or 3D10, that would hurt a lot. But you'd gain something from doing it. So it'd be worth it in a bad situation.

There is no such thing as half of a standard action. Just remove the ability to speed up casting entirely; the action economy is the most valuable thing in the game besides maybe the GP, and you already break that economy.


Then we nerf metamagic. Say they take a penalty of 1D4 every time they fire off a metamagiced spell. That way their High Hit points are accounted for, plus it related to the fluff (The mechanised walker uses it's own blood to fuel it's wand creation) and then we have a High hit point, pays in blood, nerfed version of what I created. Opinions? :-D

1d4 what? If it's HP, that's still broken. Plus, that doesn't change that you can instantly create wands of spells far beyond your normal means, for free, and let your party members use them. Even if you don't use metamagic, you still get Wish, Limited Wish, Miracle, Bend Reality, and Alter Reality (I believe those are the Psionic wishes) for free at level 10.

-Baldur-
2009-11-15, 11:05 PM
[QUOTE]

There is no such thing as half of a standard action. Just remove the ability to speed up casting entirely; the action economy is the most valuable thing in the game besides maybe the GP, and you already break that economy.



1d4 what? If it's HP, that's still broken. Plus, that doesn't change that you can instantly create wands of spells far beyond your normal means, for free, and let your party members use them. Even if you don't use metamagic, you still get Wish, Limited Wish, Miracle, Bend Reality, and Alter Reality (I believe those are the Psionic wishes) for free at level 10.

Okay, simply fixed. 1D10 damage every time he casts metamagic spells. You cannot possibly say that's broken. That's 10 spells and he's close to dead. A wizard can pump his spells and suffer no damage except for spell slot loss. And on the Wish, Limited Wish fronts. If he abuses reality, the GM chucks an Inevitable at him. Alternatively, we rule that No wand can significantly alter reality, change time, save lives or bend the rules of the world in any form. I believe I stated in the Class Features that only Targeted/Touch spells may be in the Spell Quarrel, and only body affecting/character affecting spells may be in the Body Slots.

Milskidasith
2009-11-15, 11:13 PM
[QUOTE=Milskidasith;7323829]

Okay, simply fixed. 1D10 damage every time he casts metamagic spells. You cannot possibly say that's broken. That's 10 spells and he's close to dead. A wizard can pump his spells and suffer no damage except for spell slot loss. And on the Wish, Limited Wish fronts. If he abuses reality, the GM chucks an Inevitable at him. Alternatively, we rule that No wand can significantly alter reality, change time, save lives or bend the rules of the world in any form. I believe I stated in the Class Features that only Targeted/Touch spells may be in the Spell Quarrel, and only body affecting/character affecting spells may be in the Body Slots.

If your class needs rule 0 to be fixed, then it's not good. As for 10 spells and he's close to dead... are you kidding me? He gets it at level 15, and unless he has 10 con and no other ways of boosting health (including his DR X/-, which happens to apply to the damage taken by wand use), that's not going to hurt much. This still doesn't change you can create wands of 9th level spells, freely, at level 10 and have your party use them.

Temotei
2009-11-15, 11:15 PM
If your class needs rule 0 to be fixed, then it's not good.

That's not nice. :smalleek:

-Baldur-
2009-11-15, 11:17 PM
[QUOTE=-Baldur-;7323878]

If your class needs rule 0 to be fixed, then it's not good. As for 10 spells and he's close to dead... are you kidding me? He gets it at level 15, and unless he has 10 con and no other ways of boosting health (including his DR X/-, which happens to apply to the damage taken by wand use), that's not going to hurt much. This still doesn't change you can create wands of 9th level spells, freely, at level 10 and have your party use them.

Bahaha wow are you booping all over my creatively juiced juices here my friend. 1D10 for -every single- metamagic spell he casts, plus damage from dual firing, plus damage from firing all of them. He could basically kill himself with three of his own class features. No other class pays that heavily in blood for their own abilities. And the nerfing of spells was already discussed, it shall be levels 1-5 not up to levels 9. :-)

And only two members of the party can use the wands. And those party members still need UMD, or suffer. Why are there three people in a party with UMD maxed? Normally there wouldn't be. So the dangers of using the wands are still inherent.

I still feel the big Tier 6's pee all over this guy, especially considering how much he damages himself to pay for his abilities.

P.S This is really raising my interest in creating a D12 hit point character with "pays for abilities with bloody" theme. lol.

-Baldur-
2009-11-15, 11:19 PM
That's not nice. :smalleek:

*le sigh* I am saddened. lol.

Temotei
2009-11-15, 11:20 PM
P.S This is really raising my interest in creating a D12 hit point character with "pays for abilities with bloody" theme. lol.

This reminds me of the Bio-Mage by Zeta Kai.


*le sigh* I am saddened. lol.

:smallbiggrin:

-Baldur-
2009-11-15, 11:23 PM
This reminds me of the Bio-Mage by Zeta Kai.



:smallbiggrin:

Linkage to Bio Mage?

Temotei
2009-11-15, 11:26 PM
Bio-Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42355)

Yeah. I need to fill some text.

Milskidasith
2009-11-15, 11:54 PM
Level 10 spells at 10th level. You don't NEED any of the other abilities. Even if you can't use them, you can still create them... and even if you stick to level 1-5 for spells, it's still got more utility than a mage because, well, you can still cast almost every spell you want near instantly (or get somebody else to, anyway).

