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Guinea Anubis
2009-11-16, 12:45 PM
So I had an idea for a character, and im not sure how to make it a good one. I was thinking of makeing a Beastmaster Ranger and multiclass in to Druid.

Lets say we make this character level 10, how I can I make this idea in to something thats worth playing and not just a gimped under powered build?

Milskidasith
2009-11-16, 12:53 PM
It's going to be gimped unless you take straight druid.

EDIT: 4e, didn't notice that. It's going to be broken if you don't take straight one or the other.

dsmiles
2009-11-16, 12:57 PM
4th Edition multiclassing is broken. And I don't mean broken as in overpowered.

Guinea Anubis
2009-11-16, 01:06 PM
4th Edition multiclassing is broken. And I don't mean broken as in overpowered.

I feel the same way. I was just hoping somone here that knows more then me may have figured something out that I missed.

Mando Knight
2009-11-16, 01:08 PM
Cap Wisdom and your attack stat. Take a weapon that counts as a totem (the Alfsair spear is the only one that comes to mind and works with druids) as your main weapon.

For this purpose, I would recommend taking the Tratnyr (AV1), as it allows for ranged spearing at a better damage die than the Javelin and better range than the Trident.

Personally, I would go with a 16/14/14/13/10/8 array. Take Elf, Half-Orc, or one of the Shifters for your race, put the 16 in the stat (Str, Dex, Wis) you don't get a boost to, and the 14s in the two you do. Put the 13 in Constitution, and arrange your Int and Cha how you please.

From there, it depends on how you want to go. If you're going to go melee with your beastly buddy, boost your Strength and Wisdom. If you're going ranged, boost Dexterity and Wisdom. Your AC will fall away at higher levels if you go the Strength route, so Two-Weapon Defense and perhaps proficiency in a Parrying Dagger or Urgrosh (rather than Tratnyr) is called for.

Aron Times
2009-11-16, 01:08 PM
I disagree. 4e multiclassing works, unlike its predecessor's which was almost always broken (either underpowered or overpowered).

What level is the character going to be?

Edit: Just reread first post. Level 10. Working on it!

Asbestos
2009-11-16, 01:12 PM
Wow, either talking about the wrong edition or criticizing 4e in some way.


So, BM ranger MC into Druid. It's a good concept, let's break it down though.
Pros: You can shape change into your beast companion, neat!
Potentially little to no MAD depending on your choice of powers.
Cons: Need to drop or stash ranger weapons before shape-changing.
Need implement+ranger weapons to use both power sets effectively.
Can not, by RAW, use any ranger powers while wildshaped. Personally though, as a DM, I'd allow the 'beast' powers that require no weapon use on the part of the ranger to work while wildshaped.

The only way to circumvent the weapon/implement problem in this case is to take a Staff and get the feat that makes it a double weapon. Not optimal for damage, but it can work with this concept. Edit: MKs spear suggestion is good too and better from a damage standpoint.

Guinea Anubis
2009-11-16, 01:14 PM
I disagree. 4e multiclassing works, unlike its predecessor's which was almost always broken (either underpowered or overpowered).

What level is the character going to be?


Level 10. I hope your right because most of the time when I try to come up with a mulitclass characer they feel like they end up under powered.




The only way to circumvent the weapon/implement problem in this case is to take a Staff and get the feat that makes it a double weapon. Not optimal for damage, but it can work with this concept. Edit: MKs spear suggestion is good too and better from a damage standpoint.

IIRC there is a feat that lets you hold on to your weapons when you shift from Primal Power.

Kurald Galain
2009-11-16, 01:19 PM
4th Edition multiclassing is broken. And I don't mean broken as in overpowered.
Actually, it's not. Taking a basic multiclass feat is a solid choice for pretty much every character. If you're a ranger and you take druid MC, you can now shapeshift (ok, your shapeshift doesn't actually do anything, but still). If you are a druid and take ranger MC, you can do hunter's quarry once per combat, which significantly boosts your damage.

To do actual power swapping I suppose you'd be better off with another dex-based class (for ranger) or another wis-based class (for druid).

So what do you actually want to play? You mention two classes, but don't mention what you want out of those.

Asbestos
2009-11-16, 01:23 PM
Level 10. I hope your right because most of the time when I try to come up with a mulitclass characer they feel like they end up under powered.



IIRC there is a feat that lets you hold on to your weapons when you shift from Primal Power.

I'll need to check my copy when I get home then..
A MC character is not likely to outperform a single class character in a specific role, except for the odd extremely synergized insanity, but they have the potential to be more versatile than a single class build. The Druid MC for example can give you access to a 1/encounter blast attack that creates a CA granting zone.. at the cost of one feat, no other ranger has access to this.

Guinea Anubis
2009-11-16, 01:38 PM
So what do you actually want to play? You mention two classes, but don't mention what you want out of those.

The character concept if almost all fluff that would have no real game play effect. I was thinking of somethign along the line of a protector of the woods. He will let his pet do most of the fighting but support him from behind. He wants to stay hidden so his foes think that the animal is casting spells or that nature its self is aginst them. He will also run around wilde shape most of the time to be more in touch with nature. I was also going to have the Wolf or bear be his "brother" and say that he was left in the woods as a baby and got raised with it.

Most of the ranger powers don't fit with the whole turning nature aginst your foes so thats why I was thinking druid. The turning in to a copy of his pet/brother to confuse there enemies is also kind of a fun idea.

Asbestos
2009-11-16, 01:44 PM
Summoner Druid?
Hybrid Druid/BM Ranger?

Ranger/Druid might have a hard time at this...
The RAW inability to have your beast companion attack while you're wildshaped might get in the way if you don't get a houserule in your favor.

Aron Times
2009-11-16, 01:49 PM
3.5 basically spoiled us with CoDzilla. The 3.5 druid was split into the shaman, the druid, and the warden. The shaman has the 3.5 druid's animal companion, the druid has his spells, and the warden has his powerful polymorph abilities.

When you say that you want him to be a ranger, do you mean a character that deals the highest DPR in the game? Or do you want a ranger in the sense of a woodsman at home in the wilderness?

As for him being a druid, do you want to mostly fight while wildshaped? Or do you prefer a caster druid?

It looks like this character might be better represented as a shaman. The shaman gets a spirit companion, and he is a caster type that uses nature magic to fight his foes. A shaman|druid (hybrid) or a shaman/druid (multiclass) looks like it would fit your concept perfectly.

Kurald Galain
2009-11-16, 01:50 PM
The character concept if almost all fluff that would have no real game play effect. I was thinking of somethign along the line of a protector of the woods. He will let his pet do most of the fighting but support him from behind.
The obvious answer is: play a Shaman.

You're a nature-based caster with a focus on buffing your allies. You get a companion (which is officially a "spirit" but it's easy to call it an animal) who will attack for you while you stay in the back. And for the low cost of one feat you can MC into druid and shapeshift. Ta dah!

Guinea Anubis
2009-11-16, 01:54 PM
The obvious answer is: play a Shaman.

You're a nature-based caster with a focus on buffing your allies. You get a companion (which is officially a "spirit" but it's easy to call it an animal) who will attack for you while you stay in the back. And for the low cost of one feat you can MC into druid and shapeshift. Ta dah!

you know thats a good idea, I have no idea why I did not think of that.

Hashmir
2009-11-16, 01:56 PM
The obvious answer is: play a Shaman.

You're a nature-based caster with a focus on buffing your allies. You get a companion (which is officially a "spirit" but it's easy to call it an animal) who will attack for you while you stay in the back. And for the low cost of one feat you can MC into druid and shapeshift. Ta dah!

Yeah, just refluff it so that instead of it being a spirit animal who temporarily exists until destroyed, it's a real animal that you can make disappear when hurt -- something about shaman magic and the close bond you share, etc.

Kurald Galain
2009-11-16, 01:59 PM
Yeah, just refluff it so that instead of it being a spirit animal who temporarily exists until destroyed, it's a real animal that you can make disappear when hurt

I would say it simply runs away (shift 20 until it's out of the battlefield, and stay there until combat is over).

Mark Hall
2009-11-16, 02:07 PM
Actually, it's not. Taking a basic multiclass feat is a solid choice for pretty much every character. If you're a ranger and you take druid MC, you can now shapeshift (ok, your shapeshift doesn't actually do anything, but still). If you are a druid and take ranger MC, you can do hunter's quarry once per combat, which significantly boosts your damage.

Have to agree with Kurald. I don't think I've had a character who is not multiclassed at least once. My bashy cleric? He has Battle Awareness, giving him another skill and the 1/encounter ability to smash people who shift away from him. My Bard? He was multiclassed as a Warlock, a Rogue, a Barbarian, a Paladin, and a Ranger... and I'm forgetting one. My Warlord was a Fighter. My Paladin was a, IIRC, a Warlord. My wizard was a warlock (and that sucked, but he was my first character).

Why? Extra skill, bonus power. There may have been better choices, but it was always a solid one.

Asbestos
2009-11-16, 02:22 PM
I would say it simply runs away (shift 20 until it's out of the battlefield, and stay there until combat is over).

Then it runs back the 100ft when you resummon as a minor action?

Kurald Galain
2009-11-16, 02:39 PM
Then it runs back the 100ft when you resummon as a minor action?
Yes, why not?

Or it could be hiding in a tree, or behind your mantle, or whatever.

Mando Knight
2009-11-16, 03:00 PM
3.5 basically spoiled us with CoDzilla. The 3.5 druid was split into the shaman, the druid, and the warden. The shaman has the 3.5 druid's animal companion, the druid has his spells, and the warden has his powerful polymorph abilities.

Well, the Druid also has some decent polymorph abilities, but this time those come at a cost to his spellcasting ability...

Hzurr
2009-11-16, 03:08 PM
Then it runs back the 100ft when you resummon as a minor action?

... It's very fast. :smallwink:

CarpeGuitarrem
2009-11-16, 03:44 PM
Random tangent on multiclassing: the real problem here is a confusion of concept. When they revamped multiclassing, they truly revamped it. The 4E version of multiclassing is intended to let a character dabble in another class. It does just that. If you want to play a two-classes-at-once character, then play a hybrid.

On topic, I really like the idea of playing a shaman with a flesh-and-blood spirit companion. Go for it!

Dekkah
2009-11-16, 03:58 PM
On topic, I really like the idea of playing a shaman with a flesh-and-blood spirit companion. Go for it!

I agree. I would make it work exactly like the shaman power, but instead of looking ghostly, it would appear like a flesh and blood animal (kinda like the amerindians mystic stories with totemic animals).
It would be a cool fluff to add.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-16, 04:00 PM
but instead of looking ghostly, it would appear like a flesh and blood animal...It would be a cool fluff to add.Why is my first reaction on reading that the thought of a monstrosity with no skin ripping goblins apart?

Asbestos
2009-11-16, 04:14 PM
Why is my first reaction on reading that the thought of a monstrosity with no skin ripping goblins apart?

I think that's the next step in Krenshar evolution.

Mark Hall
2009-11-16, 04:18 PM
Why is my first reaction on reading that the thought of a monstrosity with no skin ripping goblins apart?

I call him (http://goblins.keenspot.com/d/20070201.html)



Fluffles. (http://goblins.keenspot.com/d/20070202.html)

Guinea Anubis
2009-11-16, 07:05 PM
I'll need to check my copy when I get home then..
A MC character is not likely to outperform a single class character in a specific role, except for the odd extremely synergized insanity, but they have the potential to be more versatile than a single class build. The Druid MC for example can give you access to a 1/encounter blast attack that creates a CA granting zone.. at the cost of one feat, no other ranger has access to this.

found it

Primal Power page 141, quick stow.