Temotei
2009-11-16, 12:01 AM
Level 10 spells at 10th level. You don't NEED any of the other abilities. Even if you can't use them, you can still create them... and even if you stick to level 1-5 for spells, it's still got more utility than a mage because, well, you can still cast almost every spell you want near instantly (or get somebody else to, anyway).

What would you suggest?

Milskidasith
2009-11-16, 12:12 AM
What would you suggest?

I would suggest you make Wand Grand Master still require time to create, even if it costs no gold, and only make spells of up to one half your level. Then you've got free level appropriate wands at a time cost, much as you can get free level appropriate spells with a wizard. Also, a maximum on wands created that other people can use would be nice, because otherwise everybody gets free infinite spellcasting assuming you have enough downtime.

Temotei
2009-11-16, 12:16 AM
Also, a maximum on wands created that other people can use would be nice, because otherwise everybody gets free infinite spellcasting assuming you have enough downtime.

I can just imagine..."My character is a human wand walker. She's 75, and she's spent a whole lot of time making wands! :smallbiggrin:"

-Baldur-
2009-11-16, 12:25 AM
Wand Craft Prefect

The Wand Walker may now craft specialised wands at 95% of the base price in gold and Xp. He may now also allow one designated individual to use one, and only one, of the wands he has created. The wand is considered infinite, but can be no higher a spell level than 1/4 of the Wand Walkers current character level, rounded down. The wand is used at the Wand Walkers Caster level.



Note: The individual may now also allow one individual to use ONE, and ONLY, one of the wands he has created.

Just one. And at higher levels there's two people allowed access to ONE wand. And one quarter of the character level of the wand walker, at level 20, would be 5. So you have a 20th level character, of whatever class, throwing around 5th level spells all day long, that the mage had access to forever ago. Two mages could replicate the same effect, just maybe not so infinitely. But then combat never lasts long with a batman wizard does it? I don't see why a class/party member would give up their own awesome level 20 abilities, to use an ability the mage got at level 11?

Would seem....odd?

Milskidasith
2009-11-16, 12:28 AM
Yeah, quoting abilities I'm not talking about will show me that I'm wrong.


Wand Craft Grand Master

The wand walker can now craft wands for no GP cost or XP cost, crafting wands becomes a free action, and no time must be spent crafting them. The Grand Master merely summons them to his hand. Any crafted wand may now be used by two individuals, the charges are infinite and the individuals can now use a wand spell level up to the Wand Walkers level, both individuals must possess a high enough UMD check to use the wand.


You can craft infinite wands, as free actions, that may be used by any two people (just craft three wands and you can supply an entire 7 man party, which is pretty absurd), and a spell level up to the Wand Walkers level. This is your level 10 ability. At level 10 you can make wands of up to level 10 spells. Technically, you can just use them like normal wands instead of plugging them into you, so yay, you're a god 7 levels before wizards are (no epic spellcasting, though.)

-Baldur-
2009-11-16, 12:32 AM
OHHHHH BOOP! That's bad wording on my part. No no no. lol. I see where the drama stems from now. No. I'll reword the class. But the characters using the wands don't get god like spells or level 20 spells or 10 or whichever we said. Nope. Bad wording, BAD. lol.

Also, the Wand Walker can't use the wands like a normal caster. They -have- to be plugged in. I thought I'd written that. Bugger. I really messed the wording on this one hmm?

Milskidasith
2009-11-16, 12:45 AM
That is the point I'm trying to make, yes. The wording implies some very absurd abilities.

-Baldur-
2009-11-16, 12:50 AM
That is the point I'm trying to make, yes. The wording implies some very absurd abilities.

Bahaha and I thought you were just being anal the whole way through. :smallwink:

Temotei
2009-11-16, 12:56 AM
Bahaha and I thought you were just being anal the whole way through. :smallwink:

This makes me happy. Hahaha :smallcool: Sorry Milskidasith...I just have to laugh at that. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT:
Part construct Part human. A bio-organic machine.

A comma belongs between construct and the second part, and the second part shouldn't be capitalized. And...what's a bio-organic machine? I would think either bio-machine or organic machine would work. It sounds kind of awkward with both.

-Baldur-
2009-11-16, 11:44 PM
This makes me happy. Hahaha :smallcool: Sorry Milskidasith...I just have to laugh at that. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT:

A comma belongs between construct and the second part, and the second part shouldn't be capitalized. And...what's a bio-organic machine? I would think either bio-machine or organic machine would work. It sounds kind of awkward with both.

It's like you're a freakin grammar machine dude. lol. You're insane! But ultimately awesome.

GRAMMAR BEAT DOWN FTW!

Temotei
2009-11-17, 01:29 AM
GRAMMAR BEAT DOWN FTW!

Woot woot! :smallbiggrin: Sig.

-Baldur-
2009-11-17, 05:27 PM
Woot woot! :smallbiggrin: Sig.

Woot at signuate glory!!!

And also, Mik. I didn't mean anything rude/bad by what I said my friend. I just couldn't get what on earth you were talking about til you explained it in black and white. Seemed like you were nitpicking! lol

Temotei
2009-11-17, 08:47 PM
Seemed like you were attempting to steal my soul, similarly to how World of Warcraft does it! lol

Fixed. :smallbiggrin:

Just kidding. Hahaha :smallwink: